GOP hopeful: 'Rape thing' not cause for abortion

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That is where we fundamentally disagree. Nobody owns another person's life. Last I checked that was called slavery. The mother doesn't own the life and doesn't have to right to decide if the child lives or dies. As for the second part, I agree if going through with the birth would mean risking the mothers life then I have no problem with it. As for the money part, are you seriously going to put a price of life?
Do you think people should be slaughtered for manslaughter/murder if a pregnant mother loses her fetus in a car accident or accidentally causes injury, resulting in a premature termination of the pregnancy?

Do you think in vitro fertilization should be banned due to the fact that 3 in 4 fetuses fail to implant?

Is a person committing murder if they severely injure themselves since they'd be killing a larger numbers of cells than those found in a fetus?
 
Part of me wants to say the main reason so many champion anti-abortion laws is because, deep down, they believe that Jesus is God's rape-baby.
 
Hey look another Abortion thread.

Once upon a time, in this very country (United States) we tried to outright ban something once... didn't work out so well...

The funny thing is that supporters of banning abortion, or "Pro-Life" people, fail to understand that it isn't going to stop abortion, in fact it will result in an increase of more women suffering through an increase of illegal back-alley abortion incidents.

Sure you may not like it (I personally don't) but don't be so damn naive in thinking federal bans will solve anything. And also, give some respect to a woman in regards on whatever she wants to do with her own body.
 
Stop the name calling, guys.

Just because the Republicans love life and hate slavery, that doesn't mean you get to resort to such petty tactics. Maybe you should try supporting the party that opposes slavery instead, hm?
 
That's what you made it out to be many times though.
Well I'm not saying liberals directly support killing babies and name calling them as such, but it is a real consequence of what they do support. Can't say the same thing for the conservative view though, by not supporting abortions doesn't mean we are letting the rapists off the hook. We can still hunt them down and punish them.

So what you're saying is that those who don't vote Republican don't respect life? Besides, the GOP being against abortion is a very small part of why people question the things these representatives are saying. Considering some of the other things they said, it wouldn't be much better if they supported the legislation of abortion. The consistent use of questionable logic and ignorance that is not founded in rational beliefs is what bothers people. What is outlines is not a respectful, intelligently thought-out argument against abortion, because you can be against abortion without sounding ignorant.
If you are in favor of allowing society to kill it's innocents then how can you say you respect life to the same degree? Even if you deny science and believe a fetus is just a fetus, it is still a fundamental part of life and killing it sure isn't respecting life. Just my view.

Also I know there's many other reasons why one would be against the GOP or Democratatic party, and I'm well aware that abortions is not the number one issue in America (nobody thinks that). But this thread is about abortions so that's what we're going to talk about in this thread.
 
If you honestly believe a fetus has the same right to live as a baby, and that a woman's right to control her body is trumped by that fetuses right to live, then rape exceptions don't make any sense. At least this guy follows his premises to their logical conclusion.
 
Hey look another Abortion thread.

Once upon a time, in this very country (United States) we tried to outright ban something once... didn't work out so well...

The funny thing is that supporters of banning abortion, or "Pro-Life" people, fail to understand that it isn't going to stop abortion, in fact it will result in an increase of more women suffering through and increase of illegal back-alley abortion incidents.

Sure you may not like it (I personally don't) but don't be so damn naive in thinking federal bans will solve anything. And also, give some respect to a woman in regards on whatever she wants to do with her own body.



Hey look another Rape thread.

Once upon a time, in this very country (United States) we tried to outright ban something once... didn't work out so well...

The funny thing is that supporters of banning rape, or "Pro-sexual autonomy" people, fail to understand that it isn't going to stop rape, in fact it will result in an increase of more women suffering through and increase of illegal back-alley rape incidents.

Sure you may not like it (I personally don't) but don't be so damn naive in thinking federal bans will solve anything. And also, give some respect to a rapist in regards on whatever he wants to do with his own body.
 
If you honestly believe a fetus has the same right to live as a baby, and that a woman's right to control her body is trumped by that fetuses right to live, then rape exceptions don't make any sense. At least this guy follows his premises to their logical conclusion.

Bingo.
 
If our goal is to maximize happy families and healthy relationships then we should just kill all the people in poverty. We can make our country full of 100% happy families and relationships very easily.

