But the rumours say the PS4 will be more powerful and easier to develop for.
VGLeaks: Durango GPU detailed
- Thread starter phosphor112
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But the rumours say the PS4 will be more powerful and easier to develop for.
If Sony provides better tools, there's a good chance most games will lead on the PS4.
This isn't true at all.
is this the reason for 8GB of memory?
Interesting find. If Microsoft is really pushing compressed AA, that even takes away some of the theoretical advantages of having more RAM since it would mean Durango multiplats will more memory-hungry than their Orbis counterparts.
From my time on GAF, only Sony can make changes to their hardware. Old specs, or new specs, it's a lock for Microsoft.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Until we have them in hand no cost comparison can be done. I am postulating based on specs and availability of hardware that Sony will have a cost advantage, assuming they use 8x 4Gb GDDR5 chips rather than 16x 2Gb ones. MS will be using 16x 4Gbit DDR3 chips initially which will increase motherboard complexity and cooling requirements.
At the very least, it means MS will not have a cost advantage as is currently assumed given the lesser power. Having 4Gb chips from the off halves the cost of the most expensive component in Orbis and MS are giving away their GPU savings for ESRAM on the APU.
Cape Verde is 123mm^2, with the extra CUs that pushes it to ~ 150mm^2, the ESRAM adds a further 40mm^2 and adds complexity which will depress yields.
Pitcarin is 212mm^2 but Sony haven't got all 20CUs, whether that is down to yields or they have removed them altogether is not known. The difference is not significant (and if Sony have removed the extra 2 CUs then it's non existent), and given the lesser complexity of Sony's APU, it will have higher yields.
So there you have it. Numbers.
Can Crusher
Banned
This is where it gets wrong.
If Sony can get Orbis selling better than Durango, you are looking at a faster adoption rate in a system with free online which means more people with money to spend online on micro transations and DLC that devs love.
Now besides that, sales shifting Sony's way means that there's actually a chance that Orbis will become the lead platform, which would mean Durango getting "downports". That would mean that in fact multiplatform games would look and run better on Orbis.
Lead platform for next gen is yet to be determined, and that will be very important.
If MS go with the media/services first approach, your purchasing decision basically comes down to
- Do you want a machine that plays great games, and also has all those services like Netflix and bluray?
or
- do you want a great media centre with integrated services, that also plays great games?
Seems like it'll be more a semantic difference than anything meaningful.
- Do you want a machine that plays great games, and also has all those services like Netflix and bluray?
or
- do you want a great media centre with integrated services, that also plays great games?
Seems like it'll be more a semantic difference than anything meaningful.
Well it's obvious these multipliers and comparisons are trivial and ambiguous at best, but it's still good fun to try and understand it especially if you don't have any tech background.
metalslimer
Member
Interesting, thanks.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Can we nail this Orbis having a GPU equal to a 7770 on the head right now ffs.
On paper its about equal to a 7850, in reality with much fewer overheads to worry about, it will easily match a 7870, and could enter 7950 territory with skilled dev houses.
A bit more FPS?
Some are suggesting based on numbers provided that near double clip may be achievable, although its still to early to tell.
The differences aren't that big, and framebuffers are a relative drop in the ocean. It's not going to be a problem, and it's not why they chose 8GB either
I'm not saying the specs have changed. I don't think that they have. I'm just trying to qualify my statement as specifically as possible. See: ass-covering.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Nowhere near. Durango is significantly more powerful than Wii U.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I don't get this post. Are you implying that a console significantly more powerful than the 360 is going to produce bad graphics? It's kind of funny to see consoles propped up and written off before we have seen any games whatsoever actually running on them.
Can Crusher
Banned
Because of plenty of factors. Adoption rate, game sales ratio, dev tools etc
You take away that? A lot changes.
Maybe MS didn't include new GDDR5 512MB chips into calculation ? Split ram pool and inclusion of SRAM is more complicated on die (and still that leaves DME) something like that should be designed rather early. Redesign of their choice (DDR3+SRAM) 11 months before console premiere is hardly possible because that would change a lot in SOC design.
Sony on other hand was rumored to use 2GB GDDR5. When new tech arrived they just switched their 256MB GDDR5 chips to 512ones without any change in design (in general).
As of price do you have some data on price of 32MB SRAM ? I may be wrong but 4GB of newest 512MB GDDR5 chips should be more expensive overall. Naturally i just consider only chip prices and do not include design cost.
shinra-bansho
Member
So am I to understand that GAF insiders have been operating on year old information all this time as well? Is this only for Durango or for both Durango and Orbis?
Graphics Horse
Member
Render targets are a tiny portion of the RAM on these systems, even at 1080p. We're talking about systems with 16x the gpu RAM of previous gen while render targets should be the same as last gen to 2 or 3 times as big.
