VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...

It's interesting that the display panes was not a topic overly discussed here yet vgleaks seems to think it is important enough to include on their list of items we need more information on. I definitely don't think anyone should dismiss it.
 
Drek said:
So which one of those games has the production values, size, and scope of Uncharted 3? Or InFamous 2? Or hell, Gears of War 3?

See the difference? I love the indie/digital distro gaming revolution going on but you're naive as fuck if you don't think the gulf between what they can offer and what traditional AAA retail titles can offer is anything short of massive. A well rounded console library today requires both. Sony has been providing both, MS has been absolutely unwilling to invest in the later.

Also, a bunch of those games aren't exclusive, so says my Steam library, and MS didn't fund them. They bought console exclusivity, i.e. the lazy way to look like you give a shit. It's meaningless in the grand scheme of things because most of those games play just fine on any PC built post-2006 and most people own a PC built post-2006. See the problem there?

I can't play Journey anywhere but on the PS3. I was playing Minecraft on PC WAAAAAYYY before it was on XBLA.

Commitment to content, not commitment to marketable products.
Click to expand...

So how many games with the production values, size, and scope of Uncharted 3 ,InFamous 2 or Gears of War 3 did you play last year on your PS3? just curious.
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Uncharted 3: Game of the Year Edition.

What? It counts!
Click to expand...

I guess it must count since the PS3 last year didn't have any AAA title like UC3 & Infamous 2 but let's forget about the whole 2012 and let's talk about 2013 instead. :P

Also it's funny how last year Journey was undoubtedly the GOTY, it was one of the best experiences EVER, indie titles suddenly mattered and a lot of people asked "who the fuck needs AAA games when you have life changing experiences like these?" but since it's 2013 now and we're back in high production values, AAA games with size, scope and high end graphics and shit XBLA/PSN games have become again small, insignificant "snacks" that can't be compared to "AAA" gaming. It's weird how in a matter of months the priorities and tastes for a lot of folks around here have changed.
 
Feindflug said:
I guess it must count since the PS3 last year didn't have any AAA title like UC3 & Infamous 2 but let's forget about the whole 2012 and let's talk about 2013 instead. :P

Also it's funny how last year Journey was undoubtedly the GOTY, it was one of the best experiences EVER, indie titles suddenly mattered and a lot of people asked "who the fuck needs AAA games when you have life changing experiences like these?" but since it's 2013 now and we're back in high production values, AAA games with size, scope and high end graphics and shit XBLA/PSN games have become again small, insignificant "snacks" that can't be compared to "AAA" gaming. It's weird how in a matter of months the priorities and tastes for a lot of folks around here have changed.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to define logic in console warriors?
 
Feindflug said:
I guess it must count since the PS3 last year didn't have any AAA title like UC3 & Infamous 2 but let's forget about the whole 2012 and let's talk about 2013 instead. :P

Also it's funny how last year Journey was undoubtedly the GOTY, it was one of the best experiences EVER, indie titles suddenly mattered and a lot of people asked "who the fuck needs AAA games when you have life changing experiences like these?" but since it's 2013 now and we're back in high production values, AAA games with size, scope and high end graphics and shit XBLA/PSN games have become again small, insignificant "snacks" that can't be compared to "AAA" gaming. It's weird how in a matter of months the priorities and tastes for a lot of folks around here have changed.
Click to expand...

To be fair, we're talking about spending $400-$500 just to play these games. I almost bought an iPad just to play Superbrothers, but I'm really glad I didn't.
 
If I'm no mistaken, FP16 is referring to the form of HDR lightning.

Feindflug said:
I guess it must count since the PS3 last year didn't have any AAA title like UC3 & Infamous 2 but let's forget about the whole 2012 and let's talk about 2013 instead. :P

Also it's funny how last year Journey was undoubtedly the GOTY, it was one of the best experiences EVER, indie titles suddenly mattered and a lot of people asked "who the fuck needs AAA games when you have life changing experiences like these?" but since it's 2013 now and we're back in high production values, AAA games with size, scope and high end graphics and shit XBLA/PSN games have become again small, insignificant "snacks" that can't be compared to "AAA" gaming. It's weird how in a matter of months the priorities and tastes for a lot of folks around here have changed.
Click to expand...

ether
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Easily worth it just to play HD ports of Treasure's games, but hey, to each their own.
Click to expand...

