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[Wolves Evolve]

I judge game companies by their logos, and I judge Black Tusk Studios to be a studio in with men, or 'dudes' consider themselves brothers of a kind. The product of their work will appeal to other cliques of men, or 'dudes' who consider themselves brothers of a kind.

 

[Elginer]

The type of horse he rode was a Durango.

Spoiler

I made that up

LMAO Yippee kayee mofo!

 

[derFeef]

So "new" orbis info?

Looking forward to a summary of what we already know.

 

[Tripp Daily]

Looking forward to a summary of what we already know.

You WIN! (I hate letdowns like this)

 

[JaggedSac]

lol I think we can all look forward to no new info until a couple months from now.

 

[FrankT]

durango special sauce is a second gpu.

So we went from
Durango > Orbis
Orbis > Durango
Durango > Orbis

And it will probably flip flop some more in the upcoming months.

Oh I think you are right on that latter point. Feeling pretty good after the latest Orbis "leak", but still would like to know more about this GPU. Have a feeling we are going to get little until reveal.

 

[blackmage2k3]

Is it me or does the DDR3 bandwidth not make sense? The DDR3 is pool of RAM that is used by the GPU and the OS/Misc.

Where is the 68GB/s bandwidth coming from? DDR3 has no where close to these numbers (68GB/s).

A quad channel set up creates a maximum of around 42Gb/s with DDR3 2133. Thus most PC's being Dual channel and using DDR3 1600 i.e not able to generate bandwidth close to 68Gb/s.

The intel x79 platform with a Corei7 3960x doesn't even manage to really use the additional channels and bandwidth to any significant gain/benefit.

Where is this magical DDR3 speed/bandwidth coming from? I'm pretty sure Jaguar would be a dual channel setup at most.... I just don't understand where this 68GB/s bandwidth is coming from?

Also Microsoft used GDDR3 in the Xbox 360 why would they suddenly use DDR3? the DDR3 spec doesn't have memory that can provide the 68GB/s bandwidth unless they have some custom made DDR3 which will be expensive, then there's the problem of dual channel...




I think a 5GB GDDR5 makes much more sense similar to the rumored Orbis specs

 

[FrankT]

I say just throw out the 8 and put in 6GB of the GDDR5. Cap the OS and what not to no more than 2.

Is there even a need for the esram at that point....

 

[lightchris]

Where is the 68GB/s bandwidth coming from? DDR3 has no where close to these numbers (68GB/s).

A quad channel set up creates a maximum of around 42Gb/s with DDR3 2133. Thus most PC's being Dual channel and using DDR3 1600 i.e not able to generate bandwidth close to 68Gb/s.

Where are you getting these numbers from?
DDR3-2133 @ single channel is 17 GB/s. That's 68 GB/s with quad channel.

Also Microsoft used GDDR3 in the Xbox 360 why would they suddenly use DDR3?

GDDR3 is based on DDR2. DDR3 is cheaper than GDDR5.

 

[clashfan]

durango special sauce is a second gpu.

So we went from
Durango > Orbis
Orbis > Durango
Durango > Orbis

And it will probably flip flop some more in the upcoming months.

I'm not sure what to believe anymore? I went away this weekend and things seems to have changed again. What is going on?

 

[jbug617]

I'm not sure what to believe anymore? I went away this weekend and things seems to have changed again. What is going on?

I'm going on the theory that some of these are wrong and will wait ill E3

 

[Can Crusher]

I'm not sure what to believe anymore? I went away this weekend and things seems to have changed again. What is going on?

Orbis picture is getting clearer, and it's getting harder to understand how Durango will be able to perform on the same level on available info.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Orbis picture is getting clearer, and it's getting harder to understand how Durango will be able to perform on the same level on available info.

What do you mean? They both will have the same CPU. The GPUs will be nearly identical. It's the RAM that will be different based on the info. Orbis could have the Cell for physics calculation and BC. The 360's Xenon can be used for the same thing.

