EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect

Baconsammy said:
If people are melting down this hard from just rumors, E3 and the pre-conferences are going to be a bloodbath.
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Indeed.
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border said:
Dishonored was $30 for quite some time, on a lot of services. I believe Assassin's Creed 3 was as well.
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Console games go on sale too. Several places were selling both of those for $30 or under back in November.

I think new game deals are often better on console especially now that we're seeing more and more $60 PC games. Where the PC really goes ahead is when the floor completely drops out on the price. There's too much overhead on a boxed game to sell it for 10 bucks.

Anyway, that's really neither here nor there.
 
Kainazzo said:
I see the word 'draconian' pop up all the time whenever I see topics like this. Now, I'm not arguing against the validity of it in this context, but I'm curious as to why the phrase 'draconian DRM' is almost a single word unto itself. Where did it start? If this word no longer existed, what would replace it? Unfair DRM? Disdainful DRM? What would people say?

Legitimately curious, I wouldn't honestly prod over tiny details. I only see 'draconian' used online when DRM/copyright is concerned.
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for most of GAF, legitimate DRM = Steam and only Steam.

If games come down in price at a reasonable level like they have to on PC, then used isn't as needed. You just have to be willing to wait on things you're not sure on. The real issue is that console AAA games are overpriced and overbudgeted.
 
I'm getting bummed out pretty hard here if this is true, guys. It definitely means I won't be buying nearly as many games if this comes to pass. May have to pick up a less expensive hobby, like hoop rolling, or mumblety-peg.
 
But again, what would happened though, if Microsoft managed to have first and third party games to retail for a friendlier price because of this ?
 
alstein said:
for most of GAF, legitimate DRM = Steam and only Steam.

If games come down in price at a reasonable level like they have to on PC, then used isn't as needed. You just have to be willing to wait on things you're not sure on. The real issue is that console AAA games are overpriced and overbudgeted.
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I'd say "the Steam approach" rather than Steam. Provide me a discount, a useful service, offline play after activation, and a functional-forever promise (or at least DRM as weak as Steam's) and I'll go for your locked-down box; there's no difference to me between selling a game back for $30 or just getting $30 off MSRP.

The problem is that XBL Games On Demand will happily charge $60 for years, console games are insert-and-play rather than the pain in the ass of custom installers and original-manual-hunting that PC gaming was before Steam, the system they're describing won't let me play in a hotel room or rent a conference hall for a party, and MS has a hard time sometimes letting me use DLC I bought for their current system (never mind Xbox 1 stuff that's all gone) and is likely to make their security at least as smart as PS3 or 3DS.
 
Kenak said:
The worry is that Sony will follow.
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I can't see either of them having the balls to do this unless they're certain the other guy is doing it as well.

They'll do this cooperatively or they won't do it at all. It's the only way to not hand considerable marketshare to your opponent.

And there have been ample rumors that both were looking into this.

Edit:

Honestly, though, I don't see the point. We're quickly moving to a DD-only world, and you can't resell your digital content. Just encourage that becoming the norm instead of taking a huge word of mouth blow by trying to restrict reselling/trading/lending physical content. The end result is the same, only one takes a bit longer.
 
no used games will most likely mean the prices will come down faster.

When a game is released at $60 it will sell to the maximum amount that it can get at $60. Be that 100 copies or 10 million copies. But once you get x amount of copies out there you will get y amount of used copies. So now your going to sell less at $60 and not only that but a lot of the market for you at $50 will be eaten up.

Drop the price to $40 and you can sell at that price point but your going to face used games at $30 or even $20. Every price point will be partialy eaten up by used games.


With no used games you developers can maximize on price points and drop quicker as sales level off at different pricep oints.
 
Deus Ex Machina said:
Sony was the first to patent this technology.. Its more like MS is following Sony.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/next-playstation-to-lock-out-used-games-report-6368582
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Or Microsoft is using a pre-existing tech and Sony only came up with theirs in response to devs letting them know that Microsoft intends to go forward with it. I have no doubt that Microsoft would do this if they thought it would give them some sort of tangible advantage with third party publishers.
 
What i don't get is if both PS4 & 720 didn't allow used games how would Sony and MS do that knowing Nintendo's WiiU does. Is Nintendo not a threat? I'm sure Nintendo would wave their "our console plays used games" flag every chance they get.
 
taizuke said:
What i don't get is if both PS4 & 720 didn't allow used games how would Sony and MS do that knowing Nintendo's WiiU does. Is Nintendo not a threat? I'm sure Nintendo would wave their "our console plays used games" flag every chance they get.
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The Wii U, a threat? You're gonna have to come up with a better joke to make me laugh.
 
