Geoff Keighley will be responding to Doritosgate

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S

Schobeleth

Member
I still don't quite understand why it blew up so much in the first place. Someone got pissed that someone else called them out for journalistic integrity - go figure. If someone calls you out on your integrity and then you do lots of suspicious things instead of proving your integrity, it's going to look bad. I dunno, maybe I'm just talking nonsense. Don't listen to me :S
 
B

bloodyroarxx

Member
Never understood the issue, Geoff isn't a journalist, his whole job is centered around helping market games pre-release.

Dude does good work outside of that with the "Final hours of" stuff too.

Haters just hatin.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
ii Stryker said:
How so?

These analogies match up perfectly. It's not like he's doing car safety reviews.
Click to expand...

When people disagree with a point, they also redefine what an "analogy" means. Instead of being a comparison between two things of partial similarity, they want it to be a perfect 1:1, in which case, of course it doesn't match up, that's the point of an analogy.

oatmeal said:
If he's smart he'll 100% embrace it and come out wearing a custom made Dorito hat.
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Completely agree. I hope he does a video response wearing a Mountain Dew shirt, eating doritos, and ordering Papa John's pizza, saying how he is not influenced by corporate sponsorship. Self-righteous-gaf will have a complete meltdown.
 
G

goodfella

Member
I really think I'm missing something here. Doritos paid him to pimp their shit. So what? What negative consequence does this result in?

I feel like people are jumping on some hate bandwagon that is widely missunderstood.

I could understand outrage if he was advertising a game that he himself reviewed. However, he is never a reviewer, nor was this sponsorship gaming related.

There was absolutely no conflict of interest here as far as I can see.
 
O

Oersted

Member
The Albatross said:
To those who are so offended by Keighley:
Encourage more mainstream journalists (ie, NYT, WSJ, WaPo, Fox News, MSNBC, etc) to cover your games instead of ripping them whenever they have an opinion that doesn't match the Gaf-videogame-elitist-theory."

Generally, if you pull up any thread where mainstream press covers videogames, Gaf collectively loses itself over how none of the mainstream press "gets it." The most current post I remember was some article about the new Modern Warfare game, and it had dozens (hundreds) of posts lampooning this non-industry guy for just being so out of touch when it came to videogames. Here's the thing, he wasn't out of touch, he was representing the overwhelming mainstream that plays games that do share his opinions, and we're so hyper elitist about what entertains him that we all just lost it that any non-insider would even waste his time covering something that he, clearly, knows nothing about.

The result of our exclusivity when it comes to videogame coverage is that those in the industry, those people who do cover videogames have to get their revenue from two places:

a) Video game producers themselves (which are the majority of advertisers, and historically always have been)
b) Key industry advertisers like Mountain Dew, Doritos, Ax body spray, and whatever the other mainstays are.

And then we see this advertising and, again, collectively lose our minds. My point is: We should be happy that it was Doritos -- a non-videogame producer -- advertising and not Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo, AND that we have created this environment by ridiculing mainstream coverage of our cherished hobby.
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First: WATCH. THE. INTERVIEW.


His opinion was clearly paid but he was acting like he is a journalist, reporting actual truth.
Geoff Keighley could have drawn a line. He didn´t. He is getting called out. No "being offended". And yes we can actual journalists ask to cover our hobby. But you easily can do both things ;)
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
The Albatross said:
Is one better than the other? Seems like your implying that athletes are justified because they "don't talk about nike" on the sideline. If Keighley were playing Halo 4 and then snacking on some delish Cool Ranche and washing it down with intense Code Red, without mentioning the products with his dulcet voice, that would have been okay? Advertising in other areas, like for instance sports, is much more pervasive. There is a reason players, teams, and the league have "MOTOROLA" Headsets with the logo emblazoned, Nike Pro Combat uniforms, special Nike Air-Jordans (jesus christ, an entire brand built by one dunk by one player at one moment in sports history), and advertising logos everywhere on the screen.



Because you took my joke seriously. Me trying to deduce your self-indulgent indignity over a bag of doritos is far less idiotic than you trying to extract a serious point out of a joke photo of Bill Belichik being soaked by a gatorade bath.
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To the bolded, one is worse. You not seeing that I guess is where we agree to disagree. Also something being a joke doesn't disguise it's intentions or meaning. I think it's even more idiotic to blame the gaming journalist issues on consumers and that we ourselves caused it.

Like it or not, gaming is a huge eco-system. Gaming journalists effect it, NeoGaf effects it, everyday consumers effect it, not giving a shit is fine for you I guess, but blowing off the idea that this system can be altered for better or worst is short sighted to say the least.
 