 

[Can Crusher]

What do you mean? They both will have the same CPU. The GPUs will be nearly identical. It's the RAM that will be different based on the info. Orbis could have the Cell for physics calculation and BC. The 360's Xenon can be used for the same thing.

They are both using the same CPU (unless they changed anything) but they aren't using the same GPUs at all according to rumors. It's not just the ram that is different.

Cell and Xenon aren't in, Orbis is using 4 CUs for physics and such.

 

[iamshadowlark]

So "new" orbis info?

There is new info. This paints orbis' picture clearer than its ever been, if true.

 

[cyberheater]

They are both using the same CPU (unless they changed anything) but they aren't using the same GPUs at all according to rumors. It's not just the ram that is different.

Cell and Xenon aren't in, Orbis is using 4 CUs for physics and such.

Yes but for some reason we're seeing a lot more leaks relative to Orbis. I'm sure when we know more about Durango, we will see them more evenly matched.

A few devs have already indicated that they are very close in terms of performance.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Ocellatus]

Many people seem to be feeling like there is something missing from the Durango specs. What if the Memory spec is wrong (on purpose possibly) and it's actually 8GB of GDDR5 opposed to DDR3?

 

[FrankT]

Many people seem to be feeling like there is something missing from the Durango specs. What if the Memory spec is wrong (on purpose possibly) and it's actually 8GB of GDDR5 opposed to DDR3?

Then there will be tears. Ya never know with MS.

 

[cyberheater]

Many people seem to be feeling like there is something missing from the Durango specs. What if the Memory spec is wrong (on purpose possibly) and it's actually 8GB of GDDR5 opposed to DDR3?

That would be a MEGATON!!!

 

[gaming_noob]

Many people seem to be feeling like there is something missing from the Durango specs. What if the Memory spec is wrong (on purpose possibly) and it's actually 8GB of GDDR5 opposed to DDR3?

That would create a heat issue, wouldn't it? Multiple rumors and reports have "confirmed" DDR3...we should stop dreaming.

 

[Draft]

Many people seem to be feeling like there is something missing from the Durango specs. What if the Memory spec is wrong (on purpose possibly) and it's actually 8GB of GDDR5 opposed to DDR3?

That's a whole lot of GDDR5 for a box focused on Zune Store movie rentals.

 

[deanos]

That's a whole lot of GDDR5 for a box focused on Zune Store movie rentals.

lol.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

So can more ram at a slower speed outdo less ram at a faster speed? Or does it ultimately come down to the speed/total and the actual amount of ram doesn't matter? Im just not incredibly tech savvy, so a lot of the Orbis and Durango stuff is going over my head.. I can't put the consoles power into perspective.

 

[QaaQer]

So can more ram at a slower speed outdo less ram at a faster speed? Or does it ultimately come down to the speed/total and the actual amount of ram doesn't matter? Im just not incredibly tech savvy, so a lot of the Orbis and Durango stuff is going over my head.. I can't put the consoles power into perspective.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62108

 

[FrankT]

If that Vg site that leaked out the latest BC rumor is correct there is something off about the 8GBs ram as well.

 

[kpjolee]

So can more ram at a slower speed outdo less ram at a faster speed? Or does it ultimately come down to the speed/total and the actual amount of ram doesn't matter? Im just not incredibly tech savvy, so a lot of the Orbis and Durango stuff is going over my head.. I can't put the consoles power into perspective.

I think in terms of pure performance, Sony is approach of doing 4GB of faster memory is better than MS's approach of 8GB of slower memory compensated with embedded memory, but MS seems to have lot more planned with their other functionality within the box so they may have opted to go with more memory.

 

[kutthoat5150]

That's a whole lot of GDDR5 for a box focused on Zune Store movie rentals.

 

[Sporran]

Then there will be tears. Ya never know with MS.

Your faith in MS is not shared by those in the enterprise environment

 

[FrankT]

Your faith in MS is not shared by those in the enterprise environment

They got rid of too many of the go to guys early on this gen. They have changed before when asked and it was costly, but nooooo question it was the right choice. This change may not even cost to that degree if done right.