Sure, and I'd buy a WiiU if they put the Mother trilogy on it :P The point is downloadable/indie titles aren't going to drive adoption at launch even if there's a good library, since that's not what makes early adopters want to splurge. But just one or two Halo/COD types will.
 
mavs said:
Sure, and I'd buy a WiiU if they put the Mother trilogy on it :P The point is downloadable/indie titles aren't going to drive adoption at launch even if there's a good library, since that's not what makes early adopters want to splurge. But just one or two Halo/COD types will.
Click to expand...

Right. Let's throw people a tasty bone, say, Minecraft 2 exclusive to Durango or Orbis at launch, and see how that develops.
 
Feindflug said:
I guess it must count since the PS3 last year didn't have any AAA title like UC3 & Infamous 2 but let's forget about the whole 2012 and let's talk about 2013 instead. :P

Also it's funny how last year Journey was undoubtedly the GOTY, it was one of the best experiences EVER, indie titles suddenly mattered and a lot of people asked "who the fuck needs AAA games when you have life changing experiences like these?" but since it's 2013 now and we're back in high production values, AAA games with size, scope and high end graphics and shit XBLA/PSN games have become again small, insignificant "snacks" that can't be compared to "AAA" gaming. It's weird how in a matter of months the priorities and tastes for a lot of folks around here have changed.
Click to expand...

Have you actually seen any posters say both those things.
 
Tripp Daily said:
Any chance you can give a " fp16 for dummies" description and what it does for game development?
Click to expand...

SUPER DUMMED DOWN Dummies Example that is very very basic:

FP 16 offers 16 bits of information about the color/brightness of a pixel
FP 24 Offers 24 bits of information about the color/brightness of a pixel
FP 32 offers 32 bits of information about the color/brightness pixel

Each one offers more and more data concerning the separation of color/brightness between two side by side pixals. They feed into bandwidth.

Do they make a difference?
Sure the jump from FP 16 to 24 is pretty large elsewise not much of one.

Bungie, I think, designed their their own and it became popular.
PS3 sounds like it had its own. It can get really confusing reading some of the crap but...
Prepare to be all mathed out.
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18997

Picture representations with AMD was caught using it to increase framerates. Though it should be mentioned that there is a super duper duper small difference in the look and yet it actually really does make things run faster.

http://www.geeks3d.com/20100916/fp1...-by-ati-to-boost-benchmark-score-says-nvidia/

EDIT: If anyone else can explain it better please do. I just through this somewhat broken example up and its probably wrong in a actual working way.
 
scently said:
So its in the gpu block then? I ask because if it is in the gpu block then it sounds like an enhanced ROPS unit or can you tell if it is different from the ROP unit?
Click to expand...

Sorry. I can't help you here. I just heard numbers and terms without any explanation. I'm having a hard time sorting these stuff but also can't release everything to the public. :(
 
Different layers of a game using different res is nothing new. Many games user 1/2 res or 1/4 res transparency layers for example.

I suppose if you have extra hardware scalers or "display panes" or whatever that saves you the step of upscaling and compositing them yourself, which would give you some performance boost and maybe some IQ gain if the scaler is better than what you could afford to do yourself. That said compositing different layers is not particularly taxing and if you are say compositing an alpha layer into your scene you probably want to do some blurring after upscaling it, which means either the display pane / scaler would need to be configurable to some degree or it wouldn't work for some scenarios.

Really it sounds more useful as a way to do OS overlays than anything else, where you write to some overlay layer without worrying about what the app underneath it is doing.

Edit:

fpX is a floating point buffer format where the X is the number of bits per pixel. On 360 fp10 was pretty common, which was 10 bits each for rgb and 2 for alpha. (Destination alpha doesn't matter a whole lot) I believe on 360 fp10 did alpha blending at half speed, but I might be wrong there. Generally as you move up there issues with reduced fill rate.

fp16 would be 16 bits per pixel and presumably 16 bits for alpha as well.
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Right. Let's throw people a tasty bone, say, Minecraft 2 exclusive to Durango or Orbis at launch, and see how that develops.
Click to expand...

