Backwards compatibility is garbage

DXB-KNIGHT said:
Some of my coworkers bought a Vita just to play PS1 games, how come BC is garbage it's selling systems.
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That's only good for your coworkers. The first parties don't want people buying systems they don't make money on to play games they already own.

It reminds me of when people were bitching Sony didn't just push the PS3 as the cheapest/best bluray player on the market at launch, and it's because they don't want to sell PS3's to people who aren't buying PS3 games.

One of the reasons they gave for removing BC was soft PS3 software sales, at the time, I thought that was laughable, but it was a notable turning point for the system, sales did improve at that time, as did hardware sales, but they also managed a price cut. But removing BC did appear to help them, as they said it would.

When the best game on PS3 is God of War 2 for PS2, you're in bad shape.
 
StuBurns said:
I don't care personally, but I think it's a shitty practice not to include it.
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This is my sentiment on the subject. It isn't entitlement to want BC with the advent of digital distribution on consoles; it's just expecting consistency with the PC, mobile, and tablet platforms. I find it odd that people who do not care for it choose to actively insult others that do.

I personally would not mind not having any BC for this particular transition because many third party games are already available on PC and this generation, in particular, will do well with HD remasters. For those who purchased many PSN/XBLA games though, I completely understand why they would be upset. Not being able to play Journey, Fez, Doom or whatever else does not exactly instill faith in a service such as PSN or, worse off, a paid one like Live Gold.
 
Dizzan said:
Why don't you just keep the system you own the game on?
Games evolve and so do gamers. Once I have played a game once I'm pretty much done. Show me the next game.
Does anyone seriously consider it an essential feature of their next gen console? Just leave your ps3 plugged in for a little longer. I'm sure by your 40th play through, you will have had your fill of uncharted.
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I don't own a PS3. I refuse to buy a PS3 at this stage of it's life cycle (read PS4 is almost out). I would love to switch over to Sony but I want the PS3 back catalog available to me day 1 (without having to buy 2 systems).

I currently have an xbox and I play call of duty (current and previous versions) with my friends. I would love to continue having that option available to me. The lack of BC ensures that I can't.

Plus there are several games I haven't finished and I would love to get rid of my old console when the new one comes out. Once again without BC, I cannot do this.
 
Dizzan said:
Why don't you just keep the system you own the game on?

I hear people crying again that the next gen systems better be backwards compatible but apart from a few hardcore gamers, I don't know of many people who are still playing fifa 95 or rushing to get he from work to play pong.

Games evolve and so do gamers. Once I have played a game once I'm pretty much done. Show me the next game.

Does anyone seriously consider it an essential feature of their next gen console? Just leave your ps3 plugged in for a little longer. I'm sure by your 40th play through, you will have had your fill of uncharted.
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Ridiculous. We don't all live in gaming habitats some of us only have a single console plugged into a TV. 2 at a push.

Backwards compatibility serves multiple advantages I purchase an Xbox 360 to replace my Xbox but I still want to experience Halo 2 online and the 360 let me do that up until it was shut off.

Arguments against backwards compatibility are anti consumer.

Most modern TV's have a maximum of 4 HDMI ports. HD Cable Box, PS3, 360, leaves me with 1. 1 HDMI for PS4/Wii U/PC/Xbox 720.

Because a new gen is starting it does not mean that the old gen's just vanish.

I don't know of many people who are still playing fifa 95 or rushing to get he from work to play pong.
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These are terrible examples. New Fifa titles offer everything 95 did and more and Pong can be played on a calculator.

You do however see many people using their smart phones to play games like tetris and a big selling point for the Vita is the ability to play PS1 titles on the move.
 
I don't think the OP really understands why people want BC and/or how it is utilized by those who actually care. There are a multitude of reasons why backwards compatibility is important to consumers, especially at the beginning of a console launch.

  1. It fills in the gaps of the initially sparse launch library with the previous console's entire library.
  2. It allows people who never owned the previous console to play games from a couple years ago that they missed out on.
  3. If your old system breaks (as they often do), all of your old games would become suddenly unplayable without some sort of BC.
  4. The other option that has become popular while we've seen BC gradually phased out is being forced to re-purchase games that we already own in new formats (HD Collections, PS1/PS2 Classics... etc.) Having to re-buy games in order to replay them is not ideal.