 

[Sporran]

They got rid of too many of the go to guys early on this gen. They have changed before when asked and it was costly, but nooooo question it was the right choice. This change may not even cost to that degree if done right.

Not sure what shit this meant my point still stands. Consoles dont = enterprise.

 

[FrankT]

Not sure what shit this meant my point still stands. Consoles dont = enterprise.

And I'm definitely not sure the point you are attempting to make either heh.

 

[iceatcs]

It is pretty obvious why MS went to 8GB, because kinect functions will be part of the multi-task OS standards that will have lot of data going on, require large memory footprint. MS can go for GDDR5 but only can afford for room up to 4GB which it is not enough for spare from take away from reserved. DDR3 is better opinion for them.

 

[FrankT]

I still think 2 and 4 would do it. I can see a lot overhead with 5 gbs for games.

 

[cyberheater]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62108

A very interesting discussion. I really hope MS goes for faster memory or at least has reasonably large cache pools of fast memory.

 

[Sporran]

And I'm definitely not sure the point you are attempting to make either heh.

re-read

 

[eso76]

Many people seem to be feeling like there is something missing from the Durango specs. What if the Memory spec is wrong (on purpose possibly) and it's actually 8GB of GDDR5 opposed to DDR3?

Gddr5 is unlikely, I think. Not 8 GB of it anyway.
Stacked DDR 3 maybe ?
Anyway looks like something just doesn't add up in Durango specs.
Between bandwidth and GPU Orbis seems to have a clear advantage, sure they're still roughly in the same ballpark, but...

Idk, how much do you think GPU customization costed ? Ms had a very large team at amd working on the GPU, I would think it was worth it, or they could have saved money on r&d and used the money to cover a small initial loss from more powerful components, instead (better hardware allows you to stay on the market longer, and the longer the generation lasts the more profitable your console is in the long run).

Everything considered, I'd even go as far as claiming we...still have no idea.

 

[cyberheater]

It is pretty obvious why MS went to 8GB, because kinect functions will be part of the multi-task OS standards that will have lot of data going on, require large memory footprint. MS can go for GDDR5 but only can afford for room up to 4GB which it is not enough for spare from take away from reserved. DDR3 is better opinion for them.

If 4Gb of GDDR5 is not enough for a Kinect game that I wonder what the hell do they need more memory for. The data set requirements for Kinect are relatively minimal. 4Gb is a huge amount of memory for a console.

 

[shinobi602]

What do you mean? They both will have the same CPU. The GPUs will be nearly identical. It's the RAM that will be different based on the info. Orbis could have the Cell for physics calculation and BC. The 360's Xenon can be used for the same thing.

Who said their GPUs will be nearly identical?

 

[QaaQer]

Gddr5 is unlikely, I think. Not 8 GB of it anyway.
Stacked DDR 3 maybe ?
Anyway looks like something just doesn't add up in Durango specs.
Between bandwidth and GPU Orbis seems to have a clear advantage, sure they're still roughly in the same ballpark, but...

Idk, how much do you think GPU customization costed ? Ms had a very large team at amd working on the GPU, I would think it was worth it, or they could have saved money on r&d and used the money to cover a small initial loss from more powerful components, instead (better hardware allows you to stay on the market longer, and the longer the generation lasts the more profitable your console is in the long run).

Everything considered, I'd even go as far as claiming we...still have no idea.

I forget who, but one poster was talking about market positioning. If MS is going after a different demo than Sony, a console that has kinect2 + weaker hardware + wii-appeal could outsell a strong PS4 by a large margin.

MS doesn't need to play hardware power games either. They have the $ to moneyhat devs, to stick the xbox logo on the end of all game commercials, and to market the shit out of whatever they are selling. The number of console buyers who even know what digitalfoundry is is minuscule.

Much more compelling will be the kinect2 ads with people dancing, kids jumping up and down, etc than looking at the quality of tessellation or whatever.

 

[Satchel]

It is pretty obvious why MS went to 8GB, because kinect functions will be part of the multi-task OS standards that will have lot of data going on, require large memory footprint. MS can go for GDDR5 but only can afford for room up to 4GB which it is not enough for spare from take away from reserved. DDR3 is better opinion for them.

