Maybe. It's not like Sony is known for keeping a tight ship after all. At this point I'm just tired of the speculation games people on the internet are playing with everyone else. Let's just get some details and get these bastards announced already.
VGleaks: Orbis Unveiled! [Updated]
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
Maybe. It's not like Sony is known for keeping a tight ship after all. At this point I'm just tired of the speculation games people on the internet are playing with everyone else. Let's just get some details and get these bastards announced already.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Funny not too long ago the lack of Orbis leaks was a reason to speculate it being released later or being delayed.
I totally understand your point but some people are only allowed to give hints and winks so they/their source won't get into trouble.
Cool, my mistake. I'm not talking so much of those going by what we know so far, just those who are already convinced.
Yeah I agree, I'm pretty much in the same boat.
You do make a good point about the speculation part, it is fun to read. =p
theSlacker
Member
What are the odds that the "special sauce" ends up being something non performance related, but marketing talk for full kinect integration into everything making it "better".
CryTek did a botch job on the console versions of Crysis 3. It looks worse than 2 in every way and runs worse. There are no visual improvements. How is that even possible coming from the same developer on the same engine? They basically ignored that console versions existed and did last minute hack job ports.
And this is coming from one of, if not the, biggest fan of Crysis 2 on GAF.
I agree. But we have to wait for the SP. I do remember the multiplayer beta of Crysis 2 also looking like shit. Except this time motion blur is also gone. IQ wise, it's a bit better than before. (No ghosting)
paradise_circus
Member
is kinect still a big deal?
Felix Lighter
Member
That isn't what has been suggested, so if it were something along those lines the so called "insiders" would be revealed as frauds, or worse, PR mouthpieces.
Oh yeah, no ghosting is nice but the resolution is even lower. It has to be nearing 480p.
I'm still buying the game day 1. I love SP gameplay in the Crysis games too much not to, especially since the series is going F2P after this, but I was hoping for some nice visuals as well. I've just never played a game that was such a step back in the tech department from its predecessor before. Motion blur missing just makes Crysis look...wrong.
grimshawish
Banned
The problem is actually that the 'secret sauce' stuff is getting attatched to anything.
Someone says 'we don't know this about Durango'; people assume its the secret sauce other than some specs being listed.
At least one user is having fun; I think they were surprised how suddenly the entire thread moved off one of their posts. Their not lying, just being purposefully unclear; either for their own fun or because their fanboying (Xbox does come with IE tbf...)
End of the day I've stopped trusting stuff outside of the leak stuff.
Orbis is exciting as it does sound like it'll prove a great boost to last gen. Its actually got new capabilities rather than just higher performance of the current capabilities. Plus it sounds like Sony have done a lot to really try and make HD achievable than being an after thought; its funny that the biggest series on the 'HD twins' wasn't HD.
Was sad to see motion blur go, it was done really well in C2. I wonder if it'll be in the campaign.
I keep reading this but has it been confirmed by anyone?
Angelus Errare
Banned
Where can I see some good comparison shots between the platforms for C3?
yurinka
Member
The PS3 HW will be still selling during the first PS4 years and at profit. PS4 HW instead is likely to be sold at loss. So this extra profit would help to compensate the losses generated by the newer system. PS4 BC would canibalize PS3 sales, something they don't want.
More or less what they did in the past. This extra sales would help them to keep the same amount of sales in home consoles steady during years.
Once the PS3 stops to sell and PS4 starts to be sold at profit then they would activate BC, even if it's through PSN only as they did recently with PS2 games in PS3 or similar (like download them in PS4 or play them through streaming through Gaikai on PS4, Vita, PC, tablets and phones).
It's really obvious. I've played an absolute shitton of Crysis 2 on PS3 and the resolution is clearly lower. The HUD text looks like SD text blown up to HD res. It's huge.
Did you read rest of post ? We know already that there will be no PS3 in PS4. So only emulator can give BC. Emulator is very very very hard to create especially for such unuasual design like PS3. This mean they will probably spend a few years until they will get it right. At best 1 year from finalization of Orbis hardware.
In past they put in PS3: PS2 and PS1... They won't be stupid this time.
Boss Man
Member
I'm really not buying this. I don't expect to see BC (I'm hoping for an adapter), but this doesn't make a lot of sense. They want their platform to be as strong as possible, so if they could add BC for free they absolutely would.
And what do you mean more or less what they did in the past? PS3 launched with BC and it was removed later.
maquiladora
Member
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
For the casual market, perhaps.
However, I'm of the mind that the public will be over it (a la Wii) by the time these consoles release and it won't make a big difference. It could be a mistake for MS to include it or if it takes off with the "normies" then it might be worth it for them. Who knows? We are still hearing stuff about Move with Orbis so both of them might be screwing up in that regard.
At this point both Move/Kinect are toxic cursewords to the core gaming crowd so you will hear them being brought up by fanboys often over the coming months as things are revealed. Since the core gamers are also your early adopters it could be a problem for these companies.
