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[zomgbbqftw]

Not as good as Orbis (on paper) but should be cheaper to produce.

Personally I want a good balance of performance and price.

The cost differential is not going to be that large, the 32MB ESRAM will be massive and eat up any savings they have made on the GPU. The only significant cost difference is the RAM 8GB DDR3 will be around 30% cheaper than 4GB GDDR5 on bulk pricing, but GDDR5 will get cheaper a bit faster since there is no 4Gbit chip out and once that density hits mass production it will have cost parity. 4Gbit chips will come with the next generation of GPUs.

 

[Lifejumper]

How many times was the PS3 stronger than the Xbox 360?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Why doesn't either this artilce or the previous Durango article mention AMD or GCN when talking or showing something about it? Or I missed it.

They don't seem to have the same problem with Orbis.

 

[iMax]

Why are folks complaining? Am I wrong or aren't those specs still a big step up from the Xbox 360? If you expected it to blow PC gaming out the water, or believed the "Avatar Graphics" nonsense, then it was your own fault. And seeing what it accomplished late in it's life it seems like it was a good idea to release a system that won't break the bank but still output good stuff. As it's always been, you want to push the envelope graphics wise, build a PC and download some of those high end mods for games.

They are, yeah. This is a massive step up from Xbox 360. Orbis aside, this is a true next-generation system. Cross-platform games will look basically the same on both systems, whilst first-party games will probably look better on Orbis.

Remember, these statistics are pure conjecture. They are unconfirmed and, at best, theoretical.

 

[Mpl90]

Given this rumoured specifics, how much could Durango be priced, just looking at the hardware without Kinect / the projector thing?

 

[tipoo]

Sony's first party output should destroy whatever MS studios will come up with at this point.

But I can't understand why MS would let Sony have such an edge.

Cost, of course. Maybe they found they could make things look 90% (yes that's ass-pulled) as good for a much larger reduction in cost. Sony is known for going balls-out on specs.

 

[Torrod]

That could also mean that every orbis game is going to be 3DTV-Enabled. Wich leads to the point that both GPUs may be up en pair.

 

[derFeef]

Hmm, dunno if special or not.

Both the DB and the CB have substantial caches on die, and all depth and color operations are performed locally in the caches. Access to these caches is faster than access to ESRAM. For this reason, the peak GPU pixel rate can be larger than what raw memory throughput would indicate. The caches are not large enough, however, to fit entire render targets. Therefore, rendering that is localized to a particular area of the screen is more efficient than scattered rendering.

 

[Haunted]

This is a bunch of gibberish to me.

Someone give me a food analogy here with Orbis and nvidia's PC GPUs.

 

[1-D_FTW]

They're banking on the ps2/wii formula I guess. Seems like they really did lose their edge this gen. Assuming these numbers are true at least.

If the rumors of being a DVR (with whatever the latest cable card spec is), that could be pretty huge. It would probably still allow them to easily win in the US.

Of course, this could become obsolete if 6-tuner whole house DVRs become standard soon.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Why are folks complaining? Am I wrong or aren't those specs still a big step up from the Xbox 360? If you expected it to blow PC gaming out the water, or believed the "Avatar Graphics" nonsense, then it was your own fault. And seeing what it accomplished late in it's life it seems like it was a good idea to release a system that won't break the bank but still output good stuff. As it's always been, you want to push the envelope graphics wise, build a PC and download some of those high end mods for games.

Because it's kind of feeling like they went the wii U route, gimp on the specs because the cost is being increased elsewhere (the wii U pad or kinect). All i care about is games so i just want the most powerful console possible.

 

[King_Moc]

Why are folks complaining? Am I wrong or aren't those specs still a big step up from the Xbox 360? If you expected it to blow PC gaming out the water, or believed the "Avatar Graphics" nonsense, then it was your own fault. And seeing what it accomplished late in it's life it seems like it was a good idea to release a system that won't break the bank but still output good stuff. As it's always been, you want to push the envelope graphics wise, build a PC and download some of those high end mods for games.

At a guess, it's probably because some people are heavily invested into xbox live and their friends list and this appears to be a pretty big step down from what Sony is doing.

 

[universalmind]

CODENAMED DURANGO
OH
OH
OH
NEOGAF
NEW TERMS
LETS ALL USE IT
"DURANGO!"

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Sometimes these comparisons (and those news about the touchpad controller) make me worry that the Orbis will be quite high priced.

Either that, or the Durango will be quite low priced...


I see myself going the Orbis route anyway. Almost feeling hyped at the moment.
Everything sounds so good about the PS4 at the moment.

 

[Pagusas]

That could also mean that every orbis game is going to be 3DTV-Enabled. Wich leads to the point that both GPUs may be up en pair.

