wouldnt they just be able to sort of retrofit/emulate certain parts of PS3 (RAM/RSX) to the PS4 hardware and then just use the exclusive PS3 hardware such as cell on the add-on? Also... they don't have to use USB as the connector.. could use some other proprietary connector for it...
VGleaks: Orbis Unveiled! [Updated]
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
wouldnt they just be able to sort of retrofit/emulate certain parts of PS3 (RAM/RSX) to the PS4 hardware and then just use the exclusive PS3 hardware such as cell on the add-on? Also... they don't have to use USB as the connector.. could use some other proprietary connector for it...
The problem with Gaikai is that it's kinda designed around PC architecture. And if PCs could run PS3 games, the PS4 could. If they use a bunch of rack-mounted PS3s for Gaikai, they have to throw away a lot of the tech they built up for lag-reduction and server efficiency.
The PS4 is being made by AMD, who's familiar with modern motherboard chipsets. A 16x PCI Express 3.0 slot would only have to contain the Cell. The only problem is the costs for engineering in a slot like that might exceed simply including the Cell, I don't know.
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
Durangos gpu is heavily costumized so it doesn't matter what they use as you can't really compare.
For orbis it would make a big difference since the console is a pc for the most part and gpus are comparable. There is still one Dev kit in the summer but by then they would already move into production for launch.
I played lot of PS1 games in first couple of years on PS2, same with PS3. PS has a pattern of getting really good games at near end of the cycle, so BC mattered.
Exactly. I agree wholeheartedly.
pharmboy044
Member
Don't be narrow minded. We aren't just taking about disc based games. It's all that PSN content that has been built up in the PSN store for the past six years. Without BC, you're basically throwing all that away for a PS4 user.
Also profiles, people expect their digital content to migrate over to the new hardware. If this does not happen then consumers will lose faith in Sony's digital platform.
Not if you own a PS3.
somuchwater
Member
I'm not sure an anecdotal sample will matter much. The point is this: is whatever cost associated with adding BC to the PS4 worth it in terms of either PSN sales, or boost/damage to the brand amongst the early adopters who are most likely the buy the console at launch.
I don't really know the answer to that question, but if even phosphor is saying it's looking unlikely...
It's fascinating, though, as Sony is really between a rock and a hard place: include it and incur significant cost; don't, and you piss off the hardcore and make PSN/PSN+ a much harder sell.
This mindset isn't acceptable anymore now that PSN exists. With a digital store, BC is a necessity. Period.
They won't make PS3's forever, and your PS3 will eventually break. I shouldn't have to buy a separate console to use my digital library.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Come on, both systems are based on AMD parts, just modified for specifics. Neither one is a PC and neither one is "heavily customized". AMD CPU cores and AMD GPU tech. They are far more related than any consoles in the past, practically cousins.
My 60gig is still running, and I've got 2 other slims that are fine.
They don't need to support PS3 BC, but they can add PSN BC (for PSN exclusives) and leave PS3 content on the PS3 store. Much like how you can't play Vita content on your PS3, you won't be able to play PS3 content on your PS4.
R10Neymarfan
Member
Some people like options. Some people want to make space. Some people want to move their other consoles to different rooms to use as a blu ray player or what else. PS3s will break in the future.
A specific high bandwidth connector from the outside directly to the PS4 processors or memory would add significant extra costs in every unit for something that most people won't use (not many people will buy the add on in first place). I'd rule out this add-on solution completely.
The options are three: premium SKU with hardware based BC, Gaikai streaming for non premium models, software emulation when they figure it out how to implement it similarly to PS2 emulation in PS3.
That is unless the PS4 hardware has been engineered to make software emulation possibile since the beginning.
Yup.
BC is great, but necessary only in the first couple of years.
Then again, losing all the PSN stuff would be a bummer indeed.
painful fart
Member
Cant see my self login into the PSN Store on both the PS3 and PS4 to check out what´s new, on sale etc.
If they cut away most of the current PSN content for the PS4 user I think Sony is shoting them self in the feet.
Well, I farfethed the other day and it definitely came out backwards, so that could only be good news..
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
I like how all this changes from day to day.
