XtremeXpider
Member
And lherre said the same.
VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...
- Thread starter Shikoro
- Start date
And lherre said the same.
Baconsammy
Banned
Yep. He made a point of saying it very emphatically before getting on his flight earlier today. Also pointed out that if people think he has a horse in the race, they're not very bright. Something along those lines.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
This is a terribly short sighted thing to say. Most I think are becoming increasingly aware that the two will be similarly matched in power (don't know why people would have thought otherwise tbh).
Sure there are some fanboys that want to rub it in, but let's not paint with the broad brush here, there are just as many butt hurt that the earlier reports of the Durango being significantly more powerful turned out to be false.
Even the most hardcore of Fanboys should not expect MS to seriously break the bank for Durango. Last year the specs were even weaker.
Heres an example...
Say your in Halo5, Kinect 2 enable (HUMOUR ME) ..
And your standing with a gun control aiming at the TV. You tilt your head slightly to the right and the Kinect beams your details thru the xbox to the cloud or some external device. This information could then be used by the external device or the cloud to render unique AUDIO for your actual position in 3D space. Then it beams the Audio back to the xbox and you hear it..
Basically 3D realtime Audio, rather than these predefined sound assets. If these 3D Audio assets were to be included with the game on blueray it may take 2-3 bluerays, maybe even more. BUT because its being doing realtime and streamed to you its more efficient..
Another scenario is your shotting at someone in HALO5, and you scream at the screen. Kinect 2 may be able to beam your scream to the cloud including your 3D position and augment it to make it sound like your really in the game ...
Its things like this that would be very hard to do with predefined assets on a blueray DVD..
-Pyromaniac-
Member
They're both going to be beasts, can't that be enough.
ThisWreckage
Banned
I'm not buying into any of this insider info because sometimes leaks turn into the telephone game where a nugget of true information gets perverted into a bunch of bullshit.
Baconsammy
Banned
Thuway quotes from earlier:
Arthur said:
To which Thuway responded:
also:
Finally:
Arthur said:
To which Thuway responded:
also:
Finally:
Chuck Norris
Banned
What on Earth are you talking about
Codeblew
Member
He is not saying it can't. He is saying it is a bottleneck because there is not 6.4GB to pull with only 4GB of memory.
I think it's more frustration that we have basic info except for these little mystery boxes with no specifics on what they do or how they are used. So there is this gap being filled only by one or two knowledgable people giving obfuscated comments now and again (for good reason I'm sure)
From this side of the fence it is frustrating to read. It basically does sound like the numbers are lower, but these magic beans will solve everything. Hopefully you can understand how difficult that can be to take at face value? It doesn't mean we don't value yours or thuway's input, just that it is difficult to meaningfully digest right now.
oversitting
Banned
its unlikely you will need anywhere near that kind of bandwidth. 192GB/s is overkill for 1080p 60fps with a 7850. People can tell you that the 7850 runs just as fast with ram at stock and when they OC.
Well factor in this. I also remember Proelite saying the both MS and Sony will be using their console in different ways to reach the same ballpark of power.
Sony - Higher power by default + Brute force with some modifications.
MS - Lower power by default with specialized modifications.
If there's some third party game with steep requirements for next gen, it's safe to assume that both consoles have met that target. They just took a different road to get there.
Wolves Evolve
Member
I don't think its fair to insinuate (as in the last page) people like Aegies that they're discussing these things with bias, especially when as a North American writer, he's going to have access to more people who are closer to Microsoft than someone who would be reporting from Tokyo. Plus, even the worst fanchild will admit that Microsoft's ownership of Direct X give them a natural advantage with development - that being the premise of their entry in the market. Frankly, I don't even trust some developers about the current systems - Square Enix's "HD towns" comment comes to mind.
There I was starting to think I was all alone.
I started reading this thread and it very much started to sound like a form of viral marketing was being conducted. Then when the thread went sideways, the message seemed to become very disjointed. Just like they lost control of how they expected things to turn out.
A short time later, it seems they were all singing from the same hymn book again.
At this time i'm just guessing next gen potential on hardware and numbers we are seeing in these supposed leaks while discounting any "custom hardware" (so much better saying that than special sauce, as that does sound like a viral marketing term).
Basically this, and it's honestly starting to get old with this whole "hit and run" tactic of "leaks". It was cute a few weeks/month ago but now it's getting old. We havn't even added in bias from the "insider" as well.