Probably not too well for anybody involved if there aren't AAA games to back it up. But I'm sure it'd go better than Journey 2 or Mark of the Ninja 2.
 
mavs said:
To be fair, we're talking about spending $400-$500 just to play these games. I almost bought an iPad just to play Superbrothers, but I'm really glad I didn't.
Click to expand...

$500 for what? both the PS3 and 360? if you don't own both systems this amount of money is well spent IMO, lots and lots of great games on both consoles indie or retail.

Zeal said:
Listen to this track while knowing that the next-gen systems are about to be unveiled. You will feel the storm coming in your veins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiN6t7K7txw
Click to expand...

*imagines in epic slow mo Mattrick and Kaz unveiling Kinectimals 2 and Wonderbook 4D* :O
 
ekim said:
Sorry. I can't help you here. I just heard numbers and terms without any explanation. I'm having a hard time sorting these stuff but also can't release everything to the public. :(
Click to expand...

Heh, I understand. Thanks anyway. I have updated my quote, is it ok?
 
Margalis said:
Different layers of a game using different res is nothing new. Many games user 1/2 res or 1/4 res transparency layers for example.

I suppose if you have extra hardware scalers or "display panes" or whatever that saves you the step of upscaling and compositing them yourself, which would give you some performance boost and maybe some IQ gain if the scaler is better than what you could afford to do yourself. That said compositing different layers is not particularly taxing and if you are say compositing an alpha layer into your scene you probably want to do some blurring after upscaling it, which means either the display pane / scaler would need to be configurable to some degree or it wouldn't work for some scenarios.

Really it sounds more useful as a way to do OS overlays than anything else, where you write to some overlay layer without worrying about what the app underneath it is doing.
Click to expand...

HDMI in.
 
Feindflug said:
$500 for what? both the PS3 and 360? if you don't own both systems this amount of money is well spent IMO, lots and lots of great games on both consoles indie or retail.
Click to expand...

New consoles. The reason why everyone thinks big budget fancy graphics games are the most important thing in the world now.
 
mavs said:
Probably not too well for anybody involved if there aren't AAA games to back it up. But I'm sure it'd go better than Journey 2 or Mark of the Ninja 2.
Click to expand...

I don't know, maybe. But if the argument is "downloadable games don't count because they wouldn't sell a system", then 95% of retail games don't count either.
 
mavs said:
Absolutely true. That's why "PS3 had no games" at one point in this generation.
Click to expand...

Sure, and if we're going to follow that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, PS3 still has no games, with the notable exceptions of God of War, Uncharted and Gran Turismo. Likewise for Xbox 360, with the exceptions being Halo, Gears of War and, well, apparently Minecraft.

I believe it's clear now why disregarding downloadable games simply because they're not AAA releases - and that's slowly changing as well - makes little sense.
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Sure, and if we're going to follow that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, PS3 still has no games, with the notable exceptions of God of War, Uncharted and Gran Turismo. Likewise for Xbox 360, with the exceptions being Halo, Gears of War and, well, apparently Minecraft.

I believe it's clear now why disregarding downloadable games simply because they're not AAA releases - and that's slowly changing as well - makes little sense.
Click to expand...
I see you post about this subject a lot, and I tend to agree with you. But you might consider that your interest in XBLA/PSN games may be a lot higher than what is average. I totally disagree with the notion that downloadable games don't count as games, but you do have to recognize that they are not at all equivalent to AAA retail releases.
 
Fancy Corndog said:
I see you post about this subject a lot, and I tend to agree with you. But you might consider that your interest in XBLA/PSN games may be a lot higher than what is average. I totally disagree with the notion that downloadable games don't count as games, but you do have to recognize that they are not at all equivalent to AAA retail releases.
Click to expand...

If we are using AAA as it normally is used there are more likely more AAA XBLA/PSN games than retail games. Full production, full staff working on them, full output of a studio concentrating on that one game. But I am assuming someone has attached an arbitrary cost that a AAA must have spent on it or a minimum number of staff? Or attached a particular aspect of the game that must be done at a particular level. For instance if it is texture quality than Skyrim can't be AAA but many XBLA/PSN games can. Sound, the same. Size, the same.