LMAO at damage controlling rumored specs. People are way too sensitive about this stuff. Everything will be known soon enough regardless of what anyone says about sauce, soup, or nuts so none of it matters in the long run. It seems to only annoy those who are cheerleading...
That's disappointing. I have only played a few matches of the 360 version and haven't seen the PS3 version yet.
I wonder if they are using Cell more now than they did with C2. IIRC they said they couldn't afford the memory so using Cell to aid with graphical tasks was kept to a minimum. Maybe they are doing more on Cell now, which would require additional buffers, which would eat more more memory leaving less memory for the framebuffer?
Probably not the case, but if it is a lower resolution, I'd be curious to find out why.
painful fart
Member
Ok I bite.
Just a few lines above you claimed that the difference between XDR and DDR2 would "shrink to next to nothing". Maybe the DDR3 in Durango is actually just as good as the GDDR5 in the Orbis going by your logic, wait it should actually be better (DDR3 > DDR2).
So how much of this random AGP performance test by transfering textures was actually related to the memory bottleneck and not the actual AGP port?
Ok even with that conservative estimate we get about 400 million transistors for the jaguar cores so how do you get down to 2.0 - 2.5 billion for the SOC?
You are all over the map, do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Just a few lines above you claimed that the difference between XDR and DDR2 would "shrink to next to nothing". Maybe the DDR3 in Durango is actually just as good as the GDDR5 in the Orbis going by your logic, wait it should actually be better (DDR3 > DDR2).
Considering every effect was downgraded or cut completely, I highly doubt that.
Yeah, you're right, I was just throwing ideas out there.
Taking a closer look at the screenshots from the link you posted earlier, you're right, the PS3 does seem rather low in resolution. Not only that, but texture filtering looks to have taken a huge hit and now looks worse than the 360 version when it was the other way around with C2.
I'm really curious to find out WTF they did.
It's like they were porting down and gave up somewhere.
nelsonroyale
Member
Can barely believe how poor Crysis 3 looks in those PS3 shots. Was playing Halo 4 a couple of months ago, and there is no excuse for this.
They probably just got annoyed at PC gamers shitting on the initial release of Crysis 2 and decided to say fuck it, throw everything at it to show off the next gen capabilities of the engine, then realized they hadn't even bothered to think of how they would port it to consoles so they trimmed everything last minute. I hope the SP is better or the beta is outdated or something.
Either that or they're preparing for a Crysis Maximum trilogy release next gen and didn't care about the current gen version.
Sorry, it's my fault. Started talking about next gen potential using Crysis 3 as an example and I got mad.
Back on track: Crysis 3 has really shown that proper, native SMAA implementation at higher levels can look fantastic. I hope devs use that a lot next gen. I've been suspecting Sony might come up with their own version of it since it's based on a lot of the same principles as MLAA and that worked out really well on PS3.
I guess I have to take exception to this statement (I don't know why). In my opinion, there hasn't actually been that many "insiders", if any, posting. From lurking in these various thread, I'm aware of Thuway, who doesn't claim to be an insider; Proelite, who I also don't think has made that claim; Karak, same deal; Bruce Lee Roy, same deal; llerhe (sp?) who everyone says is an insider, but hasn't made any definite claims either; and Aegis. While no company is above sneaky PR, it would be a poor effort on Microsoft's part if any of the people above were stealth PR.
I don't think Aegis views himself as an insider, just someone who's had info passed along to him from his sources like the folks above. At best (or worst) he's made some general claims that we don't have the full picture on Durango (same for Orbis); I don't see that vagueness as being equatable to special sauce. If folks have been claiming special sauce, you have to ask: are they genuine so-called insiders, in which case their statements should be paid attention to/they should be brought to task; or are they random posters like the rest of us, speculating/hoping/wishing that there might be some performance aspect that, quite frankly, is most likely not there - in which case, those folks should just be ignored, or schooled respectfully. My only issue with posters who are quick to take arms over special sauce, is that it's too often throwing the legit/interesting discussions off track.
It seems to me the rational, for lack of a better word, posters speculating about Durango have readily accepted the available evidence, and so their continued posting is genuine interest/speculation on the design decisions; it is a legitimate point of speculation as to whether or not MS has elements in their design to mitigate what seems to be a serious performance delta. It's probably not the case, and everyone knows that. But I don't think there's anything wrong with bringing these issues to bear as a point of discussion, and sometimes this thread makes it through a few pages where folks seem to be ok with that.
Maybe we should establish new ground rules: Everyone accepts the fact, upfront, that Orbis is more powerful - without the need for any qualifiers or parity comparisons. For anyone bringing up Durango, it should be implicit that no one is daring to suggest that it will be more powerful than Orbis, or even come close; Orbis wins the power crown.