S

Sean

Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
None of those analogies match up to this. None.
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What makes this any different? A food/drinks company paid for product placement in his video game show. Seems like standard advertising. Not seeing how it's any worse than this:

x-factor-pepsi-drinks.jpg


Oersted said:
Watch the interview. It wasn´t just pathetic sponsoring. Geoff Keighley did an ad, while acting like he is still in his game journo job.
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Wasn't aware there was a video, I'll have to watch that later. I'm just going off the picture posted here which was pretty harmless IMO.
 
T

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
I see Keighley more as a presenter/talk-show host than a "journalist", so I think Doritos-Gate is overblown. The real drama is the Florence/Wainwright thing.
 
O

Oersted

Member
Sean said:
What makes this any different? A food/drinks company paid for product placement in his video game show. Seems like standard advertising. Not seeing how it's any worse than this:

x-factor-pepsi-drinks.jpg




Wasn't aware there was a video, I'll have to watch that later. I'm just going off the picture posted here which was pretty harmless IMO.
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Can´t see a journalist there doing PR talk. And yes, watch it.
 
B

Barbacoatl

Banned
Tempy said:
I see Keighley more as a presenter/talk-show host than a "journalist", so I think Doritos-Gate is overblown. The real drama is the Florence/Wainwright thing.
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Well, he does describe himself on twitter as a "Videogame journalist". I agree with you in that I don't see him as a journalist either. That description fits someone like Tad Szulc, not some junk food salesman.
 
O

Oersted

Member
Tempy said:
I see Keighley more as a presenter/talk-show host than a "journalist", so I think Doritos-Gate is overblown. The real drama is the Florence/Wainwright thing.
Click to expand...

In the interview he has given tips how to become a journalist like himself. On his Twitter page and on his own page he is referring to himself as journalist.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
Oersted said:
First: WATCH. THE. INTERVIEW.


His opinion was clearly paid but he was acting like he is a journalist, reporting actual truth.
Geoff Keighley could have drawn line. He didn´t. He is getting called out. No "being offended". And yes we can actual journalists ask to cover our hobby. But you easily can do both things ;)
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I watched it back when this crisis broke... and watched about 2 minutes, more than I'd watch any Geoff Keighley video, and .. seriously couldn't figure out what the outrage was other than the obviously hilarious product placement. He very clearly says, "If you buy Doritos you get codes to use to get double XP." Is he paid to promote this? Yes. Is anybody having the wool pulled over their eyes by this, or tricked in any way...? I personally don't think so.

If people want to call him out to cover videogames I think that's fine, it's your prerogative to see something wrong with it. But I don't think that people who are appalled by this just get that those who cover videogames have very few revenue streams. They have industry mainstays like Mountain Dew, Candy bar companies, and chip makers... maybe deoderant people and what not... And then the videogame companies themselves. And that's it.

Every niche that's covered gets this treatment. Videogames are lucky to have advertising streams like deoderant or soda, because many other hobbies do not get those additional revenue streams.

This question is moot and I'm really just wondering out of curiosity, not to make a point from it. Anybody who is offended/mad/upset/indignant/etc about Keighley doing this. Are you at all influenced by his opinions or by Mountain Dew "DEWXP" codes? Have you ever made a decision based off of Keighley before?
 
B

Barbacoatl

Banned
Crewnh said:
If you use that title, you have an ethical standard and expectation to meet.

I dont know why you think people want journalists to work for free. I dont think anyone has said that.
Click to expand...
I think he believes Billy Mays was a journalist too, a great one at that.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Did we ever find out if the people conducting the interview knew they were basically being used to shill Doritos and Dew before the interview started? Did they get a cut? That's arguably the weirdest part of the whole thing, to me--that these unrelated people happily labeled an infomercial they were party to as an "interview". The failing isn't just Keighley's, he's just the one on camera and in the hilarious photoshops.
 
J

JDSN

Banned
I personally dont think people are really interested or need Geoff to clarify what happened, he isnt the center of Doritosgate, just a funny picture of some internet persona that quickly escalated into a confrontation between journalists and presumably a game publisher, it also involved peripheral stuff like swag, journalist persecution complex and apathy.

Requiring Geoff to explain himself for being a shill is like asking to a tiger why does he hunts the zebra.

The Albatross said:
http://graphics.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/02/26/1204046671_8509/499w.jpg

TEDDY BRUSCHI AND BILL BELICHIK MUST ANSWER FOR THIS GRIEVOUS PRODUCT PLACEMENT[/QUOTE]

[quote="The Albatross, post: 44780699"]I get making fun of it, but I seriously do not give a shit. Fact is, this "journalism" industry does not generate ANY revenue outside of the industry that it is covering, and it can't, because as soon as any non-industry resource covers our sacred cow we lose our collective shits when they don't "get" games like we do. Cue the ridiculous gaf response to that WSJ article reviewing CoD:MW3 or whatever it was, and everybody got so indignant and offended that the reviewer thought that the CoD games were tops.