All of Kinects current processing work is done by the 360. The 360 reserves 32MB for the OS.

If MS does use 3GB for the OS, it'll be to make sure it's lightning fast all the time, and to allow for true multitasking like the WiiU allows.

Browsing YouTube guides while playing WiiU games is fucking awesome. But I assume the new Xbox will allow for even more functions given its 3GB. I also assume that some of that power will go towards the multi screen functions of the Xbox surface too.

 

[thuway]

I say just throw out the 8 and put in 6GB of the GDDR5. Cap the OS and what not to no more than 2.

Is there even a need for the esram at that point....

Do you realize how stupid you sound? These decisions were made atleast a year ago in advance. In order to make any "small" change, you spend 500 million. Good luck with that son.

 

[FrankT]

Do you realize how stupid you sound? These decisions were made atleast a year ago in advance. In order to make any "small" change, you spend 500 million. Good luck with that son.

Are you kidding me. The upgrade Epic asked for was $1 billion ( this in a time the division was much worse off). Doesn't matter to me I'm only speculating here and since when did you become an expert and insider at all this. Last time I remember you were far from that but it seems everybody now is hanging on your words of wisdom.

 

[TheOddOne]

Still suprised by stingy way 720 info has been leaking, while the PS4 specs has had major analysis by people.

 

[Satchel]

Are you kidding me. The upgrade Epic asked for was $1 billion ( this in a time the division was much worse off). Doesn't matter to me I'm only speculating here and since when did you become an expert and insider at all this. Last time I remember you were far from that but it seems everybody now is hanging on your words of wisdom.

That's the part I've been finding strange in all this. Always thought he was never much of a Microsoft fan either.

 

[Proelite]

Are you kidding me. The upgrade Epic asked for was $1 billion ( this in a time the division was much worse off). Doesn't matter to me I'm only speculating here and since when did you become an expert and insider at all this. Last time I remember you were far from that but it seems everybody now is hanging on your words of wisdom.

Last time it worked for 360 because they had 512mb devkits that they repurposed to be the final skits.

That's why devkits for the 360 were stuck at 512mb for the longest time.

Thuway is right, any upgrades since mid 2012 is out of the picture.

 

[FrankT]

That's the part I've been finding strange in all this. Always thought he was never much of a Microsoft fan either.

I've take major breaks from GAF as I've tempered my gaming time, but I have not forgotten him by any means. Now the insider and expert apparently.

 

[FrankT]

Last time it worked for 360 because they had 512mb devkits that they repurposed to be the final skits.

That's why devkits for the 360 were stuck at 512mb for the longest time.

Thuway is right, any upgrades since mid 2012 is out of the picture.

Oh I don't really doubt that is the case at this venture but if that one rumor about BC is correct then someone is wrong about the 8gbs as well.

 

[szaromir]

I've take major breaks from GAF as I've tempered my gaming time, but I have not forgotten him by any means. Now the insider and expert apparently.

Yeah, I seem to remember him campaigning for PS3 supremacy a lot back in 2008/09. Or even nowadays he posts messages like this one, how he's managed to become a respected source regarding next-gen hardware eludes me.

 

[TheOddOne]

I think he is fine, but I do wonder if he was in know how he didn't get the CU info. Like, those things have to be locked for a long while now, no?

 

[eso76]

I forget who, but one poster was talking about market positioning. If MS is going after a different demo than Sony, a console that has kinect2 + weaker hardware + wii-appeal could outsell a strong PS4 by a large margin.

That I could understand, but why invest so much in r&d on the GPU, specifically ?
Assuming the rumours claiming they had such a large team at amd working on the GPU hold true, of course.
if they were going for the wii-appeal, why pick a 'weaker' GPU and have engineers customise it to make it better/ more 'powerful' ?
Why not just pick a more powerful off-the shelf one ?
I doubt it's going to be cheaper this way...


What I mean is they probably thought those customisations would give them an advantage over simply picking a faster GPU, so I'm inclined to believe it's something rather special.