Neuromancer said:
I'm getting bummed out pretty hard here if this is true, guys. It definitely means I won't be buying nearly as many games if this comes to pass. May have to pick up a less expensive hobby, like hoop rolling, or mumblety-peg.
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Spend more on a gaming PC, and get all the games you can ever play for next to nothing via steam sales, GMG, and humble bundles. Consoles are so archaic.
 
eastmen said:
no used games will most likely mean the prices will come down faster.

When a game is released at $60 it will sell to the maximum amount that it can get at $60. Be that 100 copies or 10 million copies. But once you get x amount of copies out there you will get y amount of used copies. So now your going to sell less at $60 and not only that but a lot of the market for you at $50 will be eaten up.

Drop the price to $40 and you can sell at that price point but your going to face used games at $30 or even $20. Every price point will be partialy eaten up by used games.


With no used games you developers can maximize on price points and drop quicker as sales level off at different pricep oints.
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This is not impossible, but I find it highly unlikely given that used games likely help drive prices down at least somewhat.
 
eastmen said:
no used games will most likely mean the prices will come down faster.

When a game is released at $60 it will sell to the maximum amount that it can get at $60. Be that 100 copies or 10 million copies. But once you get x amount of copies out there you will get y amount of used copies. So now your going to sell less at $60 and not only that but a lot of the market for you at $50 will be eaten up.

Drop the price to $40 and you can sell at that price point but your going to face used games at $30 or even $20. Every price point will be partialy eaten up by used games.


With no used games you developers can maximize on price points and drop quicker as sales level off at different pricep oints.
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I don't know why people haven't gotten this. Steam is the perfect example. Hell, I'm the perfect example. Games are usually released at the $50 - $60 price points. Well, first of all, there's no way in hell I'm paying $60 for a game. So three months after release say it's been lowered to $40. No way in hell I'm paying $40 for a game. Three months later it's down to $20. I'll buy that.

People need to understand that games have different worths to different people. For a lot of people, CoD games are worth $60. To me, they're worth $10. Once a game maximizes its sales, do you honestly think publishers will keep that price forever? No. They'll lower it because they know that everyone who was willing to pay $60 for it already has. Steam sales are big business for a lot of companies because the prices usually hit far more people's maximum price just by lowering it 33-75%. Hell, I own close to 400 games on Steam and I wouldn't have bought 90% of them if they never went on sale.

So instead of complaining about sustained higher costs, look at it for what it will actually mean - prices just as low or lower than used games sales. You'll just have to wait a few months for it to happen (just like used games). And just a side note, I'm not 100% for this change, but there's been a lot of hyperbole around here with people talking about publishers never lowering prices.
 
Moostache said:
Fuck 'em....if and when this news is confirmed; I am going to do 2 things:

1) Refuse to ever buy it (my PC rig will get the cash instead of consoles)

2) I will pirate the shit out of every single XB360 I own - I have 5 consoles in my home now, and they will ALL get chipped and flashed and made ready to run copies and non-official code - and I will also pirate every game from my back log - I'll snap the discs that haven't yet been played but that I own in half and download illegal copies of them just because I can, and any game that I MIGHT have been tempted to buy in the console transition years will strictly come from the black market as well.

These money grubbing control freaks can suck my balls if they think for one minute that I have any intention of supporting ANY product that tells ME how I can CHOOSE to use it or place draconian restrictions on me as part of the deal for using said product. Its time these fuckers wake up and realize that the only thing that gives any of their product value is the desire of people to experience it. Start dictating how that can happen in such ham-fisted ways and its game over, pun intended.

I dare them to be this stupid.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs
 
Bsigg12 said:
The Wii U, a threat? You're gonna have to come up with a better joke to make me laugh.
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You kinda have a point... lol But, what about third party developers? Are they suppose to expect losses on WiiU because it allows used games while PS4 & 720 doesn't? If so, would then the losses on WiiU be "acceptable" because the difference is never going to as huge as you have on 360 & PS3?
 
Moostache said:
Fuck 'em....if and when this news is confirmed; I am going to do 2 things:

1) Refuse to ever buy it (my PC rig will get the cash instead of consoles)

2) I will pirate the shit out of every single XB360 I own - I have 5 consoles in my home now, and they will ALL get chipped and flashed and made ready to run copies and non-official code - and I will also pirate every game from my back log - I'll snap the discs that haven't yet been played but that I own in half and download illegal copies of them just because I can, and any game that I MIGHT have been tempted to buy in the console transition years will strictly come from the black market as well.

These money grubbing control freaks can suck my balls if they think for one minute that I have any intention of supporting ANY product that tells ME how I can CHOOSE to use it or place draconian restrictions on me as part of the deal for using said product. Its time these fuckers wake up and realize that the only thing that gives any of their product value is the desire of people to experience it. Start dictating how that can happen in such ham-fisted ways and its game over, pun intended.

