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[Orayn]

You know who the GOP is appealing to? The people who actually respect life.

If the GOP respects life as you claim, they have a really funny way of showing it, seeing how they don't seem to give a fig about the well being of humans that aren't in a womb.

Who's going to benefit from this? How about the child that didn't get murdered? And lets think about that little child who must hear from his mom (or adopted parents) that he/she is the result of the rape, I'm pretty sure he/she would be more thankful that he/she isn't dead.

I, uh... I'm going to let someone else field this one.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

There's more to life than just living. Growing up without a father is one terrible thing, growing up without a father that raped your mother that lead to your birth is another even more terrible thing.

A father doesn't have to be defined by a bloodline. The mother could find someone, or the child could be adopted.

I have a good friend who is the result of a rape and was then put up for adoption. He could care less, he's glad he has real parents that care for him and is living a pretty good life right now.

 

[Kazerei]

Great post, especially how you cap it all off by nullifying your credibility!

You know who the GOP is appealing to? The people who actually respect life. Who's going to benefit from this? How about the child that didn't get murdered? And lets think about that little child who must hear from his mom (or adopted parents) that he/she is the result of the rape, I'm pretty sure he/she would be more thankful that he/she isn't dead.

I know it's cliche but hey, I have to say it: I find it funny that all the people in favor of abortion have already been born.

Spoiler

I realize I'm probably the only one who's going to read this thread that has this view, but that's fine. Nothing wrong with that, kind of fun. I will now leave to let y'all continue preaching to your own choir

It doesn't work that way

A father doesn't have to be defined by a bloodline. The mother could find someone, or the child could be adopted.

I have a good friend who is the result of a rape and was then put up for adoption. He could care less, he's glad he has real parents that care for him and is living a pretty good life right now.

Glad it worked out for him, but you realize there are a lot of cases where it's not so happy.

 

[Dram]

There's more to life than just living. Growing up without a father is one terrible thing, growing up without a father that raped your mother that lead to your birth is another even more terrible thing.

If you see abortion as taking a life away, that's on you. Call the woman a murderer or what have you, it should be her damn decision if she wants to bring more life to this planet.

Then things like this could happen.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/19628763/2012/09/24/rapist-wants-visitation-rights-teen-mom-fighting-back

Rapist wants visitation rights; teen mom fighting back

An admitted Massachusetts rapist is seeking visitation rights to the child he fathered after raping his underage victim, setting the stage for a precedent-setting legal fight in the Bay State.

The victim and her family are fighting back, saying the rapist is only showing interest in the family now that the child support bill is coming due.

"She got raped at 14. She decided to keep her baby. And now she has to hand her baby over for a visit with her rapist?" the victim's mother said.

The teen mother, who still suffers from severe anxiety and depression, says she's terrified at the thought of having to face the man who raped and impregnated her to arrange for visitation rights.

"He threatened me. He told me that he could make my life upside down, and I wouldn't have anybody and he would pin it all on me. So I was scared," she told FOX Undercover reporter Mike Beaudet.

It happened when she was in eighth grade, just 14-years-old. He was a 20-year-old man she knew from her church, the boyfriend of her friend's older sister.

When her mother found out, they went to the police to press charges. But she decided to keep the baby.

"Being Christian, the way I looked at it, the way I thought of it, this is a baby, an innocent person that didn't do anything wrong. Like, why should I take away that life?" she said.

The man was charged with four counts of statutory rape of a child in 2009. Last year, he pleaded guilty to all the charges in Norfolk Superior Court. FOX Undercover isn't identifying the victim or the rapist to help protect her identity.

The Norfolk prosecutor asked for a three to five year prison sentence. But Superior Court Judge Thomas McGuire sentenced him to 16 years of probation with the condition he acknowledges he's the father of the baby and abide by the probate and family court.

The probate court ordered him to pay child support, opening the door for him to request visitation rights with the child.

The attorney for the man who admitted raping the teenager would not comment on his client's fight for visitation rights. But he did claim the relationship was consensual, even though he acknowledged it was inappropriate, given the victim was only 14 and his client was 20.

The family has hired attorney Wendy Murphy.

Murphy has filed a motion with the court, asking the judge to amend the sentencing conditions and order the man to pay restitution instead of child support, which would force him to support the child he fathered but not give him visitation and other parental rights.

