Jedeye Sniv
Banned
I was sooooo hyped for the New 52 and so supportive of the first few months. Now I read about 5 DC titles, the least for my entire adult life. I think they broke it.
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- Thread starter The Take Out Bandit
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krypt0nian
Banned
I was/am heavily invested in pre-52 DCbut that hasn't affected my enjoyment of New 52 one bit. These are new stories, the old ones didn't get torn up or dissappear. They all still happened. I read them. This doesn't suck at all for me. Some changes I like, some I don't. Regardless I'm still getting excellent comics monthly from DC and everywhere else.
Hypertime, brah.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
I totally agree with hypertime, it's been my mantra since the Kingdom wrapped
Hypertime can't fix bland stories and creative directions though, nor can it give Scott Lobdell relevance and a feel for the younger generation
hypertime can't even fix a meandering and utterly boring story by two of comics' most promising rising stars in Snyder and Lemire, and this makes me very sad.At least Batman is still good, that's all I need.
krypt0nian
Banned
I totally agree with hypertime, it's been my mantra since the Kingdom wrapped
Hypertime can't fix bland stories and creative directions though, nor can it give Scott Lobdell relevance and a feel for the younger generation
At least Batman is still good, that's all I need.
Well everyone's mileage will vary, but I've enjoyed Lobdell's output across the board here, far more than his glory days back when.
His one issue of Superman was full of energy and coolasfuck story.
And Swampy/Animal Man read much better over time instead of monthly. Give it a try.
If I were to write up New 52 disappointments I certainly wouldn't start with those.
That sums my position up as well. I can always go back and revisit old stories and am enjoying a lot of the new.
Anticitizen One
Banned
On average there really only is like 5-10 good books from each of the big two going at one time anyway.
Anticitizen One
Banned
No its about rebooting properties in attempt to make their line more marketable (i.e. more like Marvel)
krypt0nian
Banned
This. But good thing there are more than two companies. Hell, my fave book is Pathfinder from Dynamite.
oh wow, isn't that written by Remender too? i may need it just for that cover...
Obviously, I wasn't being literal with that statement.
New-52 has been fine, but now they're getting into more of these crossovers across a "family" of books. That's where they lose me. Impossible to cherry pick one or two books when a story involves 4 or 5 books.
Yeah, yeah, I know. Marvel does it too, but it's the crossover hard sell that is turning me off the big 2. To hell with that. Too much good stuff out there to enjoy without getting conned into buying extra books.
Yeah, yeah, I know. Marvel does it too, but it's the crossover hard sell that is turning me off the big 2. To hell with that. Too much good stuff out there to enjoy without getting conned into buying extra books.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Ill gladly buy hypercrisis. But that shit isn't happening.
krypt0nian
Banned
We don't need another crisis. They were right to skip a year+ of events.
Supermanisdead
Member
DC, can we get a Red Robin series already? Jeez.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Seriously. Marvel needs to relearn that shit before I even think about going back. I'm so very, very sick of EVENT THAT WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING, 1-2 issues then EVENT THAT WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING.
But, in the meanwhile, I'm still in love with Hellboy/BPRD. Is Mignola still making them?
Shout outs to Joker's child in Fairlawn, NJ.
I've been away for a while because of a loss of power. I still have no internet connection at home so I am reporting to you live from my sensation and perception university class.
As for my pull list:
Detective Comics #14
Green Lantern #14
Avengers #33
Avengers Academy #39
AvX Consequences #5
Daredevil End Of Days #2
Defenders #12
Iron Man #1
New Avengers #32
Scarlet Spider #11
Uncanny X-Force #33
Uncanny Avengers would have been as well :/
Spike Spiegel
Member
Just read the final issue of X-Men Legacy (before Marvel NOW! that is) on my lunch break, and I think I know what the problem was.
Gage wasted very little time before focusing the spotlight on Rogue.
But his Rogue isn't a very likeable interpretation.