Even tho I joke around a lot at the end of the day, I still see both on the same playing field.
I'm heading that way. This thread just goes round in circles, then vgleaks will do orbis, sparking off another 100 page thread, and we still won't have seen any of the games.
March is close enough to wait and see. And even then this place will explode with comparisons, declaring one or other to be the best console ever, based only on off-camera footage of a 40% complete Ubisoft game.
Phire Phox
Banned
I have a feeling the final specs will be quite a bit better in the final 720 unit. Specs that are leaked this early are usually based on devkits which are not representative of the consoles final hardware. 3DS specs were "leaked" and the final version was considerably more powerful than the leaked specs would have you believe.
lololol this is good stuff
Baconsammy
Banned
Is the reason Microsoft is so focused on low power is because they intend for it to always be on?
Codeblew
Member
Pass the blunt dude.
I want sony's GPU and GDDR5, and MS's optimisations and amount of ram. Is that too much to ask?
Yes, you say? Oh ok.
Speculation: Perhaps to keep the BOM in check as they pack Kinect 2 with all versions of XB3.
I really don't think so, though hey, I'd be happy to be wrong in the direction of better specs. I'll never complain about better specs, and I'll own both. I would pay a thousand dollars today for a new console from Sony or Microsoft. I just want new things. That's what's exciting for me. NEW. THINGS.
Okay I found a real lengthy article from january of 2005 about the xenos cpu and what was known about it. By coincidence it happens to be january 2013 which puts any talk of the durango cpu in the boat this article was in 8 years ago.
From what I can gather, those specs obviously spell out an 8 core cpu. Read into it a bit more and it's like 2 - 4 core cpus working togethor, each with their own 2mb l2 cache. Each individual core seems to work about the same as a xenos core worked. They can run 2 threads , have the same data rate ,etc etc. What I think the goal was here , lower the clockspeed to produce less heat,waste less power, possibly increase yields and reduce costs. So I've got the idea that the Durango CPU works as follows- each 4 core half runs about as fast as the entire Xenos chip did. It does so producing much less waste heat and avoids burning as many watts. With 8 cores, I'd expect overall performance to be at minimum- double the speed of Xenos at full bore. I really don't know enough about CPU's to speculate on how the clockspeed being 50% slower will effect rendering a videogame on screen, I'd have to guess though, with 8 cores and 16 threads , programming will have to be handled more efficiently, each pass of data perhaps has to do more ? since it takes longer for them to come? I mean I have no idea.
Obviously if all they changed was that CPU I'm not sure you'd see any improvement at all but this is a brand new console. Even with the rumored 3gb OS footprint on RAM at all times, that leaves 5 GB of memory which is 10 times what's in a 360. That is an enormous difference. The bluray drive is 6X - that's 27 megabytes per second of reading speed. Sadly this means that filling up that memory , even at peak read performance is still going to take a whopping 190 seconds(do that math here and that's over 3 minutes). So load times won't be going anywhere. Course the PS3 in comparison took at minimum 57 seconds to read 512 megabytes(the size of it's ram) on it's 2X bluray drive. The 360 used 12X dvd which maxed out at about 33 seconds to fill it's memory. Real world performance seems to indicate numbers around 50-100% larger though. Kind of makes me wonder how much of that ram will actually get used to it's fullest potential. I can see games doing a lengthy initial load time whenever you boot a game up and then little to know load time afterwards since content will always be sitting in memory to be accessed nearly instantly, future load times being hidden in the background during play.
The 360 had that wonderful 10 megabyte edram frame buffer which it used to gain free antialiasing in some games and obtain a higher fill rate in others. That seems to work quite well for 720p resolution but now the new xbox had 32 MB. Even going to 1080P (a 50% increase in pixel count) would likely have been accomplished with only 16 MB , yet there's twice that available. Could this mean even more free antialiasing or is this exceptionally fast frame buffer ram being used to assist in something more this time around ?
The GPU itself too, not really any surprises there. Seems to be somewhere in between a customized 7770 or perhaps more accurately a downgraded 7850. There are fewer considerations to worry about with a closed architecture such as a console so expecting an absurd graphics card might have been .. well, not likely. Given when release is targeted it might be fairer to say the GPU in durango is a prototype for the 8770. Just as power efficient as the CPU is as well as packing a considerable wallop over the 360 gpu.