Something about this analogy seems a little overblown.

In the same respect if the liberals respect life they have a really funny way of showing it by allowing a women to murder because she doesn't want to go through a pregnancy. And don't make an excuse that it's also better for the child too, there are plenty of ways we can make sure that child gets a good life that's better than being dead.

That's true! We could expand the social safety net. Frum had a pretty interesting article about how Germany's abortion rate is far, far lower than America despite having a pretty open abortion policy. Why? Because they provide years of government-paid maternity leave. Guess what, it turns out that people worry less about unwanted pregnancies when they aren't afraid of going broke. So shouldn't you be fighting aggressively for expanding the welfare state? It's really a question of life.
 
Hey look another Rape thread.

Once upon a time, in this very country (United States) we tried to outright ban something once... didn't work out so well...

The funny thing is that supporters of banning rape, or "Pro-sexual autonomy" people, fail to understand that it isn't going to stop rape, in fact it will result in an increase of more women suffering through and increase of illegal back-alley rape incidents.

Sure you may not like it (I personally don't) but don't be so damn naive in thinking federal bans will solve anything. And also, give some respect to a rapist in regards on whatever he wants to do with his own body.

Holy shit, this is like the thread of terrible analogies.
 
I figure eventually that the GOP will just refuse to answer these questions. At least if they had any brains at all. Most of their horrid answers are not coming unsolicited but from questions in interviews. Why answer any question with reference to rape at all?

I do wonder how science is only going to complicate this issue in the near future. As antenatal care improves, the minimum time required for a fetus in the womb in lessening. Where we draw the line intrigues me much more than pro-choice with an undefined line arguing with life at conception pro-lifers.

I also don't believe that "there are only so many performed after x point" is a sufficient answer to this dilemma.
 
If you are in favor of allowing society to kill it's innocents then how can you say you respect life to the same degree? Even if you deny science and believe a fetus is just a fetus, it is still a fundamental part of life and killing it sure isn't respecting life. Just my view.

Science says a fetus is a fetus. You're calling it a life based on your own beliefs.
 
That's true! We could expand the social safety net. Frum had a pretty interesting article about how Germany's abortion rate is far, far lower than America despite having a pretty open abortion policy. Why? Because they provide years of government-paid maternity leave. Guess what, it turns out that people worry less about unwanted pregnancies when they aren't afraid of going broke. So shouldn't you be fighting aggressively for expanding the welfare state? It's really a question of life.

Germany is desperate for new babies though, so they are giving plenty of incentives for women to birth babies. Of course that´s not wrong at all, i mean giving incentives.
 
Hey look another Rape thread.

Once upon a time, in this very country (United States) we tried to outright ban something once... didn't work out so well...

The funny thing is that supporters of banning rape, or "Pro-sexual autonomy" people, fail to understand that it isn't going to stop rape, in fact it will result in an increase of more women suffering through and increase of illegal back-alley rape incidents.

Sure you may not like it (I personally don't) but don't be so damn naive in thinking federal bans will solve anything. And also, give some respect to a rapist in regards on whatever he wants to do with his own body.

What?

What the hell is this?
 
Hey look another Rape thread.

Once upon a time, in this very country (United States) we tried to outright ban something once... didn't work out so well...

The funny thing is that supporters of banning rape, or "Pro-sexual autonomy" people, fail to understand that it isn't going to stop rape, in fact it will result in an increase of more women suffering through and increase of illegal back-alley rape incidents.

Sure you may not like it (I personally don't) but don't be so damn naive in thinking federal bans will solve anything. And also, give some respect to a rapist in regards on whatever he wants to do with his own body.

Is this a joke? Because that is a TERRIBLE (not to mention extremely offensive) analogy to make.
 
I figure eventually that the GOP will just refuse to answer these questions. At least if they had any brains at all. Most of their horrid answers are not coming unsolicited but from questions in interviews. Why answer any question with reference to rape at all?

They don't think what they are saying is wrong.
 
Hey look another Rape thread.

Once upon a time, in this very country (United States) we tried to outright ban something once... didn't work out so well...

The funny thing is that supporters of banning rape, or "Pro-sexual autonomy" people, fail to understand that it isn't going to stop rape, in fact it will result in an increase of more women suffering through and increase of illegal back-alley rape incidents.