And she WON'T. SHUT. UP.
Gage wasted very little time before focusing the spotlight on Rogue.
But his Rogue isn't a very likeable interpretation.
And she WON'T. SHUT. UP.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Same here.
Supermanisdead
Member
Tell me about it. That series went from 10/10 with Carey to straight up unreadable with Gage. Last time I saw such a severe drop in quality was when Austen took over for Morrison on New X-Men.
The new 52 turned me from a Marvel fanboy into a DC fanboy. Well, that and AvX. Really enjoying Swamp Thing, Animal Man and Batman. I even sort of like JL
The New 52 turned me from someone who barely ever read comics to someone who is on a ~50 books a month habit. I don't fanboy in either direction and like books from both big publishers but I read more Marvel probably by a 2:1 ratio. The thing that bugs me about either publisher bugs me about both, bullshit crossovers, revolving door artists, wanky events. DC has been especially pissing me off by shuffling their writers all over the damn place, but more often than not that leads to me enjoying 2 comics where I used to only be enjoying 1.
Dude, he had Schism as the PERFECT opening to take Rogue and her band of misfits to the Jean Grey School and make another school antics book focused on the faculty instead of the kids, a foil to WatXM and he fucking WASTED IT. Gage's short run on Rogue made me never want to read another Rogue comic again. YUCK.
Wood's even shorter run on Adjectiveless on the other hand... Dat Storm/Colossus rivalry! I NEED IT IN MY VEINS!
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
I enjoy only reading a few titles a month. Once I'm done with school I may pick up a few more titles. I feel like I miss out on a lot of good stories but I can't afford to get more right now.
fredrancour
Member
But they didn't skip a year+ of events. the mini-event bullshit is horrible. I tried reading teen titans but the culling thing was awful so I stopped. American Vampire's worst issues were the JLDark crossover, and those issues looked even worse from the JLD perspective. staying in gotham was horrible for batwing. Even rotworld feels like it's dragged down the pacing of animal man and swamp thing to be slower than what either one would have gone at if left alone, hurting both books. There were like 3 months of animal man just spinning its wheels. The Third Army has drained my excitement for green lantern. H'el on earth looks so bad. I'm very afraid that Throne of Atlantis will hurt the otherwise fun aquaman. Forced mini-crossovers seem to have driven paul cornell away completely.
I'd gladly sign a contract forcing me to buy and read some horrible 12-issues-in-3-months miniseries every summer if it brought books the luxury of consistent creative teams and no forced mini-crossovers. Those two things would achieve in practice what we hoped we'd get from the "no major event" thing.
And hypertime ain't an event, it's a philosophy: "If this book is fun enough to be worth reading, I will go with whatever continuity is needed to justify it."
AND MANHATTAN PROJECTS THIS WEEK FINALLLYYYYYYYYYYY.
Oh shoot I need to buy saga volume 1 and unwritten 6.......
I'm getting that feeling a bit, after reading some history on characters.
Supermanisdead
Member
God, remember the pre-interviews? Gambit! Iceman! Cannonball! Rachel Grey! Frenzy! Chamber! Rogue! It was like a 90s fan wet dream. He even tweeted asking for good Chamber issues to research, but poor Jono never got a single line. Instead we got Mimic/Weapon Omega and Rogue spent all of AvX having sex with cats and crying about Magneto.
Yessssssssss.
Animal Man is probably my favorite book and it feels like it has been on autopilot since Foreman left and going nowhere slow.
Wow that's some top tier trolling.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
im curious, is there a reason that they pretty much left batman back to the status quo and didnt do a full reboot like they did the other lines?
Anticitizen One
Banned
because his books actually sell. Same thing with Johns Green Lantern
fredrancour
Member
1.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Batbooks sell well and there are enough popular batman characters to fuel an army of spinoffs.
2. Morrison wanted to be able to finish batman inc. It was probably a "let me write the second volume I had planned for it or I walk away from the new 52" deal.
