LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Illegal guns are manufactured legally. Illegal drugs are manufactured illegally. That's the point.
Would increased gun regulation have prevented Connecticut?
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Illegal guns are manufactured legally. Illegal drugs are manufactured illegally. That's the point.
Oppo
Member
Do you mean that America has areas of high population density, and also a large population?
Does anybody have a clue on India and China's homicide rates?
EmCeeGramr
Member
But that's the only effective solution, reducing guns in the wild. Without reducing guns in the wild you're not really doing anything.
well, the comparison you are imagining i made is dumb. the actual comparison that matters is availability, not how easy to make in your basement something is.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Did you notice that the word "rioters" is in plural? Yes, roving gangs of machete-wielding killers is very tough to stop.
jamesinclair
Banned
Is it fair to say that as the NRA has watered down gun laws in the past decade....
The incidents of gun crimes have increased?
The incidents of gun crimes have increased?
Angry Fork
Member
This is the reason.
There are countries with high gun ownership and tiny to no gun murder. It is psychological and problems with class/social structure. The drug war and lack of strong safety net is to blame as well.
I'm in favor of banning unnecessary exotic weapons and only allowing pistols for home self defense, but this would be a pointless endeavor if you don't start with how society functions, how americans treat each other, the objectivist outlook on life a lot of people have and so on.
this actually has happened.
not very often though, considerably less common than large scale spree shootings i'd say.
it's not.
Nope. Don't need to kill anyone.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
The difference between Semi auto and full auto firearms, is that a semi auto is designed to discharge one (1) round for every time the trigger is pulled, where the Full auto will fire multiple rounds with each depression of the trigger. however the term "auto" generally refers to any firearm that is mechanically designed to automatically chamber a round after one is fired. thus to differentiate it from lever-action, Bolt-action, revolver, single-shot, so on and so forth, hope that was clear.
It's worse now than it ever was with them. They have way to much political influence and everyone is too scared to challenge them.
Very low.
Interesting interactive map(s). % of homicides by firearm is very interesting.
Obviously no one can fuck with Colombia.
How could you possibly know that?
By "in the wild" I meant already-legally-purchased-and-owned. Like your examples of a parent having one in the house.
If a mentally ill person can legally obtain a gun (i.e.: purchase one) of any kind and goes on to use that gun to commit murder even in a single case, that is all the reason necessary to enact stricter regulation.
I was wondering this before, is there anywhere I can get statistics on this- I am very curious as to the ratio (prevented/interrupted massacres vs. total) so as to accurately frame the debate.
Sorry if that was meant as a joke, but they are semi-auto.
Niiiiiice. You got us bro. I've TOTALLY murdered lots of people with my 4 firearms.
No idea. Overall crime has decreased, I honestly have run the number for gun crime alone though.
You're welcome to check the FBI's crime in the united states report over the last couple decades though.
In a hypothetical scenario where an untrained person is going on a high body count murder spree, you'd likely want to give them a semi-automatic rifle over a fully automatic one anyhow. They're forced to aim every shot with the semi, versus holding down the trigger for extreme inaccuracy and waste of bullets with a full auto. Even our soldiers in 'Nam, who were trained (not to modern standards, but still trained), were seen to be wasteful to the point of uselessness with fully automatic rifles in combat.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I'm not sure why, but I like that the side of reason is portrayed by the penguin from Wallace and Gromit cosplaying as Cyclops
Your annoying pretentiousness and passive aggressive comments itt aren't funny. You're not even making a point. Just making yourself look ignorant with no clue what you're talking about. I bet you think the average citizen carries a gun in the US... Do you even live in the US?
Mammoth Jones
Member
I mean, you can mock me. That's mature. Doesn't change the reality that there is a vibrant black market for illegal firearms in the US. Period.
Make no mistake, I don't mean buying them on a street corner in every case. Shit, many times gun shops go completely shady...doing so puts them in the black market.
I'm done explaining this. Here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html
We're not going to tackle the problem by putting our heads in the fucking sand. That goes for gun owners and non-gun owners. All of us.
Let's go after the black market. Go after gun shops that sell illegally. And have common sense gun control laws. Combine that with access for every citizen to mental health services form cradle to grave and I think we'll have some progress.
Or you can just mock me again. Your move, slick.
Explain why, please, thank you.
Warm Machine
Member
Small point but converting a semi-auto weapon to full auto is academic. My father could do it in his workshop. He was also in the military so the knowledge was available.
What people that don't know all that much about guns mean to be talking about when they use the word "automatic" in these situations is rate of fire. :-[
Expired in 2004...autos are legal depending on the state. Expensive as fuck to own though.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
You and the other guy missed the point entirely.
Do you really think people for gun control expect people with illegal guns to turn them in? No duh they won't.
Those illegal guns come from somewhere. Most of them are bought legally then sold/stolen. Or, bought from licensed dealers illegally.
The guns COME from somewhere. They don't just grow from some plant someone grows in their basement. All the guns are made legally, that's the problem.
Nope. certainly not. Wasn't certainly raised in the US in a gun totting rural-ish society. Most certainly don't have a wife who's family is full of hunters. And most certainly of all don't advocate basic gun ownership for hunting. Never have fired a gun and if I did I bet I wasn't the one that got the highest score out of the range group. Nope. Not me. I'm a hipster godless anti-gun European.
Now you. Do you even lift?