Because it's literally no effort at all to make the game look even better by having more AA/AF/Dynamic lights. Like none. It's harder making compromises. Even if they just raw port it over, no dev is just going to not make what amounts to an edit in an ini file.
Yeah. I'm sure Crytek would love working with a gimped console again running CryEngine 3.
as we can see by Wii most recently, graphics dont directly equate to sales. So it really means little... total package (price, extra features, power) is what will matter when it comes general public.
You think ps4 games will al be 1080? Quell your bloated expectations young junior.
Because the specs didn't change. Simply as that.
Alpha kits -> Beta kits -> Final kits
Beta kits are more or less final kits (final silicon).
if they are trying to disrupt (eg to try and grab the living room before Apple comes in and does it), then arguably the core gamer demographic may overlap the 'integrated tech living room home automation early adopter' demographic too. So there might be a market for a games console that also turns your heating down to stop your palms sweating.
I think its a stretch, especially against a sea of $99 streaming boxes all offering free access to almost all existing services. But I'll certainly be interested to see them try.
I'd also like to see global reactions if MS push something that is very US focused with cable company partnerships etc. If they are reserving memory for things that 2/3 of the world won't benefit from, thats not good.
CPUs seem to be identical.
Orbis has a somewhat faster GPU without the 4 "helper" CUs, which could be used for plenty of neat tricks or a little more rendering power.
Barring Sony making an expensive and audacious upgrade, Durango has more RAM but worse memory bandwidth.
Gotcha.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Same here. I can hear my wallet crying already.
NDA over
Felix Lighter
Member
The thing is going from 30 fps to say 40 fps, is pointless, because it would actually look stuttery and less smooth than a locked 30 fps on 60Hz displays but if they are able to achieve 60 fps, it will look and feel much better. So if they can't double the framerate (assuming Durango will be targeting 30 fps) the extra power would be better utilized for IQ or something other than framerate.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
So will Master Race still be Master Race or do they need to upgrade to get the same results?
is this the reason for 8GB of memory?
Why would that be? This is standard stuff.
Anyways, Devs have been publically asking for more ram.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Can't help but feel the fact that some comments are already calling this an "underpowered" machine just highlights how the power wars are subjective and increasingly pointless.
There is no objective standard for "powerful". Everything is relative. Console gaming seems trapped in the ancient history of the bit wars, when when every generation was literally, on paper "twice the bits" until we got to the point that progress wasn't measured that way anymore.
If Durango is weaker than Orbis, but less expensive, then it's not underpowered. It's engineered for a different value proposition. Just as people keep calling Wii U "underpowered" because of an arbitrary perception some have of what they think a $300 console "should" have in it - even though the PS3, a now last gen console, still retails for $300.
There is no objective standard for "powerful". Everything is relative. Console gaming seems trapped in the ancient history of the bit wars, when when every generation was literally, on paper "twice the bits" until we got to the point that progress wasn't measured that way anymore.
If Durango is weaker than Orbis, but less expensive, then it's not underpowered. It's engineered for a different value proposition. Just as people keep calling Wii U "underpowered" because of an arbitrary perception some have of what they think a $300 console "should" have in it - even though the PS3, a now last gen console, still retails for $300.
Sounds about right.
Like I said before, as long as PS4 provides multitasking, a better OS than PS3, Netflix and all other catchup video streaming services. I really wouldn't care what else MS will add. I also expect Sony to offer many social features with video sharing and Livearea. Also add the fact you don't have to pay for Gold to use services like Netflix. I don't see what else MS can add to that and if they can is it a big deal and will it matter.
Lol how do you feel about the difference in specs between the two (orbis and Durango)?
lol
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I guess it will be called Xbox 720 then
I don't think you understand. One console has bigger numbers. That means that the other console is underpowered.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Now this is interesting. I specifically asked the question weeks ago if there was any final silicon in Durango dev kits and the answer was no.
lherre, giving us seeing recent GPU specs for Durango...
Are you still sticking to your previous comment on both consoles being comparable in power? Just curious.
Risk Breaker
Member
Yeah, I know, I compared 7770 (Durango, 16 ROPs...) with 7850 (Orbis, 32 ROPs). They will get a lot more performance out of them compared to PC (APU environment, lower level programming), but they differences will still be there.
Could 16 ROPs vs 32 and the extra bandwidth mean 720p vs 1080p in quite a lot of games?
I already asked him dammit!
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
I dont understand why they are wasting so much energy on dvr crap?
the people who are going to buy the first 10-20 million of these console hardly watch tv as it is.
the people who are going to buy the first 10-20 million of these console hardly watch tv as it is.
Sorry I can't talk about that, in fact, this is my last comment in one of this threads (i mean consolewars, specs, etc, I will participate in gaf in the rest of the forums).
Apophis2036
Banned
Bgassassin was laughed of the forum for saying that almost a year ago...