Geoff surrounded by doritos are our own fucking faults. ANd let's just be thankful that it's goddam doritos and mountain dew, mainstays of videogame advertising, instead of Master Chief or Mario.

[b]We're all a fucking joke, at least Geoff Keighley is making a living at it.[/b][/QUOTE]

Great posts, I wonder which one of [URL="http://i.imgur.com/TQA4D.jpg"]these[/URL] are you.
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F

flyinpiranha

Member
Anticitizen One said:
so this whole controversy is about keighley being a corporate shill and how commercialism is seeping heavy into gaming? Have you dudes been asleep for the past 6 years or what??

This whole weird marketing message has been pushed by Microsoft, Best Buy, G4, Spike, and Pepsico since 2006
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2006? Shit, I ate Donkey Kong cereal and watched a 1.5 hour Super Mario Bros 3 commercial passed off as a movie when I was a kid.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
MormaPope said:
To the bolded, one is worse. You not seeing that I guess is where we agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

I'd agree that one is worse than the other. The silent advertising where logos are put on every athlete in the sport, where entire cultures of people are convinced to spend $300 on shoes, where young kids are -- literally -- beaten to death for a pair of shoes that have Michael Jordan's image on them...

Yeah that's a lot worse than Geoff Keighley telling you that eating doritos gets you DEW XP double point codes.

Like it or not, gaming is a huge eco-system. Gaming journalists effect it, NeoGaf effects it, everyday consumers effect it, not giving a shit is fine for you I guess, but blowing off the idea that this system can be altered for better or worst is short sighted to say the least.
Click to expand...

I never espoused that it's unchangeable and I don't think I'm blowing it off. I actually think that we need more advertising and more diverse advertisers, and that we also need more mainstream coverage of games. I've made that point in all of my serious posts in this thread. I think that the real answer is to encourage mainstream outlets, like the New York Times or Wall Street Journal, to cover games for the mainstream, and not to criticize them every time that a WSJ journalist covers a videogame and it doesn't match how we think it should match. Yet, the opposite happens: every time a mainstream journalist covers mainstream gaming, we complain that they're out of touch and don't know what they're talking about. I say "We" as it's the majority opinion here on Le Gaf. The only way to fix the "journalistic" arm of the videogame industry is to be more inclusive of non-mainstream and non-expert coverage of our industry, which we repeatedly scorn and abuse out.
 
O

Oersted

Member
The Albatross said:
I watched it back when this crisis broke... and watched about 2 minutes, more than I'd watch any Geoff Keighley video, and .. seriously couldn't figure out what the outrage was other than the obviously hilarious product placement. He very clearly says, "If you buy Doritos you get codes to use to get double XP." Is he paid to promote this? Yes. Is anybody having the wool pulled over their eyes by this, or tricked in any way...? I personally don't think so.

If people want to call him out to cover videogames I think that's fine, it's your prerogative to see something wrong with it. But I don't think that people who are appalled by this just get that those who cover videogames have very few revenue streams. They have industry mainstays like Mountain Dew, Candy bar companies, and chip makers... maybe deoderant people and what not... And then the videogame companies themselves. And that's it.

Every niche that's covered gets this treatment. Videogames are lucky to have advertising streams like deoderant or soda, because many other hobbies do not get those additional revenue streams.

This question is moot and I'm really just wondering out of curiosity, not to make a point from it. Anybody who is offended/mad/upset/indignant/etc about Keighley doing this. Are you at all influenced by his opinions or by Mountain Dew "DEWXP" codes? Have you ever made a decision based off of Keighley before?
Click to expand...

You keep making points up. Geoff Keighley, introduced as a journalist, referring to himself as a journalist gave a interview. In this interview, he was holding a commercial speech.

You really don´t get it?
 
I

ii Stryker

Banned
The Albatross said:
When people disagree with a point, they also redefine what an "analogy" means. Instead of being a comparison between two things of partial similarity, they want it to be a perfect 1:1, in which case, of course it doesn't match up, that's the point of an analogy.
Click to expand...

People aren't disagreeing with a point. "People" are ranting because they're unable to grasp how the adult world works.

It is a 1:1 comparison in the real world, on GAF, no.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
I don't care too much about him specifically one way or another (I would love more ethical practices across the board in game-related writing across the board, but hey, what can you do?), but it's really kind of sad that he actually THINKS he's a journalist.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
Oersted said:
You keep making points up. Geoff Keighley, introduced as a journalist, referring to himself as a journalist gave a interview. In this interview, he was holding a commercial speech.