Murphy's motion also asks that the man be ordered to stay away from the mother and the child.

"All this family wants is to cut the cord. Get the rapist out of their lives. And if the judge wants to help them financially that's great. But let's call it restitution, not child support," Murphy said.

Sixteen other states have already tackled this issue, according to a 2010 study in the Georgetown Law Journal, by enacting statutes to protect a raped woman who chooses to raise her child.

Nine of those states allow or require the termination of the rapist's parental rights, while the other seven allow or require stripping custody or visitation privileges.

Massachusetts is one of 34 states that has not addressed the issue.

 

[MormaPope]

A father doesn't have to be defined by a bloodline. The mother could find someone, or the child could be adopted.

I have a good friend who is the result of a rape and was then put up for adoption. He could care less, he's glad he has real parents that care for him and is living a pretty good life right now.

Good for him. Doesn't change the fact that the woman should have the choice of getting an abortion if she wants to, rape or otherwise in my opinion.

 

[DanteFox]

so what's the problem? It's pretty clear from the quote that he was connecting the statement to a previous thought.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

Speaking of nullifying your credibility...

Are you trying to indicate that this thread isn't a giant group of people who all share the same views patting eachother on the back while mocking the other group without anyone to defend them (aside myself).

It's as bad as watching a Fox News panel (or a CNN one for that matter).

 

[monchi-kun]

I have a good friend who is the result of a rape and was then put up for adoption. He could care less, he's glad he has real parents that care for him and is living a pretty good life right now.

Which is why it is IMPERATIVE that it is done on a case-by-case basis. It is a personal choice that nobody but the victim should have a say in. Legislating what a woman can or cannot do with her body is the real issue here.

 

[pigeon]

Who's going to benefit from this? How about the child that didn't get murdered? And lets think about that little child who must hear from his mom (or adopted parents) that he/she is the result of the rape, I'm pretty sure he/she would be more thankful that he/she isn't dead.

Shouldn't our goal be to maximize happy families and healthy relationships?

I know it's cliche but hey, I have to say it: I find it funny that all the people in favor of abortion have already been born.]

...this is a cliche now?

 

[MormaPope]

Are you trying to indicate that this thread isn't a giant group of people who all share the same views patting eachother on the back while mocking the other group without anyone to defend them (aside myself).

It's as bad as watching a Fox News panel (or a CNN one for that matter).

There's no mocking going on, you said your piece and others said there's. If you feel like you're getting attacked, provide a better argument.

 

[Orayn]

I like how staring slack-jawed at the sorts of things the GOP say and mean is back-patting. Apparently being aghast is just the same thing as smug?

Shouldn't our goal be to maximize happy families and healthy relationships?

No, we have to maximize births! What happens after that is someone else's problem.

 

[Fantastical]

Are you trying to indicate that this thread isn't a giant group of people who all share the same views patting eachother on the back while mocking the other group without anyone to defend them (aside myself).

It's as bad as watching a Fox News panel (or a CNN one for that matter).

I'm more implying that your "I know it's cliche but hey, I have to say it: I find it funny that all the people in favor of abortion have already been born" comment was stupid.

Keep fighting the good fight against the evil GAF though.

 

[commedieu]

Great post, especially how you cap it all off by nullifying your credibility!

You know who the GOP is appealing to? The people who actually respect life. Who's going to benefit from this? How about the child that didn't get murdered? And lets think about that little child who must hear from his mom (or adopted parents) that he/she is the result of the rape, I'm pretty sure he/she would be more thankful that he/she isn't dead.

I know it's cliche but hey, I have to say it: I find it funny that all the people in favor of abortion have already been born.

Spoiler

I realize I'm probably the only one who's going to read this thread that has this view, but that's fine. Nothing wrong with that, kind of fun. I will now leave to let y'all continue preaching to your own choir

They are appealing to people that want unwanted children to be raised by parents that didn't want them. Hopefully the 15 year old turns out to be a great dad if he sticks around though. In general, people that are blind to the reality of the world, and only think about their own situations in life. People that want to restrict a womans body and rights. Considering all pregnancies don't go full term, its hardly an issue of killing. If it was killing, anti-abortionists would be appalled by wars their leader puts them into, killing thousands of children, after lying about why we were there in the first place. It is not a genuine position at all.