Where did you get that from?

 

[Kimawolf]

I think people have been expecting "secret sauce." There may still be some in the bottle, I guess, but I don't think this points to it.

Ah yeah that is probably it, the secret techniques no one else knew but MS. Gotcha. Well hope they wake up now and face reality like everyone else then I guess. All in all, unless Kinect is bundled in the box, they'll have the price advantage over Sony, and they already have the mindshare advantage of the general public.

I bet they went this route to be able to include Kinect 2.0 in the box at an affordable price. Kinda like Wii U going its route to include its tablet controller.

 

[Damodar]

CODENAMED DURANGO
OH
OH
OH
NEOGAF
NEW TERMS
LETS ALL USE IT
"DURANGO!"

 

[Durante]

This is a bunch of gibberish to me.

Someone give me a food analogy here with Orbis and nvidia's PC GPUs.

Durango is a cheeseburger. Orbis is a double cheeseburger. Titan is a 5 course meal.

 

[iMax]

IIRC, doesn't the PS3 have double the FLOPS of Xbox 360?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

CODENAMED DURANGO
OH
OH
OH
NEOGAF
NEW TERMS
LETS ALL USE IT
"DURANGO!"

hahaha.

 

[KageMaru]

Yeah, looks like I'll get the next xbox eventually but likely not at launch. These specs have been looking disappointing for a while now and I don't see any new reveal changing that.

The jump in a nice jump compared to the PS360, but it could have been so much better if it wasn't for their push for profits. A part of me hopes this console flops, or at least sells below the PS4, so that Ballmer can see the result of his greed.

There's a good chance this will be the last major hardware push by these companies, meaning this should have made the proper investments for one last good hardware push. So far it looks like they blew that chance IMO.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

How many times was the PS3 stronger than the Xbox 360?

Different architecture, and PS3 was difficult to develop for.

Agreed. I have a feeling that if there is a $100 price difference between these at launch Sony will be in real trouble.

$100 for roughly ~50% more power? I think Microsoft are the ones who would be in real trouble.

 

[Risk Breaker]

So PS4's fillrate will be around 25 GPixels/s while Durango's is 12.8 GPixels/s (the same as my average laptop, lol...)?

 

[JaggedSac]

What they should have indicated, for people who are uninformed about such things(such as myself), is what is different from other GPUs. As in what does this thing do differently, if at all, than others.

But I am disappointed that the move engines did not win the vote. This seems to pretty much be what we already knew.

 

[GopherD]

I think people have been expecting "secret sauce." There may still be some in the bottle, I guess, but I don't think this points to it.

There isn't, never was and the notion should be put to bed.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Durango is a cheeseburger. Orbis is a double cheeseburger. Titan is a 5 course meal.

With five times the amount of calories. What is the power consumption on that thing?

 

[jaosobno]

Bu..bu...bu..80% of developers prefer Durango, RIGHT GUYS!? Right...?

I'm renaming it. From now on it's LOLango.

 

[Daedardus]

Durango is a cheeseburger. Orbis is a double cheeseburger. Titan is a 5 course meal.

That's a very expensive cheeseburger you're buying there.

 

[Boss Man]

Surely there's something we're missing? I can understand that Sony would have a more powerful machine since they're apparently going to be more focused on game performance than OS capabilities compared to Microsoft, but this much of a gap?

I just have a hard time imagining Orbis being ~2 times as powerful. Going to be interesting to see how things play out if this is the way it is.

 

[chaosblade]

How many times was the PS3 stronger than the Xbox 360?

They were basically neck and neck, each had it's pros and cons.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Antialiasing

The Durango GPU supports 2x, 4x, and 8x MSAA levels. It also implements a modified type of MSAA known as compressed AA. Compressed AA decouples two notions of sample:

Coverage sample–One of several screenspace positions generated by rasterization of one pixel
Surface sample– One of several entries representing a single pixel in a color or depth/stencil surface


Traditionally, coverage samples and surface samples match up one to one. In standard 4xMSAA, for example, a triangle may cover from zero to four samples of any given pixel, and a depth and a color are recorded for each covered sample.

Under compressed AA, there can be more coverage samples than surface samples. In other words, a triangle may still cover several screenspace locations per pixel, but the GPU does not allocate enough render target space to store a unique depth and color for each location. Hardware logic determines how to combine data from multiple coverage samples. In areas of the screen with extensive subpixel detail, this data reduction process is lossy, but the errors are generally unobjectionable. Compressed AA combines most of the quality benefits of high MSAA levels with the relaxed space requirements of lower MSAA levels.

Compressed MSAA, I guess this solves the problem of how they were going to make 4xMSAA work into the ESRAM

I assume this is the special sauce. Or at least part of it.