If I had to take a realworld pc game from right now and pretend what it would look like on this console, I'd say 1920X1080 @ 30 FPS is well within reach. For something like the direct X 11 version of metro 2033 or even crysis 2 with only minimal detail loss. Really, I think you could port it perfectly if given enough time to optimize.
This tells me that 60fps will still be a goal made largely unachievable unless you want to sacrifice direct X 11.1 shaders. Running a 360 level game on this kind of hardware should net absurd results like 120fps 4X AA @ 1080P which should mean stereoscopic gaming will finally work for anything current gen. 720p 60fps 3D gaming or 1080p 60fps 2d with extra anti aliasing. I forsee many launch titles being somewhat lazy and only doing just that. Others will be sloppy rushed PC ports that will run a bit like ass and then we will get a couple of games that had some polish and look great.
From what I can gather, those specs obviously spell out an 8 core cpu. Read into it a bit more and it's like 2 - 4 core cpus working togethor, each with their own 2mb l2 cache. Each individual core seems to work about the same as a xenos core worked. They can run 2 threads , have the same data rate ,etc etc. What I think the goal was here , lower the clockspeed to produce less heat,waste less power, possibly increase yields and reduce costs. So I've got the idea that the Durango CPU works as follows- each 4 core half runs about as fast as the entire Xenos chip did. It does so producing much less waste heat and avoids burning as many watts. With 8 cores, I'd expect overall performance to be at minimum- double the speed of Xenos at full bore. I really don't know enough about CPU's to speculate on how the clockspeed being 50% slower will effect rendering a videogame on screen, I'd have to guess though, with 8 cores and 16 threads , programming will have to be handled more efficiently, each pass of data perhaps has to do more ? since it takes longer for them to come? I mean I have no idea.
Obviously if all they changed was that CPU I'm not sure you'd see any improvement at all but this is a brand new console. Even with the rumored 3gb OS footprint on RAM at all times, that leaves 5 GB of memory which is 10 times what's in a 360. That is an enormous difference. The bluray drive is 6X - that's 27 megabytes per second of reading speed. Sadly this means that filling up that memory , even at peak read performance is still going to take a whopping 190 seconds(do that math here and that's over 3 minutes). So load times won't be going anywhere. Course the PS3 in comparison took at minimum 57 seconds to read 512 megabytes(the size of it's ram) on it's 2X bluray drive. The 360 used 12X dvd which maxed out at about 33 seconds to fill it's memory. Real world performance seems to indicate numbers around 50-100% larger though. Kind of makes me wonder how much of that ram will actually get used to it's fullest potential. I can see games doing a lengthy initial load time whenever you boot a game up and then little to know load time afterwards since content will always be sitting in memory to be accessed nearly instantly, future load times being hidden in the background during play.
The 360 had that wonderful 10 megabyte edram frame buffer which it used to gain free antialiasing in some games and obtain a higher fill rate in others. That seems to work quite well for 720p resolution but now the new xbox had 32 MB. Even going to 1080P (a 50% increase in pixel count) would likely have been accomplished with only 16 MB , yet there's twice that available. Could this mean even more free antialiasing or is this exceptionally fast frame buffer ram being used to assist in something more this time around ?
The GPU itself too, not really any surprises there. Seems to be somewhere in between a customized 7770 or perhaps more accurately a downgraded 7850. There are fewer considerations to worry about with a closed architecture such as a console so expecting an absurd graphics card might have been .. well, not likely. Given when release is targeted it might be fairer to say the GPU in durango is a prototype for the 8770. Just as power efficient as the CPU is as well as packing a considerable wallop over the 360 gpu.
If I had to take a realworld pc game from right now and pretend what it would look like on this console, I'd say 1920X1080 @ 30 FPS is well within reach. For something like the direct X 11 version of metro 2033 or even crysis 2 with only minimal detail loss. Really, I think you could port it perfectly if given enough time to optimize.
This tells me that 60fps will still be a goal made largely unachievable unless you want to sacrifice direct X 11.1 shaders. Running a 360 level game on this kind of hardware should net absurd results like 120fps 4X AA @ 1080P which should mean stereoscopic gaming will finally work for anything current gen. 720p 60fps 3D gaming or 1080p 60fps 2d with extra anti aliasing. I forsee many launch titles being somewhat lazy and only doing just that. Others will be sloppy rushed PC ports that will run a bit like ass and then we will get a couple of games that had some polish and look great.