Sounds to me like the OP is a certain type of gamer who isn't able to relate to the gaming habits of others. Since there are very few games these days that interest me, I occasionally find myself dipping into my PS2, Dreamcast, or even SNES games to revisit games that I either haven't played in a while or never beat. Fifa 95 is a joke example. Nobody is replaying old sports titles with maybe the exception of the classic NHL games on SNES and/or the Tecmo Bowl series. It's mostly classic RPG's and other such genres that have been underrepresented in recent years, so we like to go back and scratch that itch.
 
StalkerUKCG said:
Backwards compatibility serves multiple advantages I purchase an Xbox 360 to replace my Xbox but I still want to experience Halo 2 online and the 360 let me do that up until it was shut off.

Arguments against backwards compatibility are anti consumer.
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I fully agree with the second part, but the first one is a funny example. MS turned it off, you can't play Halo 2 anymore, online anyway. What we get from games has changed over time, what makes a game, what makes the experience, alters. If PS4 has no kind of backwards compatibility, and Journey will only ever work on a PS3, how long until you're forced to play it alone? Games in previous generations had a permanence to their design that meant moving the game forward always made sense, SMB1 is as fine a game today as it was then, and everyone should be able to still play it, but Halo 2? It requires a much larger commitment for it to remain viable.
 
Another note to add to all of the people who want BC because they don't want 5 consoles hooked up to a single TV.

Newer TV are only coming with 3 HDMI ports.
1 - For Cable/Sat
That leave 2 ports. I'm not going to be constantly switch HDMI cable on the back of my TV or buy one of those HDMI switch boxes. But that's me some people like those 2 things.
 
It's really not as simple as it used to be, especially because PSN / XBL will stay active next gen and you can end up with scenarios like this.

1: Friend sends you an invite to play something. You accept and start playing.

2: Friend sends you an invite, you say "hang on, I'm on the PS4". Shut that down, turn your PS3 on, switch AV input, find your controller, navigate through your list of games, load the game up (hope it doesn't have an hour of updates), get them to send you another invite.

Sounds great! This is of course aside from the fact that old consoles have a habit of breaking.
 
I play on PC and backwards compatibility is huge for me.

I just recently got done playing Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory.
I've played Fable, KOTOR, Psychonauts, Morrowind, Max Payne, Riddick, Serious Sam, and more. All within the last year.

Whether experiencing these games for the first time, or playing through again for nostalgia, you are doing yourself a disservice by not playing older games.


Dizzan said:
I don't know of many people who are still playing fifa 95 or rushing to get he from work to play pong.
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Gotta love a massive fallacy to weaken someone's argument significantly.
 
Dizzan said:
Why don't you just keep the system you own the game on?
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I like to have a clean, simple and minimalistic setup in my space not a house that looks like the electronic department. It's still a hobby for me.

And It's not garbage. It's your opinion.

I wish all the new consoles could have this option. In the case of the PS3 and PS4 I know there could be interessing titles to pick even after the PS4 is out. Wouldn't be great if I could play those PS3 games on my PS4? Yes. I would love it. Same with the 360.

I don't like the idea of having a PS3, 360, PS4 and even next-box all connected in on TV for the reasons above.

Same with Vita and PS1 titles and so on. It's a good option for me and I like it.
 
Some people either don't have the room or don't want five old consoles lying around. Plus if the console maker wants an instant large install base they should probably make their newest console work with games from their last one.
 
Another point is I've been PC only this generation.

But I've been eyeing some of the PS3 exclusives.
360 doesn't seem to have any interesting exclusives IMO.

If they had a model of PS4 with a slightly higher price tier and full BC, I would consider picking one up.

Demon Souls, Last of Us, MGS4, Uncharted, and RDR I would play on a PS4.
 
super-stardust.jpg
 
My deal with backwards compatibility on consoles, is that as long as I can play anything i purchased digitally, moving forward, then I'm happy.