3. I wouldn't be surprised if other authors wanted certain characters too. Tomasi seems to love writing the alfred/damien/bruce combo. I'd imagine we started with batgirl already existing half because of reason 1 and half because of gail simone
4. The mandate of "JL origin story is 5 years ago from present day new 52" means they had to have some stuff happen in the meantime. the other reasons just disproportionally drove that amount upward for batman (and green lantern)
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
so then dc wasnt completely sold on a complete reboot? that just makes all this seem lazy.
fredrancour
Member
I guess I can't say "It was never a creative decision, it was a business one" with complete authority, but......... it was probably a purely business decision ,unless there's one editor or WB manager/exec who genuinely believed a reboot could lead to more creative work, and considered continuity baggage.
It just really seems like no planning happened. It's possible that flashpoint wasn't even originally gonna break the universe. Perhaps when they created flashpoint there wasn't a new 52, or it was a softer marvel now style reboot.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Wo else is pumped for Shadowman tomorrow?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I don't think that's what it means. Clearly they were gung hu about it. They rested everything they had on it. In execution, sure, they were slipshod, but I'd stop short of calling them lazy. Completely reconfiguring 52 titles with 2.5 months of notice must have required an astonishing amount of work. Sure, they should have given themselves more time, but I don't doubt everyone on those books worked their dangs off.
krypt0nian
Banned
But they didn't skip a year+ of events. the mini-event bullshit is horrible. I tried reading teen titans but the culling thing was awful so I stopped. American Vampire's worst issues were the JLDark crossover, and those issues looked even worse from the JLD perspective. staying in gotham was horrible for batwing. Even rotworld feels like it's dragged down the pacing of animal man and swamp thing to be slower than what either one would have gone at if left alone, hurting both books. There were like 3 months of animal man just spinning its wheels. The Third Army has drained my excitement for green lantern. H'el on earth looks so bad. I'm very afraid that Throne of Atlantis will hurt the otherwise fun aquaman. Forced mini-crossovers seem to have driven paul cornell away completely.
I'd gladly sign a contract forcing me to buy and read some horrible 12-issues-in-3-months miniseries every summer if it brought books the luxury of consistent creative teams and no forced mini-crossovers. Those two things would achieve in practice what we hoped we'd get from the "no major event" thing.
And hypertime ain't an event, it's a philosophy: "If this book is fun enough to be worth reading, I will go with whatever continuity is needed to justify it."
AND MANHATTAN PROJECTS THIS WEEK FINALLLYYYYYYYYYYY.
Oh shoot I need to buy saga volume 1 and unwritten 6.......
Storylines in book are not Events, so in my eyes there were no Events for over a year. In a new universe, crossovers are pretty much mandatory, and most happened in book without need to jump across titles. Most not all. Mini events as you term them are the best way. Even at Marvel, the mini Events clown the major idiocy like Fear Itself and </spit> AvX.
I know what Hypertime is. I refered to it because it keeps all books, from all periods in play and that's how I see it.
Sorry nothing speaks to you, but that changes nothing I posted. I like far more of the books that dislike. Hence why I said everyone's mileage will vary.
fredrancour
Member
It'll be interesting 5 or 10 years down the road when someone knowledgeable no longer gives a fuck and explains the thought process behind the new 52 publicly.
This this this!
I have a handy dandy list of crossovers and tie-ins I've been half-maintaining, and it's getting huge. They've really gone overboard.