Chuck Norris
Banned
I don't think you really understand how audio worksplz ignore... No way for me to easily explain DSP + Kinect 2 potential
I believe there's regulation requirements (law) that MS needs to meet from a power perspective to be a settop box or XTV/IPTV streamer..
So they need low watts to qualify.. etc
not sure thou!
Probably something like this:
1) Save money on breaking the bank without putting in an expensive graphics card.
2) Figure out how to run CryEngine 3 or Unreal Engine 4 as intended without breaking the bank.
3.) Ask Crytek or Epic what was the faults of their previous engines while working on 360 and how to fix this
4) The Frankenstein of the Durango we know today
5.)?????
6.) Profit???
XtremeXpider
Member
All I was suggesting is that AUDIO signals could be augmented and processed outside of the Xbox using information from sensors like Kinect ..
a person tilts there head ever so slightly and they can hear a completely different sound, 1 degree less and different sound..
overkill for 1080P 60fps maybe but what about 4K or 120FPS for 3D & so on?
The thing is that when the next gen comes out they will bee 400+ then the wiiU will drop to 250 and 200 yea I think moms and dad's will pick up there kid a wiiU. I have a wii u and I've turned it on maybe like 10 times since release. Until actually good games come out I'll be excited for now tho I'm looking forward to the new Sony system the next xbox will wait till I can afford it.
Yes, and I'm not even denying that to be not true. It's my personal prediction that the benefits of GDDR5 will not be felt till later on in the gen when graphical features can intensify to the degree that they fully utilise faster bandwidth, which currently most games aren't really doing. Case in point, pc GPU DDR3 vs GDDR5 benchmarks on most current gen games.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Doesn't really make sense, audio doesn't change in real life because you tilt your head and surround sound accomplishes much of what I think you want.
Its like you hear something around the corner but its faint, the more you turn your head the wispers can become more audible.
You can hear the enemy around the corner , the more you move closer and with a slight tilt of your head you may be able to hear them more..
It was in a document from Durango and Kinect2 potential!
I think the idea is the equivalent of head-tracking, but for audio. Granted, I don't know if that's what it does, but I've heard crazy things about the audio hardware in Durango (and I don't imagine the capability is much different for Orbis, since apparently I have to say that now).
I would be curious to know from people here what would make them want a new, more powerful kinect. Like, what features would sell you on it.
BTW I believe the scientific term for this is the Dopler Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect
Low power equals less heat and less chances of RODs.
oversitting
Banned
not going to happen this generation with only 2TF.
Based on gaming benchmarks Ive seen, there will nothing like that. 22FPS on 7970/680 means about 10fps on a ps4. Game would not look as nice either for most people because of the lack of 4k TVs.
For 120fps will not happen, no point since not enough TV support it and its a waste of processing power for very little perceived gain. You can't pull a 120fps gif and post about how awesome it looks.
I have no idea how sony will try to do 3D but it really is a waste for most people. I think like more than half of people play with 3D off on the 3ds and thats when they bundle it for free.
XtremeXpider
Member
I really think kinect can't be sold to "core" gamers.
Xenon
Member
I think they wanted eliminate fan noise and prevent product failures due to excessive heat.
LOL That has nothing to do with tilting your head and all to do with the frequency of the sound reaching your ear. If I'm standing the same distance from the speaker in my living room, me tilting my head isn't going to alter the sound because it's still the same distance.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
I thought traditionally final units are usually lower or equal spec to the Dev kits? I like the 3DS and all, but that is about the worst example of power you can find, it needed everything it could get. Also I get the feeling both Sony and Microsoft are shooting for as low of an entry price as possibly so I doubt cranking up the resources for the final units would be in the cards.
oversitting
Banned
then how do you tell which direction sound is coming from?
I was thinking if the source was moving around then the sound waves emitted by them would be moving. Hence me needing to tilt my head to hear them better..
I could be wrong here!
dragonelite
Member
Can i have what he is having doctor..
Lol wat?
You do know positional surround sound has been around for years?
Why does it need to fly off to clouds?
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
This....sounds complicated and very niche. The original kinect could barely handle voice recognition properly and now we are expecting it to move the entire sound field based off the position of your constantly moving head and re-render audio on the fly? Using the interent!?!?!?!?!?