Physical discs would be nice, but I would feel incredibly slighted if I couldn't play my downloaded games on new consoles.

Digital full releases would be the obvious grey area here, but other than PS+ freebies i don't really have any of those to begin with, so I'm not sure how I feel about them.

It's one of the reasons that Steam is so awesome though. It follows my account, and as long as I don't downgrade my PC, I know if I was able to play it before I can play it again.
 
Grief.exe said:
Another point is I've been PC only this generation.

But I've been eyeing some of the PS3 exclusives.
360 doesn't seem to have any interesting exclusives IMO.

If they had a model of PS4 with a slightly higher price tier and full BC, I would consider picking one up.

Demon Souls, Last of Us, MGS4, Uncharted, and RDR I would play on a PS4.
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Just so you know, and you probably do, but Dark Souls is on PC.
 
Backwards compatibility is funny, because I think the same people who decry it as useless would be cheerleading its inclusion if their company of choice supported it.
 
I think it depends on the previous generation and what was on offer, since xbox live and microsoft have a lot of digital content at full prices and keep releasing more games on demand and arcade titles every week I would expect their next console to continue playing them.

Xbox to 360? they did an ok job and it would have been nice to play everything but it's not the same imo.

ps2 games on ps3? should have happened but at least there are HD collections and ps1 titles still work via software.
 
It doesn't mean anything to me so I don't really care too much if they scrap it. I mean right now I have about 2 physical games (and I'm trading 1 in towards god of war soon) and the only digital games I have that I still care about are recent PS+ stuff that I haven't got to yet. When PS4 comes around I'm not going to be wasting my time playing PS3 games that I could be playing right now. I'm going to be playing Watch Dogs or whatever else is out.
 
I disagree. I'd prefer backward compatible systems. Having a Wii U that can play Wii games and 3DS that can play DS games is great. Even Vita with the ability to only play digital PSP games is great. I never had a PSP so I missed out on Persona 3 Portable.
 
Dizzan said:
I hear people crying again that the next gen systems better be backwards compatible but apart from a few hardcore gamers, I don't know of many people who are still playing fifa 95 or rushing to get he from work to play pong.
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This is an amazing argument. "Nobody wants to play aged sports games, so why would you want to play your favorite games from this generation?"
 
I skipped Wii.

Just bought a Wii U. It was definitely a big part of the reason I decided to jump in now so early. Many Wii games I missed that will keep me satisfied until Nintendo starts hitting on all cylinders.

It's a selling point basically.
 
Maybe.. Just maybe i"m a ps+ member and have made myself a huge backlog.

Older games are also really good for the consoles first year where it has start up problems.. Aka not much games
 
It might be hard to believe, but some people either don't have the space or can't afford to fill their homes up with every console under the sun. Oftentimes the old console has to be sold just to afford the new console. BC makes it more tolerable in that situation.

It also makes any software droughts much more tolerable. I basically survived the first 6 months of the 3DS' lifespan due to the wonders of Pokemon White.
 
Clearly the OP hasn't got a Vita, because if he/she had one, he/she would realise that a huge catalogue of PSP games that were broken from a control standpoint, can now be played on Vita using its custom control scheme.
 
My family had a Gamecube and I missed a ton of titles on it. Went back and bought those titles and played on my Wii. Without BC? Would not have bothered and missed out on great titles, so I was happy with it.

I was interested in the PS3, because I only had time to play the handful of Gamecube games I never had a PS2. I wasn't going to drop $600 on it, so I was waiting for a price drop. Once they cut out the BC, I decided to not get one. Vita not having BC made it easier for me to not buy one too.

Hell, I even played GBA games I missed on my DS for years. I'm looking at DS games I missed to play on my 3DS.

BC is fantastic for titles you missed out on. It's better ten fold for download titles (I've not even moved my Wii titles over because of how bad the implementation of it on the Wii U is. No proper BC is BS.)

If I remember right, Nintendo originally wanted the SNES to play NES games too. It's just a staple idea of the gaming industry.
 
Dizzan said:
Why don't you just keep the system you own the game on?