If it was, there would be the idea of a fund to support these 300k+ unwanted children for 18 years with free healthcare, and money for education, and food. However, we all know that things like food and shelter aren't entitlements, as per Republicans.

You guys try to pretend you care so much about what is going on in a womans body, yet aren't making beyond herculean efforts to reform education, or curb teen and child homelessness, in america. The church/GOP/Conservatives aren't taking care of millions of starving kids in this country, let alone any other one. If its such a significant issue, life is life. Why do we have so many lifes out in the street, so precious. All of the money going into Anti-Abortion nonsense could actually help out children that need help today. It doesn't because its just about removing womens rights, and not the life.

Conservatives are generally short sighted when it comes to many things, abortion is going to happen in much more dangerous ways if you restrict it. Which leads to killing both the life of the mother, and the life of the child. Laws don't prevent people from necessity.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

If the GOP respects life as you claim, they have a really funny way of showing it, seeing how they don't seem to give a fig about the well being of humans that aren't in a womb.

In the same respect if the liberals respect life they have a really funny way of showing it by allowing a women to murder because she doesn't want to go through a pregnancy. And don't make an excuse that it's also better for the child too, there are plenty of ways we can make sure that child gets a good life that's better than being dead.

Now I know what you'll say, "but it's not fair for the woman." And you're right, it's not. It's not fair that they have to go through pregnancy while the guy could just walk away. But it's also not fair that an innocent child gets no say in whether or not he can live to see the light of day. And of course I'm sure you'll come back and say a fetus is not a living human, but that's just complete hypocritical BS. The liberals are the same ones who are supposed to be big on science and there's science will clearly tell you that a fetus is living. And maybe you'll come back and say that the fetus isn't a human being yet or doesn't have a soul yet, but scientifically genetically the fetus is a human being and I thought the majority of GAF was anti-religion and don't believe in souls anyways.

Rambling on. Well outstayed how long I intended to be here but it's fun.

 

[Deified Data]

Is anyone else here genuinely surprised that the GOP is willing to go so far as to make the concession that abortion should be legal to save a woman's life? I really am.

Are there any national candidates who make no concessions whatsoever?

 

[Team Filler]

Are you trying to indicate that this thread isn't a giant group of people who all share the same views patting eachother on the back while mocking the other group without anyone to defend them (aside myself).

It's as bad as watching a Fox News panel (or a CNN one for that matter).

I think you'd be hard pressed to find many rape apologists on many message boards, GAF included.

 

[stupei]

Which is why it is IMPERATIVE that it is done on a case-by-case basis. It is a personal choice that nobody but the victim should have a say in. Legislating what a woman can or cannot do with her body is the real issue here.

The federal government has no right to legislate the state, but the state certainly has a right to legislate my womb.

No, we have to maximize births! What happens after that is someone else's problem.

Whoever raises this child had better not ask for any government handouts, or be engaged in a homosexual relationship.

 

[Escape Goat]

Is anyone else here genuinely surprised that the GOP is willing to go so far as to make the concession that abortion should be legal to save a woman's life? I really am.

Are there any national candidates who make no concessions whatsoever?

Doubtful. The mother in this hypothetical question is a voter that wants to continue living.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

Shouldn't our goal be to maximize happy families and healthy relationships?

If our goal is to maximize happy families and healthy relationships then we should just kill all the people in poverty. We can make our country full of 100% happy families and relationships very easily.

 

[monchi-kun]

Rambling on. Well outstayed how long I intended to be here but it's fun.

you'll be back....only you can save the babies! (and i was fucking right! look at that reply just above mine!)


Keep it, put it up for adoption, or abort it....LET THE WOMAN CHOOSE!

 

[Mumei]

This reminds me of this topic.

 

[stupei]

You know, what sickens me is the GAFers who openly talk about masturbation. They know that sperm cells are alive, right? Disgusting.

Nobody wants to know about the second holocaust you have in your sheets, guys.

 

[LordCanti]

Why is it that whenever someone says that they've said their piece and that they're going to threadbailout.gif, they never actually bail out of the thread?

You know, what sickens me is the GAFers who openly talk about masturbation. They know that sperm cells are alive, right? Disgusting.