Night of the Owls (12 Issues, 1 Annual, 1 Spinoff and one extra character)
Batman 8-9, Annual 1
Nightwing 8-9
All Star Western 9, Batman: The Dark Knight 9, Batwing 9, Batman & Robin 9, Birds of Prey 9, Catwoman 9, Detective Comics 9, Red Hood and the Outlaws 9
(Talon Spinoff)
(Strix in Batgirl 13 / Batgirl Annual 1 / BoP16)
Rise of the Vampires (5 Issues)
I Vampire 6 -> (End of JLD6) -> Justice League Dark 7 -> I Vampire 7 -> Justice League Dark 8 -> I Vampire 8
The Culling (6 Issues, 1 Annual, 1 Spinoff)
Prelude (Teen Titans / Superboy / Legion Lost 8)
Annual 1
Superboy 9 -> Legion Lost 9 -> Teen Titans 9
(Ravagers Spinoff)
Rotworld (13 Issues, 1 Annual [+ Possible zero issues, and possible Ravagersing])
Prelude - Animal Man 12 / Swamp Thing 12, Annual 1, (And the Zero Issues? I don't know)
Red Kingdom - Animal Man 13-16+ (Ravagers 5?)
Green Kingdom - Swamp Thing 13-16+
Secrets of the Dead - Frankenstein (0), 13-15
Rise of the Third Army (16 Issues, 1 Annual)
Green Lantern 13-16
Green Lantern Corps 13-16
Green Lantern: New Guardians 13-16
Red Lanterns 13-16
Green Lantern Corps Annual 1
Death of the Family (23 issues and still going, [+ TT14? and RHatO #0])
Batman 13-16+
Batman & Robin 14-16+
Batgirl 14-16+
Catwoman 13-14
Nightwing 14-16+
Suicide Squad 14-15
Teen Titans (14?) 15-16+
Red Hood and the Outlaws (0), 15-16+
Detective Comics 15-16+
H'el on Earth (10 Issues [and ongoing?], 1 Annual)
Superman 13 -> Superboy 14 -> Supergirl 14 -> Superman 14
Superman / Supergirl / Superboy 15
Superman / Supergirl / Superboy 16 (Superboy Annual 1?)
Eclipso / Black Diamond (9 Issues, presumably more to come)
Demon Knights 14-15
All Star Western 14-15
Team 7 #2-4
Catwoman 15-16
Throne of Atlantis (5 Issues?)
Justice League 15 -> Aquaman 15 -> Justice League 16 -> Aquaman 16 -> ? (It says 16 is the penultimate chapter, but I don't know if it would finish in JL 17, Aquaman 17, or an annual tbh)
Mini Crossovers
Suicide Squad/ Resurrection Man 9
Blue Beetle / GL:NG 9
Firestorm / JLI 9
Teen Titans / DC Universe Presents 12
Superboy 13 / Ravagers 5? (This one is only a possible - it sounded like a mini-crossover, but might just be cameo time)
O.M.A.C / Frankenstein 5 (which was a "two sides of the same story" deal)
fredrancour
Member
Actually I still read a very large amount of books from the reboot. I just find the mini-events painful more often than not.
krypt0nian
Banned
Most of that was great fun. I don't see the issue. Building continuity.
I look forward to the mini events and look forward to more. Shared universe comics thrive on this.
TheKaeptain
Banned
At least DC wasn't talking out of their asses when they said Flashpoint would change everything.
Supermanisdead
Member
Holy shit at Death of the Family. I've only got up to issue 12 of Batman and none of the others.
krypt0nian
Banned
Look up things like No Man's Land. Or World at War. HUGE storylines that had amazing moments and great payoffs.
Big two comics cross over. It's one of the things I love about them.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Indeed. Which is how I fell back in love with DC.
I mean, Marvel tried this exact thing with Onslaught into Heroes Reborn (the exact same formula) but it sucked, was Liefeld'd up the ass and was quickly retconned. DC made it work. For the most part.
Supermanisdead
Member
Yeah, I'm a Marvel Zombie so I know about crazy ass crossovers (I read every House of M and Age of Apocalypse issue). I prefer crossovers where the story continues through multiple books instead of just being separate, but related to the main series. For example Messiah Complex instead of Fear Itself.
Most of that was great fun. I don't see the issue. Building continuity.
I look forward to the mini events and look forward to more. Shared universe comics thrive on this.