Sure you may not like it (I personally don't) but don't be so damn naive in thinking federal bans will solve anything. And also, give some respect to a rapist in regards on whatever he wants to do with his own body.



Also, Conservative/Right/Whatever gaf, shit like this is what you claim needs to be met with intellect.

Let that sink in.
 
A fetus is a clump of cells in her body. When do you ascribe it "life"? It sure as hell isn't at conception.
Cells are living according to science. And these clump of cells that make up a fetus have a unique genetic code that says it is human. So yeah, I'm pretty sure that conception is when we can start calling it a human. Fetus is just the term we use to describe that phase of life, just like "baby," "child," and "adult."

At the base of supporting killing, the entire nation does it via military. Its not some precious commodity in this life. Remember, if you commit a crime, you can be killed for doing so. Its legal killing. That is the precedent we have to deal with, again, conservatives don't mesh with reality. We aren't living in a country based around moral code, and happiness.

You're just removing a womans choice to kill her unborn child, for your own reasons. As the life excuse does not stack up, considering the data on Abortion vs police shootings/death row/and military killings.

Life is life, right?
The difference being that the people are military is trying to kill are not innocent. The people on death row are not innocent. An unborn human is innocent. And if we aren't living in a country with a moral code then I must have jumped to an alternate universe.

I am not removing a woman's choice to kill her unborn child for my own reason, I am in support of removing a woman's choice to kill her unborn child for the unborn child's reasons.
 
NUCOF.png

:jnc

I'm sad I missed this episode.
 
Arguing that abortion should be legal because it will still happen is stupid in the same way that arguing rape should be legal because it will still happen is.

Dude. Dude. You're comparing a violent crime that's never been legal to a medical procedure that some people think is unethical due to their particular religious beliefs. You need to think before you post this kind of thing.
 
Cells are living according to science. And these clump of cells that make up a fetus have a unique genetic code that says it is human. So yeah, I'm pretty sure that conception is when we can start calling it a human. Fetus is just the term we use to describe that phase of life, just like "baby," "child," and "adult."

Sperm are also living cells with unique genetic code

Upon conception, we have a zygote, which no scientist would say is a human.
 
Dude. Dude. You're comparing a violent crime that's never been legal to a medical procedure that some people think is unethical due to their particular religious beliefs. You need to think before you post this kind of thing.

Reality is sometimes too confusing for some people it seems.
 
Science says a fetus is a fetus. You're calling it a life based on your own beliefs.
Science says a fetus is made up of cells. Science says cells are life. Therefore a fetus is life. Now if we are going to discuss if a fetus is a human life or just a life, a fetus has it's own unique genetic code and it states it is human. So scientifically speaking, a fetus is a human life.

Sperm are also living cells with unique genetic code

Upon conception, we have a zygote, which no scientist would say is a human.
Yes but a sperm cell's genetic code does not say it is human, it is missing half the chromosomes that would be necessary to be considered human.

Dude. Dude. You're comparing a violent crime that's never been legal to a medical procedure that some people think is unethical due to their particular religious beliefs. You need to think before you post this kind of thing.

Just to be clear my view that abortions should be made illegal is not at all because of religious beliefs.
 
Arguing that abortion should be legal because it will still happen is stupid in the same way that arguing rape should be legal because it will still happen is.

Dude. Dude. You're comparing a violent crime that's never been legal to a medical procedure that some people think is unethical due to their particular religious beliefs. You need to think before you post this kind of thing.

Thank you Orayn, and there's the ban.
 
If you honestly believe a fetus has the same right to live as a baby, and that a woman's right to control her body is trumped by that fetuses right to live, then rape exceptions don't make any sense. At least this guy follows his premises to their logical conclusion.

Indeed. But it is a ridiculous position. And that is why they resort to things like deluding themselves into believing in magical rape contraception systems.

The rape abortion is agreed upon by most people as being fine. And if it is fine, then why not other cases? Fine with me. Let the women & doctor decide.
 
Science says a fetus is made up of cells. Science says cells are life. Therefore a fetus is life. Now if we are going to discuss if a fetus is a human life or just a life, a fetus has it's own unique genetic code and it states it is human. So scientifically speaking, a fetus is a human life.

Reductionism |OT| A therefore B, B therefore C. I win!

