The truth is we don't know how the average person is going to react. Most people on GAF are 20 something liberals. We don't know how Suzie Soccer Mom will react or whether Joe the hand sanitizer salesman will care. All we can do is freak out and complain, which given Obama's performance is justified. The dude looked like he was expecting to be at a practice session.
2012 First U.S. Presidential Debate |OT| OK Libya... We need a leader, not a reader.
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The truth is we don't know how the average person is going to react. Most people on GAF are 20 something liberals. We don't know how Suzie Soccer Mom will react or whether Joe the hand sanitizer salesman will care. All we can do is freak out and complain, which given Obama's performance is justified. The dude looked like he was expecting to be at a practice session.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Any highlight videos/good summaries up yet?
I think your second point is why the Obama camp looked unprepared. They didn't expect Mitt Romney to literally flip flop his entire campaign on stage.
I was thinking of a quarter of a cruise missile, but this is a much better analogy. At least for younger people.
Let's be honest here. Nobody watches PBS.
Do they know who Mitt Romney is or did they just hear about him for the first time today?
OriginofHysteria
Banned
Like all presidents from the democratic/republican party?
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I do :/ and I listen NPR!
Wrong. Frontline is great.
why did you think that? because he talked so much and loudly?
It's a serious point. Romney cinched the nomination in May. The etch a sketch was supposed to come but never came. He remained cleaved to the hard right through the summer and conventions.
There was no rational reason to believe he'd pick tonight to suddenly flip-flop and agree to all popular ideas and attack only the unpopular ones. Well, but for the fact he's losing and he needed to shake things up
It's usually more subtle than just completely reversing your platform.
Bush II at least outlined his proposals in the debates against Gore. The proposals were stupid, but at least they existed. Romney literally threw out his entire campaign and refused to say anything about his plans. I think that might be unprecedented, but I could be wrong. I agree with the person who said that Romney's lying/flip-flopping threw President Obama off. You could tell he got uncomfortable when he realized that Romney was going to try to shape shift his way through the entire debate.
I'm not necessarily suggesting the President Obama "won" the debate. In a sense, it doesn't matter who "won" because they weren't debating at all. At least not in the formal, academic sense. It just matters which candidate used the forum to best convince a majority of the audience that they are the person to be trusted as President. I think President Obama did a better job of this on the aesthetics regardless of who actually "won".
makingmusic476
Member
The debate went terrible for Obama. Romney brought his a-game, a game nobody thought he even had.
And Obama underperformed. It should've been easy to call Romney out on his bullshit.
He should've said something like:
You can't be serious about deficit reduction if you want to massively cut taxes. Both Reagan and Bush tried that, and deficits ballooned out of control during their administrations.
Further, you can't be serious about tax cuts if you want to get rid of enough unnamed deductions and loopholes to make them revenue neutral. If it's revenue neutral it ain't a tax cut.
Lastly, if it IS a tax cut, and your tax cut doesn't cut $5 trillion from the federal government's revenue, how much does it cut?
And Obama underperformed. It should've been easy to call Romney out on his bullshit.
He should've said something like:
You can't be serious about deficit reduction if you want to massively cut taxes. Both Reagan and Bush tried that, and deficits ballooned out of control during their administrations.
Further, you can't be serious about tax cuts if you want to get rid of enough unnamed deductions and loopholes to make them revenue neutral. If it's revenue neutral it ain't a tax cut.
Lastly, if it IS a tax cut, and your tax cut doesn't cut $5 trillion from the federal government's revenue, how much does it cut?
gutter_trash
Banned
the Etch-a-Sketch has been shaken towards the center .... LOL
Pollux
Member
:jnc
Despite kicking the crap out of Obama, Romney really doesn't have a chance to win the election. But I was saying it the entire time though, Romney would run as a moderate the second he got to the general election and the debates. Hell he'll probably govern like he did in Massachusetts if elected. I hope, because if he's elected and doesn't, then we're all straight up fucked.
gutter_trash
Banned
Undecided = dumb people who don't know how to vote
I doubt nay of them are undecided.
one said they liked obama because he seemed personable...because he looked at the camera
one said they liked romney more today because a complaint about him previously was a lack of specifics, a claim that he put to shame today.
Yes, Romney was overflowing with specifics today.
6 million people watch Downton Abbey a week!
As much as I am enjoying the salt here, I feel compelled to weigh in with some reason.
If a person had to pick a "winner," I guess it's Romney, but it's close. Obama's stuttering and lack of passion were only slightly worse than Mitt's erratic nature and little sense of panic. (Most of) You guys only think Mitt killed Obama because of the insane bias you carry with you, making you completely underestimate Mittens, and overestimate Barry.
Moreover, you guys expect the "left candidate" to proudly proclaim all the ideals you believe (correctly, in this case) the man has and that you share, because you incorrectly think enough of the country feels the same way. Obama is smart not to follow that path; he couldn't get reelected otherwise.
