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[ScepticMatt]

the main factor in sound localization is inter-aural delays and level differences, which change when you tilt your head

I would be curious to know from people here what would make them want a new, more powerful kinect. Like, what features would sell you on it.

way less latency, and way more precise (like orders of magnitude better, as with the leap motion tracker)
Accurate enough to work with VR headsets.

 

[Razgreez]

I would be curious to know from people here what would make them want a new, more powerful kinect. Like, what features would sell you on it.

To actually work as advertised would be a nice start. Can remember being lambasted in kinect threads for saying the device just does not work consistently enough - the games proved me right in the end but that wasnt the point. The tracking also needs to be far more robust and have less light and room restrictions

Developers also need to turn around from their current view point of breaking down current game genres and trying to couple kinect onto them somehow ro somewhere. Kinect games can and should be completely different from your normal games

 

[Officerrob]

I think the idea is the equivalent of head-tracking, but for audio. Granted, I don't know if that's what it does, but I've heard crazy things about the audio hardware in Durango (and I don't imagine the capability is much different for Orbis, since apparently I have to say that now).

I would be curious to know from people here what would make them want a new, more powerful kinect. Like, what features would sell you on it.

For me, three things:

Less required space to operate the damn thing
Much improved recognition
Compelling software that includes use of a controller (playing with no controller at all is fun for my daughters, but is not for me)

 

[jbug617]

I think the idea is the equivalent of head-tracking, but for audio. Granted, I don't know if that's what it does, but I've heard crazy things about the audio hardware in Durango (and I don't imagine the capability is much different for Orbis, since apparently I have to say that now).

I would be curious to know from people here what would make them want a new, more powerful kinect. Like, what features would sell you on it.

Honestly I think the ship has sailed on the core being convinced that hardcore games can be played with Kinect. I can see it being a optional feature (Better with Kinect) for core games.
I hope that Ryse is no longer a Kinect game.

I think Microsoft should focus Kinect on non gaming applications like Skype for the next Xbox and using voice commands.

 

[saunderez]

Developers also need to turn around from their current view point of breaking down current game genres and trying to couple kinect onto them somehow ro somewhere. Kinect games can and should be completely different from your normal games

There is massive space for Kinect to improve traditional games as long as they get it working well enough in a supplementary fashion. Head tracking in Forza for example, fantastic idea, but in practice the only time it worked for me is when I was sitting really close to the TV. If they can improve the accuracy to the point where it's not actually impeding anymore I think it will be much better. Also Kinect's directional mic is best in class for a wireless mic, the way it isolates sound is a massive achievement, I want to see further advances there too.

 

[bobbytkc]

Yes, and I'm not even denying that to be not true. It's my personal prediction that the benefits of GDDR5 will not be felt till later on in the gen when graphical features can intensify to the degree that they fully utilise faster bandwidth, which currently most games aren't really doing. Case in point, pc GPU DDR3 vs GDDR5 benchmarks on most current gen games.

People underestimate the importance of bandwidth. Many modern effects are achieved through multiple passes, like for example tessellation, which eats up bandwidth. Bandwidth is not simply used to access unique texture data, as data stored on memory are accessed multiple times to produce visual effects, and each time you access these information, it eats up bandwidth.

 

[onQ123]

I think the idea is the equivalent of head-tracking, but for audio. Granted, I don't know if that's what it does, but I've heard crazy things about the audio hardware in Durango (and I don't imagine the capability is much different for Orbis, since apparently I have to say that now).

I would be curious to know from people here what would make them want a new, more powerful kinect. Like, what features would sell you on it.

higher FPS for tracking, 60FPS or even 120FPS.

Becaus even playing old Eyetoy games felt better than playing Kinect games because the tracking was a little weighed down by the 30FPS tracking that made you feel like you had to move a little slower to stay with your Avatar movements in most games but Dance Central which didn't have that problem because you wasn't controlling the dancers.

