Can't we just be friends?
Wii U clock speeds are found by marcan
- Thread starter Pooya
- Start date
Can't we just be friends?
JordanN
Banned
That doesn't mean much at all.
More like the perpetual cycle of bullshit will continue. Bashing goes both ways, always has, always will.
DC <-> Marvel
Apple <-> Microsoft
iOS <-> Android
Console A <-> Console B
Etc. Then there are those among us who can either
A) Appreciate both or
B) Stay within their own comfort zone and ignore the rest
Yeah, it's really unfortunate.
I wish we can appreciate both, for example the Wii, it wasn't the best but people treat it like it was the worse console in history of consoles.
Third party games are not important to Nintendo. So in a way you are right.
Both CPU and GPU were weaker I believe. As far as I understand, the initial techdemo were running von V1 kits, which were clocked at 1GH/400MHz, and the V3 kits released a while after E3 had the clocks at 1.25/550.
It really depends on how much of a difference there is between versions - if it's in the typical range of PS3 and Xbox 360 multi-platform titles (with both systems having their stand-out games), then I'd gladly pick the Wii U edition.
I deviate on one point: I hate gyro input with a passion, smartphones as well as NintendoLand swiftly show that there's no fun to be had with that (maybe exceptions for uses like in Skyward Sword).
While this is a bit of a tangent, I see your point: A GTA 5 for example would profit from an easily accessible map on the GamePad (setting waypoints would be a breeze) as well as quicker weapon and menu selection (think of the in-game phone).
Apophis2036
Banned
They won't be able to brute force WiiU out of ports, end of story.
The U has an up to date GPU with 2011 level features, they would literally have to build a console 20x the power of WiiU which would bankrupt Sony and lose MS even more money from their gaming division.
PS4 / 720 will be at most 5x the power of WiiU imho, the U will be more than capable of running 'downports' (most next gen engines are so customizable they will be able to run on the Ipad 5) but ONLY if third parties feel there is a market for those sorts of games on the console.
I don't expect any decent next gen third party support on WiiU, third party publishers can't get over the fact that most Nintendo's first party titles out sells third party games 20 / 30:1. It's been the same story since the SNES, companies have just had good excuses over the years with Cartridges, mini DVD's and then the totally out of date hardware of the original Wii / forced motion control / no decent online.
If you want to play the majority of next gen multi platform games then buy a gaming PC / PS4 / 720.
Looking at the specs, it seems as though this is more of an audience issue than a complete technical feasibility one, which I'm not surprised at.
H_Prestige
Banned
Missed my edit. Yeah, it might be a bit of both (again, I wouldn't be surprised), but more due to the audience. I heavily doubt it's a completely (or even majority) technical issue.
IMO I think the Wii U will get great Eastern support and indie support, the only third party compaiens we should really worry about is the big AAA western companies (other then Ubisoft and Activision).
Joseph Flemming
Member
Nah, people really made the clock speed huge, look here:http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/12/01/nintendo-wii-u-clock-speeds-much-ado-about-nothing/ and here:http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/11/why-you-cant-read-too-much-into-the-wii-us-slow-clock-speed/
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Nah, people really made the clock speed huge, look here:http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/12/01/nintendo-wii-u-clock-speeds-much-ado-about-nothing/ and here:http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/11/why-you-cant-read-too-much-into-the-wii-us-slow-clock-speed/
I'm talking about participants in this thread, I couldn't give a shit about things posted elsewhere on the net as they are often utterly devoid of technical knowledge.
Tears For Fears
Banned
10x.
How doesn't mean much?
JordanN
Banned
We have no idea what the circumstances are. There's also nothing to say the Wii U wont get the same games in the future.
at best it will get severely gimped ports from C-teams. there's no reason to expect otherwise.
H_Prestige
Banned
Yeah, there is nothing. Except for the tech specs.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
And history over 3 generations.
It will depend. If Wii U ends up selling a lot compared to the competition, I doubt C-teams will be the ones to handle the ports. Not saying it's impossible--it's definitely possible--but it's a bit too early to judge (even when looking at who handled launch ports).
You mean aside them working hard to get something valuable on the next sony and ms console?