I hear people crying again that the next gen systems better be backwards compatible but apart from a few hardcore gamers, I don't know of many people who are still playing fifa 95 or rushing to get he from work to play pong.

Games evolve and so do gamers. Once I have played a game once I'm pretty much done. Show me the next game.

Does anyone seriously consider it an essential feature of their next gen console? Just leave your ps3 plugged in for a little longer. I'm sure by your 40th play through, you will have had your fill of uncharted.
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Wrong. Here's why:

You assumed that everyone's situation can be solved by your solution, which is not only incredibly inattentive but sort of dumb if you take into consideration that people might not own or are planning to sell/trade the former console.

You use the examples of FIFA95 and Uncharted, despite these not being good examples of something somebody would go back and play through (ie, RPGs), you don't even acknowledge the possibility of somebody wanting to play/share a favored gaming experience.

So you set up examples that only reinforce your negligent argument.

Then you said this, "Games evolve and so do gamers. Once I have played a game once I'm pretty much done. Show me the next game."

And that is your premise to this argument, "Backwards compatibility is garbage."

Not convincing at all.

I disagree and I think that backwards compatibility is very important; however, whether it is through downloadable content (ie, PS1/PS2/VC Classics) or hardware in the console is an entirely different discussion altogether. Companies can save money by skipping on the hardware side, but make money by offering games through digital distribution.
 
I love what Nintendo is doing. Putting Miiverse support into Virtual Consoles games is one of the most wonderful things they are doing with Wii U. I just love that there's a way to talk with other players that are playing the classic games and share screen shots.
 
It's simple.

Games are not disposable trash.

GOG.com, an entire business venture, is predicated on this very notion. 20 years later and people will pay good money for good games to play them again (or for the first time).

The mentality of "play it once, sell it, buy the next console" is an artifact from the side of gaming culture that has no experience with platform continuity (aka, the PC).
 
I just recently bought a PSP GO, because it was cheap and I knew there were a small handful of games I missed out on that I wanted to play. Now that I have one, I'm kinda surprised that there isn't much else on the platform I want to play except for 5-10 games (although I'm still looking). However, thanks to BC it's given me access to one of my favorite libraries, the PS1. Not only that, but I don't like to play old-old games on the tv because of how terrible it looks, and also I prefer to play these long ass RPGs on a handheld, not a tv. So PSP BC is perfect for me, and probably how I'll use my PSP 50% of the time.

For my Wii U, I actually still have my Wii hooked up. This is due solely to the fact that I soft-modded my Wii a long time ago and put all my discs away in the garage, and don't feel like looking for them. I did use my Wii's BC to play Gamecube games though.

Finally, for Durango/Orbis, I hope whichever one I get is BC. I have a very long 360 backlog, and didn't play my PS3 very much. The first year is sure to be dry, and this is the perfect time to work on backlogs. Of course one could leave their old consoles hooked up, but that takes away from the excitement of using a new piece of hardware with a (hopefully) new controller, new UI, and apps/OS etc. Playing with a new toy is fun, even if you're playing with it in old ways.
 
Opiate said:
1) Space. As in, the conservation of physical space. This generation of consoles was already physically big; adding in 3/4/5 more consoles to play all my games would be intolerable. If you live in a McMansion or have no family, maybe this isn't a problem for you.

2) Cost. I can sell my PS2 instead of keep it if the PS3 is perfectly backwards compatible.

3) Convenience. Even if space and cost were not an issue, the ability to fire up a single system with a single controller which houses all of my games is very convenient.

There you go.
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I don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend. I really don't.
 
That devices and services which offer old games sell well (see PSN, Virtua Console, Classic compilations and republishing of old games, HD-ports of favorite series, GoG and so on) to me means that not everyone wants to just play the most current games. Maybe you don't like to play old games, and that's totally fine. I also get the argument of an enthusiast with no time who says he'd rather play new state of the art-experiences instead of classics after 9 hours of work. Still, and I think I'm not alone, after 9 hours of work, I often prefer classics over new games since they are not as demanding to me (since I know them already and yet still like to replay them) and instead offer instant fun. To each his/her own.