 

[liquidboy]

I found the statement around possibilities around something like Kinect2+RichRealtimeAudio


Tuyen Pham, CEO of A-Volute: 3D Sound Projects, said 3D sound is incredible and it changes with a person's movements.

"The effect of 3D sound is astonishing. You're in the axis of the speaker and you hear sound; you move your head a little bit and the sound disappears."

 

[Vagabundo]

They're both going to be beasts, can't that be enough.

You need a long dick if you're going to enter a dick swinging contest.

 

[B.O.O.M]

The thing is that when the next gen comes out they will bee 400+ then the wiiU will drop to 250 and 200 yea I think moms and dad's will pick up there kid a wiiU. I have a wii u and I've turned it on maybe like 10 times since release. Until actually good games come out I'll be excited for now tho I'm looking forward to the new Sony system the next xbox will wait till I can afford it.

This is exactly why we didn't see a price drop for either PS3 or 360 last year MSony knows this. Imagine them dropping the price during holidays AND doing some seriously crazy good deals this year to counter a potential wiiu price drop

 

[Codeblew]

I would be curious to know from people here what would make them want a new, more powerful kinect. Like, what features would sell you on it.

Nothing. I like to chill on the couch with minimal movement when playing video games. I go running or hiking when I want a workout.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

I still get a kick out of people that honestly believe that someone will "figure out" how to control every game using the Kinect. Yes, because everyone will have a riot playing call of duty running in place, jumping, turning, squating, laying down, swapping imaginary weapons, and throwing imaginary grenades, while their neighbors are hitting the floor with a broom yelling for you to "please stop for the love of god."

That sounds great in fantasy land....and that's about the only place it sounds great. Give me a controller and I am good. Have zero interest in Kinect anything. Even voice recognition.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

I think the idea is the equivalent of head-tracking, but for audio. Granted, I don't know if that's what it does, but I've heard crazy things about the audio hardware in Durango (and I don't imagine the capability is much different for Orbis, since apparently I have to say that now).

I would be curious to know from people here what would make them want a new, more powerful kinect. Like, what features would sell you on it.

I'll bite.

The design rigour of a normal game design process, applied to the Kinect. Simply, just that would do it. Instead of dumbly attaching concepts to features, thinking laterally with what those features already are.

In General:
- More integration of kinect's minor features (like microphone) into gameplay combined with a controller. I don't need to gesture six times to attach a scope to my gun (like in Future Soldier). That's less efficient than a button. What might be more efficient than a button? Scoping - perhaps. Better uses of voice commands.
- Ability for a fake "Picture Plane": defining a plane in space, perhaps when it boots up by tracing a rectangle in front of me with my index fingers, of how I see the television. With that, allow me to puncture / press the fake plane in front of me - effectively turning the television into a touchscreen. Do this, and I'll buy it regardless of whether its got an Xbox underneath it.


In Specific:
- In games like Dance Central (which is fantastic, I think), a more thorough sense of being trained how to use my body.
- Lateral thinking of the tech, less about power. Make me stand on a mountain top on Skyrim and shout out the name of a dragon to summon it.
- Kinect-specific DLC for some core games. Let me opt-in.

 

[Proxy]

Physical input devices are the bee's knees.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Hasn't Thuway also endorsed the notion that Orbis and Durango are closer in performance than they seem on paper?

If specs on paper was the best way to "win", PS3 would've "won" current-gen.

As much as people like to say what thu feel like saying with the whole Orbis > Durango > WiiU comparison, Durango and Orbis are more similar than others may imagine.

You take a heavier car with a big engine and lap it against a lighter car with a small engine, and the lap times will be near identical. Not only that, but the lap time will depend on who is driving the car; it all comes down to the look, sound and feel of the car.

Durango and Orbis should be picked not for the hardware but the software. They're the same whether GAF likes it or not. In the right hands, Orbis can be better than Durango, and vice versa.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Kinect doing face tracking for online games...

 

[Maximilian E.]

So, my understanding of Durazno is that it is designed to have much stuff offloaded from CPU/GPU, giving both these more "resources" for whatever devs would want..?

