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[Interrobang]

To the people making the "lol you say you're going to PC but they don't have used games either": That isn't the argument people here are making when they say that.

PC gaming has lots of alternatives, competitive pricing and unbelievable deals. If we've learned anything from how Microsoft handles digital distribution, it's that Skyrim is still $59.99 on games on demand. Obviously there's no reason for Microsoft to have the same deals as Steam if there's no alternatives.

Also, seeing as how SONY patented this first, I'm sure Microsoft has this idea as a failsafe for if SONY announces it. Chances are if SONY doesn't announce this, we won't be hearing Microsoft talk about it either.

 

[iNvid02]

Fuck 'em....if and when this news is confirmed; I am going to do 2 things:

1) Refuse to ever buy it (my PC rig will get the cash instead of consoles)

2) I will pirate the shit out of every single XB360 I own - I have 5 consoles in my home now, and they will ALL get chipped and flashed and made ready to run copies and non-official code - and I will also pirate every game from my back log - I'll snap the discs that haven't yet been played but that I own in half and download illegal copies of them just because I can, and any game that I MIGHT have been tempted to buy in the console transition years will strictly come from the black market as well.

These money grubbing control freaks can suck my balls if they think for one minute that I have any intention of supporting ANY product that tells ME how I can CHOOSE to use it or place draconian restrictions on me as part of the deal for using said product. Its time these fuckers wake up and realize that the only thing that gives any of their product value is the desire of people to experience it. Start dictating how that can happen in such ham-fisted ways and its game over, pun intended.

I dare them to be this stupid.

i give this meltdown a 10/10 - i was with you until point 2 lol

 

[DEADEVIL]

Originally Posted by Moostache:
Fuck 'em....if and when this news is confirmed; I am going to do 2 things:

1) Refuse to ever buy it (my PC rig will get the cash instead of consoles)

2) I will pirate the shit out of every single XB360 I own - I have 5 consoles in my home now, and they will ALL get chipped and flashed and made ready to run copies and non-official code - and I will also pirate every game from my back log - I'll snap the discs that haven't yet been played but that I own in half and download illegal copies of them just because I can, and any game that I MIGHT have been tempted to buy in the console transition years will strictly come from the black market as well.

These money grubbing control freaks can suck my balls if they think for one minute that I have any intention of supporting ANY product that tells ME how I can CHOOSE to use it or place draconian restrictions on me as part of the deal for using said product. Its time these fuckers wake up and realize that the only thing that gives any of their product value is the desire of people to experience it. Start dictating how that can happen in such ham-fisted ways and its game over, pun intended.

I dare them to be this stupid.


i give this meltdown a 10/10 - i was with you until point 2 lol

Hilarious.

The exact reason why you can't take any of this serious. People are blowing it out of proportion because it's MS period.

When this gets debunked there will be something new. As always.

But I agree that point 2 will now go down in infamy as Meltdown Exhibit A

 

[rinse82]

#2 in meltdown post is funny because chipping 5 consoles is no different than chipping 1; at the end of the day you are only going to pirate 1 copy of each game. lol

 

[Big Takeover]

To the people making the "lol you say you're going to PC but they don't have used games either": That isn't the argument people here are making when they say that.

PC gaming has lots of alternatives, competitive pricing and unbelievable deals. If we've learned anything from how Microsoft handles digital distribution, it's that Skyrim is still $59.99 on games on demand. Obviously there's no reason for Microsoft to have the same deals as Steam if there's no alternatives.

Also, seeing as how SONY patented this first, I'm sure Microsoft has this idea as a failsafe for if SONY announces it. Chances are if SONY doesn't announce this, we won't be hearing Microsoft talk about it either.

How much is Skyrim on Steam right now? $59.99

Of course Microsoft has done a very poor job with DD, but imo it's more about allegiances to retail than lack of competition. If any of this news if correct, that looks like it going to be changing.

If the next-gen consoles deal in game codes, which it sounds like they will, presumably retailers will be selling them which means plenty of competition on price.

 

[Interrobang]

How much is Skyrim on Steam right now? $59.99

Of course Microsoft has done a very poor job with DD, but imo it's more about allegiances to retail than lack of competition. If any of this news if correct, that looks like it going to be changing.

If the next-gen consoles deal in game codes, which it sounds like they will, presumably retailers will be selling them which means plenty of competition on price.

I'm not sure how much it is on Steam right now, but my point is there are alternatives. You can go to Amazon, Green Man, GOG, etc. and look for this game. With Microsoft, if something is $59.99 there is no alternative and no reason to lower the price. Ever. Without competition in the same space competitive pricing doesn't exist.