So now Durango is using a Sea Islands GPU?
ed
They're custom in the sense that they're unified hardware that we probably won't see in the wild.
Right, but alternatives do they have? I mean of course having BC would be fantastic, but if it means having a less performing machine? I don't know.
I buy a PS4 for new stuff, BC is a (good) plus.
And you have Virtual Consoles/Classics rereleases + PC emulation anyway.
Can Crusher
Banned
Now?
That rumor has been around for some time now. Not that it matters btw, we will know soon enough. Rumors and speculation won't change what's in these boxes.
BC is something we used to with PS2, and PS3 in some.extent. Losing BC with PS4 would be like losing a core feature we used to have with Playstation consoles.
If PS consoles never had BC then it would be something really nice extra to have but the problem is that we are used to seeing BC.
If PS consoles never had BC then it would be something really nice extra to have but the problem is that we are used to seeing BC.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
I thought this forum pegged it as a 680 equiv?
Its really sad to see what this forum has become.
PS3 offered nothing in terms of real-world gaming rendering performance compared to the cheaper 360, THIS is the problem and to use your own words; fucking idiot.
and some people dont want to pay for other people's options.
There will be no BC unless it can be fully emulated. It will likely not be fully emulated.
It is hard to calculate but Sony might have lost $500 million to emulate PS2 in PS3. Thrown into wind. Why in the world would they do it again? No chance.
Plus there would be rumors about this as they would have to certify compatibility again, like they did with PS2.
Yeah. Which is why people paid hundreds of dollars premium for a Wii once upon a time. You need to understand that the average person does not think a DualShock or 360 controller is 'a simple input device'. And people really need to stop throwing around the word 'gimmick' as if it's something without value. The Wii proved immensely valuable, as did Kinect, as did that touchscreen Apple used on its phone.
As much as people want to delude themselves in this thread, the odds of Sony or MS releasing a console in the future without something akin to motion control as a standard part of the package are piss-poor. Why? Because the market has shown a strong interest in this.
The one company that didn't have a successful motion control application - ie. Sony - also lost the most money this generation. If you think this is accidental or coincidence, you're kidding yourself.
You didnt in the post I was replying to.
AstroNut325
Member
I would like to say... AMEN.
Yes it's very sad indeed.
somuchwater
Member
Agreed, mostly.
As much as people have been saying "Durango = multimedia box", "Orbis = gaming", media functions are vital to the viability of any modern console, as it's a key way that they extend out beyond the hardcore base to sell in the tens of millions.
An easy way to control things is a part of that, and I hope that both Sony and Microsoft include some way for non-gamers to interact with the OS and Netflix, Amazon Video, Xbox Video/SEN etc etc
painful fart
Member
Right, but alternatives do they have? I mean of course having BC would be fantastic, but if it means having a less performing machine? I don't know.
I buy a PS4 for new stuff, BC is a (good) plus.
And you have Virtual Consoles/Classics rereleases + PC emulation anyway.
Yeah, I don´t see an easy solution for BC either, the Cell would be damn hard to emulate in SW given the current specs. BC in hw probably costs to much.
Sony used to make a really big deal about BC, but that was under Kutaragi era, still the online stores that offer cheap dsitribution of old content should really be a big driver to keep BC.
For what it's worth, I don't think the PS3's price should be placed in isolation and used as THE reason the system had so much trouble. There were other factors which helped make that price seem more unreasonable. I'm not 100% convinced that the market would outright reject a $599 system no matter what it brought to the table.
At the same time, I cannot say what a successful $599 console would look like, but I imagine it would be a convergent device.
At the same time, I cannot say what a successful $599 console would look like, but I imagine it would be a convergent device.
pr0cs
Member
They either support BC or they don't, they can't cherry pick PSN BC for digital download content, the PS4 will either support BC or not.
If they don't support BC you can bet I will *not* be buying any PSN content for the PS4. The same will hold true for durango. If BC is not supported, especially for my digital content I will abandon digital downloads for that platform. I don't consider digital games 'throw away content' and with them not supporting BC they're effectively throwing it away.
somuchwater
Member
Understandable, but it's possible that neither Sony nor MS fully understood how important digital catalogues were when they designed the PS3 and 360, and now they're simply stuck.