I mean, you can argue that games - at least some of them - age badly. Then again, as others have stated, some games don't age at all or represent genres you seldom find today and in general stay relevant. Or maybe someone really would love to dwelve into nostalgia and replay FIFA 95 because he remembers how much fun he had with his buddys when they were teenagers or whatever. Like you maybe listen to old music or rebuy old movies for nostalgia - or for redescovering something you missed out on. I missed out on 16 Bit SEGA games (I was a Nintendo-Kid) and went on to build up a small collection of almost 20 classics over the last 7 years or so. I "only" had an NES and Gameboy and got an old Super Nintendo at around 2000 or so. Still buying games sometimes.

I find it sad that it seems so outlandish to think of games like movies in that regard. I speak for myself, but I watch movies from several decades ago up until black and white (can't really get into most silent movies, but black and white is a-ok with me. Watching classics from the 60s and 70s is especially rewarding to me personally, being a big fan of western movies, old scifi-flicks and the like). As stated, I also play games from several decades ago and still buy old stuff. I'd wish they were more easily playable on modern system. Now I get behind cartridge-based gaming not available on modern systems (even though... adaptors and stuff could be offered for a small profit, like the Gameboy-Player for the Gamecube, only that it plays N64 games or whatever), and I get technical difficulties and incompatibilities with programming to get everything to run (which often is only possible on much stronger devices if you don't include original hardware like the Playstation systems did, and it is expensive to program if you want a bullet-proof emulation)

Nevertheless, how uber-epic would a PS4 be when it could handle PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4 games? That's probably not gonna happen, but entertain the thought - all of these are disc-based games. You could play ALL the games released from 1994 up to 2014 (that's 20 years of gaming!!!) on ONE system. Wouldn't this be of more value and also more convenient for you than to clutter your living room or wherever you play games with 4 devices (some of which are probably broken after extensive play, laser tech be damned) and a few dozen of cables and controllers?

I am sad that Wii U does not play Gamecube games anymore. Yes, I still have a gamecube. But as it stands, I don't really have the space for so many new devices under my television all at the same time anymore (my collection goes up until the NES, I'm sure I have more than ten gaming devices. Yet I'd like to be able to jump in and play classic games without keeping everything; and laser-based technology has the habit to break down after a few years of usage, especially in newer consoles it seems).

So in the end, you don't need it? Fine, to each their own. Yet calling it garbage is just wrong. (and actually.. when I think about it, why not offer several versions of, e.g., the PS4. Make the one that plays PS1-2-3 games 100 dollars more expensive for additional built-in hardware or emulators - I'd buy it. And when someone is sure they don't need it, they save 100 bucks. But yeah, I get that reselling old games on some download service is much more profitable for the companies involved ^^" I enjoy buying things I like twice! *sarcasm, kind of, I really enjoyed buying Jet Set Radio twice :D*...)
 
DXB-KNIGHT said:
Some of my coworkers bought a Vita just to play PS1 games, how come BC is garbage it's selling systems.
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Some of? 3 of your coworkers buying a system for backwards compatibility isn't going to sway developers to make games for the Vita, nor is it going to make it a selling point of the system. BC does nothing for any company, and it doesn't sell units.
 
FIFA is a timely release. Its rare that sports games have classic games - as sports games depend on rosters. Although there are some classic games, not saying there aren't.

Your choice in games in this post is baffling though.
 
People with current gen consoles wanting BC in the next: Understandable, have supported the company/platform, would be great if the manufacturer included BC for these people

People without current gen consoles wanting BC in the next: I don't get this. You didn't support the company/platform, why would they feel the need to serve you when you've had years to buy their platform and enjoy their content? The option would be a privilege/gift to these users who in no way deserve it.
 
I tend to care for the first couple years, because they're normally still games coming out for the old console I want to play, and titles on the old title I'm still playing, which is especially true if you're a fan of fighting games.
 
This topic is hilarious. I don't keep all my systems hooked up at once. If I want to play an Xbox game I never got to it's nice to be able to just pop it in. I only really expect one gen back of compatibility.
 
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