Nobody wants to know about the second holocaust you have in your sheets, guys.

I'm the masturbatory version of Stalin.

 

[Team Filler]

If our goal is to maximize happy families and healthy relationships then we should just kill all the people in poverty. We can make our country full of 100% happy families and relationships very easily.

Awesome, here we go! Awwwwwwww yeaaaaaahhhh.

Why is it that whenever someone says that they've said their piece and that they're going to threadbailout.gif, they never actually bail out of the thread?

Because they lack conviction, despite their protestations.

 

[Escape Goat]

You know, what sickens me is the GAFers who openly talk about masturbation. They know that sperm cells are alive, right? Disgusting.

Nobody wants to know about the second holocaust you have in your sheets, guys.

isn't that in the Bible? Something about spilling his seed onto the ground. They left that out of my Precious Moments bible.

 

[monchi-kun]

Awesome, here we go! Awwwwwwww yeaaaaaahhhh.

starting to think we're being trolled by seventy x samuray...a fuck i can't remember the username. it needs a few letters aborted to make it easier to memorize.

 

[MormaPope]

In the same respect if the liberals respect life they have a really funny way of showing it by allowing a women to murder because she doesn't want to go through a pregnancy. And don't make an excuse that it's also better for the child too, there are plenty of ways we can make sure that child gets a good life that's better than being dead.

Now I know what you'll say, "but it's not fair for the woman." And you're right, it's not. It's not fair that they have to go through pregnancy while the guy could just walk away. But it's also not fair that an innocent child gets no say in whether or not he can live to see the light of day. And of course I'm sure you'll come back and say a fetus is not a living human, but that's just complete hypocritical BS. The liberals are the same ones who are supposed to be big on science and there's science will clearly tell you that a fetus is living. And maybe you'll come back and say that the fetus isn't a human being yet or doesn't have a soul yet, but scientifically genetically the fetus is a human being and I thought the majority of GAF was anti-religion and don't believe in souls anyways.

Rambling on. Well outstayed how long I intended to be here but it's fun.

You're caring about a live that isn't yours though, you don't own that life, the mother does. If you think all women who get an abortion skip and parade out of the clinic you're naive. Your philosophy and ideals can't be forced on people, you feel that life the mother is aborting is more sacred to you than her? Tough luck.

Not to mention some mothers will die from complications from birth, or that fact that a birth costs over $10,000 just for the doctor service. Or how some women end up having their vagina stretched to their knees.

 

[Deified Data]

Doubtful. The mother in this hypothetical question is a voter that wants to continue living.

Women vote against their own interests all the time. I think a Republican could conceivably run on a "you're an expendable meat-vessel for your pseudo-child" platform and still get a decent amount of female support.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find many rape apologists on many message boards, GAF included.

This whole name calling nonsense needs to stop. I can do the same thing: I'm surprised there's so many people who support killing babies.

Being pro-life doesn't make you a rape apologist, while being pro-choice doesn't mean you support killing babies.

 

[Kazerei]

In the same respect if the liberals respect life they have a really funny way of showing it by allowing a women to murder because she doesn't want to go through a pregnancy. And don't make an excuse that it's also better for the child too, there are plenty of ways we can make sure that child gets a good life that's better than being dead.

Adoption agencies have more than enough to deal with. Social services are lacking too.

The point here is that we're valueing the women's life over an unborn person's life.

Earlier you assumed the unborn child would be happy to be alive, but it really doesn't work that way. The fact is, the woman knows how she feels about her pregnancy, and so it should be her right to choose.

And of course I'm sure you'll come back and say a fetus is not a living human, but that's just complete hypocritical BS. The liberals are the same ones who are supposed to be big on science and there's science will clearly tell you that a fetus is living. And maybe you'll come back and say that the fetus isn't a human being yet or doesn't have a soul yet, but scientifically genetically the fetus is a human being and I thought the majority of GAF was anti-religion and don't believe in souls anyways.

Science will tell you that life does not begin at conception. So at best, you could argue there should be term limits. But even then, there's no agreed upon threshold for life. We do know that life definitely exists at birth.

If our goal is to maximize happy families and healthy relationships then we should just kill all the people in poverty. We can make our country full of 100% happy families and relationships very easily.

