'If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.'
Star Trek Into Darkness - Official poster revealed, teaser trailer now online
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'If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.'
Anticitizen One
Banned
Khan is to Star Trek what Joker is to Batman
Technosteve
Banned
This movie is probably the first movie where everyone from the TNG cast was horrible.
I don't agree it's strongly pointing at Mitchell.
Mitchell has godlike powers. The villain in this movie was shooting Klingons with arm phasers and leaps a great distance. Mitchell doesn't need phasers. Also, the villain gets in a fist fight with Kirk it appears, Mitchell wouldn't be beaten by being punched.
I think it'll be a Khan-era superman from Botany Bay, but not Khan. Or at least, that's what I'm hoping for. I really, really don't want Mitchell because I feel like this reboot is their chance to get away from godly beings storylines. Also, I really want them to make people think about the pros and cons of eugenics so it isn't just a pure action flick.
Mitchell has godlike powers. The villain in this movie was shooting Klingons with arm phasers and leaps a great distance. Mitchell doesn't need phasers. Also, the villain gets in a fist fight with Kirk it appears, Mitchell wouldn't be beaten by being punched.
I think it'll be a Khan-era superman from Botany Bay, but not Khan. Or at least, that's what I'm hoping for. I really, really don't want Mitchell because I feel like this reboot is their chance to get away from godly beings storylines. Also, I really want them to make people think about the pros and cons of eugenics so it isn't just a pure action flick.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I never really watch TOS, but I watched a ton of TNG and Voyager when I was a kid. TNG was fucking awesome. Love the JJ film.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Know what would be cool, if it's NOMAD. Be a very neat re-imagining of the weapon, as a human like android.
Nah. Khan was just a great villain and they were smart to only use him twice. He's so memorable, and was never overused. Compare that to Q, who just became more comical and less threatening with each appearance (except for the TNG finale, where he had that nice menacing feel to him like in the pilot). He wasn't very good in DS9, and the Voyager appearances were awful.
Nah. Khan was just a great villain and they were smart to only use him twice. He's so memorable, and was never overused. Compare that to Q, who just became more comical and less threatening with each appearance (except for the TNG finale, where he had that nice menacing feel to him like in the pilot). He wasn't very good in DS9, and the Voyager appearances were awful.
Sapiens
Member
Anything would be better than Bana's character in ST09, at this point.
They never really convinced me that I need to give a shit about him. And when it comes to Trek, I think one of the best things you can do is make us sympathize with the villain, no matter how evil he or she may be.
This is why I never got into villains like The Borg. They were just an evil machine. Nothing else there.
Bennerdicht's casting is a really, really good sign. But still, same old hackey writers. Here's hoping Abrhams does something great with it.
Wrong. That would be Q. Replace Q with any trickster-god type character the series has used, of course.
If they do treat the comic as canon and Gary Mitchell revives from the dead and returns as a vengeful god, ugh.
SpaceHorror
Member
I've fine with her being Carol Marcus. But I really hope he isn't Khan.
I know they'll probably get to him eventually, but I wish they would just leave him alone.
Some of those aren't plot holes though. The Enterprise is being taken over, they don't have access to sickbay... how and when do those circumstances give the main characters any chances to save the crew?
Furthermore, without totally derailing this discussion, the difference is, I can forgive plot holes if it's in service of good acting, good character-interaction, and ultimately a good theme. Yes, the movie is a little inconsistent with Picard with established canon, but it was in pursuit of an interesting concept for his character (a concept they should have explored in the series but dropped because TV wasn't as serialized as it is now). It took him to an interesting place, because he's normally stoic and it was refreshing to see him out of his element and realize he had gone too far.
There was a greater sense of camaraderie in the film than ST09 could ever dream of, and justifiably so. There's a reason why they started with shows first then movies, because it's the only way to make such a large cast work. The Abrams films are always going to be rushjob one-note character studies because they need to sacrifice that in favor of the spectacle that has barely an original idea in it.
The fact that we're discussing which already-established canon villain is the bad guy in this one just sums up how creatively bankrupt this whole enterprise is.
Okay, that pun wasn't intentional.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Benedict Cumberbatch is Harry Mudd, and he's come for his womens.
The dune buggies? That was horrible, horrible, horrible.
Picard has been shown repeatedly on TNG to be a cultured man, he loves reading and music and archaeology. He's not about monster trucks.
Also, where the heck did Shinzon find ANOTHER Data model, and if his goal was to capture Picard alive, why would he put it on a planet with aliens with machine guns that try to kill anyone they encounter?
Those brits sure like to stand around on rooftops
Earth, Star Fleet... this is where they made us.
You're thinking of Nemesis.
I'm not saying save the assimilated crew on the spot. I mean, don't kill them and wait it out. If they win and stop the Borg, they'll have time to save those crewman afterwards. They didn't immediately save Picard when he was assimilated, he spent some time as a Borg. Seven of Nine was a Borg for 20 years and they could still save her.
Picard executing his assimilated crew when they were barely assimilated was basically homicidal.
SpaceHorror
Member
You're thinking about that abomination Nemesis.
Insurrection is my favorite of the the TNG movies. It's more like an average two part TNG episode. Not very cinematic, but hey, I'll take a half ass TNG episode over Nemesis.
I think you just don't want it to be Mitchell.
You're right. Nemesis was so bad.
First Contact was clearly the best TNG movie but it wasn't that good.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Did someone else just look up the Memory Alpha article on Where No Man Has Gone Before?
TrumanBurbank
Member
Know the name of the ridiculously attractive girl?
