-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Knux-Future
Banned
Now THAT I agree with....
But that may be more of a NOA thing than anything...
but hey they are pushing FE..so maybe there is change there?
But yeah the non commitall attitude towards the different stuff is worth noting.
That is a legit criticism and not just "nintendo has no gaems but mario".
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I don't think anyone would care that Nintendo's announcing more of the same if they just gave us one new character/mascot action game that had the epic feel and tender loving care that you would find in a new Zelda title.
I think at the end of the day that's what many want to see.
I think at the end of the day that's what many want to see.
Interceptor
Banned
Except.. they do.
EmCeeGramr
Member
i'm more surprised by his idea that everything announced in the direct was easily predictable, including the game that we only sorta knew about because of a bizarre twist of fate leaked it and had no idea what it looked like
BruiserBear
Banned
This is by biggest complaint with Nintendo.
It seems like they've just abandoned making real Star Fox games. Waverace and F-Zero haven't been touched in a decade. Yoshi's finally getting a new game after a 15 year hiatus, but it appears to directly lift it's visual style from a previous Kirby game, instead of the superior style of Yoshi's Island.
GitarooMan
Member
This is a great example, and actually what I would love to see more of. Action/adventure games like this with different characters. I hope we see Kid Icarus on Wii U in an action/adventure game.
What the fuck? This is just flat-out false.
There's been 5 Mario (3D) in 15 years. Furthermore, Mario Sunshine and Galaxy and 64 feel different. Focusing only on the mascot is stupid. The gameplay and the atmosphere are not the same. I love my Halo, but I don't get how some people can feel it's logical to say they're trapped by legacy with Mario when a game that came out 5 years later has seen more iterations come out and they're more similar to one another.
It's because the mascot itself is in a bunch of games, but Mario Party, Mario Kart, NSMB and 3D Marios are not the same. And the first three series I named, that's where I'll agree they haven't changed all that much. But they have been on par with other franchises as far as number of releases go, it's just that two NSMB have come out within a few months from one another. That was a mistake.
About Zelda, again, same main character, totally different games. OoT to MM kept the same engine, but was not what you would expect out of a sequel. New mechanic that completely changed the game (3-days) as well as adding masks and having a different atmosphere, a darker tone. Then came Windwaker, which changed the formula up quite a lot with the big sea and the sailing. New art style too. Then, TP was much darker, and it's true that it felt more like the classic formula, but then SS came and changed a lot of things (relative to the changes made in just about any modern franchise). I mean, no game is the same and while they share the name, I see a much better situation as far as innovating within a franchise than I see in other series. No wonder AC II is one my favorite games, it felt so different from the first and from what we had before it. I bought Forza Horizon because it was different from the games before it. Nintendo is hardly a developer and publisher to be accused of being trapped by legacy.
It's because the mascot itself is in a bunch of games, but Mario Party, Mario Kart, NSMB and 3D Marios are not the same. And the first three series I named, that's where I'll agree they haven't changed all that much. But they have been on par with other franchises as far as number of releases go, it's just that two NSMB have come out within a few months from one another. That was a mistake.
About Zelda, again, same main character, totally different games. OoT to MM kept the same engine, but was not what you would expect out of a sequel. New mechanic that completely changed the game (3-days) as well as adding masks and having a different atmosphere, a darker tone. Then came Windwaker, which changed the formula up quite a lot with the big sea and the sailing. New art style too. Then, TP was much darker, and it's true that it felt more like the classic formula, but then SS came and changed a lot of things (relative to the changes made in just about any modern franchise). I mean, no game is the same and while they share the name, I see a much better situation as far as innovating within a franchise than I see in other series. No wonder AC II is one my favorite games, it felt so different from the first and from what we had before it. I bought Forza Horizon because it was different from the games before it. Nintendo is hardly a developer and publisher to be accused of being trapped by legacy.
Jest Chillin
Member
I know I personally didn't see much of it other than a clip in a montage ad/commercial.
And nobody saw FExSMT coming, not even diehard fans of either series.