Then again I just find AAA to be nothing more than a weak attempt to say really fucking expensive and advertised until small nations are bankrupt. They certainly can't mean GFX as some games recently pushed by their studios as AAA are fucking atrocious. Just seems a waste of a term now I guess.

AAAA well...that is just MS being stupid:)

But I guess thats because I could see Journey selling a boatload of consoles if it was marketed right(money).
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Sure, and if we're going to follow that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, PS3 still has no games, with the notable exceptions of God of War, Uncharted and Gran Turismo. Likewise for Xbox 360, with the exceptions being Halo, Gears of War and, well, apparently Minecraft.

I believe it's clear now why disregarding downloadable games simply because they're not AAA releases - and that's slowly changing as well - makes little sense.
Click to expand...

Eh, I wouldn't argue that multiplatform games don't count and I wouldn't argue that downloadable games should be disregarded, just discounted. But I don't think indie or graphically modest games will affect the success of new consoles nearly as much as competing coverage of big-budget graphically impressive titles (even multiplatform ones.) At least not until the consoles are no longer "new".
 
Fancy Corndog said:
I see you post about this subject a lot, and I tend to agree with you. But you might consider that your interest in XBLA/PSN games may be a lot higher than what is average. I totally disagree with the notion that downloadable games don't count as games, but you do have to recognize that they are not at all equivalent to AAA retail releases.
Click to expand...

In many ways they're not, and from the business perspective it's quite obvious (however, as I said, that's slowly changing as we now have both downloadable games with AAA quality and popularity, and downloadable games with AAA production values, Minecraft being an example of the former and Alan Wake's American Nightmare or PlanetSide 2 being examples of the latter). But the argument is usually used in list wars, not in market analysis discussions, and I'd like to think that we, as dedicated gamers, value good games over shiny graphics or bloated marketing campaigns. Indeed, gaming press and notable industry figures seem to acknowledge that, as this year's triumph of several downloadable titles shows, but you'll never get some people here to admit it - and I think it's also perfectly clear why.
 
Karak said:
If we are using AAA as it normally is used there are more likely more AAA XBLA/PSN games than retail games. Full production, full staff working on them, full output of a studio concentrating on that one game. But I am assuming someone has attached an arbitrary cost that a AAA must have spent on it or a minimum number of staff? Or attached a particular aspect of the game that must be done at a particular level. For instance if it is texture quality than Skyrim can't be AAA but many XBLA/PSN games can. Sound, the same. Size, the same.

Then again I just find AAA to be nothing more than a weak attempt to say really fucking expensive and advertised until small nations are bankrupt. They certainly can't mean GFX as some games recently pushed by their studios as AAA are fucking atrocious. Just seems a waste of a term now I guess.

AAAA well...that is just MS being stupid:)
Click to expand...
It's an ambiguous term for sure. Honestly, I think the best I can do is call it something that a lot of people are involved with both in production and consumption.

Is it fair to assume that we all know what we're talking about when we say AAA game, though? I mean, it is sort of vague but I think everyone understands it to mean something. XBLA/PSN stuff is wonderful and one of the best things about this gen, but there's a certain value attached to the distinction between what these are and what AAA retail games are.

Maybe it's that I feel like I could be playing these games on a phone or tablet device? Whereas those AAA retail games are giving me my money's worth for a console. Deep down it might have something to do with that.

REMEMBER CITADEL said:
In many ways they're not, and from the business perspective it's quite obvious (however, as I said, that's slowly changing as we now have both downloadable games with AAA quality and popularity, and downloadable games with AAA production values, Minecraft being an example of the former and Alan Wake's American Nightmare or PlanetSide 2 being examples of the latter). But the argument is usually used in list wars, not in market analysis discussions, and I'd like to think that we, as dedicated gamers, value good games over shiny graphics or bloated marketing campaigns. Indeed, gaming press and notable industry figures seem to acknowledge that, as this year's triumph of several downloadable titles shows, but you'll never get some people here to admit it - and I think it's also perfectly clear why.
Click to expand...
I just realized what this argument was about and I'm not sure I want to jump into all of that, but I can see where both sides are coming from. I agree with you that the future is going to involve a lot more quality downloadable games (or at least, I hope so).
 
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