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[Milchjon]

They call it something different. They just chose a terrible name - Windows RT.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Call it something descriptive. Windows 8 Light or Surface S or whatever. Something that gives people a clue that it's gimped.

I'm sure there will be masses of people who will only realize this when they're already home and wonder why their favorite program won't run. This will be the worst part of the backlash that Windows 8 (Tablets) will produce, I'm sure.

Surface is hot. WP and the devices are great. Win 8 will be okay, I'm sure. But this is the worst mistake in this recent wave of big MS updates, IMO.

 

[-GOUKI-]

From the OP. The one you didn't read.

Windows RT = ARM (Windows Store Apps + Limited Desktop Apps (Desktop Apps limited to Windows Utilities (Explorer, Paint etc...), Office Home and Student 2013 (Excel, Word, Powerpoint, OneNote) (Office is included, is a Desktop App) and Internet Explorer 10. (Windows RT will only run Windows Store Apps outside of those few Desktop Apps) (only sold to OEMs)

Windows 8 = x86/x64 (Windows Store Apps + Desktop Apps) (will run all of your existing Desktop Apps plus the new Windows Store Apps) (two versions at Retail, Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro. $40 upgrade price till the end of January)

Windows 8 is not Windows RT and vice versa.

The first Surface has an ARM CPU and is similar to the iPad or other Android tablets.
The second Surface, the Surface Pro, is basically an Ultrabook without the keyboard. Full PC hardware and compatibility. It's also going to be more expensive and won't be released until next year.

Seriously, read the OP. That's why Windu wrote it.

I read the OP. I didn't understand it

 

[Klocker]

Nah, they'll have a launch event on the 25th and will sell it a few days after that.

could have sworn I read it will be available next day (US)

I'm all in in this... assuming $249-$279 I hope

 

[Complex Shadow]

could have sworn I read it will be available next day (US)

I'm all in in this... assuming $249-$279 I hope

Doubt it. 400 at the least.

 

[Klocker]

Doubt it. 400 at the least.

yea...


still may bite

 

[tino]

No you can't, because they're made for different hardware (ARM processors).

It wouldn't be a problem if MS was more open about all it. Call it something different. Windows Light or whatever.

Should have used a word that describe the purpose of the new OS. "Windows ARM" would have made perfect sense to the nerds but not to the regular people. Since the entire point of the ARM port is to be power efficient for mobile computing, it should have be called "Windows Mobile" for marketing clarity.

Spoiler

hur hur

 

[-GOUKI-]

Doubt it. 400 at the least.

Any hope for the $199 price point lol?

 

[sykoex]

You can't install existing desktop applications that were compiled for the x86 / AMD64 instruction sets (nearly every windows application you are familiar with today).

Okay, but wouldn't apps like Steam, iTunes, and other apps made by still active developers put out updates for this new version?

 

[Jayayess1190]

Okay, but wouldn't apps like Steam, iTunes, etc put out updates for this new version?

Not sure about iTunes unless non x86 tablets get really popular and people demand it.

 

[dLMN8R]

Windows RT tablets like the Surface releasing on October 26th are fully intended to be used exclusively for apps from the Windows Store, and the built-in version of Office. You cannot install anything extra to the Desktop, you can't use Steam, iTunes, or anything else.

It's the new Metro experience and new Metro apps, with the bare-bones Desktop there only to be used for Office and advanced configuration stuff through Control Panel. That's basically it.

There is no way for developers to compile and release traditional desktop applications for ARM and Windows RT tablets. Since the entire purpose of developing Windows for ARM was to take advantage of its power savings, enabling arbitrary applications to be compiled for ARM would undermine all that advantage. It would also undermine the goal to make Windows RT tablets completely secure in a brain-dead manner where customers can't screw up their devices no matter how hard they try and no matter how many apps they download.

Even Office had to go through massive changes under the hood to get it to perform well on ARM, and for it to also play nicely with Connected Standby and other such features. It wasn't anything close to a straight re-compile.



If you want to use Steam, iTunes, and everything else you currently have, and two decades of backwards compatibility, you need to get an Intel/AMD-based tablet/laptop/desktop. There will be some available at launch, and much better ones next year with the Surface Pro, and whatever ends up coming out on Intel's new low-power architectures coming out in the next couple years.

 

[mhayze]

Any hope for the $199 price point lol?

Pretty close to zero. I'm expecting the lowest price point to $449, and i won't be surprised if it's a little higher.

 

[border]

It won't be anywhere near $200 unless it's with some sort of subsidized subscription service on a 2-year contract.