It's likely that backward compatibility will be maintained from this gen going forward, especially with this switch to x86. The only question, of course, is whether there will be a new gen after PS4/720.
They now have the PSN store. That's hundreds of extra potential sales both day one and throughout the rest of the next generation.
Should go without saying but many people are not in the same situation to just move a console to another TV in another room conveniently. It's extremely nice and convenient to be able to replace a console with a new one and be able to continue to play your former library of games. Also helps ease the cost of a new console to be able to trade it in towards the new one.
How does buying physical media alleviate the problem of content becoming 'throw away'? If ps4 has no BC, PS3 discs will be as useless as PS3 DD purchases.
Only if you don't have a PS3... Again.
Pretty much the only reason PS3 was able to sell at $599 was that it was the successor of the most popular console ever and brand power of Playstation was at its peak.
Too sell at $599 price point, it has to be the most attractive device compared to literally all other $599 electronic devices out there to make a big seller..and that would be unbelievably hard task.
i did in my previous post. Plus the 599 US dollars thing is so popular it doesn't even need to be explained imo, but.....
pr0cs
Member
considering how much grief the 360 got for having simplified BC there is no way in hell they underestimated how important BC is. especially when they keep touting how much money digital content downloads make on xbox live.
Feigning ignorance is not an excuse for not supporting people's paid content on either companies network.
And no the BS response (just use your PS3) is not a viable option. What happens in a year or two and my PS3 dies? They're not going to make PS3s forever. That content I bought on it is orphaned forever which is fucking ridiculous and shows they have no interest in my continuing to purchase content on their network.
phosphor112
Banned
Doesn't matter if it can't even do 128-bit operations. That was the bread and butter for SPE calculations.
And servers to emulate PS3's out of now where. Magic Wizard Sauce or something.
If they don't have BC I'm taking the opportunity to move to PC gaming exclusively. I'm not interested in having to hook up multiple boxes just to have legacy support especially when modern consoles don't have the best track record in regards to life expectancies. "You already own a PS3" is no longer reasonable to me when I've already had to replace PS3s because of hardware failure.
To answer your question I used the BC in the PS2 & PS3 quite a bit, particularly in the first year or two after purchase. I still play 10-20 year old PC games with regularity.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. If you're not going to support your ecosystem on future hardware I have no interest being a part of it. I'll take my wallet elsewhere and dump thousands of dollars there.
The Sony iConsoleTAB. Lol.
I dont see any difference between physical and digital BC. Either way you will either be able to play the content on your new device, or you'll have to keep your old device. What's the difference?
That said, I do think BC is an effective tool to lock people into your ecosystem so it is smart to include it. It worked with Microsoft with Windows and Apple with iOS.
if your ps3 dies you won't be able to play disc-based games either. that has nothing to do with digital purchases
That said, I do think BC is an effective tool to lock people into your ecosystem so it is smart to include it. It worked with Microsoft with Windows and Apple with iOS.
if your ps3 dies you won't be able to play disc-based games either. that has nothing to do with digital purchases
0s and 1s on a disc are inferior...
AltogetherAndrews
Banned
Well, it certainly did when compared to the system that launched at essentially the same time, and it did offer something very big for the supposedly all-important home entertainment aspect of the console. I sure remember when that was considered a game changer among the brights of this forum. And it failed, because of its price.
No matter how you twist it, you are arguing for a far more expensive system to be released into a market that has very recently shown a complete intolerance of precisely that, even when the performance differences have been blatantly different. And to add to that, you also dream up a dark threat that will overtake a notoriously difficult market based on system capability alone, and at a high price. Who cares that we also constantly see cases of PC games being held back in order to serve the console base, it would sure be different this time!
It's just unbelieavably numbskulled given what we have just seen happen.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Alternately you could say Android is growing just fine, despit iOS having a dominate early position. Many people bought a 360 after owning a PS2, despite the PS3's BC for the first year. The Wii sold a butt load and most of the owners never even heard of the GC.
pr0cs
Member
so the PS4 is not using BD technology?