Maybe the tiniest of gains for Mitt nationally by the end of this, no real effect on the electoral, Obama still wins the election fairly handily.
If a person had to pick a "winner," I guess it's Romney, but it's close. Obama's stuttering and lack of passion were only slightly worse than Mitt's erratic nature and little sense of panic. (Most of) You guys only think Mitt killed Obama because of the insane bias you carry with you, making you completely underestimate Mittens, and overestimate Barry.
Moreover, you guys expect the "left candidate" to proudly proclaim all the ideals you believe (correctly, in this case) the man has and that you share, because you incorrectly think enough of the country feels the same way. Obama is smart not to follow that path; he couldn't get reelected otherwise.
Maybe the tiniest of gains for Mitt nationally by the end of this, no real effect on the electoral, Obama still wins the election fairly handily.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
So Veep debate is going to be a disaster, and falls right into Mitt's plan:
Obama "lost" because he wasn't as aggressive and didn't call Mitt out on his bullshit. So what's the obvious over-correction? Come out swinging in the next debate... but that falls on Biden. Can you imagine Biden in full-on unfiltered attack mode?
So Team Obama is left with two options 1) repeat the first debate, and keep Biden on a leash, reinforcing the narrative from tonight or 2) let Biden roam free, risking dozens of potentially gigantic gaffes.
blarargh
Obama "lost" because he wasn't as aggressive and didn't call Mitt out on his bullshit. So what's the obvious over-correction? Come out swinging in the next debate... but that falls on Biden. Can you imagine Biden in full-on unfiltered attack mode?
So Team Obama is left with two options 1) repeat the first debate, and keep Biden on a leash, reinforcing the narrative from tonight or 2) let Biden roam free, risking dozens of potentially gigantic gaffes.
blarargh
Yes.
Pristine_Condition
Member
You can make a similar argument for raising the taxes of top earners to try and fix the deficit.
And I'm not surprised he doesn't want to see that money go away. He makes lots of money off PBS. Over 100 programs and counting.
el retorno
Member
too much logic
Anyone who knows even a little bit about him knows that whatever political position he adopts you can always expect him to flip flop and pander at any opportunity he gets. There was nothing new from Romney today, it was the same old guy I have seen a million times. Obama was the problem, dude seemed nervous from the start, looked like he was at his first debate. This was the complacent President and politician, not the brilliant Harvard Law school graduate. I honestly think he just lost his cool or didn't prep enough. He started getting a hold of himself as the debate progressed or this could have truly been a nightmare.
Smashing Drive
Banned
I like PBS but they're good enough to stand on their own. they just need commercials.
makingmusic476
Member
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Yep, wrong. PBS is more MTV than MTV sometimes by airing Austin City Limits
True. Ronmey had the most to gain. Obama should have called Romney out more than he did to limit that upside, rather than talk about his platform that people already knew about. But supposedly, his campaign didn't want to make Obama seem so bloodthirsty. Maybe he will do it at the town-hall?
Obama should just stick with his gameplan. It's how he beat the Clinton machine, and it's how he's beaten Romney thus far.
flippymittens
Banned
Thank you, I do not necessarily know they are full of excrement but I am not inspired to vote by either of them tonight.
So undecided = uninformed = stupid?
Because I am far more progressive than President Obama. Under President Obama many of Bush's policies have gone rather unchallenged. Under President Obama more Americans are approving of gitmo, drone strikes, war on "terror" etc.
President Obama is detrimental to progressives imo.
Well for one Romney will get challenged by the media regarding his policies... There are a couple other reasons but that is the main one.
I personally consider this debate somewhat of a tie and was pleasantly surprised by Mitt Romney's performance. Hopefully he can give an even better one next time.
Are you insinuating that PBS funding is pure profit
This is what I want to believe, but the outgoing media narrative will have a bigger effect than the debate per se.
I see this as the media getting three free narratives:
1 tonight & tomorrow, Romney wins! Comeback?
2. Friday / Saturday -- Fact checking Romney and assessing the extent of his flip flops and whether those will be a liability
3. Sunday -- First polls show up and they show minor changes. Clearly America is clued into fact checking or big bird or shit!
Not exactly. He is promoting a massive reduction in corporate tax rates. He is also proposing to get rid of deductions, exemptions and credits that are mainly used by lower income and middle class families to lower their tax contribution. These deductions, ironically, were introduced by Republicans over a long period. When he says "small business," he means businesses valued in the low millions.
is he allowed to do that?
lol, do you know who Mitt Romney is?
no because I'm not a biased bitch
GillianSeed79
Member
Nope. Frontline, This Week in Washington, Charlie Rose and the random 1976 episode of Doctor Who disagree. PBS News Hour is on watch now, though. They had great debate analysis tonight, but only because Jim was in Colorado.
phosphor112
Banned
He was too busy stuttering. Seriously, his performance tonight was sub-par.
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