I generally agree with this, but I feel that the OOT-MM-WW-TP sequence of games were all still very samey despite their differences. SS definitely feels different. I don't care much for Zelda, though.
I saw a commercial for Kid Icarus almost every day in the break room at work, so it was clearly pushed heavily on numerous channels.
I think its because you love a good argument that you're now grasping at straws with what was originally a weak counter point. He/she didn't just mention guns.
Both games are derivative. Heavily so. Whats to argue really?
EmCeeGramr
Member
yeah like those two things are apparently only mildly stirring and the only things nobody predicted
casablanca
Member
It's not fun.
Tutomos
Member
They probably do, but not to the extent people expect out of them with the type of money they were making. But like I said the expectations were not realistic.
OMG! Geist!
Had completely forgotten about this game!
Nintendo holds the IP. Would be nice to see a sequ... Oh wait... We need new IPs, rite?
Baconsammy
Banned
That literally half of Mario Kart 7 was ripped out of other Mario Kart games. The core of CoD is maps, and campaign. The core of Mario Kart are the tracks. Half of 7 is reused. To say Jim Sterling is wrong for pointing that out is silly.
Interceptor
Banned
SHIGERU MIYAMOTO:
If you're familiar with things like Popeye and some of the old comic characters, you would oftentimes see this cast of characters that takes on different roles depending on the comic or cartoon. They might be businessman in one [cartoon] or a pirate in another. Depending on the story that was being told, they would change roles. So, to a certain degree, I look at our characters in a similar way and feel that they can take on different roles in different games. It's more like they're one big family, or maybe a troupe of actors.
GAMING MEDIA:
But everything is the same - it´s the same actors!
If you're familiar with things like Popeye and some of the old comic characters, you would oftentimes see this cast of characters that takes on different roles depending on the comic or cartoon. They might be businessman in one [cartoon] or a pirate in another. Depending on the story that was being told, they would change roles. So, to a certain degree, I look at our characters in a similar way and feel that they can take on different roles in different games. It's more like they're one big family, or maybe a troupe of actors.
GAMING MEDIA:
But everything is the same - it´s the same actors!
Everyone knew Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem was coming.
Well, we knew Monolith was working on something (Elder Scrolls inspired?) and Yoshi kind of leaked through Miiverse. I give you Wind Waker. Am I missing something?
Well, what you perceive is far-removed from reality, I'm afraid. Anyone who followed Kid Icarus: Uprising closely knows that "Nintendo didn't push KI: U" is a steaming crock of shit. They pushed the game multiple times in Nintendo Directs (one was practically dedicated to it, if I remember right), there were TV ads, animated shorts on Nintendo video, I couldn't visit a single gaming site without seeing KI: U flash ads plastered all over the damned place, and so forth.
You know, it's hard to have a proper discussion when practically 90% of the people participating don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
Aquamarine
Member
Rite!!!!! After all, Tom McGod says Nintendo is TRAPPED BY LEGACY, guize.
Road of Ease
Member
Is Nintendo Trapped by Legacy? Only in the eyes of those that don't care for it. Which is fine, by the way.
But why all the projecting? There are also plenty of people who treasure legacy and are eager for the next Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, etc.
And besides, they just released a new console. There's still plenty of time for them to announce new IPs.
But why all the projecting? There are also plenty of people who treasure legacy and are eager for the next Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, etc.
And besides, they just released a new console. There's still plenty of time for them to announce new IPs.
Wonderful narrative.
Sony: creates new IP, not selling enough, IP gets abandoned.
"Sony always tries to innovate but they don´t get the success they deserve."
Nintendo: creates new IP, not selling enough, IP gets abandoned.
" Nintendo relies too much on their established IPs, is not innovating and those after IPs don´t count because they are not really known. Besides Wii Sports and Nintendogs thats just too casual."
Sony: creates new IP, not selling enough, IP gets abandoned.
"Sony always tries to innovate but they don´t get the success they deserve."
Nintendo: creates new IP, not selling enough, IP gets abandoned.
