Support NeoGAF

[Felix Lighter]

Reading between the lines my guess is the different memory setups will not add much development complexity.

It sounds like the Durango eDRAM is basically a GPU-readable version of the 360 eDRAM, or at least that's how imagine it will be used.

Which means, as you are rendering a scene, you ask yourself "ok how much memory do we need for the buffer we're rendering to and how much space do we have left for other textures we can leave in the fast eDRAM instead of resolving to main memory?" A lot of the time that will translate into stuff like rendering the scene, keeping that render in eDRAM, then using that render as a texture input for post-effects. Whereas on the 360 you would have to resolve that to main memory to use as a texture later.

Multiplat development next gen will almost certainly be easier. The PS3 had a fundamentally different architecture than the 360 in a variety of ways, including Cell and an evenly split memory pool. (Vs a main memory pool and a small bonus scratch pad) Orbis and Durango appear to both be very similar with differences mostly around the edges. Conceptually the PS3 took a different approach to work with and Cell also made tooling issues trickier.

Sounds great. Hopefully this means a more consistent quality for ports across the board and less resources need to be devoted to optimizing for vastly different architectures. Also, the biggy for me, more good PC ports.

 

[Can Crusher]

I'm not seeing the PS3/360 comparisons. Those are widely differently designed systems.

Seems like the next Xbox and Playstation are close in design. Both seem relatively straight forward relatively speaking.

They seem to share the same CPU. That's about it from where I'm standing.

 

[Mrbob]

They seem to share the same CPU. That's about it from where I'm standing.

Same CPU and similar type of GPU.

Digital Foundry is in trouble. Unless people care about minute differences.

 

[Baconsammy]

What bits did I miss? Seems like today we didn't learn a whole lot that we didn't already know, other than some specific details of the Jaguar cores and names of the special blocks. But the memory, GPU, and CPU were all pretty much established already. The I/O is probably the biggest new reveal, with HDMI In and dedicated Kinect ports.
.

The part where the guys that actually know about both consoles said otherwise. That each may do some things better than they other but ultimately it's a wash, and drawing a conclusion that one is way more powerful than the other isn't wise or smart. Also indicated that Eurogamer got some stuff very wrong.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The part where the guys that actually know about both consoles said otherwise. That each may do some things better than they other but ultimately it's a wash, and drawing a conclusion that one is way more powerful than the other isn't wise or smart. Also indicated that Eurogamer got some stuff very wrong.

Could you link me to some posts? This thread is very hard to read through.

 

[oversitting]

Looks like those that had tempered expectations were pretty much right. Specs that we've been arguing about for weeks were pretty much 80% complete. Durango's "special sauce" are just some accelerators with specific functions, but certainly not magical fairy dust that some had presumed.

People should have kept their expectations in check when one of the only true insiders said that three special chips weren't anything major.

And now we have specs of Orbis that we can compare pretty directly since these machines have so much in common. I suppose we'll see what their "special sauce" is hopefully sometime this week for Orbis, but again, it's doubtful that it's anything too dramatic.

Eurogamer's belief that Orbis is significantly more powerful than Durango seems sound right now.

And it's a little disappointing to hear so many proclaim prematurely that Durango was going to be such a "beast" over the competition, based upon developer speculation and second hand information from people that are either tied directly to one platform holder or tend to slant in that direction. Not filtering out the fact that, just maybe, this information wasn't quite objective.

Looking forward to seeing some games hopefully in the coming weeks now that the specs are largely behind us. Even for Durango's apparent shortcomings, I'm pretty interested in their OS direction. The system seems to be designed heavily around some pretty cool features.

There we have it. All 100% legit information with absolutely no bias.

/NextGen

 

[Baconsammy]

Could you link me to some posts? This thread is very hard to read through.

Nope. I'm not wading through 50 pages of what became mainly bad jokes to find it all. It was much earlier in the day though. So closer to the beginning than the end. Or search on posts from Thuway.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

Oh boy he is going to get owned Pretty Hard when the first Digital Foundry comparison articles come out.

Says the "I think to developers it's the same as have 8GB of ram with 170 GB/ bandwidth" guy.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Here's their quote:

The leak also offers confirmation of last week's story that the new PlayStation Orbis graphics core appears - at face value - to be significantly more powerful than the GPU in Durango.

=(

I do play my Xbox more, so I may seem biased, but this makes me sad and worried.. I wanna see both on equal footing when it comes to power, and I especially don't want to see one significantly more powerful than the other.