 

[Doffen]

To the people making the "lol you say you're going to PC but they don't have used games either": That isn't the argument people here are making when they say that.

PC gaming has lots of alternatives, competitive pricing and unbelievable deals. If we've learned anything from how Microsoft handles digital distribution, it's that Skyrim is still $59.99 on games on demand. Obviously there's no reason for Microsoft to have the same deals as Steam if there's no alternatives.

A developer at Twisted Pixel (Microsoft 1. party) said the following:



I agree with him. What makes you think Microsoft will continue their old pricing policy?

 

[Petrie]

I thought we all knew MS needed to keep retailers happy. This is news to people?

 

[Baconsammy]

I thought we all knew MS needed to keep retailers happy. This is news to people?

Anyone that was paying attention knew this. It's why GoD titles are MSRP. It's also why Microsoft doesn't release retail games day-and-date on XBL. It's a shitty policy, but it's one they agreed to. Doubtful they'll ever agree to it again.

 

[ascii42]

I can imagine the second part being true (about used games). I dont believe the rumor about always having to be online to play games. I could imagine it actually being that the console is always on like a PC and is always connected to wifi (if you have it connected).

But how is that different from the 360?

 

[PsychoSoldier]

If Skyrim is still 59.99 on Steam when competing stores exist on the same platform, one has to wonder how good prices will be on a store that has a monopoly on a particular platform.

 

[Petrie]

Anyone that was paying attention knew this. It's why GoD titles are MSRP. It's also why Microsoft doesn't release retail games day-and-date on XBL. It's a shitty policy, but it's one they agreed to. Doubtful they'll ever agree to it again.

Doesn't seem like they'll need to. Companies simply weren't prepared for how fast this gen moved.

If Skyrim is still 59.99 on Steam when competing stores exist on the same platform, one has to wonder how good prices will be on a store that has a monopoly on a particular platform.

Steam always keeps the MSRP up and offers sales. Skyrim is $29.99 on a somewhat regular basis. Not really the same as GoD where it's $60, period.

 

[jbug617]

Some games on GoD got better pricing along the way.

 

[Baconsammy]

But how is that different from the 360?

Are you asking me how an always-on console is different from a console that isn't always-on? I'm not sure I understand your question.

Some games on GoD got better pricing along the way.

Yes, as MSRP dropped, the price on GoD dropped.

 

[Big Takeover]

I'm not sure how much it is on Steam right now, but my point is there are alternatives. You can go to Amazon, Green Man, GOG, etc. and look for this game. With Microsoft, if something is $59.99 there is no alternative and no reason to lower the price. Ever. Without competition in the same space competitive pricing doesn't exist.

You're right - DD for DD there's currently no competition and that's not good.

The difference is in the differences in the platforms themselves. PC is predominately DD, where as consoles are predominately physical. You want a deal on Skyrim for the 360? It can be bought on sale at any of the retailers, or buy used which is kind of what this whole thing is about.

You might correctly say well that's not apples to apples, but if the goal is playing Skyrim on the cheap pricing is not that dissimilar. The platforms are fundamentally different though. It's not going to be apples-to-apples. If PC was still mostly disks, and had used games, what would Steam be like? It was like that when it first started, and it took a long time to develop into what it is now.

I'm not really rebuffing what you're saying though. You are right of course.

 

[ascii42]

Are you asking me how an always-on console is different from a console that isn't always-on? I'm not sure I understand your question.

Er...meant to cut out that part. I was talking about the always online thing. I didn't quite get the always on thing. Do you mean like Wii Connect 24, or whatever that was called?

 

[Baconsammy]

Er...meant to cut out that part. I was talking about the always online thing.

I didn't quite get the always on thing. Do you mean like Wii Connect 24, or whatever that was called?

I mean like a PC, cellphone, tablet, or DVR. The ability to run in a low-power state but still maintain communication/functionality. Right now when you turn your 360 off, it's off unless you're background downloading, and even then your 360 isnt actually playable.

As for DD pricing, I'm not sure Skyrim is a good example. Take Sleeping Dogs for example. I think its 49.99 on Games on Demand. It's been as low as 10 dollars on Steam. Steam sales trounce anything we've seen on XBL. The only time Microsoft ever came close was this past Black Friday when they sold pretty much every retail game in their online store for 19.99 or less. If they're going no-used, they'll need much better pricing on XBL, which based on that tweet appears to be in the cards.

 

[Dave Long]

Just wait til they see how many fewer copies they're selling once everyone has nothing left to trade in towards new games. No trade-in preorder campaigns will cut deep. That's when the shit will hit the fan.