I find the design rational behind both consoles to be very interesting. I think, quite honestly, that MS simply decided not to go for power; they had to assume that Sony might, but they (MS) just didn't care. So, I admire their apparent willingness to go their own path, without consideration of trying to outdo what the competition may or may not do. The question is why, and how or if we will benefit from that decision.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
wtf, until hardware is finalized and broken down (ie someone has physically taken apart the final hardware), no one can say one way or another if one is stronger. Specs are oftentimes meaningless, they provide us with a roadmap of the design, and what MS/Sony are planning(effeciency vs raw power for example), but look at this generation; the ps3 theoretical output was massive compared to the 360. Hell the ps3 gpu on paper is stronger then 360. (higher fill rater, more gflops, etc)
If anything we should consider them equal and discuss how the system will be utilized, their strengths and weaknesses. Ie like the differences between the ps3 and 360, mainly equal but better in different things.
nelsonroyale
Member
Isn't it better to not compare either until the picture becomes clearer? I mean until more info is out on Durango. Sure, at the moment it seems like Orbis has the edge, but given we are lacking vital details, no conclusions can be made at all. Making arguments based on such poor available evidence seem circuitous to me.
I agree with you to a point; that's why I think there's still value in speculating on Durango. For instance, you've been making some interesting points in this thread that I don't think have gotten the attention that they should.
I'm simply saying, we have a large contingent of folks who are primed to be defensive at even the slightest suggestion that the leaked specs are not what they claim to be. I don't have a problem with Orbis being more powerful, if that's what those folks want - secretly or openly. So, I'll gladly give them that (I personally don't care either way) if we can maintain the scintillating discussion points that you and others often raise.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
well...didn't C2 sell kinda poorly? like, 3 million across ps3/360/pc? for all the hype and marketing the game and cryengine got, that's kinda low, and i doubt 3 will do much on ps3 and 360.
Durango/Orbis speculation is a bit different since they're using essentially the same CPU and their GPUs are built on similar architectures. They're a lot more directly comparable than pretty mich any consoles before. I know we don't have all the info on Durango so I don't think the power gap will be all that large but I have a feeling if it has a ton of extra modules to aid in its power it'll get PS3'd with devs not wanting or having the time to learn its quirks. I honestly think that Orbis' biggest strength isn't in raw power, but in ease of use.
Melchiah
Member
MS seem to have been very lucky back then, as they benefitted from AMD's work with unified shaders, and Sony's & IBM's work with Cell. So, you could say they let the others do the dirty work, which just underlines how they're really more of a software firm. The same goes for the design of the first Xbox, which featured outsourced slightly modified PC parts from Nvidia & Intel. Whereas all the rival platforms had custom designed chips, often designed by the platform holders themselves (AFAIK).
Wasn't xbox the poster child for power, modernity and ease of development as far as console designs go?
Yet, it was underutilised and ports were afforded third best luxuries at best.
I doubt X3 will be harder to develop for; their development tools seem to be second to none. Redmond does design DirectX and Visual Studio after all.
Still, Sony appear to have learnt their lesson and opted for simpler architecture and hopefully, vita suggests, developer complaints will be minimal.
Yet, it was underutilised and ports were afforded third best luxuries at best.
I doubt X3 will be harder to develop for; their development tools seem to be second to none. Redmond does design DirectX and Visual Studio after all.
Still, Sony appear to have learnt their lesson and opted for simpler architecture and hopefully, vita suggests, developer complaints will be minimal.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
wasn't it microsoft that actually did the research, same with the tessellation and the memexport instructions, and then worked with amd to get it accomplished.
eh, MS got stuck with the PPE because IBM failed to deliver the out-of-order processor they were supposed to (although I think it was still supposed to be a derivative)
(source: xbox 360 uncloaked)
Melchiah
Member
So, like I said, they got lucky. If they hadn't received the benefits of the Cell research, what would they have done instead? Go shopping at AMD's or Intel's?
oversitting
Banned
still don't have your post eaten yet? please try again later.
Sony had poor support early on in this generation for developers. Their dev tools at the moment though, are very, very good. I believe that sets a good precedent for Orbis, especially with the design being more accessible.
This is kind of unfair. Microsoft set up a team who went around the world to look everywhere and did their research right. It was an interesting journey and well worth a read in your spare time. <<< How the X360 came to be, from start to finish.
What's interesting is that the upper levels of management asked the 'xbox' team if there was any chance windows could be put in, and they said well no.. gaming first.
I wonder whether Ballmer manages things a little bit differently to Gates..
edit: lol. rereading the headlines again after such a long time, is kind of funny... Balanced design, games at the centre... heck even trinity...
Indeed.
This is kind of unfair. Microsoft set up a team who went around the world to look everywhere and did their research right. It was an interesting journey and well worth a read in your spare time. <<< How the X360 came to be, from start to finish.
What's interesting is that the upper levels of management asked the 'xbox' team if there was any chance windows could be put in, and they said well no.. gaming first.
I wonder whether Ballmer manages things a little bit differently to Gates..
edit: lol. rereading the headlines again after such a long time, is kind of funny... Balanced design, games at the centre... heck even trinity...
Indeed.
Did I just read that the original 360 devkits were apple macs?
Angelus Errare
Banned
bwahaha holy shit...are those 3DS games?
weekend_warrior
Banned
That's like asking piranhas not to nibble until the prey is dead.