 

[szaromir]

It'd be best if MS and Sony made nearly identical machines. The easier it is to do multiplatform games, the better for the industry. Then they can compete with their OS, services, accessories, 1st party games etc. No reason to drag the entire industry down in some petty war.

 

[Can Crusher]

Same CPU and similar type of GPU.

Digital Foundry is in trouble. Unless people care about minute differences.

Similar in what sense? Rumors point to different base cores, and a pretty much different interpretation in a closed box system. Not only they may not even be based from the same core, but the way Sony and MS will customize each may transform these gpus into something pretty different than what they were based on.

Different memory design too...

All I see is a CPU design that is being "shared". They don't seem so similar at all.

 

[oversitting]

Same CPU and similar type of GPU.

Digital Foundry is in trouble. Unless people care about minute differences.

Thats basically what they do this gen. And realistically they could say 2 identical pictures looks different and the people who reads those articles wouldn't even notice since its just a epeen contest.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Nope. I'm not wading through 50 pages of what became mainly bad jokes to find it all. It was much earlier in the day though. So closer to the beginning than the end. Or search on posts from Thuway.

thuway...really?

 

[ThisWreckage]

The biggest issue, I find, is how expensive Kinect 2.0 is going to drive prices up for Microsoft's new console. Not only do I think that it's possible for the PS4 to be cheaper, overall, but I also feel the profit margin may be bigger.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

i too, would like to know whether or not the whole APU(aka CPU with a built-in GPU) + dedicated GPU thing is still a go for PS4.

if the detailed specs for Orbis aren't posted tomorrow like the Durango ones were today, i am going to disable my internet and hide in my office's technology closet for the entirety of the work day.

 

[TOAO_Cyrus]

Massively battered? lol

But seriously the architecture is similar. The gpu is only 250 mghz faster. I guess i was expecting them to keep the same architecture of lest gen which would have totally screwed nintendo.

The fastest high end PC GPU's are barily over 1ghz these days now that nvidia has dropped shader clock domains.

 

[Mrbob]

It'd be best if MS and Sony made nearly identical machines. The easier it is to do multiplatform games, the better for the industry. Then they can compete with their OS, services, accessories, 1st party games etc. No reason to drag the entire industry down in some petty war.

Yup. It is going to help keep development costs down. The good news for Sony is this will not be another PS3 situation for them. The similar hardware is going to ensure the Playstation version will be 99 percent the same as the Xbox version, with no major decrease in quality like we have seen with Xbox to PS3 conversions.

 

[ThisWreckage]

I would imagine that no matter what Sony has done, third parties will still gravitate towards Microsoft. However, since the architectures are so similar and Orbis seems to have a slight edge, they may end up in practical parity anyway. Orbis may even get an extra two frames in a town somewhere or something, depending on what we learn about Orbis. I really don't think there's going to end up being a notable difference either way though.

There will not be a notable difference and you can bank on that. Sony will bend over backwards to help third party companies create games for their system by providing help and tools from the get go. Much like they did with the Vita. The only difference being that devs will actually want to make games for the PS4.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

More than happy with these graphics! **chokes on drool**

 

[Can Crusher]

The biggest issue, I find, is how expensive Kinect 2.0 is going to drive prices up for Microsoft's new console. Not only do I think that it's possible for the PS4 to be cheaper, overall, but I also feel the profit margin may be bigger.

Not only do you not have reasons to conclude that, but

There will not be a notable difference and you can bank on that. Sony will bend over backwards to help third party companies create games for their system by providing help and tools from the get go. Much like they did with the Vita. The only difference being that devs will actually want to make games for the PS4.

you also don't know this.

Things don't happen simply because we would like them to happen ya know? We'll have to wait and see.

What's up with some already thinking they know dead on what MS and Sony strategy for next gen is, down to how they will handle everything from hardware to marketing to developer support.

 

[Xamdou]

Very interested in what these new specs will lead to service wise, 16+ party chat? Video chat while gaming? Web-browsing while gaming?

 

[ThisWreckage]

I'm assuming that based on Vita's track record. It's a reasonable assumption since the Vita was Kaz's baby and the PS4 will be as well. Sony started off dreadfully with the PS3, but they seem to consistently be improving by learning from their mistakes.

 

[onQ123]

i too, would like to know whether or not the whole APU(aka CPU with a built-in GPU) + dedicated GPU thing is still a go for PS4.

if the detailed specs for Orbis aren't posted tomorrow like the Durango ones were today, i am going to disable my internet and hide in my office's technology closet for the entirety of the work day.

