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The Dark Knight Rises |OT2| The Legend... Continues

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effzee said:
Those who didn't like the movie have been harping on the same points over and over for almost 6 months now. There is nothing new or factual to address. Nothing I say will make someone like something they don't. What worked for me didn't work for them.

The fact that you or they need to keep telling those who liked the movie that its because we don't enjoy good cinema is truly the obnoxious idiotic things on this forum. Get over yourself. Any and all movies can be picked apart when you start analyzing every single element and scene, especially action movies.

For example I enjoyed Skyfall but I could pick apart the logic and scene by scene mistakes if I really cared to. What it comes down to is that people who enjoyed it can look past the things which people keep harping on. And those same people who didn't like it conveniently ignore similar issues in other movies because they enjoyed the overall product.

You either didn't like it or liked it. What do you want pro Batman 3 to do? Not participate in this thread? And you do realize this is OT#3 for this movie right? And that to get to that a lot of people had to like the movie or else it would have just been the same 5-10 guys? That outside of the usual group of "experts", majority of people liked the movie? That it did really well commercially and critically right? But yeah they must all be part of pro Batman 3 or something.
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Great post, effzee. Last couple of pages are just brutal hate.
 
Theres something about her manic over-sized features that rub me the wrong way.

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effzee said:
Those who didn't like the movie have been harping on the same points over and over for almost 6 months now. There is nothing new or factual to address. Nothing I say will make someone like something they don't. What worked for me didn't work for them.

The fact that you or they need to keep telling those who liked the movie that its because we don't enjoy good cinema is truly the obnoxious idiotic things on this forum. Get over yourself. Any and all movies can be picked apart when you start analyzing every single element and scene, especially action movies.

For example I enjoyed Skyfall but I could pick apart the logic and scene by scene mistakes if I really cared to. What it comes down to is that people who enjoyed it can look past the things which people keep harping on. And those same people who didn't like it conveniently ignore similar issues in other movies because they enjoyed the overall product.

You either didn't like it or liked it. What do you want pro Batman 3 to do? Not participate in this thread? And you do realize this is OT#3 for this movie right? And that to get to that a lot of people had to like the movie or else it would have just been the same 5-10 guys? That outside of the usual group of "experts", majority of people liked the movie? That it did really well commercially and critically right? But yeah they must all be part of pro Batman 3 or something.
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You don't understand. You guys are Batman, we are the Joker. You NEED us.

This thread without the haters would be like the Occupy Wall street thread without Manos. Useless, dead and constantly on the second page. We keep this thread alive through debate and pointless back and forth. This movie was pure crap and I want you all to know it. It was hands down one of Nolan's worst right up there with Inception (a boring version of Eternal Sunshine) and if we don't tell you that, no one will. And if we weren't here telling you that then what would this thread be?

"Oh look guys I has the DVD now. Just watched. Still super cool and I still like it for some bizarre reason. Man these action scenes are shot so realistically. Really adds to it. Who else here hates Avengers? I hate Avengers."

"Yea me toZZZzzzz-zzZZZzzzzzz-zzzzzz"

Just take it.
 
I don't understand those who hate the "haters". It's clear most of the people here like Batman too, otherwise they wouldn't be here. People like effzee who just want haters to go, fair enough, but what will you discuss then? There's little to discuss when everyone agrees, the thread would go into oblivion. You might as well just kill the thread, if some of you can't take people who disagree with you.
 
watershed said:
This is something they did a particularly bad job with in TDKR. In TDK it seemed like people actually used guns like guns. In the end hostage/clowns sequence it looks like people actually try to shoot Batman. In TDKR they all run up to him instead of just pulling the trigger.
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Even better was the scene with all the cops marching towards Bane's guys. Bane's men had automatic weapons while the cops had pistols and batons. So instead of a massacre where all the cops get mowed down, Bane's guys shoot a few time and then run towards the cops and start to melee. That was just bad directing.

Ask the guys who ran out of trenches towards machine gun nest across open fields in WWI how well that works in real life.
 