I dare them to be this stupid.
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I'd gladly take those disks off your hands if you're just gonna break them. ;)
 
Moostache said:
Fuck 'em....if and when this news is confirmed; I am going to do 2 things:

1) Refuse to ever buy it (my PC rig will get the cash instead of consoles)

2) I will pirate the shit out of every single XB360 I own - I have 5 consoles in my home now, and they will ALL get chipped and flashed and made ready to run copies and non-official code - and I will also pirate every game from my back log - I'll snap the discs that haven't yet been played but that I own in half and download illegal copies of them just because I can, and any game that I MIGHT have been tempted to buy in the console transition years will strictly come from the black market as well.

These money grubbing control freaks can suck my balls if they think for one minute that I have any intention of supporting ANY product that tells ME how I can CHOOSE to use it or place draconian restrictions on me as part of the deal for using said product. Its time these fuckers wake up and realize that the only thing that gives any of their product value is the desire of people to experience it. Start dictating how that can happen in such ham-fisted ways and its game over, pun intended.

I dare them to be this stupid.
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Lemme guess...

iSIxFelaLvNh5.jpg


???

Actually, Raines is really the only person in the world who has an excuse for melting down this much. But I'm sure the real J. Paul Raines would have more dignity...
 
I didn't read read beyond the first 2 pages but... I just can't imagine this being accurate. I don't have a 360 but to me that report reads like a anti-MS fanboys daydream of MS's strategy for next gen.
 
I'm going with this being true (second hand rumour), but I'm assuming there's a part of the sentence missing. It should read:

"No second-hand games without verification through MS patented system."

There will be some sort of system in place to allow transferral of licences between individuals, possibly with an added bulk licence transferral for GameStop and its ilk.

Also why Sony might not follow. It's going to be a difficult process to implement and maintain, so MS must have a very well developed organised system. One that can't be easily mimicked by Sony.
 
Moostache said:
Fuck 'em....if and when this news is confirmed; I am going to do 2 things:

1) Refuse to ever buy it (my PC rig will get the cash instead of consoles)

2) I will pirate the shit out of every single XB360 I own - I have 5 consoles in my home now, and they will ALL get chipped and flashed and made ready to run copies and non-official code - and I will also pirate every game from my back log - I'll snap the discs that haven't yet been played but that I own in half and download illegal copies of them just because I can, and any game that I MIGHT have been tempted to buy in the console transition years will strictly come from the black market as well.

These money grubbing control freaks can suck my balls if they think for one minute that I have any intention of supporting ANY product that tells ME how I can CHOOSE to use it or place draconian restrictions on me as part of the deal for using said product. Its time these fuckers wake up and realize that the only thing that gives any of their product value is the desire of people to experience it. Start dictating how that can happen in such ham-fisted ways and its game over, pun intended.

I dare them to be this stupid.
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ohmrjpp.gif


Man, it's only February and this is a contender for pre-E3-Meltdown award!
 
taizuke said:
What i don't get is if both PS4 & 720 didn't allow used games how would Sony and MS do that knowing Nintendo's WiiU does. Is Nintendo not a threat? I'm sure Nintendo would wave their "our console plays used games" flag every chance they get.
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they aren't a threat because they aren't going anywhere. there's usually room in most markets for two competitors and it's Sony/MS fighting for the second spot (even if that second spot is likely to be #1 in sales). if third-parties make demands on them, they can't just ignore it because their position is easily lost.
 
BobLoblaw said:
I don't know why people haven't gotten this. Steam is the perfect example. Hell, I'm the perfect example. Games are usually released at the $50 - $60 price points. Well, first of all, there's no way in hell I'm paying $60 for a game. So three months after release say it's been lowered to $40. No way in hell I'm paying $40 for a game. Three months later it's down to $20. I'll buy that.

People need to understand that games have different worths to different people. For a lot of people, CoD games are worth $60. To me, they're worth $10. Once a game maximizes its sales, do you honestly think publishers will keep that price forever? No. They'll lower it because they know that everyone who was willing to pay $60 for it already has. Steam sales are big business for a lot of companies because the prices usually hit far more people's maximum price just by lowering it 33-75%. Hell, I own close to 400 games on Steam and I wouldn't have bought 90% of them if they never went on sale.

So instead of complaining about sustained higher costs, look at it for what it will actually mean - prices just as low or lower than used games sales. You'll just have to wait a few months for it to happen (just like used games). And just a side note, I'm not 100% for this change, but there's been a lot of hyperbole around here with people talking about publishers never lowering prices.
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It's also worthwhile to note that pubs could easily do this just by... Wait for it... Cutting prices on their games aggressively when they start to falter. No DRM required, just put out a press release that MSRP is now $50 the second it stays reliably in-stock on Gamestop.com and so on.
 
taizuke said:
You kinda have a point... lol But, what about third party developers? Are they suppose to expect losses on WiiU because it allows used games while PS4 & 720 doesn't? If so, would then the losses on WiiU be "acceptable" because the difference is never going to as huge as you have on 360 & PS3?
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As we saw today, publishers aren't even confident their games can stand on their own on the Wii U. Nintendo is backed into a corner right now. Regardless of the 1st party bonanza that will take place later this year, they don't have the gimmick or cool new tech moniker like they had with the Wii. The Wii U is currently a very difficult sell.