Could this mean that, Durazno CPU has more resources available than Orbis, same goes for the GPU?

So whatever higher numbers Orbis has, Durazno is using its specs "better"?
Basically, 360 vs Ps3 all over again...


In any ways, both HW looks great, I wonder which machine will get some kind of exclusivity on Cyberpunk 2077 and/or Watchdogs..

 

[Ding-Ding]

The only thing that would interest me in regards to kinect (or move for that matter) is if they gave me the facility to appear on screen with the designers of said products. Just so I can take satisfaction watching as I insert their product where the sun doesn't shine!

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

More ram is always nice. Remember 7 years ago? you got 1-2GB of ram in your computer. Now thats hardly enough to run windows and a game.

Now fast forward to 5 years from now. 4GB will seem like nothing and developers might not have enough. Just like the current situation with the ps3 and 360.

The problem with his post is comparing console closed format memory to a PC. When AMD and Nvidia start releasing cards with 4-8GB of memory you'll definitely see games texture resolution as high as 32k or more.

 

[Lambda Pie]

man, i'm just happy this and Orbis will be a sizable jump over what we have now.

edit: before the PC folks intervene, i'm talking consoles.

 

[MCD]

So MS isn't doing any Wii U like controller, right?

So that would make them the only one with a regular controller shipped in the box?

 

[Razgreez]

Physical input devices are the bee's knees.

Till we develop robust synaptic link technology. Then you literally are the controller i.e Think = do = (perhaps frighteningly) feel. Effectively the matrix

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

So MS isn't doing any Wii U like controller, right?

So that would make them the only one with a regular controller shipped in the box?

Then what will you call the thing the Orbis is using? Please describe it to us all.

 

[Brad Grenz]

All the Jizz Wizards claiming Durango's special hardware makes up for the deficit admit to not knowing very much about Orbis, making it dangerous to take their word about anything. I may be willing to believe some of them have seen official information, what I doubt is their understanding and interpretation of these functions. For all we know the thing Arthur has been so tight lipped about is color and Z-compression, or something else like it that has been a standard feature in modern GPU architectures for a long time. Obviously Microsoft official documentation might play up the benefits of their custom solutions, especially relative to their previous hardware, but that's a long way from knowing Orbis doesn't offer its own, similar benefits (IE: rumored compression/decompression hardware, audio hardware and extra compute resources) that just level the playing field again. Surely Microsoft are proud of having a very efficient design, but that does not imply that Orbis is automatically inefficient.

 

[Desty]

I want at least 60 Hz (preferably 120 Hz or more) update for Kinect. I think it would be badass to combine Kinect with Oculus Rift and that needs low latency.

 

[MCD]

Then what will you call the thing the Orbis is using? Please describe it to us all.

A Wii U like controller?

Is every post a war in here? Ease up.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

A Wii U like controller?

Is every post a war in here? Ease up.

Not a war, but we don't know anything concrete about the controllers for either. In fact if we are going off rumors the last stated the PS4 controller dropped having a screen.

 

[MCD]

Not a war, but we don't know anything concrete about the controllers for either. In fact if we are going off rumors the last stated the PS4 controller dropped having a screen.

Oh...I didn't read that.

I would love having it mandatory in every box as long as they don't cheapen out on the battery like Nintendo.

 

[Danneee]

All this talk about kinect is turning me off on the nextbox.

 

[Codeblew]

So, my understanding of Durazno is that it is designed to have much stuff offloaded from CPU/GPU, giving both these more "resources" for whatever devs would want..?

Could this mean that, Durazno CPU has more resources available than Orbis, same goes for the GPU?

So whatever higher numbers Orbis has, Durazno is using its specs "better"?.

Offloaded to what? Special sauce?

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Oh...I didn't read that.

I would love having it mandatory in every box as long as they don't cheapen out on the battery like Nintendo.

Yea, I think the Nintendo Wii U should have been a warning about using a screen in a controller. Turns out it isn't a feature that is worth the cost, but could make for an interesting ancillary feature. Like full control remotely from a Vita or Surface tablet for everything.