Charles Foster Kane said:
I don't understand those who hate the "haters". It's clear we like Batman too, otherwise we wouldn't be here. People like effzee who just want us to go, fair enough, but what will you discuss then? There's little to discuss when everyone agrees, the thread would go into oblivion. You might as well just kill the thread, if some of you can't take people who disagree with you.
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Then we're in agreement.

This thread must die.
 
I haven't seen any good counter arguments to criticisms. All I saw was "It's the same as other terrible movies! Don't you watch those?" and "I personally didn't even notice how profoundly irrational and incoherent that was, so most people probably didn't and you're too sensitive/over-analytical!"

Sorry that I expect Batman to be a little more than Sad Bro With Gadgets.
 
Dice said:
I haven't seen any good counter arguments to criticisms. All I saw was "It's the same as other terrible movies! Don't you watch those?" and "I personally didn't even notice how profoundly irrational and incoherent that was, so most people probably didn't and you're too sensitive/over-analytical!"
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I watched that Honest Trailer of it and most of it seemed like they only gave the movie a cursory glance. Like Bruce "revealing" he was Batman to Blake. Uh, Blake figured it out like 30 minutes earlier. It was in the movie.

I mostly dug it because it was unlike a superhero movie. Bruce is in a prison for like an hour! Off screen for like twenty minutes! That was so crazy and great and, most importantly, critical to the story. It was about the heart and soul of Gotham, which Batman is only a part of.
 
Eidan said:
Then we're in agreement.

This thread must die.
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BenjaminBirdie said:
I watched that Honest Trailer of it and most of it seemed like they only gave the movie a cursory glance. Like Bruce "revealing" he was Batman to Blake. Uh, Blake figured it out like 30 minutes earlier. It was in the movie.
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Understandable, but that was kind of dumb. Not everyone is the same, why couldn't he assume Bruce was happy? After all Blake said they made up stories about him, were those stories about what a depressing character he should be? Was Bruce supposed to bring down the kids at the orphanage when he visited them? I know it's shallow, but he was filthy rich, what made Blake think he couldn't possibly be happy? He could have even been in therapy that helped him. Again, not all people are the same. Maybe it was just that Blake was taking a wild guess and Bruce was dumb enough to bite. After all Blake WAS a stranger. Bruce should have known better. He could have been easily deceived (like the other 100 times he was)
 
Charles Foster Kane said:
Understandable, but that was kind of dumb. Not everyone is the same, why couldn't he assume Bruce was happy? After all Blake said they made up stories about him, were those stories about what a depressing character he should be? Was Bruce supposed to bring down the kids at the orphanage when he visited them? I know it's shallow, but he was filthy rich, what made Blake think he couldn't possibly be happy? He could have even been in therapy that helped him, not all people are the same. That whole scene was so stupid to me.
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The opposite is just as likely. What made Bruce think he could hide what was really inside him? Masks, hiding your true self, is one of the most important themes of the whole trilogy. I loved that scene. It was such a wonderful way to have Blake figure it out. Not because of some clue or some exposition. Just because of their shared experience. It also made the final shot so fantastic.

Man, what an awesome movie.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
The opposite is just as likely. What made Bruce think he could hide what was really inside him? Masks, hiding your true self, is one of the most important themes of the whole trilogy. I loved that scene. It was such a wonderful way to have Blake figure it out. Not because of some clue or some exposition. Just because of their shared experience. It also made the final shot so fantastic.

Man, what an awesome movie.
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To me it was a way to shove Blake down our throats and force him into a main character.
 
Charles Foster Kane said:
To me it was a way to shove Blake down our throats and force him into a main character.
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He was part of Gotham, a key aspect of it. I mean, I can see sort of feeling burned because Batman's on all the poster's and what not but by the time Rises came out, Nolan has made it crystal clear that this is a trilogy about the city just as much (more, if you ask me) as it is about Bruce Wayne.
 
I never read these threads because I assumed Gaf had a raging hard on for this movie, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this movie is a drawn out, bloated, ridiculous mess of a movie.
 