But you're changing the whole circumstances of the situation on the ship. There weren't any alternatives presented in the movie. They had to stop the Borg from spreading (because they were expanding for a good portion of the movie until they stopped). The only way to save anyone (including themselves) is to eventually get the ship back. It's not like they had backup or other ships that could conceivably help.
Though I suspect we'll just have to agree to disagree here.
Fair enough, but you'd think Picard would have more sympathy towards the idea of rescuing them from the Borg later considering that he went through that himself.
Yep, I don't. I'd rather a brand new villain than Mitchell. I have never liked godly beings in Star Trek and I'd prefer they leave them out of this new universe.
I agree that's a contradiction, but at the very least it's posed in the movie itself. Picard loses his shit in the movie and gets called out for it; it's not like they sweep it under the rug. I think the story arc is an interesting character direction in service of exploring a greater idea; someone else can think that's a betrayal of what he stands for. That's fine, and I totally understand it.
Technosteve
Banned
So the conclusion i make is none of the TNG movies were "great"
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Did someone else just look up the Memory Alpha article on Where No Man Has Gone Before?
No, why? I was just thinking of some random TOS villain .
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
First Contact had problems, but it's generally very well regarded by fans and considered to be one of the more accessible of the films to non-fans.
Anticitizen One
Banned
maybe the villian is a fresh take on Picard
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh, I just looked it up today and it references Mudd's Women as one of the three episodes (alongside Where No Man Has Gone Before and another) as the three considered for the second pilot, with NMHGB winning out
2 and 6 were the best, 4 was the most fun of the first 10, 8 was the best TNG but not great IMO.
ST09 is the new most fun and was better than all the TNG movies IMO, but 2 and 6 are still better.
I think 6 is still the best movie of them all. It's about people being rigid in changing times and it's about warriors who don't know how to do anything but fight even when there is no war.
SpaceHorror
Member
Also, the official description really makes it sound like Mitchell.
Khan was never a Starfleet officer. Mitchell was.
Also, the whole "one man weapon of mass destruction" part really sounds like a man who has become god-like, which is what Where No Man Has Gone Before is all about.
Again, that doesn't fit Khan at all. Yeah, Khan is a superhuman and he is also ruthlessly intelligent and capable of of such things. But I'd never describe him as a "one man weapon of mass destruction." Khan always used his superior cunning to inflict destruction. He led other people to help him fulfill his cause.
Of course, maybe it isn't him. But it fits.
Khan was never a Starfleet officer. Mitchell was.
Also, the whole "one man weapon of mass destruction" part really sounds like a man who has become god-like, which is what Where No Man Has Gone Before is all about.
Again, that doesn't fit Khan at all. Yeah, Khan is a superhuman and he is also ruthlessly intelligent and capable of of such things. But I'd never describe him as a "one man weapon of mass destruction." Khan always used his superior cunning to inflict destruction. He led other people to help him fulfill his cause.
Of course, maybe it isn't him. But it fits.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I never knew that. I thought it was always intended to be WNMHGB.
Khan was a better villain and is more realistic. Mitchell was throwaway, most people didn't even remember him until the speculation about him being in this movie caused us to look him up. Yes maybe Khan (or one of his men) weren't in Starfleet, but maybe he joins it when first revived. Also, The Joker and Bane were "one man weapon of mass destruction" type guys and they had no special powers.
Anticitizen One
Banned
I think its all red herring and he's playing a brand new villian with elements of Khan, Mitchell, etc.
It's already explicitly confirmed that the villain is part of existing canon, it's not a new character.
You should also bold the personal score to settle, which fits Mitchell perfectly but not Khan.
That. If it's Mitchell, he has to have more powers, but that makes it unrealistic to ever beat him (nevermind him existing). If it's a superhuman, they can be beaten and it fits more with the physical strength demonstrated in the teaser.
Also, if crossing the galactic barrier turns you into a god, wouldn't a bunch of people try to do it once word got out? What would you do about hundreds of Gary Mitchells?
We don't know that that's all he does. If they showed his psionic powers right off the bat there wouldn't be any mystery.
lastplayed
Member
Maybe he's an angry David Marcus from the future with the Genesis device.
I know it's hard to believe, but I think all of this was true of Khan before TWoK too. Space Seed is a good episode, but it's not as incredible as the post-film lenses suggest.
I think there's even interviews with some of the key people in TWoK where they talk about how they combed through the episodes looking for an anchor and eventually settled on Khan. There was no real drive to revisit him.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
EDIT: I should learn to count...
Could be. Androids are stronger than humans. They didn't have androids in TOS did they?
lastplayed
Member
No, just... no.
It was a terrible story with more plot holes than Star Trek V, a horrible villain (made even worse because it was a waste of Malcolm McDowell). The lack of a budget was obvious when they could not even afford the right uniforms for everyone. They reused the SFX from the climax of the previous film (Bird of Prey explosion). They killed an icon of Trek in a pathetic manner.
Only good thing about Generations was the impressive Saucer Section crash sequence.
Erm, 8 was First Contact.
Not to mention what happened to the Borg by the end of Voyager.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Well shit...
No, just... no.
It was a terrible story with more plot holes than Star Trek V, a horrible villain (made even worse because it was a waste of Malcolm McDowell). The lack of a budget was obvious when they could not even afford the right uniforms for everyone. They reused the SFX from the climax of the previous film (Bird of Prey explosion). They killed an icon of Trek in a pathetic manner.
Only good thing about Generations was the impressive Saucer Section crash sequence.
Um, Generations was 7.
First Contact is 8.
Heh. Was about to say.
*cough* which was the natural outcome of First Contact. *cough*
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