" Nintendo relies too much on their established IPs, is not innovating and those after IPs don´t count because they are not really known. Besides Wii Sports and Nintendogs thats just too casual."
Three of those are collections...
B
bomb
Unconfirmed Member
Please, enlighten me. What did Treyarch do to set themselves apart with Black Ops 2. Black Ops 1 was a watered down MW2 due to it being the only way they can figure out how to balance the game. Weakening everything from Guns, Perks, and Killstreaks. No Innovation. They were trying to make a "balanced" MW1 Clone and it was boring. Black Ops 2 is more of the same.
The guns, perks, attachments, and killstreaks MAKE COD. That is what COD is. that is why people play. You are telling me that the same Guns, Perks, Attachments, Game Modes, and Killstreaks don't matter but Rainbow Road does? BS. I would be happy if COD put in some of old maps. Oh wait, they did and CHARGED for them.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Then I'm glad we have companies like Sony who take chances
The difference is that Nintendo probably have the talent to create something new.
Probably being the operative word here. I like how people keep listing Sony franchises even though they've invested heavily into new IPs this gen. Not just small PSN/Wiiware stuff either. Big, expensive risks that mostly bombed financially yet they still keep doing it.
Right here. See. Quality discussion.
CambriaRising
Member
Removed the blatant re-releases and bundles from your list.
Edit: I should have removed the Cell Phone game as well. Its the equivalent of including Mario Paint in a list of Mario games.
Well since you've defined what constitutes the core for each game, there is no arguing then, is there?
For the record, I came in at the end, but it appears the GAF member you were debating with was merely pointing out some hypocrisy based on specific criteria.
Wyndstryker
Member
Every company is trapped by it's legacy.
Valve will forever be haunted by people asking for HL3
Nintendo will always be doomed
Square-Enix will always have Final Fantasy haunting it.
EA will forever be known for it's yearly sports releases.
Valve will forever be haunted by people asking for HL3
Nintendo will always be doomed
Square-Enix will always have Final Fantasy haunting it.
EA will forever be known for it's yearly sports releases.
There are even three animated movies and a substantial set of trading cards to collect and play with, Kid Icarus has garnered a big cult following in Japan, so yes the notion they didn't push it is factually questionable.
Jest Chillin
Member
So you have to follow a game closely to be aware of these things. Meanwhile I can't go to a 7-11 without seeing adverts for Gears or CoD.
AZ Greg
Member
I can imagine the train wreck if he actually had to argue some of his points on camera. It would be this all over again.
http://www.gamespot.com/video/quoted-for-truth-episode-14-6397419/
I was just joking, but God of War should reveive the threatment of more of the same, no?
Jest Chillin
Member
I was completely unaware of any of these things. And I don't live in Japan so Japan's trends and interests don't inform me.
Fourth Storm
Member
I have high hopes for Mario, but the author does make a valid point in the cases of Zelda and Mario Kart. Aonuma did promise to shake things up before and the results weren't really much different.
And in Mario Kart's case, I'd argue it's even worse than a Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed. The fact that they typically hold to one iteration per console means that when that long awaited title ends up being "samey," you're stuck with it until you invest in another system! There is no chance for evolution in between. Looking back, I expect another installment of MK with "just enough" for Nintendo to argue that it's a fresh experience. We shall see...
And in Mario Kart's case, I'd argue it's even worse than a Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed. The fact that they typically hold to one iteration per console means that when that long awaited title ends up being "samey," you're stuck with it until you invest in another system! There is no chance for evolution in between. Looking back, I expect another installment of MK with "just enough" for Nintendo to argue that it's a fresh experience. We shall see...
It has been. We just had people last night whining in the "Last of Us demo in GoW Ascension" thread about all of the people who were saying how tired GoW is. I'm one of those people who liked the series but enough is enough now, especially when it's yet another prequel and forcing MP into it.
CambriaRising
Member
Except that all three of those are the PC versions.
God of War is basically the same game over and over and over to be honest.
...This is what you take away from my post?