Bear in mind, Terrence Malick is one of my favorite directors, so Nolan's love of "and now I'm just going to blatantly jam the bare message that I feel like I failed to convey with my heavy-handed circumstantial metaphors down your throat in a boring monologue" which happens 4-5 times a movie tends to bother me. I've been watching LOTR again and even its *cue inspiring speech over montage* or "let's whisper about what makes that other guy tick" scenes are at least twice as natural and five times as meaningful. Even so, I never raised those complaints. I only truly have a problem with how irrational and stupid every single person in the film is. Just... impossibly dumb.

As for this difference, I wonder about some viewers being intuitive people and some being speech people. Aside from Malick films, I also like things such as Lost in Translation, A Love Song for Bobby Long, The Station Agent, Up in the Air, Michael Clayton, etc. I've spoken to plenty of people who didn't like them and complained there was too little plot or character development or it didn't make sense to them, which shocked me. Remembering this and at least one TDKR hater speaking of Eternal Sunshine in a positive manner, I feel that maybe some people just pick up nothing from a character unless it is stated bluntly, so Nolan's style of movie is the hammer to ring their bell, so to speak.
 
effzee said:
How about you stop assuming what exists or doesn't exist in my world?

How about you be smart enough to realize that I and many others really liked the movie. Nothing you say will take away from that experience and enjoyment. And I am not alone, nor the minority.

You didn't like it. Good for you. Nothing I say to defend the movie will change your mind. Unless you were stupid enough to not get some of the points people seemed to have missed, like the ending being real and not a dream. That I can defend or clear up.




LOL. Defend my position? Have you read this thread? Or the other two? Who the hell are you anyway for me to have to defend my position? How about you post your opinions without being a condescending prick trying to push you OPINION as fact on something where no factual consensus can be reached.



Its not the OT #3 solely because its divisive. TDK was divisive on GAF as well.


I have brought up commercial and CRITICAL success which you selectively decided not to read. Or a complete moron. How about you just post your opinion and leave it at that? Without dictating to those who don't seem to have the same opinion as you. LOL comparing it to Twilight. And by my own statements you can't ever reach an objective factual consensus on any movie, but you can come close when a movie does well both commercially and critically.

EDIT: LOL@ Nolan never getting an Oscar. It won't be for this movie and personally he should have been nominated for Inception, but assuming his movies from here on won't be superhero movies (which I doubt will ever be considered for anything more than technical awards and acting performances), he has plenty of time and opportunity to get an Oscar.
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lol but seriously why did Batman jump from a standstill?

Iy15s.png
 
Dice said:
Bear in mind, Terrence Malick is one of my favorite directors, so Nolan's love of "and now I'm just going to blatantly jam the bare message that I feel like I failed to convey with my heavy-handed circumstantial metaphors down your throat in a boring monologue" which happens 4-5 times a movie tends to bother me. I've been watching LOTR again and even its *cue inspiring speech over montage* or "let's whisper about what makes that other guy tick" scenes are at least twice as natural and five times as meaningful. Even so, I never raised those complaints. I only truly have a problem with how irrational and stupid every single person in the film is. Just... impossibly dumb.

As for this difference, I wonder about some viewers being intuitive people and some being speech people. Aside from Malick films, I also like things such as Lost in Translation, A Love Song for Bobby Long, The Station Agent, Up in the Air, Michael Clayton, etc. I've spoken to plenty of people who didn't like them and complained there was too little plot or character development or it didn't make sense to them, which shocked me. Remembering this and at least one TDKR hater speaking of Eternal Sunshine in a positive manner, I feel that maybe some people just pick up nothing from a character unless it is stated bluntly, so Nolan's style of movie is the hammer to ring their bell, so to speak.
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Your entire post is about denigrating the intelligence of a whole audience of people because they liked a movie that you didn't. Do you see why some people might not give a damn about whatever points you raise against the film, and why you might not be worth responding to?
 
Oh wait effzee! I think I can answer my own question.

cBsN6.png


It's critical reception! It's like the wild card in Uno, it works on everything!
 
Blader5489 said:
Your entire post is about denigrating the intelligence of a whole audience of people because they liked a movie that you didn't. Do you see why some people might not give a damn about whatever points you raise against the film, and why you might not be worth responding to?
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They rejected my points long before I got to that post.

