VGleaks: Orbis Unveiled! [Updated]

Because the console market has said that, you fucking idiot. Not long ago, Sony attempted to release an expensive system, packed with a blu-ray player, by way of flashing its (supposed) power and features around, and was left eating the dust of a console that was at best a tiny bump up from its predecessor in terms of power and has had a hell of a time getting into an even race with a similar but cheaper console that actually lacked one key big feature. Granted that the Wii had its hook, but it really shouldn't be this fucking hard to understand why people have a hard time stomaching this genial idea you (and at one point, Sony) have of releasing an expensive console for the sake of bells and whistles.

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I dont see any difference between physical and digital BC

That's because there isn't any difference. If you can run PS3 digital content you can run the physical content as well so long as you have a blu ray drive. They're both coded to run on the same hardware.
 
That's because there isn't any difference. If you can run PS3 digital content you can run the physical content as well so long as you have a blu ray drive. They're both coded to run on the same hardware.

People don't realize this enough. You actually need a Bluray drive to play PSN games... Yes, digital download games and you need the bluray drive, because it uses it for authentication or something like that.
 
In all fairness the other guy has been throwing around those same two words.

There is no "fairness" Either you fallow Gaf eula or not. I saw people banned for a lot lesser things. Personal calling each other is straight way for ban.

Just a tip from long gaf lurker and user from a year or two.
 
Too sell at $599 price point, it has to be the most attractive device compared to literally all other $599 electronic devices out there to make a big seller..and that would be unbelievably hard task.

Attractiveness doesn't mean it has to outperform all these other $599 devices - just that it does something very valuable that these others do not. And preferably it would do this first, thus acting as the innovator rather than the follower (which Sony has been doing a lot of lately).
 
Come on, both systems are based on AMD parts, just modified for specifics. Neither one is a PC and neither one is "heavily customized". AMD CPU cores and AMD GPU tech. They are far more related than any consoles in the past, practically cousins.

Bruuuuhahahahaaaaathaaaaaa's From a-nuthaaaaaa Muhuhuhuuuuuuthaaaaaaaaaaaa
 
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This is what Im thinking. 2 kabini dies taped together + extra GCN graphics segment.

It means the 4 CUs aren't going to be useful for graphics unless you want to jump through a lot of hoops. It would also be perfect for compute operations. Also makes a lot of sense considering Kabini is 4 jaguar cores + 2 GCN CUs.
 
PsEAfdF.png

This is what Im thinking. 2 kabini dies taped together + extra GCN graphics segment.

It means the 4 CUs aren't going to be useful for graphics unless you want to jump through a lot of hoops. It would also be perfect for compute operations. Also makes a lot of sense considering Kabini is 4 jaguar cores + 2 GCN CUs.

so how do you get 32 rops from that?
 
32 rops inside the gpu segment is possible.

AMD splits their architecture per CU. I'm not seeing how you include parts of the CU in one side and then partition off other parts of the same CU to another side. The floor plan is totally off. Could you explain where I'm going wrong please?
 
Render backends aren't part of the CUs. At least, in AMD's logical block diagrams of GCN.

However if VGLeak's system diagram is from Sony's docs, it doesn't suggest the 4 CUs live outside the GPU side of the system. But maybe it's not.
 
AMD splits their architecture per CU. I'm seeing not how you include parts of the CU in one side and then partition off other parts of the same CU to another side. The floor plan is totally off. Could you explain where I'm going wrong please?

part of the CU is the APU segment. and the part outside the dedicated GPU segment. AMD can put 32ROPs on 14CU if they want. Its just speculation but it makes sense to me.

Also the floor plan isn't supposed to be accurate. Its just a rough sketch.
 
The amount of arch difference between GCN and GCN2 is minimal.

I didn't say otherwise. I also won't pretend to know how this will affect performance, nor will I pretend to know how meaningful the architectural differences may be in a closed box.

I'll leave that for the knows it all of the world.

But the Sauce!

Was this a jab at what I said?

Ugh, Sony gaf really is unbearable. Jesus Christ.
 
But the Sauce!
From the looks of it, the sauce seems to be in Orbis' GPU only at the moment. It sounds a more customized part wrt the 14+4 split.

I didn't say otherwise. I also won't pretend to know how this will affect performance, nor will I pretend to know how meaningful the architectural differences may be in a closed box.

I'll leave that for the knows it all of the world.
Fair enough.

Was this a jab at what I said?

Ugh, Sony gaf really is unbearable. Jesus Christ.
How did you get Sony bias out of that post?
 
PsEAfdF.png

This is what Im thinking. 2 kabini dies taped together + extra GCN graphics segment.

It means the 4 CUs aren't going to be useful for graphics unless you want to jump through a lot of hoops. It would also be perfect for compute operations. Also makes a lot of sense considering Kabini is 4 jaguar cores + 2 GCN CUs.

That's the deal with them. They can be used for GPU purposes but it will be costly and not easy. So developers should focus on what you can do with them outside of rendering. Physic, animations etc. That is why i find it good solution. Essentialy those are like ageia hardware only purpose is to help offload GPU from stuff like physic and focus full power of GPU on bells and whistles. They also added DSP hardware to offload CPU from audio.

Also as Shifty Gazer from B3D said that it is really unusual and this may have much bigger implications than just physic calculations.
 
The amount of arch difference between GCN and GCN2 is minimal.

Anybody who brings up GCN 2 or 2.0 is only highlighting their ignorance since i'm pretty sure nobody actually knows the details of the architecture besides AMD - if there are any hardware changes at all that is
 
Render backends aren't part of the CUs. At least, in AMD's logical block diagrams of GCN.