...Even if I give this argument to you, the status of a fetus as human life isn't the relevant quantity here. Whether or not a fetus that is not yet viable does (it doesn't) or should (it shouldn't) have legal personhood is the salient topic.

Yes but a sperm cell's genetic code does not say it is human, it is missing half the chromosomes that would be necessary to be considered human.

So it's ~0.5 human lives. Every ejaculation, even if it could lead to pregnancy, is still genocide!
 
Cells are living according to science. And these clump of cells that make up a fetus have a unique genetic code that says it is human. So yeah, I'm pretty sure that conception is when we can start calling it a human. Fetus is just the term we use to describe that phase of life, just like "baby," "child," and "adult."


The difference being that the people are military is trying to kill are not innocent. The people on death row are not innocent. An unborn human is innocent. And if we aren't living in a country with a moral code then I must have jumped to an alternate universe.

I am not removing a woman's choice to kill her unborn child for my own reason, I am in support of removing a woman's choice to kill her unborn child for the unborn child's reasons.

What does innocence have to do with the purity of life?

Is that why its ok to have an abortion when raped..?

edit:

Also, I mean collateral damage from killing innocent civilians, and childrern.
 
Science says a fetus is made up of cells. Science says cells are life. Therefore a fetus is life. Now if we are going to discuss if a fetus is a human life or just a life, a fetus has it's own unique genetic code and it states it is human. So scientifically speaking, a fetus is a human life.

Yes but a sperm cell's genetic code does not say it is human, it is missing half the chromosomes that would be necessary to be considered human.

If you really want to go by that definition, a tumor is also a life.

You're free to believe that life begins at conception, but it's not backed up by science.

As a scientist I would call it a human zygote.

Should have rephrased, but I think you know what I mean. A zygote is not a "life".
 
So it's ~0.5 human lives. Every ejaculation, even if it could lead to pregnancy, is still genocide!

I hope I'll have your full support in my 2016 bid to ban masturbation and menstruation.

The third M is Murder.

Reductionism |OT| A therefore B, B therefore C. I win!

This made me laugh more than it should have. I almost feel bad for the guy now. He's fighting a losing battle uphill both ways.

So is every human being. That´s one helluva dumb argument.

It's especially poor when you choose to ignore the rest of the argument he makes throughout the thread.
 
Arguing that abortion should be legal because it will still happen is stupid in the same way that arguing rape should be legal because it will still happen is.
For once I'm going to actually take Orayn's side here. Abortion is something someone chooses to do with their own body and they are obviously consenting to it. Rape on the other hand is something a rapist does with someone else's body without that person's consent. This isn't just an apples and oranges comparison, it's an apples and boulders comparison.

Also, good riddance.
 
I had to stop arguing because the semantic battle is one that gets boring really quick. Life itself isn't sacred or special though, it's how life lives. I wouldn't consider a fetus living, it may have life, but it isn't living.
 
Reductionism |OT| A therefore B, B therefore C. I win!

...Even if I give this argument to you, the status of a fetus as human life isn't the relevant quantity here. Whether or not a fetus that is not yet viable does (it doesn't) or should (it shouldn't) have legal personhood is the salient topic.
572474-yeah_well_thats_just_like_your_opinion_man.jpeg



So it's ~0.5 human lives. Every ejaculation, even if it could lead to pregnancy, is still genocide!
Nope, there is no such thing as 0.5 of a life, at least not in the universe I've been living in. If you leave an ejaculated sperm alone, it will die. If you leave a fetus alone, it will continue to grow (unless the mother chooses to kill it, the mother dies, or some other tragedy). And don't say that it's dependence on a host doesn't make it a life because last I checked science considers mutualistic, commensalistic, and parasitic organisms as life.
 
And don't say that it's dependence on a host doesn't make it a life because last I checked science considers mutualistic, commensalistic, and parasitic organisms as life.

Yes, and it's still ok to kill them so long as one organism continues to live. You can do it as early as conception with the morning after pill.
 
If you really want to go by that definition, a tumor is also a life.

You're free to believe that life begins at conception, but it's not backed up by science.



Should have rephrased, but I think you know what I mean. A zygote is not a "life".
A tumor does not have a unique genetic code, it has the same genetic code as the organism of which it was derived except with some mistranscriptions.

My argument that a fetus is a human life is still backed up by science, nice try though. Actually pretty clever, I had to think for a second.
 
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