I think it's going to be a SoC with the CPU + GPGPU + Ram + Special made chip for Computing + something else

 

[Mr.Green]

So many fanboys on both sides only interested in knowing if their beloved corporation "wins". It's sad, yet so entertaining!

 

[szaromir]

Yup. It is going to help keep development costs down. The good news for Sony is this will not be another PS3 situation for them. The similar hardware is going to ensure the Playstation version will be 99 percent the same as the Xbox version, with no major decrease in quality like we have seen with Xbox to PS3 conversions.

There still might be a temptation for one of them to do a noticeably more powerful hardware. I can imagine most devs would use it for image quality enhancements, some would want to implement various bells and whistles.

 

[Can Crusher]

I'm assuming that based on Vita's track record. It's a reasonable assumption since the Vita was Kaz's baby and the PS4 will be as well. Sony started off dreadfully with the PS3, but they seem to consistently be improving by learning from their mistakes.

I understand, but the Vita bombed harder than John Carter. We don't want to take everything into account

But yeah, I agree that based on Orbis hardware, it will be a much easier time than Ps3. But ironically, you get a PS2 - Xbox like situation where if devs decide that Durango is the lead platform, and the design of the hardware is exotic vs Orbis... problems can show up again.

 

[i-Lo]

So many fanboys on both sides only interested in knowing if their beloved corporation "wins". It's sad, yet so entertaining!

Perhaps but there are many others, like myself, who hope that buying one console should be enough without being prejudiced pertaining to multiplatform titles. In addition, I do not wish to pay for live (even I though I have done it time and time again).

 

[Mindlog]

There we have it. All 100% legit information with absolutely no bias.

/NextGen

Believing the 'insiders' for 90% of their information (proven correct), but not for that last 10% (still to be determined.)

NextGen

Whoever wins... The Cloud loses, because after the Oculus Rift no one is going to willingly add latency to their home setups.

 

[ScepticMatt]

Very interested in what these new specs will lead to service wise, 16+ party chat? Video chat while gaming? Web-browsing while gaming?

everything besides group video chat should be easy to do. Steam Overlay etc.

 

[FuturusX]

So many fanboys on both sides only interested in knowing if their beloved corporation "wins". It's sad, yet so entertaining!

But there are some in here genuinely interested in the technical differences, the underlying potential of the hardware at hand and what it means for the future console gaming. Discerning the difference is pretty arbitrary to be honest.

 

[coldfoot]

1st post on GAF and I am so sorry it has to start with a falling out...

Don't you ever, EVER...disrespect the Sopwith Camel in such a disgraceful way. That thing is a legend made by men, for real men.

None of this present day, namby pamby types who wear g-suits to protect thier nuts from entering their head. Sopwith Camel pilots put thier balls in direct firing line of Spandau machine guns.

Compare it to a Wii U again. Serious words will be had.

Wow...Sopwith Camel defense force on GAF, this is surreal.
Bravo sir...Bravo...this is the weirdest moment I have had on GAF thanks to you...

Just letting you know that admitting that the Camel does not stand a chance against fighters made 100 years later doesn't take anything away from it

 

[Mr.Green]

Perhaps but there are many others, like myself, who hopes that buying one console should be enough without being prejudiced pertaining to multiplatform titles. In addition I do not wish to pay for live (even I though I have done it time and time again).

That's fair enough and it seems you've already made your mind. You didn't declare a winner of the specs war yet now have you?

 

[i-Lo]

That's fair enough and it seems you've already made your mind. You didn't declare a winner of the specs war yet now have you?

At this moment I am leaning toward PS4 as my first system of choice (because I would like to buy XB3 for MS' current and unforeseen exclusives) and my only wish is that there is an absolute parity with XB3 when it comes to multiplatform titles. Hence, I want the specs to translate into a development environment that allows for such a possibility. Otherwise, I would have to purchase the XB3 first instead.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

That's fair enough and it seems you've already made your mind. You didn't declare a winner of the specs war yet now have you?

For me the winner of the specs war is whoever has the most comfortable controller. I honestly think any graphical differences will be marginal.


Whatever, I'm buying both. I've got 1,500 dollars saved up for this. I'm hungry and it's time to eat.