Think Nvidia Shield like control, but totally optional and requiring another component.

 

[Reiko]

Offloaded to what? Special sauce?

It's all about efficiency.

Due to bottlenecks the 360 hit 60%. The goal is to hit 100% everytime.

 

[surly]

I would be curious to know from people here what would make them want a new, more powerful kinect. Like, what features would sell you on it.

For any motion control system all I would want is: -

1. Accuracy. Motion controls are sometimes the equivalent of having a pad where when you press a button nothing happens or when you press left, your car steers to the right. It's frustrating.

2. Low latency/lag.

3. Range. As in, it works at a closer range.

4. Games designed appropriately. I don't want to stand up and lean left and right to steer a car, unless it's part of a mini-game collection or something. I want to swing my arm to play tennis, or throw punches to box. That kind of thing. And making games like that Panzer Dragoon game just for Kinect is silly. They're just trying to get people to buy a Kinect when it could easily be made to work with a controller as well, like Child of Eden. Same thing happened with that Joyride game, which they ended up releasing on XBLA with normal controls.

I think "hardcore" gamers would be receptive to motion control games if the above could be sorted out, but a lot of people see Kinect 1.0 as broken, or something that's only useful for dancing/fitness titles.

 

[XtremeXpider]

All this talk about kinect is turning me off on the nextbox.

I really hope MS know what they are doing, but I'm afraid, even I'm reading a lot of "catastrophic" articles...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2013/01/20/sell-microsoft-now-game-over-ballmer-loses/

EDIT: Yes, all the "Durango is not for hardcores anymore" thing makes me nervous...

 

[oversitting]

The problem with his post is comparing console closed format memory to a PC. When AMD and Nvidia start releasing cards with 4-8GB of memory you'll definitely see games texture resolution as high as 32k or more.

If you say they can get around memory on closed systems. Why do Devs complain so much about PS3 and 360's small memory pool and even the small advantage of a few 10s of MB inside the 360 is relished over?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yep. He made a point of saying it very emphatically before getting on his flight earlier today. Also pointed out that if people think he has a horse in the race, they're not very bright. Something along those lines.

yeah, but who is thuway's source? i certainly don't think he has one in real life. someone on this board has been feeding him info that he's been allowed to disseminate. just two weeks ago he was crying about consoles not reaching 4+TF in power. Clearly, I don't think he's in the know. Like his avatar, he's just a parrot.

could be pro-elite -- they seem to be pretty buddy-buddy recently, and I wouldn't be keen to trust that poster at all, especially how he's been accused of running a disinformation campaign here to somehow protect his sources.

which isn't to say that his conclusion isn't ultimately correct, just I don't think thuway can be genuinely trusted.

 

[Codeblew]

It's all about efficiency.

Due to bottlenecks the 360 hit 60%. The goal is to hit 100% everytime.

I want 110% and will accept no less.

 

[enzo_gt]

I really hope MS isn't packing the tablet shit into a controller.

I thought SmartGlass was the perfect way to handle that pressure; use tablets/phones to provide auxillary, optional and periphery information the same way a second screen would on the Wii U. Enables more flexibility for players to choose how they want to handle their gaming experience, and so far SmartGlass has been pretty good except for the super touch sensitive Halo Waypoint app.

 

[clav]

I really hope MS isn't packing the tablet shit into a controller.

I thought SmartGlass was the perfect way to handle that pressure; use tablets/phones to provide auxillary, optional and periphery information the same way a second screen would on the Wii U. Enables more flexibility for players to choose how they want to handle their gaming experience, and so far SmartGlass has been pretty good except for the super touch sensitive Halo Waypoint app.

Why would MS throw away SmartGlass?

R&D resources are already poured into it.

Windows 8 senses Xboxes.