Anyway, it isn't about level of intelligence, it's about intelligence type. Not all people function the same way, and there are weaknesses to being an intuitive type (lack of exactness, sometimes seeing things that aren't there) so I don't see why it's a rude thing to point out. Often intuitive types are good at connecting scattered points to see a pattern but not so good at linear reasoning. However, if the linear reasoning isn't so complex that it speeds past them, it can seem far too blunt. To them a character can't just be said to be this or that, but it really has to be expressed in all their persona and make sense in context to their surroundings and reactions to things.

That's why I like Malick characters. They have monologues, too, yet mostly in themselves. The things they ponder and express are so deeply connected to everything else in the film, and he weaves these together in fantastic thematic explorations. The downside is you just have to analyze and take a guess as what precisely he wants to convey, and it might be off. So maybe the people who don't naturally find patterns to convey the whole would want a person just to say it already and would be as bored as I am with Nolan's explanatory scenes. They may also take the logical trajectory of thought in them and carry to many more applications to themselves and life whereas I would stop.

Sensory vs speaking is nothing new.
 
Dice said:
They rejected my points long before I got to that post.

Anyway, it isn't about level of intelligence, it's about intelligence type. Not all people function the same way, and there are weaknesses to being an intuitive type (lack of exactness, sometimes seeing things that aren't there) so I don't see why it's a rude thing to point out. Often intuitive types are good at connecting scattered points to see a pattern but not so good at linear reasoning. However, if the linear reasoning isn't so complex that it speeds past them, it can seem far too blunt. To them a character can't just be said to be this or that, but it really has to be expressed in all their persona and make sense in context to their surroundings and reactions to things.

That's why I like Malick characters. They have monologues, too, yet mostly in themselves. The things they ponder and express are so deeply connected to everything else in the film, and he weaves these together in fantastic thematic explorations. The downside is you just have to analyze and take a guess as what precisely he wants to convey, and it might be off. So maybe the people who don't naturally find patterns to convey the whole would want a person just to say it already and would be as bored as I am with Nolan's explanatory scenes. They may also take the logical trajectory of thought in them and carry to many more applications to themselves and life whereas I would stop.

Sensory vs speaking is nothing new.
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Sorry, but the monologues in Malick films are just as anvillated. "What is this war?"

Just because one movie is about something definitive and the other other is about questioning something, doesn't make the execution of the latter better than the former. Yes, I think Malick is better filmmaker than Nolan but certainly not because his techniques are subtler.
 
Dice said:
They rejected my points long before I got to that post.

Anyway, it isn't about level of intelligence, it's about intelligence type. Not all people function the same way, and there are weaknesses to being an intuitive type (lack of exactness, sometimes seeing things that aren't there) so I don't see why it's a rude thing to point out. Often intuitive types are good at connecting scattered points to see a pattern but not so good at linear reasoning. However, if the linear reasoning isn't so complex that it speeds past them, it can seem far too blunt. To them a character can't just be said to be this or that, it really has to be expressed in all their persona and make sense in context to their surroundings.

That's why I like Malick characters. They have monologues, too, yet mostly in themselves. However, the things they ponder and express are so deeply connected to everything else in the film, and he weaves these together in fantastic thematic explorations. The downside is you just have to analyze and take a guess as what precisely he wants to convey, and it might be off. So maybe the people who don't naturally find patterns to convey the whole would want a person just to say it already and would be as bored as I am with Nolan's explanatory scenes.
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There's nothing subtle about the monologues in Malick's films, especially the Tree of Life, where those greater thematic patterns you're talking about couldn't be made more obvious.

For what it's worth, I love both Nolan and Malick's work.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Just because one movie is about something definitive and the other other is about questioning something, doesn't make the execution of the latter better than the former.
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Was I speaking of better or worse with that post, or was I speaking of viewer preferences?

Dice said:
Even so, I never raised those complaints. I only truly have a problem with how irrational and stupid every single person in the film is. Just... impossibly dumb.
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:p

Scullibundo said:
Also, have we seriously got people in here comparing Nolan to Malick?
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I know, it makes me feel dirty.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
The opposite is just as likely. What made Bruce think he could hide what was really inside him? Masks, hiding your true self, is one of the most important themes of the whole trilogy. I loved that scene. It was such a wonderful way to have Blake figure it out. Not because of some clue or some exposition. Just because of their shared experience. It also made the final shot so fantastic.