You really don´t get it?
Click to expand...

Is "making points up" your way of dealing with other people disagreeing with you? Or are you confusing "making points up" with "making points?"
 
G

GillianSeed79

Member
demosthenes said:
Can anyone summarize what the hell DoritoGate is?
Click to expand...

Stolen from game journalism thread:

Recap from shagg_187
I'll do a short recap:
-Keighley surrounded by doritos followed by gaming bloggers retweeting a hashtag for advertising to win a PS3 makes Florence of Eurogamer curious.
-Florence writes an article saying how things are shady and some sound like straight up PR e.g. Wainright orgasms for everything Squenix.
-MVC/Wainwright send libel threats to Eurogamer, at which the article was edited to remove mentioning of Wainright.
-Wainwright responds in twitter "Apology accepted" and something in the vain of applying her law classes to use.
-Florence either steps down or is forced to resign to avoid any libel threat.
-Both sides deny any threat or are not talking about it directly, but twitter posts hint that such threat existed. Florence is not confirming or denying whether he was fired or he stepped down.
-GAF and 4chan combine forces to see this "standalone complex issue" alongside digital protest from Penny Arcade and more, showing what happened.
-Wainwright's profile shows she is a freelancer for Square Enix. She admitted it and denied doing any reviews for Square Enix or shilling (she is wrong. She reviewed Deus Ex, Tomb Raider and did countless previews).
-All this fiasco is too much for her and she privatize her twitter account. Next thing you know, she starts deleting tweets, videos and articles, and edits her profile to remove any mention of Square Enix freelancing.
-People find some comments of her thanking someone called Korina that used to work at Ubisoft.
-Korina Abbot used to work at Ubisoft and is currently the marketing executive at...Square-Enix.
-David Jaffe offers Keighley Mountain Dew.
-Gaming journalism.
Click to expand...

Wainwright has since been fired BTW. I'm not sure if there are more updates. The journalism thread is like 180 pages long. It's a good read.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
The Albatross said:
I'm actually kidding with those things posting the pictures of Mountain Dew Jet Moto and Teddy Bruschi holding gatorade, mocking the sense of injustice that so many around here feel when Keighley appears with Doritos sponsors. Although one person did say that the Doritos sponsorship leads to unfair scores, which contributes to metacritic scores, which leads to companies greenlighting games. I was making fun of that too.

My actual point is this, from the first part of my post:

"To those who are so offended by Keighley:

Encourage more mainstream journalists (ie, NYT, WSJ, WaPo, Fox News, MSNBC, etc) to cover your games instead of ripping them whenever they have an opinion that doesn't match the Gaf-videogame-elitist-theory."

Generally, if you pull up any thread where mainstream press covers videogames, Gaf collectively loses itself over how none of the mainstream press "gets it." The most current post I remember was some article about the new Modern Warfare game, and it had dozens (hundreds) of posts lampooning this non-industry guy for just being so out of touch when it came to videogames. Here's the thing, he wasn't out of touch, he was representing the overwhelming mainstream that plays games that do share his opinions, and we're so hyper elitist about what entertains him that we all just lost it that any non-insider would even waste his time covering something that he, clearly, knows nothing about.

The result of our exclusivity when it comes to videogame coverage is that those in the industry, those people who do cover videogames have to get their revenue from two places:

a) Video game producers themselves (which are the majority of advertisers, and historically always have been)
b) Key industry advertisers like Mountain Dew, Doritos, Ax body spray, and whatever the other mainstays are.

And then we see this advertising and, again, collectively lose our minds. My point is: We should be happy that it was Doritos -- a non-videogame producer -- advertising and not Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo, AND that we have created this environment by ridiculing mainstream coverage of our cherished hobby.
Click to expand...

I'll actually add to this thought:

- I think that things are better now than they used to be.
 
F

Fudgepuppy

Banned
Hasn't always the industry been pretty financed by Doritos and such, or was it something else than just advertising?

Still find it kinda funny, because Geoff seems like a kinda cool dude, he doesn't seem easily impressed with everything the way many other mainstream journalists do.
 
P

Persona86

Banned
Am I the only one who thinks this whole Doritos crap has been exaggerated to the limit? I feel a bit sorry for him.

I haven't really read much about this crap, just seen the picture and over the top reactions. So I may be missing something.
 
K

KingItachi

Member
Persona86 said:
Am I the only one who thinks this whole Doritos crap has been exaggerated to the limit? I feel a bit sorry for him.

I haven't really read much about this crap, just seen the picture and over the top reactions. So I may be missing something.
Click to expand...

You did not read about it, yet saying it's overblown.
 
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