 

[B.O.O.M]

I may be wrong here but I don't think, even at this point, anyone should take any of the comments with 'insider info' too seriously. Just get the feeling that most of those who have such information in this forum only have access to Durango related information too what's up Sony? leak some more info already on dat sauce of yours

At the end of the day I do hope for two consoles in similar levels of power but strengths in different areas. We as gamers would benefit the most that way

 

[spwolf]

Same CPU and similar type of GPU.

Digital Foundry is in trouble. Unless people care about minute differences.

which will make them even easier to compare if there is actual difference as everyone says there will be.

It seems to me that MS spent more money to include Kinect into every box thinking that 3rd parties will most likely not spend extra effort to spice up games for PS4 so they can also get Kinect for casuals, while Sony went for core gamers thinking their 1st parties will be able to show the difference.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Very interested in what these new specs will lead to service wise, 16+ party chat? Video chat while gaming? Web-browsing while gaming?

And services is one of those areas where its hard to tell what people will latch on to. Achievements and Party Chat added a lot to my experience this gen, and I wouldn't have thought that in 2005.

 

[GopherD]

I may be wrong here but I don't think, even at this point, anyone should take any of the comments with 'insider info' too seriously. Just get the feeling that most of those who have such information in this forum only have access to Durango related information too what's up Sony? leak some more info already on dat sauce of yours

At the end of the day I do hope for two consoles in similar levels of power but strengths in different areas. We as gamers would benefit the most that way

There are GAFers that are coding Orbis games.

 

[McHuj]

It seems to me that MS spent more money to include Kinect into every box thinking that 3rd parties will most likely not spend extra effort to spice up games for PS4 so they can also get Kinect for casuals, while Sony went for core gamers thinking their 1st parties will be able to show the difference.

MS better hope that Kinect actually works this time or else the whole strategy will backfire. Finer resolution is expect, but it better interpret action and intentions much better as well.

 

[Xamdou]

And services is one of those areas where its hard to tell what people will latch on to. Achievements and Party Chat added a lot to my experience this gen, and I wouldn't have thought that in 2005.

Same here, still wondering what MS has in store for us for their next-gen system services.

 

[XtremeXpider]

MS better hope that Kinect actually works this time or else the whole strategy will backfire. Finer resolution is expect, but it better interpret action and intentions much better as well.

And I hope Xbox Live 3.0 add a lot of new things, I don't want to pay for something that is free on another system.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

which will make them even easier to compare if there is actual difference as everyone says there will be.

It seems to me that MS spent more money to include Kinect into every box thinking that 3rd parties will most likely not spend extra effort to spice up games for PS4 so they can also get Kinect for casuals, while Sony went for core gamers thinking their 1st parties will be able to show the difference.

I honestly I don't understand this. The differences between MS and Sony's console strategies have been marginal. Both have gone after core gamers, both of gone after casuals, both are looking to transform the living room. It seems a lot of posters are projecting huge corporate philosophical differences that aren't really there.

 

[B.O.O.M]

There are GAFers that are coding Orbis games.

llhere? Are there others that we know of? I trust Llhere as I see he is tagged MR. Accurate

 

[iceatcs]

There are GAFers that are coding Orbis games.

And Sony got Black Belt Ninja. MS got Brown one.

 

[yellow submarine]

Man, people will believe anything with a diagram of boxes with arrows. You guys are actually buying this horse shit with separate North Bridge/South Bridge in this day and age? Actually, never mind, everyone on the hype train, choo choooo! CRYSIS 4 AT 1080p max here we come!

 

[Mr.Green]

So I came home late tonight and I kinda skimmed this thread pretty bad, I hope you won't hold it against me... Did that Karak (or something) guy manage to find the proper way to align the words containing his alleged top secret info?

 

[McHuj]

And I hope Xbox Live 3.0 add a lot of new things, I don't want to pay for something that is free on another system.

That's a valid point, I think MS needs to knock whatever services they're planning out of the park. It better be stuff we haven't seen before.

I don't believe that they can offer services like netflix and youtube behind a paywall, when you can use those services on $50 streaming boxes or anyone's cellphone, it's not a value add. They need more than that.

 

[Gorillaz]

nvm

 

[Globox_82]

Oh boy he is going to get owned Pretty Hard when the first Digital Foundry comparison articles come out.

not sure about that. Although I would remove "significantly" that he used.

 

[Karak]

So I came home late tonight and I kinda skimmed this thread pretty bad, I hope you won't hold it against me... Did that Karak (or something) guy manage to find the proper way to align the words containing his alleged top secret info?

There really wasn't anything to align. What do you mean?
Edit: Other than me still being confused.