It isn't? That's new to me. Might be my mistaken memory. I thought each cluster was a graphic core next. CU or Compute unit for short. But time to dive into that again me thinks.


However if VGLeak's system diagram is from Sony's docs, it doesn't suggest the 4 CUs live outside the GPU side of the system. But maybe it's not.

Yes. This makes more sense to me.
 
How did you get Sony bias out of that post?

Well because I tell someone who expected to see GCN2 in next gen consoles that Durango might have a GCN2 gpu according to rumors, somebody else seems to become bothered by this rumor, you tell me that GCN2 won't bring anything but a minimal difference and then somebody else comes in to throw a "but the sauce" joke, trying to imply that in the course of this discussion somebody tried to bring out the "durango has secret sauce" card.

Really, it stinks of insecurity. I was just talking about a rumor.

Probably due to his own bias.

Of course, I'm an xbot. What other reason could it be?!
 
It isn't? That's new to me. Might be my mistaken memory. I thought each cluster was a graphic core next. CU or Compute unit for short. But time to dive into that again me thinks.

Here's a diagram:

P5BxGi8.jpg


The render backends are the things on the sides of the block of CUs.
 
part of the CU is the APU segment. and the part outside the dedicated GPU segment. AMD can put 32ROPs on 14CU if they want. Its just speculation but it makes sense to me.

Also the floor plan isn't supposed to be accurate. Its just a rough sketch.

After reading gofreak's post,it suddenly strikes me that all the gpus have 32 rops, no? so number of compute units make no difference to that. Texture units do scale up, though, right?
brb. going to check...

edit: @above.. oh interesting..
 
So by now is it 100% sure Orbis will more powerful than Durango?

Its all just speculation on what is supposedly the set CPU/GPU combo. We won't know until each system is formerly announced with specs and custom parts detailed. I think they'll be fairly close each having a slight advantage in a certain area kind of like the current gen.
 
Comment at the VGLeaks article:

JCanonn 28 January, 2013 at 20:46 Reply
computer units are

L1 16kb cache
LDS 64kb
4 texture units
4 units vector/4 register vectors (with 16ALU x Vector unit (total of 64ALU x CU))
1 scalar unit/1 scalar register

update it again now xD

New? Posted?
 
After reading gofreak's post,it suddenly strikes me that all the gpus have 32 rops, no? so number of compute units make no difference to that. Texture units do scale up, though, right?
brb. going to check...

edit: @above.. oh interesting..

Texture units are part of the CU so there would be only 56 of them if 4 CUs are reserved for compute.
 
Anybody who brings up GCN 2 or 2.0 is only highlighting their ignorance since i'm pretty sure nobody actually knows the details of the architecture besides AMD - if there are any hardware changes at all that is
From what I can see of GCN2, it doesn't seem to be that much of an upgrade. And as I pointed out last page, VGleaks Durango spec sheets point to GCN cores, unless of course it's as you say an there are minimal hardware changes.
 
Its all just speculation on what is supposedly the set CPU/GPU combo. We won't know until each system is formerly announced with specs and custom parts detailed. I think they'll be fairly close each having a slight advantage in a certain area kind of like the current gen.

Alright that's true..we're fighting over speculation here. I wish Iherre/Arne/Stinkles could chime in a bit.
 
Texture units are part of the CU so there would be only 56 of them if 4 CUs are reserved for compute.

All the CUs have the same texture sampling hardware. If a CU didn't have texture units it wouldn't be able to read data D: (I think!) And the CUs aren't prescribed/reserved for any one particular task even if they are tweaked or arranged optimally for that task...

The leaked info is pretty clear that all 18 CUs have texturing hardware anyway.
 
HC24. Where Jaguar apu, plus steamroller, plus socs etc was discussed. Videos, docs, pdfs, etc.. Hot chip conference the autumn that just went by:

http://www.hotchips.org/archives/hc24

edit: plus 2.5d stacking, tsv etc...
edit: Plus roadmaps for surround computing... plus floorplans for trinity... lots and lots of stuff.
 
Alright that's true..we're fighting over speculation here. I wish Iherre/Arne/Stinkles could chime in a bit.


llherre already said both consoles will be a wash in power.

You won't hear anything from Arne and Stinkles unless you want to see them executed by their employers.
 
Alright that's true..we're fighting over speculation here. I wish Iherre/Arne/Stinkles could chime in a bit.

Ilherre already chimed in before. The latest spec information doesn't change anything, as his comments were made already knowing the "latest" info.

Expect a Ps3 - 360 difference(Ilherre). IMO that's a significant difference for someone like me, specially when these consoles are launching at the same time. But from the looks of it, MS is clearly not aiming at people like me.
 
Just out of curiosity, how many of you actually use BC? Am I the only one who wouldn't care if PS4 doesn't play PS3 games? I'll just move my PS3 to my bedroom, and the PS4 will take it's place in my mancave.

This next generation transition is different from any other past generation transition. Users built huge digital libraries through the PS3 life cycle. Those PSN digital games are not resalable and if they are only playable on PS3 then they are doomed to almost immediate obsolescence as soon as the user buys a PS4. And Sony if choses not to include BC to those titles it ignores the advantage of having an instantaneous library, at no extra cost to the user or Sony (barring bandwidth/servers costs) available in the start of a hardware generation that can prove very challenging in terms of software offerings.
 
Anyway, I think it's kind of funny that we actually in some senses know slightly less about Orbis's setup now than we did before this latest vgleaks.

The question over the '14+4' and whether that simply means 4 are tweaked in a different way, or 4 live in a distinct world away from the other 14...has some non-negligible repercussions in terms of different tradeoffs and design goals. And we don't have a solid answer yet.
 
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