 

[Bonton]

 

[ascii42]

I mean like a PC, cellphone, tablet, or DVR. The ability to run in a low-power state but still maintain communication/functionality. Right now when you turn your 360 off, it's off unless you're background downloading, and even then your 360 isnt actually playable.

So yeah, like WiiConnect24 and SpotPass, but probably better, since XBOX Live is more sophisticated.

I get you now. Originally you said "like a PC", which confused me, since my computers are dead to the world in sleep mode.

 

[Baconsammy]

Just wait til they see how many fewer copies they're selling once everyone has nothing left to trade in towards new games. No trade-in preorder campaigns will cut deep. That's when the shit will hit the fan.

Every console on the planet allows for used game sales right now and yet new game sales are dropping. Perhaps a market awash in used product isn't the best thing for new game sales.

So yeah, like WiiConnect24 and SpotPass, but probably better, since XBOX Live is more sophisticated.

I get you now. Originally you said "like a PC", which confused me, since my computers are dead to the world in sleep mode.

Sorry about the confusion. Meant more like when you shut off your monitor and walk away the PC is still running. If your device doesn't consume tons of power just to run, always-on isn't such a bad thing. Mostly what I want from PS4/Xbox is the ability to sleep my system during a game, and then be able to wake it and get right back to where I was later.

 

[Tobor]

Just wait til they see how many fewer copies they're selling once everyone has nothing left to trade in towards new games. No trade-in preorder campaigns will cut deep. That's when the shit will hit the fan.

What if...this is pure speculation...they know that and have decided to take the short term hit for the long term gain.

We know from Ubisoft that an average of 6-7% of game sales are digital. Those customers are already on board with a no used game future. Since anyone with any sense knows that full digital distribution is the endgame here, I think it's possible that these rumored strategies would further push people towards digital. We know they want to get rid of the optical drives and sell content online. MS and Sony are both looking at it, and flirting with it. They have to leave the disc drives in for now, so they're trying this as a temporary compromise.

 

[BruiserBear]

Just wait til they see how many fewer copies they're selling once everyone has nothing left to trade in towards new games. No trade-in preorder campaigns will cut deep. That's when the shit will hit the fan.

It's not as simple as you make it sound. Each used game traded represents those games not being bought new by someone else.


I trade in Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3, and Halo 4. In exchange Gamestop gives me Crysis 3.

In turn that most likely means one less new copy of Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3, and Halo 4 are purchases by someone else.


When you look at it that way, publishers aren't going to be as concerned about your lack of ability to trade in those games for that one new one. They're likely losing out on 3 other new games sales, even if they aren't $60 purchases anymore, they still represent lost sales.

 

[Tex117]

It's not as simple as you make it sound. Each used game traded represents those games not being bought new by someone else.

.

You make a horrible assumtion of the inelasticity of demand for a game at 60 bucks.

Each traded game does not represent 1 new one at full price.

60 bucks is a ton to freakin' spend on games. The purchase of new games at 60 bucks would decrease if an average consumer knew they could not sell it back and re-coup some of that 60 bucks.

 

[I H8 Memes]

A developer at Twisted Pixel (Microsoft 1. party) said the following:



I agree with him. What makes you think Microsoft will continue their old pricing policy?

Nope. Digital distribution pricing will never be used to benefit the customer. Only to increase profits. EA doesn't even have to split their normal 30% with Steam for the games they sell on Origin. Games are still full price. And not just normal PC full price which should be $50. Games are $60 on Origin.

These are publicly traded companies. There will never be a time where they do anything that benefits anyone except for the shareholders.

 

[Grinchy]

It is an interesting theory that killing second-hand sales will kill Gamestop's power over digital pricing on the console marketplaces. I'm not sure if I totally buy it, but it's a reasonable theory.

 

[alstein]

Nope. Digital distribution pricing will never be used to benefit the customer. Only to increase profits. EA doesn't even have to split their normal 30% with Steam for the games they sell on Origin. Games are still full price. And not just normal PC full price which should be $50. Games are $60 on Origin.

These are publicly traded companies. There will never be a time where they do anything that benefits anyone except for the shareholders.

If EA sold their games at a standard discount on Origin, retailers and the other DD sites would balk, and EA would lose money. Origin isn't that big a share of the pie.

A big reason why we get so many sales on Steam is due to a glut of games in the PC market increasing price pressure- there's so much more variety in PC gaming as compared to console, (not to mention all the older games)

As for DD, there is no competition in terms of the platform, but where you buy the things there is still sufficient competition- it's not hard to buy a Steamworks game on Gamersgate, Impulse, or GMG to get a cheaper price- though I do wonder how those companies remain profitable with slimmer margins. GMG in particular I expect to go under.