+ what Gravijah said
JordanN
Banned
Yeah, I'm sure games like Pac-Man 1080p are going to be severely gimped.
Going to miss that tessellated dot. @_@
chertipros
Member
People always make such bold claims early on in a console's life cycle. I wonder if people realize that others people will look back on these posts in a few years and laugh
I think both MS and Sony are going to be a lot more cost conscious this time around. The more we're learning about the Wii U the more I think that Nintendo did well designing around their self-imposed constraints. They didn't want a power-hungry, noisy or intrusive system, they wanted to be able to provide it at ~$300 without taking a huge loss, it needed to significantly improve on the Wii's visuals, and they wanted to pack in a controller with a touchscreen, motion sensors and wireless video streaming. The box we have is the result of all those considerations. Another company with different priorities will obviously do things differently.
It's misleading to say that because an engine can create content for an iPad 5, games made with said engine for PS4 or 720 will be scalable down to iPad 5 (or Wii U). It doesn't work like that.
Nor would the power envelope targeted by games need to be 20x what Wii U can provide in order to rule it out of a port.
The core determinant is what performance levels a game targets. If pubs decide Wii U has to be included, devs will have to work with that target in mind. If pubs decide it doesn't have to be included, it won't be. Devs will be able to make games with 'scalable' engines that can only be feasibly run on high end hardware, or make games that can run from the range of available hardware. It's up to their publisher and then their own ambitions.
I'll also note that Wii U is already losing content because of performance difficulties. And I'm unconvinced that a relative shift in processing load from CPU to GPU with future games will make matters better here. Wii U's GPU is likely going to be outclassed by the others' GPUs by a greater factor than its CPU is by PS3/360. If devs/pubs decide to design with those power levels in mind, particularly in the realm of non-rendering work, it won't be good for Wii U.
In the end I come to the same conclusion as you - but for different reasons. What matters is publisher's decisions - but because it will inform the performance level devs target for their games from the start, not because Wii U could handle a down port anything devs might come up with targeting machines 3 or 4 or 5 times faster and just need a publisher OK to make it happen.
If Wii U is easily scalable/portable from the PS480, then the general third-party support will mostly be dependent on sales. Wii U is already getting leagues better third-party support than Wii, and it's still panned for its third-party support. Wii U will probably never be the lead/main third-party platform across the board, but it doesn't need to be. It just has to keep getting the games, and that'll depend on ROI/sales more than anything else, if it's relatively easy to scale/port to.
Oh now you putting again on the "graphics is useless and the gamepad will give us so much better gameplay than the others" side...
cute.
Fourth Storm
Member
Do you think that Nintendo addressing dev complaints about the CPU resulted in the deal w/ Green Hills? From what I've read, their compiler sounds pretty efficient, and at the point we're talking earlier this year, final silicon would have already been taped out, so it was probably too late for hardware tweaks.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
That's not what it launched with (none of the ports are "severely gimped"), so there's that, at least.
H_Prestige
Banned
I'm pretty sure the Wii got some ps2 ports as well. Didn't really help in the long run.
Which of the launch games are ps4/720 ports?
JordanN
Banned
Judging from some posts in these threads and others, I can say there are those who are letting specs go to their head instead of actually watching modern game design.
It's not the 90's anymore where you really needed every inch of processing power to pull off a respectable game. So seeing the word "gimp" get thrown around so frivolously when the difference could range from "slightly unplayable" to "completely broken" is beyond cringe worthy.
It's not the 90's anymore where you really needed every inch of processing power to pull off a respectable game. So seeing the word "gimp" get thrown around so frivolously when the difference could range from "slightly unplayable" to "completely broken" is beyond cringe worthy.
well that's arguable and more than that you have to consider that are these gimped ports are not from the next gen but from the current one
Why does it sound like you don't want Wii U to get multiplats? Wouldn't you want everyone to enjoy the games?
I'm guessing you misread PS480 as PS360? Not sure what this would mean otherwise.
Edit:
Oh, wait. Are you referring to the fact that the third-party support on Wii U is from last-gen? You do realize that PS480 aren't out yet, right? It could only be getting ports from PS360 gen currently, in this case. Would be like lampooning the Wii for getting PS2 ports if the Wii was released in Nov-2004.