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Cool. Care to tell us any other NFA violations your father committed? How about some dates and times? Please speak into my lapel. It's just a nervous tick I have.
CharlieDigital
Banned
EmCeeGramr
Member
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation
but if victim had gun this not happen
Dude Abides
Banned
That is a book about sales technique. I have no idea what it says, since I can't read a book from an Amazon link, but the description suggests it has little bearing on this issue at all, much less that it supports the specific assertion you made about psychological consensus on the causes of mass shootings.
No, it isn't. The Constitution provides no cause of action for libel. State tort laws do. What the Constitution does prevent is government attempts to censor the media.
And George Zimmerman has legal recourse against the people who threatened him. What he does not have, nor should he, is recourse against the media for reporting accurate facts on issues of public concern, such as the shooting death of a teenager.
It actually isn't akin to it at all. Yelling fire in a theater can be prohibited because doing causes an immediate and direct risk to people's lives in the vicinity. The position you are arguing is that the media should be censored because coverage of incident A might possibly, in some attenuated fashion, lead to a similar incident B in some other place years in the future. In the US we take free speech rights too seriously to allow them to be infringed with such flimsy justification.
*sigh* This is so irrelevant to these discussions. No one is using automatic weapons or hand-modified semi-autos in these mass shootings.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
No. It's not expired. The AWB expired. The Firearm Owners Protection Act is still very much in place.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Your solution is to keep doing what the ATF has been doing for years.
Because that's working so well, obviously. You deserve to be mocked.
my pleasure.
the evidence for the first claim is not strong (you can pick evidence in both directions). suicide, for example, is a clear indicator of major mental health problems and the suicide rate isn't particularly high. similarly, spending on mental health problems in america isn't particularly out of the ordinary when compared to other countries (this despite the fact that such problems get plenty of attention). gun availability is certainly high, but a particularly violent history isn't true at all.
I don't know of the rate, I just know that some incidents have happened. As I said, I suspect that the ratio is quite small.
Mammoth Jones
Member
So you're saying that guns shouldn't be made at all?
Correct?
(I don't want to put words in your mouth so I'm asking instead)
SRTtoZ
Member
Not if you had an automatic weapon.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
Well now I'm dreading my wife's Christmas party tomorrow. Her co-worker's husband is a cop, and one of those hard-Right, Limbaugh-listening, Fox News-loving types. I'm sure he'll say something about this.
Same here, same here. Except it's my mothers whole side of the family.
Where do these people think criminals get their guns? Gun-runners from Afghanistan? They either walk into a store and buy them, send someone else to buy them for them or fucking steal them from some Charles Bronson wannabe.
Gun control laws will not evaporate the already existing guns. They will just make it more difficult for new ones to get into the wild.
Gun control laws will not evaporate the already existing guns. They will just make it more difficult for new ones to get into the wild.
Earthstrike
Member
Huge in what regards? Land mass size or population? It shouldn't have anything to do with landmass (since that already inherently covered in density, and if you look at population, then the implication is that japan, having 128 million people should have approx. a third of the gun crimes as america. Again this is unless you are capable of demonstrating that the absolute size of the population somehow makes a difference.
Edit: I see you are telling other to reread what you wrote. Most people seem to have the correct idea though. That you did indeed say "both huge and densely populated". People pointed out that many of the nations listed are more densely populated than america. So really you have to show how being huge is also a factor which, in combination with population density, leads to higher per capita crime rate.
The manufacture for private ownership is still banned. Hell just purchasing a legal and transferrable drop in auto-sear for an AR-15 will run you north of $7000, not including the 200$ tax stamp.
Deified Data
Banned
CyclopsRock
Member
That may well be your interpretation, but it certainly isn't the supreme court's, a la District of Columbia v. Heller. They ruled pretty clearly that the right to bear arms exists outside the explicit confines of a militia or army.
Correct, depending on the state it is possible but largely prohibitive in cost. But,
Completely and absolutely irrelevant to these discussions.
Let's... not mischaracterize history here :-/ That was a 5-4 decision, and many Americans disagree with it.
I've read most of the comments but not all but thought I would throw something in. I suffer from PTSD and various other fucked up mental disorders and if i chose i could drive up to the nearest sporting goods store and purchase a rifle and shotgun without anyone second guessing it. There's a serious problem when i can walk into dicks and purchase something that can kill someone else without a second thought.
Messypandas
Member
Gun amnesties were held in Britain to destroy existing guns in possession without prosecution. They were very successful.
APZonerunner
Member
Will say this in a sort of devils advocate way: here in the UK, it's a big, shocking event if one person gets shot anywhere in the country. Our equivalent of a major gun event was one man who killed two people and shot two others with a hunting rifle before killing himself. One has to argue that has to be down to how difficult it is to acquire firearms.
On the flip side -- we get more knife crime. Especially around young people. But, still, I guess if you get a mad man with a knife, he generally speaking can do a lot less damage than if he's carrying an auto or even a semi, really.
US gun control can be tighter, I think, but as a Brit I wish our laws were a little more lax. But.. hey, there's a foreign opinion!
On the flip side -- we get more knife crime. Especially around young people. But, still, I guess if you get a mad man with a knife, he generally speaking can do a lot less damage than if he's carrying an auto or even a semi, really.
US gun control can be tighter, I think, but as a Brit I wish our laws were a little more lax. But.. hey, there's a foreign opinion!
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