If Sony and Microsoft go that route, Nintendo would have to react because of the publisher side of things. If say Ubisoft came out and said Sony and Microsoft have systems in place to get us more profit, why don't you? Nintendo would have to do something or risk losing a publisher entirely. Developers don't matter at that level. If a publisher is not on good terms with one of the big 3, it becomes blatantly obvious in quality of the ports and games overall.

Will it actually happen, the no second hand games thing? No, I don't believe so, but it sure is fun to speculate.
 
the big difference with the pc market is there are competing stores as the platform still lets you run code from wherever you want, except for 50% of windows8 that is. That makes the two situations completely different.
 
travisbickle said:
I'm going with this being true (second hand rumour), but I'm assuming there's a part of the sentence missing. It should read:

"No second-hand games without verification through MS patented system."
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Yep - this is my bet. Your last two paragraphs are crazy talk though.

I really, really hope Microsoft (and Sony) take a cue from Valve and be a bit less rigid with pricing on DD stuff. Have a big sale for games after sales have tailed off. Have sales just to bring people to your storefront.

Doesn't Valve have a full-time economist on staff that studies game pricing vs sales and consumer behavior all day?
 
Bsigg12 said:
As we saw today, publishers aren't even confident their games can stand on their own on the Wii U. Nintendo is backed into a corner right now. Regardless of the 1st party bonanza that will take place later this year, they don't have the gimmick or cool new tech moniker like they had with the Wii. The Wii U is currently a very difficult sell.

If Sony and Microsoft go that route, Nintendo would have to react because of the publisher side of things. If say Ubisoft came out and said Sony and Microsoft have systems in place to get us more profit, why don't you? Nintendo would have to do something or risk losing a publisher entirely. Developers don't matter at that level. If a publisher is not on good terms with one of the big 3, it becomes blatantly obvious in quality of the ports and games overall.

Will it actually happen, the no second hand games thing? No, I don't believe so, but it sure is fun to speculate.
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The deal with Nintendo is that we've already seen they can turtle up and turn a profit selling "the Mario toy" rather than what we now think of as a games console. Not necessarily sure they would, but the option's on the table and they're one of the few pubs who have mastered selling games that people actually keep so their tonedeafness is even more likely to produce a healthy hibernation through AAA's final shitstorm than Sony's is.
 
Wellscha said:
Paying $30 for a game that's 12 - 18 months old =/= released at $30.
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I bought Hitman Absolution, Sonic Racing, Dishonored and Darksiders 2 pre-release for around $30-$35 each. Sure it doesn't happen with every AAA game, but with a lot of them. Consoles need something like that for digital releases if used games go away, even if only for the more 'tech savvy' users to take advantage of.
 
calder said:
I didn't read read beyond the first 2 pages but... I just can't imagine this being accurate. I don't have a 360 but to me that report reads like a anti-MS fanboys daydream of MS's strategy for next gen.
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I can imagine the second part being true (about used games). I dont believe the rumor about always having to be online to play games. I could imagine it actually being that the console is always on like a PC and is always connected to wifi (if you have it connected).
 
Most always forget that "LOL, PC has been doing this forever", no second hand sales here

You aren't tied to one entity for your purchases

Steam maybe DRM in the way it's set-up, but it has competitors

GOG, amazon, Greeman Gaming, etc.
Then you have the Indie Bundles which offer games for pennies on the dollar

When you buy PS4 or Xbox you are handicapped to the discretion of that platform holder

I have no option to buy from anyone else
I can't buy from Best Buy the DD version which is "PS4works" or "Durangoworks"

Publishers put their titles for MSRP and later on ask for it to be lowered, but do you really think Sony or MS want to lose out onto licenses fees by doing what Steam Sales do
Once you lower a titles price, it really is hard to bring it back up
They have setup their own monopolies
Play by their rules

Steam sometimes doesn't give the best deal, other sites offer better deals for the game/games, but if the game is stated "Steamworks" at least you can add it your Steam library and enjoy it
Steam doesn't get pissed, bitches or moans as to why amazon and other competitors are allowed to sell product it offers and can then be turn-around and used on that service
Steam is more open to allow competition, if it was like how MS and Sony are, PC would really have the "Dead" platform

Piracy also takes a hit due to games being so cheap
Why go through cracks, key loggers, un-patched mess
Just pay the $5+ and get the definitive version (wait for Steam Sales)
 
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