H_Prestige
Banned
I don't know why it sounds like that to you. I'm just keeping it real.
I read it as ps4/720. Wii U has some ps360 ports for launch, analogous to the ps2 ports on Wii.
JordanN
Banned
Oh no, graphics are still important. But I'm not going to go on a rampage because my game of tic tac toe is missing shaders.
What if the new console will have completely different way of playing games compared to the ones already exist and the games on them will be completely unplayable on wiiu (not considering the graphics)?
Also not counting how power really can change the gameplay like games based on physics or with a very complicated AI as the main core
It's not just that post, it's the other posts, for example when someone says "the Wii U will be powerful enough to handle PS4/720 games it's just going to be the publisher's choice to do it" You keep pushing that idea off.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
At this point I wouldnt want a developer to even have that slight buzz in his head that says anything to the "Don't go too crazy with this game's raw performance requirements, marketing wants a WiiU version to not be too gimped" effect. I want everything to push those new boxes to the metal, be that just through IQ and 60fps, or with whatever crazy AI, destructability and more next-gen will bring.
There was a great fear in 2007 that the Wii's popularity would result in most things shooting for that first and going up-port to HD second, but that thankfully didnt happen. The same applies here really with a system thats looking around 1.25x the current twins hopefully not becoming the cement boots on any title getting dev'd for boxes looking to jump 2x, 3x, or 4x beyond.
Even after you were throwing around the whole "cheap" term in reference to Wii U's hardware, it was amusing how easily you took wsippel's "bait". Not that I care too much, but I did chuckled a bit at that one.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
Aren't Sony and Microsoft essentially locked into some version of the prisoners' dilemma? If they both build big beastly machines, third party support will inevitably gravitate towards the 2/3 machines with similar power. But if only one of them bets on a huge loss leading behemoth but the other hedges and sticks to a moderate U styled upgrade, the one who went with power gets shafted, no?
Obviously this is of more concern to Sony.
Obviously this is of more concern to Sony.
JordanN
Banned
Completely new, like what? Alot of today's core gameplay can be recreated on Gamecube level hardware.
It's maybe only open world games that truly benefit but then you have to consider the genre still isn't perfected yet. So it's like improvements ontop of improvements instead of a massive shift in how we play.
Even stuff like physics and AI aren't massive game changers. A building crumbling in 500 different ways isn't always going to make a FPS a better game.
H_Prestige
Banned
Because it's not true. Unless you think most ps4/720 games will be graphical duds.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
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But why do you find it so hard to believe that the Wii U would be able to handle PS4/720 multiplats? Will it run it just as good? No but it's very possible it will be able to handle the games unlike the Wii.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
There was a rumour earlier this year that some of the larger 3rd parties/publishers have pushed Sony & MS to target both similar performance and similar architectures as a way of curbing some of the cost increases expected for next gen development. How successful they would be with that if true would be another matter though obviously.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
I know it can be very tempting to employ sarcasm when dealing with ill founded optimism, but it serves one well to keep it under control. There was nothing like a tri-core, 45nm CPU with 32mb of eDRAM (on the topology present in the Wii U) available in consumer electronics in 1999. The CPU is relatively balanced with the rest of the system. It is also vastly more efficient than those it's currently competing against, matching them in performance whilst running at only a bit more than a third of their clock. In fact, if the 1999 architecture you decry so much was holding it back so much, it would be clocked much higher, a la P4 to P3. You seem to be criticising one part of the system for not meeting a benchmark that the system as a whole was never aiming for.
It's important to bear in mind that even at 100mhz the Wii U GPU would crush the one in the Wii and Gamecube. One thing that keeps me from agreeing with those who call this system a repeat of the Wii is that doing so underestimates just how slow and outdated the Wii's GPU was. Ignoring the lack of compatibility with any modern shader models, if the GPU in the next Xbox was to have a similar computational advantage over the Wii U as the 360 did over the Wii it would weigh in in the 6 to 10TF range.
You seem to be very enthusiastic about this topic, but I suggest you do some reading and research in your spare time to more fully enhance your understanding and enjoyment when discussing it.