Man, what an awesome movie.
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I like the scene as well. I love Bale's reaction when Blake is talking about "moving on." Kindred spirits.
 
I would like to take the time to mention the things about The Dark Knight Rises that I appreciated and enjoyed because well, they're worth mentioning. That and I don't want anyone to think that just because I didn't like the overall film that I have this narrow and blinding condition preventing me from seeing it's merits.

I thought the decision to have no music during the underground Bane Vs. Batman fight was a smart choice. It felt like it really heightened your senses, the shuffling of their boots beneath them, the dull thuds of fists striking one another, you could hear it all. Also the cuts to the faces of the guards looking on. You could feel them wincing, it really sold the brutality.

I liked the idea of relating Batman's drive to fight for Gotham as an unhealthy addiction, and exploring what Bruce has in his life beyond the struggle. I also found the idea of Bruce wanting to destroy himself, as Alfred insisted, fascinating.

If I can think of more I'll post them.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
He was part of Gotham, a key aspect of it. I mean, I can see sort of feeling burned because Batman's on all the poster's and what not but by the time Rises came out, Nolan has made it crystal clear that this is a trilogy about the city just as much (more, if you ask me) as it is about Bruce Wayne.
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Maybe, I just didn't like his character very much, not that he's terrible.

Anth0ny said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE
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Awesome! Thanks. lol
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Sorry, but the monologues in Malick films are just as anvillated. "What is this war?"

Just because one movie is about something definitive and the other other is about questioning something, doesn't make the execution of the latter better than the former. Yes, I think Malick is better filmmaker than Nolan but certainly not because his techniques are subtler.
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This. Also, on one end of the expository spectrum, you have Nolan's various characters hitting us over the head, and on the other you have guys like Sean Penn in The Tree of Life, who literally serve no purpose other than some weak as shit narrative framing.
 
AgentP said:
Even better was the scene with all the cops marching towards Bane's guys. Bane's men had automatic weapons while the cops had pistols and batons. So instead of a massacre where all the cops get mowed down, Bane's guys shoot a few time and then run towards the cops and start to melee. That was just bad directing.

Ask the guys who ran out of trenches towards machine gun nest across open fields in WWI how well that works in real life.
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That scene was definitely the worst example of people not using guns like guns. When I first saw a clip of that in the trailer I thought Batman would have some tech to mess up guns or it would be Gotham citizens fighting each other in a brother on brother kind of way so that they wouldn't want to kill each other.

It turns out Nolan just really wanted to do a LOTR style charge sequence and it wasn't any good anyways. You can see the same issue when Batman rescues Blake and a bit with Catwoman and Batman on the rooftop. They just did a poor job of disguising the would-be effectiveness of guns this time around.
 
AgentP said:
Even better was the scene with all the cops marching towards Bane's guys. Bane's men had automatic weapons while the cops had pistols and batons. So instead of a massacre where all the cops get mowed down, Bane's guys shoot a few time and then run towards the cops and start to melee. That was just bad directing.

Ask the guys who ran out of trenches towards machine gun nest across open fields in WWI how well that works in real life.
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Well not all of them had automatic weapons, and the street was only but so wide. So the men with automatics were placed in front, emptied their clips and that was it.
 
People have different tastes? Revelatory.


I happen to like Jeunet movies more than either Malick or Nolan. Fuck your metaphors and your slick as shit movies, visual creativity is where it is at :P
 
LeBrick James said:
Well not all of them had automatic weapons, and the street was only but so wide. So the men with automatics were placed in front, emptied their clips and that was it.
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Come on. They thought it looked cool, but didn't think it through beyond "we'll just have a street charge, because it'll be epic."

It's okay to give some ground on things as obvious as this; it doesn't mean you're admitting the movie sucked.
 
Tookay said:
Come on. They thought it looked cool, but didn't think it through beyond "we'll just have a street charge, because it'll be epic."

It's okay to give some ground on things as obvious as this; it doesn't mean you're admitting the movie sucked.
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This is true, but what I said is also true. There's nothing outrageous about how that played out.
 
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