 

[iMax]

Different architecture, and PS3 was difficult to develop for.



$100 for roughly ~50% more power? I think Microsoft are the ones who would be in real trouble.

The vast majority of consumers don't care about power. They care about games.

 

[speedpop]

Durango is a cheeseburger. Orbis is a double cheeseburger. Titan is a 5 course meal.

Ouch. I was just saying to my partner that people are freaking out about the lack of high-end numbers. These machines won't even push past her PC and it's turning in to a dinosaur.

 

[gaming_noob]

Different architecture, and PS3 was difficult to develop for.



$100 for roughly ~50% more power? I think Microsoft are the ones who would be in real trouble.

Exactly. And whose to say that Sony won't take a hit and match the $299 price if Durango is announced at $299? Go for the kill.

 

[shinra-bansho]

There isn't, never was and the notion should be put to bed.

Special sauce in bed. Kinky.

 

[Reiko]

So weak.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Bu..bu...bu..80% of developers prefer Durango, RIGHT GUYS!? Right...?

I'm renaming it. From now on it's LOLango.

Microsoft is using the extra money saved to moneyhat most third partys so once again, the games will on the whole look/run better on their system.

 

[Plinko]

$100 for roughly ~50% more power? I think Microsoft are the ones who would be in real trouble.

Except "power" hasn't made a difference in sales and consumer appeal since the SNES days.

Exactly. And whose to say that Sony won't take a hit and match the $299 price if Durango is announced at $299? Go for the kill.

Really? The company who just said "We have customers who will pay more for our products?" It would be great for the consumer but I don't see it happening. Could Sony even handle the losses right now?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Ah yeah that is probably it, the secret techniques no one else knew but MS. Gotcha. Well hope they wake up now and face reality like everyone else then I guess. All in all, unless Kinect is bundled in the box, they'll have the price advantage over Sony, and they already have the mindshare advantage of the general public.

I bet they went this route to be able to include Kinect 2.0 in the box at an affordable price. Kinda like Wii U going its route to include its tablet controller.

If they are including Kinect 2.0 in every box there will be no price advantage. Atm I see Durango at $349-449 and Orbis at $349-449 depending on the loss or profit MS and Sony are looking at per unit.

If at E3 it looks like Orbis is steamrolling Durango MS could push $349 and take the losses up front where Sony probably couldn't give the terrible state of their balance sheet.

 

[yon61]

In DBZ terms, this is how I'm seeing it:

Durango - Full power SSJ Goku
Orbis - Perfect Cell

 

[Jaagen]

Durango is a cheeseburger. Orbis is a double cheeseburger. Titan is a 5 course meal.

What is Titan?

 

[Haunted]

Durango is a cheeseburger. Orbis is a double cheeseburger. Titan is a 5 course meal.

solid.

I assume WiiU is like a kid's meal in comparison.

What is Titan?

nvidias new flagship card.

 

[DieH@rd]

Durango:
8 core Jaguar ~ 108GFlops
12 general purpose GPU Compute Units ~ 1.2 TFlops
Split memory pool [really big 68 GB/s section + small 102 GB/s section]

Orbis:
8 core Jaguar ~ 108GFlops
14 general purpose GPU Compute Unites ~ 1.4 TFlopps
4 customized GPU Compute Units ~400 GFlops
unified memory pool [big 176 GB/s section]



PS4 has more jizz... but fans of Xbox will not surrender easily. They are hoping that their secret jizz will prevail [it wont]. In the end it wont matter much, multiplatform games will look great on both of them, and 1st party games from Sony will continue to be awesome. We shall see what new IP will appear on both of them, and those will most likely decide the winrar.

 

[Plywood]

Looks like they shat the bed.

I see one console in my future.

 

[Crawl]

Guys what are you worried about? I am sure it will run fable the journey 2 just fine.

 

[Durante]

IIRC, doesn't the PS3 have double the FLOPS of Xbox 360?

For the CPU, yes. But the architectures were very dissimilar. It's a different case this time around, with almost the same GPU and CPU architectures, and the only major difference in the memory layout.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Except "power" hasn't made a difference in sales and consumer appeal since the SNES days.

Nonsense. Power has always been a driver for new system adoption. But both Durango and Orbis will provide a significant technical leap.

 

[Takamura-San]

The lack of analogies on this thread make me sad

 

[Router]

Seems powerful enough... Probably not 5 years from now though.

CODENAMED DURANGO
OH
OH
OH
NEOGAF
NEW TERMS
LETS ALL USE IT
"DURANGO!"

The fuck?

 

[Nugg]

In DBZ terms, this is how I'm seeing it:

Durango - Full power SSJ Goku
Orbis - Perfect Cell

Soooo Orbis theorically more powerful, but we all know it's going to lose anyway in the end?