I have no issues with building continuity I just think the number of crossovers occurring in rapid succession (or simultaneously) is getting somewhat insane. Maybe I'm a cynic, but I think at least some of them are designed to be cash grabs first and stories second, rather than the other way around (and I resent the impact it has on my budget if I try to keep up with them
)Court, and then Night of the Owls was very good, but also rather slow, and as someone new to the series the final reveal didn't have as much impact as I assume it was meant to.
Rise of the Vampires, frankly, was the worst of both titles. It lacked the character and mania of Milligan's JLD and the charisma and uniqueness of I, Vampire. It was a mess. I, Vampire became far, far better afterwards, but the crososver itself was poor. Definitely not fun.
The Culling - Also incredibly dull and decidedly un-fun. The forced nature of the thing drove me mad, and the lack of character the... characters... displayed was ridiculous.
(And yes, I'm sorry, but I am one of the people who thinks the Legion Lost folks shouldn't have had such a poor showing, considering that unlike the Titans being from the future should mean they don't have a Flashpoint mandated prior experience limit, and that where they come from they're not just teen heroes, they're full fledged heroes)
Rotworld - Okay, I'm not reading all of this, but I have to admit I like what I've read so far. Secrets of the Dead is fantastic, but then I've liked Frankenstein a lot since Kindt came on board.
Rise of the Third Army - I was only reading GL:NG. I'm not picking up the rest of it for the sake of a story I don't have any interest in. I'm waiting for the next arc (or well, Annual. And Threshold)
Death of the Family - Seriously, with all the tie-ins it would be a monster. Assuming the reception remains good, I'll pick it up in trade eventually. It would probably read better that way anyway. Probably.
I'll keep picking up RHatO, and probably the Teen Titans issues as they link character-wise, but that's about it.
H'El on Earth - as someone who only started reading Superman with #0 and 13. I loved the zero issue (I actually wish it had been a full past arc, rather than a single issue), and I enjoyed 13. I wanted to give the Lobdell/Rocafort team I loved on RHatO a chance here, but I don't have the any inclination to 'test' the series by jumping into a massive crossover straight off the bat.
The mini crossovers I've read were passable, but I still just don't know that they gained anything from being crossovers - probably not even the ratings boosts or extra fans I cynically assume they were meant to obtain by exposing audiences to other characters
Actually though, I will admit that the smaller crossovers are pretty good for building a consistant world. (That said, things like mass vampire slaughter not being mentioned elsewhere don't necessarily aid that so much).
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
damn, I didn't know Aquaman was crossing over into JLA :/
I was ok with Night of Owls but I didn't buy every part. Rise of the Vampires I didn't buy the I, Vampire part and was lost in the JL Dark issues.
Rotworld doesn't bug me I read those 3 books anyway but the Green Lantern thing I probably wait a month and get them if I'm liking it.
Death of the Family I'm cool with too but H'el on Earth I'm only reading the Supergirl part.
Oh and eclipso I'll only read All star Western from. Oh maybe the Catwoman ones eventually.
it does seem like a lot
I was ok with Night of Owls but I didn't buy every part. Rise of the Vampires I didn't buy the I, Vampire part and was lost in the JL Dark issues.
Rotworld doesn't bug me I read those 3 books anyway but the Green Lantern thing I probably wait a month and get them if I'm liking it.
Death of the Family I'm cool with too but H'el on Earth I'm only reading the Supergirl part.
Oh and eclipso I'll only read All star Western from. Oh maybe the Catwoman ones eventually.
it does seem like a lot
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
i dont mean the reboot in its entirety, i mean keeping batman and gl at a somewhat status quo. a complete reworking of the batman line would have been good, and it would stop people asking for various characters to appear. the way things are now, it would only make people wonder why a character they like isnt included in the new 52
but it didnt change everything. it changed somethings. if they had went the tangent route, i would agree with that sentiment.
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