 

[Ding-Ding]

I really hope MS know what they are doing, but I'm afraid, even I'm reading a lot of "catastrophic" articles...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2013/01/20/sell-microsoft-now-game-over-ballmer-loses/

I wouldn't read much into that. The way forbes have been knocking out "is this company about to die" articles, if they were true, my local corner shop would be the only company left standing

 

[Chuck Norris]

So, my understanding of Durazno is that it is designed to have much stuff offloaded from CPU/GPU, giving both these more "resources" for whatever devs would want..?

Could this mean that, Durazno CPU has more resources available than Orbis, same goes for the GPU?

So whatever higher numbers Orbis has, Durazno is using its specs "better"?
Basically, 360 vs Ps3 all over again...


In any ways, both HW looks great, I wonder which machine will get some kind of exclusivity on Cyberpunk 2077 and/or Watchdogs..

It was PS3s complexity and lack of documentation that caused issues, should be a different story this time around

 

[nelsonroyale]

Seems like Chinese whispers

 

[oversitting]

All the Jizz Wizards claiming Durango's special hardware makes up for the deficit admit to not knowing very much about Orbis, making it dangerous to take their word about anything. I may be willing to believe some of them have seen official information, what I doubt is their understanding and interpretation of these functions. For all we know the thing Arthur has been so tight lipped about is color and Z-compression, or something else like it that has been a standard feature in modern GPU architectures for a long time. Obviously Microsoft official documentation might play up the benefits of their custom solutions, especially relative to their previous hardware, but that's a long way from knowing Orbis doesn't offer its own, similar benefits (IE: rumored compression/decompression hardware, audio hardware and extra compute resources) that just level the playing field again. Surely Microsoft are proud of having a very efficient design, but that does not imply that Orbis is automatically inefficient.

If the devs aren't complaining and the general vibe is they are simular, what does incomplete specs needs to say?

 

[surly]

I really hope MS isn't packing the tablet shit into a controller.

I would like a tablet controller if you could "remote play" any game. They could always sell another regular controller like Nintendo have with the Wii-U.

Even if it couldn't be used for that, having a smaller touchscreen in the controller would be great if Durango could run Windows Store apps - not that I'm saying it will, but it would be cool if it could. SmartGlass would work for that, but it means juggling devices.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Do these Durango specs mean that it will have Blu-Ray playback? I know it has a Blu-Ray drive, but didn't Microsoft not pay the DVD royalty and instead you had to buy a remote control in order to enable DVD playback.

 

[aegies]

I really hope MS isn't packing the tablet shit into a controller.

I thought SmartGlass was the perfect way to handle that pressure; use tablets/phones to provide auxillary, optional and periphery information the same way a second screen would on the Wii U. Enables more flexibility for players to choose how they want to handle their gaming experience, and so far SmartGlass has been pretty good except for the super touch sensitive Halo Waypoint app.

They're not packing a tablet in. They have other designs on remote play.

Do these Durango specs mean that it will have Blu-Ray playback? I know it has a Blu-Ray drive, but didn't Microsoft not pay the DVD royalty and instead you had to buy a remote control in order to enable DVD playback.

That was the plan a few years ago. I haven't seen anything to indicate otherwise.

 

[NBtoaster]

Do these Durango specs mean that it will have Blu-Ray playback? I know it has a Blu-Ray drive, but didn't Microsoft not pay the DVD royalty and instead you had to buy a remote control in order to enable DVD playback.

360 supports DVD out of the box.

 

[XtremeXpider]

I wouldn't read much into that. The way forbes have been knocking out "is this company about to die" articles, if they were true, my local corner shop would be the only company left standing

I know it but MS is not helping, MS needs to show some "goods" for user of their platforms (and I'm talking about Xbox, WP and Windows).

 

[shinra-bansho]

All the Jizz Wizards claiming Durango's special hardware makes up for the deficit admit to not knowing very much about Orbis, making it dangerous to take their word about anything.

It seemed to go from not hearing much about Orbis to knowing the specifics of the devkits...
I think a degree of skepticism is relatively healthy with regard to all the leaks and insiders.

 

[surly]

They're not packing a tablet in. They have other designs on remote play.

The rumoured Xbox Surface?