I can't think of any service they have that would really make for an appealing bundle, though.

 

[thirty]

http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-surface-with-windows-rt-to-cost-below-350/

pretty much all but confirms a sub $300 price.

 

[itsgreen]

Insta buy if 350$

 

[Izick]

Oh, under 350$? My only hesitation is that the Pro would be super-low priced as well. RT won't have flash, right?

 

[brotkasten]

Oh, under 350$? My only hesitation is that the Pro would be super-low priced as well. RT won't have flash, right?

IE 10 has flash for selected websites.

 

[Klocker]

http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-surface-with-windows-rt-to-cost-below-350/

pretty much all but confirms a sub $300 price.

so $299-$329

yea that works.. but $199 would FLY!

 

[Izick]

IE 10 had flash for selected websites.

Ah, this tears me up. I would instant buy if I know I could watch videos on like Blip and Springboard easily, but if not, then I might as well just stick with my laptop, as it can run Youtube vids fine.

 

[dejay]

I was waiting for the pro but at that price I'd potentially get both.

 

[thirty]

so $299-$329

yea that works.. but $199 would FLY!

unless they are pricing those "...for dummies" books at a high price, $299 is more likely.

 

[Flash]

$299 for RT version sounds about right. They need to price this thing competitively and anything above 350 will make it tough sell over iPad/Nexus7.

 

[Windu]

Ah, this tears me up. I would instant buy if I know I could watch videos on like Blip and Springboard easily, but if not, then I might as well just stick with my laptop, as it can run Youtube vids fine.

Im too lazy to check put im sure those websites work.

 

[maeh2k]

Not convinced that dummies.com would know the retail price. They might just get a Surface from MS for free and may be guessing the price for the contest.

 

[Raistlin]

$299 for RT version sounds about right. They need to price this thing competitively and anything above 350 will make it tough sell over iPad/Nexus7.

smh

 

[SteveWinwood]

Will buy for $5.

But for reals, I'd buy at the right price. Why won't you tell me

 

[Izick]

Im too lazy to check put im sure those websites work.

Pwease?

 

[thirty]

Not convinced that dummies.com would know the retail price. They might just get a Surface from MS for free.

OMG, the Surface is gonna be FREE!!!

 

[enzo_gt]

http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-surface-with-windows-rt-to-cost-below-350/

pretty much all but confirms a sub $300 price.

No way. That'd be insane. They'd destroy the entire tablet market in one swing, nobody would be even close to being able to compete. Has to be more than that.

 

[Izick]

No way. That'd be insane. They'd destroy the entire tablet market in one swing, nobody would be even close to being able to compete. Has to be more than that.

Nexus 7 will be the quality low end. Surface RT is quality low-mid. iPad and Surface Pro quality high end. (In terms of prices.)

 

[tino]

No way. That'd be insane. They'd destroy the entire tablet market in one swing, nobody would be even close to being able to compete. Has to be more than that.

Like the Amazon 9" $299 tablet?

 

[Izick]

Like the Amazon 9" $299 tablet?

People can buy what they want, but only fools who had no idea what is out there would get a Fire over a Nexus 7, or now possibly a Surface RT. It's a complete dogshit product in comparison to the former, and most likely the latter as well.

 

[brotkasten]

Pwease?

I switched back to IE10 as my default browser, so I could use the Metro version.

JUST FOR YOU.

Blip works.

 

[Izick]

I switched back to IE10 as my default browser, so I could use the Metro version.

JUST FOR YOU.

Blip works.

Oh, that's how you check? I have Windows 8 installed on my laptop right now! I appreciate you checking though! I'm going to check spoonyexperiment.com now to see if Springboard works.

 

[tino]

People can buy what they want, but only fools who had no idea what is out there would get a Fire over a Nexus 7, or now possibly a Surface RT. It's a complete dogshit product in comparison to the former, and most likely the latter as well.

If a RT tablet is 299, an Atom tablet is 399, the battery lives are both 10hr, which one would you buy?

 

[brotkasten]

Oh, that's how you check? I have Windows 8 installed on my laptop right now! I appreciate you checking though! I'm going to check spoonyexperiment.com now to see if Springboard works.

Doesn't work.

 

[Izick]

If a RT tablet is 299, an Atom tablet is 399, the battery lives are both 10hr, which one would you buy?

Could you link to the Atom tablet? I'd have to see.

Doesn't work.