Or maybe we could just prevent people from being born to parents who are unprepared to have a child. You're being purposely obtuse with that analogy.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Awesome, here we go! Awwwwwwww yeaaaaaahhhh.

This discussion is getting good now

 

[monchi-kun]

you taking a mulligan for your thread exit?

 

[LordCanti]

You're caring about a live that isn't yours though, you don't own that life, the mother does. If you think all women who get an abortion skip and parade out of the clinic you're naive. Your philosophy and ideals can't be forced on people, you feel that life the mother is aborting is more sacred to you than her? Tough luck.

Not to mention some mothers will die from complications from birth, or that fact that a birth costs over $10,000 just for the doctor service.

Get raped and then go bankrupt from the medical bills associated with a (forced) pregnancy. It's the American dream.

 

[stupei]

isn't that in the Bible? Something about spilling his seed onto the ground. They left that out of my Precious Moments bible.

Probably made by commies. Baby hating commies.

You're caring about a live that isn't yours though, you don't own that life, the mother does. If you think all women who get an abortion skip and parade out of the clinic you're naive. Your philosophy and ideals can't be forced on people, you feel that life the mother is aborting is more sacred to you than her? Tough luck.

Not to mention some mothers will die from complications from birth, or that fact that a birth costs over $10,000 just for the doctor service. Or how some women end up having their vagina stretched to their knees.

But we're already killing off the poor people, so that's okay.

 

[Orayn]

you taking a mulligan for your thread exit?

Taking a Paris mulligan, it would seem.

 

[MormaPope]

This whole name calling nonsense needs to stop. I can do the same thing: I'm surprised there's so many people who support killing babies.

Being pro-life doesn't make you a rape apologist, while being pro-choice doesn't mean you support killing babies.

That's what you made it out to be many times though.

 

[monchi-kun]

don't go "i'm balin' out" and stick around...

#youredoingitwrong

 

[Necromanti]

Great post, especially how you cap it all off by nullifying your credibility!

You know who the GOP is appealing to? The people who actually respect life. Who's going to benefit from this? How about the child that didn't get murdered? And lets think about that little child who must hear from his mom (or adopted parents) that he/she is the result of the rape, I'm pretty sure he/she would be more thankful that he/she isn't dead.

So what you're saying is that those who don't vote Republican don't respect life? Besides, the GOP being against abortion is a very small part of why people question the things these representatives are saying. Considering some of the other things they said, it wouldn't be much better if they supported the legislation of abortion. The consistent use of questionable logic and ignorance that is not founded in rational beliefs is what bothers people. What is outlines is not a respectful, intelligently thought-out argument against abortion, because you can be against abortion without sounding ignorant.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Not to mention some mothers will die from complications from birth, or that fact that a birth costs over $10,000 just for the doctor service. Or how some women end up having their vagina stretched to their knees.

And then you have to add the cost of caring for the child. Things like diapers and daycare aren't cheap. And the mom will most likely need psychological help since she went through a traumatic event.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

You're caring about a live that isn't yours though, you don't own that life, the mother does. If you think all women who get an abortion skip and parade out of the clinic you're naive. Your philosophy and ideals can't be forced on people, you feel that life the mother is aborting is more sacred to you than her? Tough luck.

Not to mention some mothers will die from complications from birth, or that fact that a birth costs over $10,000 just for the doctor service. Or how some women end up having their vagina stretched to their knees.

That is where we fundamentally disagree. Nobody owns another person's life. Last I checked that was called slavery. The mother doesn't own the life and doesn't have to right to decide if the child lives or dies. As for the second part, I agree if going through with the birth would mean risking the mothers life then I have no problem with it. As for the money part, are you seriously going to put a price of life?


Thank you everyone who has been respectful and provided good counter arguments! And to those who joke at me, keep on keeping on.

 

[Drakeon]

Stephen Colbert has been on fire. It's unfortunate he probably won't pull it out again unless he addresses it on Monday.

 

[stupei]

To be clear: a fetus is alive, but not capable of conscious thought or of sustaining any medical definition of "life" outside of the womb. In most respects, a fetus is only as alive as a sperm or egg cell.

So I propose a new law to ban menstruation. I'm sure most of GAF will be with me on this one. Those crazy ladies once a month, right guys?