Ah, thanks for the help! Also, anyone who says IE 10 is just as good as Chrome is a fucking liar. It's still slow as molasses and the fonts look absolutely awful.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-surface-with-windows-rt-to-cost-below-350/

pretty much all but confirms a sub $300 price.

The hell it does. That's just a made up number.

 

[Klocker]

Also, anyone who says IE 10 is just as good as Chrome is a fucking liar. It's still slow as molasses and the fonts look absolutely awful.

yeh! opinions

Spoiler

no idea have not used IE10

 

[Izick]

yeh! opinions

Spoiler

no idea have not used IE10

It's not an opinion. It runs noticeably slower, and the fonts have more jaggies than a PS2 game.

 

[dLMN8R]

I don't know, I was on a plane for 4 hours yesterday using Windows 8 via touch on my Lenovo x220 convertible laptop. Chrome is decent and is normally my default browser, but touch support in IE10 is vastly smoother and more reliable. It loaded pages just as fast on the slow plane connection, and it renders stuff extremely well, zooms smoother than any other browser on any platform that I've ever seen.

Can you take a screenshot of the jaggies you're noticing? I've never seen anything that resembles that with IE10.

 

[tino]

Could you link to the Atom tablet? I'd have to see.

I have a hunch you would have to wait for Black Friday deal for the $400 Atom tablet.

 

[Izick]

I have a hunch you would have to wait for Black Friday deal for the $400 Atom tablet.

I mean, did you have one particularly in mind?

 

[tino]

I mean, did you have one particularly in mind?

Acer W510. Who else will go for the bottom end.

 

[brotkasten]

The W510 would be a fine tablet, if the dock wasn't so hideous.

It's not an opinion. It runs noticeably slower, and the fonts have more jaggies than a PS2 game.

I just loaded The Verge, one of the code heavier sites I visit, in IE10 Metro and Chrome on the desktop. Both loaded pretty much at the same time.

 

[Izick]

I just loaded The Verge, one of the code heavier sites I visit, in IE10 Metro and Chrome on the desktop. Both loaded pretty much at the same time.

I was running IE 10 regular, not Metro just to clarify. Maybe it was the site I was on or something, but even Google loaded slow.

EDIT: Do these atom tablets run W8, or W8 RT?

 

[enzo_gt]

Nexus 7 will be the quality low end. Surface RT is quality low-mid. iPad and Surface Pro quality high end. (In terms of prices.)

I just feel like Surface, even the RT version is much more capable and fully featured than any tablet on the market, particularly because it runs a less gimped OS compared to every other tablet. It really is a mini-computer with the ability to choose between tablet and laptop sensibilities. When tablets began buzzing, this is what I thought they were going to be like and unfortunately they all decided to go into the iPad's direction. Not to take away from the iPad's accomplishments, it does what it does well, but as a replacement for laptops? No way. The Surface has that potential. I honestly though it was going to be priced like an ultrabook.

 

[Windu]

I was running IE 10 regular, not Metro just to clarify. Maybe it was the site I was on or something, but even Google loaded slow.

EDIT: Do these atom tablets run W8, or W8 RT?

Windows 8. RT is for ARM based machines.

 

[maeh2k]

I was running IE 10 regular, not Metro just to clarify. Maybe it was the site I was on or something, but even Google loaded slow.

EDIT: Do these atom tablets run W8, or W8 RT?

Full Windows 8 with backwards compatibility to all Windows desktop apps. But they won't come with Office 2013 unlike the RT tablets.

 

[Izick]

I just feel like Surface, even the RT version is much more capable and fully featured than any tablet on the market, particularly because it runs a less gimped OS compared to every other tablet. It really is a mini-computer with the ability to choose between tablet and laptop sensibilities. When tablets began buzzing, this is what I thought they were going to be like and unfortunately they all decided to go into the iPad's direction. Not to take away from the iPad's accomplishments, it does what it does well, but as a replacement for laptops? No way. The Surface has that potential. I honestly though it was going to be priced like an ultrabook.

No, I get what you mean, and I totally agree.

Windows 8. RT is for ARM based machines.

Full Windows 8 with backwards compatibility to all Windows desktop apps. But they won't come with Office 2013 unlike the RT tablets.

Ooh, that makes it more interesting, but the Surface seems like it would serve all of my needs for the most part anyway. Not sure though; need to see the boundaries of RT compared to W8.

 

[thirty]

why is a sub $300 price so hard to believe for some? Microsoft has set up kiosks in malls across the country to specifically sell the surface. you think they'd do that if it was priced above $400? no one would care.