 

[commedieu]

This whole name calling nonsense needs to stop. I can do the same thing: I'm surprised there's so many people who support killing babies.

Being pro-life doesn't make you a rape apologist, while being pro-choice doesn't mean you support killing babies.

At the base of supporting killing, the entire nation does it via military. Its not some precious commodity in this life. Remember, if you commit a crime, you can be killed for doing so. Its legal killing. That is the precedent we have to deal with, again, conservatives don't mesh with reality. We aren't living in a country based around moral code, and happiness.

You're just removing a womans choice to kill her unborn child, for your own reasons. As the life excuse does not stack up, considering the data on Abortion vs police shootings/death row/and military killings.

Life is life, right?

 

[Kazerei]

That is where we fundamentally disagree. Nobody owns another person's life. Last I checked that was called slavery. The mother doesn't own the life and doesn't have to right to decide if the child lives or dies. As for the second part, I agree if going through with the birth would mean risking the mothers life then I have no problem with it. As for the money part, are you seriously going to put a price of life?


Thank you everyone who has been respectful and provided good counter arguments! And to those who joke at me, keep on keeping on.

A fetus is a clump of cells in her body. When do you ascribe it "life"? It sure as hell isn't at conception.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

If our goal is to maximize happy families and healthy relationships then we should just kill all the people in poverty. We can make our country full of 100% happy families and relationships very easily.

why don't we just murder all the rich happy people so everyone else (the majority btw) don't have to deal with the constant moralizing and condescension

 

[Orayn]

That is where we fundamentally disagree. Nobody owns another person's life. Last I checked that was called slavery. The mother doesn't own the life and doesn't have to right to decide if the child lives or dies. As for the second part, I agree if going through with the birth would mean risking the mothers life then I have no problem with it. As for the money part, are you seriously going to put a price of life?

The life-respecting party you love have officially declared the price of a human life to be nil as an implication of their stance on welfare, medicare, and everything that goes into caring for extant life.

Oh, and said party also does jack squat to reduce the prevalence of unwanted pregnancies in the first place with their consistent anti-contraception agenda. Surprise!

Thank you everyone who has been respectful and provided good counter arguments! And to those who joke at me, keep on keeping on.

I won't let you become a martyr. That would be letting you off the hook and you'd probably enjoy it way too much.

 

[Deified Data]

The party of wanton gun rights, the death penalty, war profiteering, and cutting welfare entitlements. The GOP truly is a pro-life organization.

 

[MormaPope]

That is where we fundamentally disagree. Nobody owns another person's life. Last I checked that was called slavery. The mother doesn't own the life and doesn't have to right to decide if the child lives or dies. As for the second part, I agree if going through with the birth would mean risking the mothers life then I have no problem with it. As for the money part, are you seriously going to put a price of life?


Thank you everyone who has been respectful and provided good counter arguments! And to those who joke at me, keep on keeping on.

I'm not the one putting the price on life, the medical industry and medical insurance companies are. Also that mother has infinite more ownership of fetus than you ever will, if you don't feel that way you're wrong. You feel enough ownership over all those fetuses and mothers that you believe all of them should be born.

 

[Team Filler]

That is where we fundamentally disagree. Nobody owns another person's life. Last I checked that was called slavery. The mother doesn't own the life and doesn't have to right to decide if the child lives or dies. As for the second part, I agree if going through with the birth would mean risking the mothers life then I have no problem with it. As for the money part, are you seriously going to put a price of life?


Thank you everyone who has been respectful and provided good counter arguments! And to those who joke at me, keep on keeping on.

Why bother, it's not like you've been arguing in good faith. So far you've built up strawmen out of poor people and slavery. I'm just waiting for you to make the trifecta and bring Nazi germany into this somewhow.

Spoiler

Oops, too late, my bad.

 

[monchi-kun]

That is where we fundamentally disagree. Nobody owns another person's life. Last I checked that was called slavery. The mother doesn't own the life and doesn't have to right to decide if the child lives or dies.

What kind of reasoning is this? Slavery? Are you kidding me?

Biologically speaking (and keeping religion out of this) the mother owns this life. This organism cannot exist w/o the host. How you can equate that to slavery of one sentient being to another is just illogical.