 

[Baconsammy]

It's not as simple as you make it sound. Each used game traded represents those games not being bought new by someone else.


I trade in Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3, and Halo 4. In exchange Gamestop gives me Crysis 3.

In turn that most likely means one less new copy of Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3, and Halo 4 are purchases by someone else.


When you look at it that way, publishers aren't going to be as concerned about your lack of ability to trade in those games for that one new one. They're likely losing out on 3 other new games sales, even if they aren't $60 purchases anymore, they still represent lost sales.

What if people are trading in used games to buy more used games? Inception!

 

[ascii42]

What if people are trading in used games to buy more used games? Inception!

Well, it can't be used games all the way down.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

The deal with Nintendo is that we've already seen they can turtle up and turn a profit selling "the Mario toy" rather than what we now think of as a games console. Not necessarily sure they would, but the option's on the table and they're one of the few pubs who have mastered selling games that people actually keep so their tonedeafness is even more likely to produce a healthy hibernation through AAA's final shitstorm than Sony's is.

Nintendo can't bank on hitting a mega seller every time. What's the analog to Wii Sports this gen for the Wii U? Haven't seen anything light the console on fire like the Wii.

Most folks who bought the Wii think that the Wii U is a handheld console that ties into it. Some have complained to me that they "just bought their kid a 3DS and now Nintendo has an iPad out?"



ed

Well, it can't be used games all the way down.

I laughed at this way harder than I should have. Thank you.

They're likely losing out on 3 other new games sales, even if they aren't $60 purchases anymore, they still represent lost sales.

One sale of a used product is not a guaranteed sale of a new product if there was no used market.

 

[Mandoric]

Nintendo can't bank on hitting a mega seller every time. What's the analog to Wii Sports this gen for the Wii U? Haven't seen anything light the console on fire like the Wii.

I don't mean a Wii-scale success, I mean something like N64 or Gamecube.

 

[Mr. RHC]

This thread is moving fast! Is always online even a possibility for offline store-retail games?

 

[M3d10n]

Just wait til they see how many fewer copies they're selling once everyone has nothing left to trade in towards new games. No trade-in preorder campaigns will cut deep. That's when the shit will hit the fan.

There are so many other possible "culprits" if it happens to bomb that nobody will even remember the lack of used games.

Nope. Digital distribution pricing will never be used to benefit the customer. Only to increase profits. EA doesn't even have to split their normal 30% with Steam for the games they sell on Origin. Games are still full price. And not just normal PC full price which should be $50. Games are $60 on Origin.

These are publicly traded companies. There will never be a time where they do anything that benefits anyone except for the shareholders.

This. These companies will not make a move that reduces their guaranteed profit in exchange of potential profit by their own volition. They have no guarantees they will sell double the units at half the price just like they have no guarantees the money a consumer got re-selling the game will be invested towards another of their own games. They want, and will try, to have the cake and eat it too.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Personally, I just feel like cutting out used games is a pandora's box that could do more harm than good to the industry.
For example, if used games meant the shuttering of Gamestops they might end up hurting themselves by hurting a valuable business partner.
Or if the lack of a used game market means that people stick with the safer games, new IP's might be harder to cultivate due to less people being willing to take a risk on unknown titles.

 

[Dave Long]

There is no doubt that less Gamestop storefronts will equal less sales of videogames, period.

 

[Eusis]

There is no doubt that less Gamestop storefronts will equal less sales of videogames, period.

Well, you can cut off a safe number I think purely through redundancy via the EB/GameStop merger, but if you seriously put pressure on GameStop and have them closing shops, yeah, I think there's potential ramifications beyond funneling people to department stores.

 

[gundalf]

Will MS this time actually bother with a japan release?

 

[Plinko]

There are so many other possible "culprits" if it happens to bomb that nobody will even remember the lack of used games.

People in the industry, or consumers?

 

[Neuromancer]

Spend more on a gaming PC, and get all the games you can ever play for next to nothing via steam sales, GMG, and humble bundles. Consoles are so archaic.

Yeah... If this comes to pass I may have to go that route.

 

[harSon]

There is no doubt that less Gamestop storefronts will equal less sales of videogames, period.

How?

When one steps foot into a Gamestop, it's undoubtedly with the decision to look at and/or purchase something video game related. If Gamestop is not there, the desire to purchase a video game does not vanish alongside it, simply the means through which it is purchased will change.

Unless of course you're including Used Games, to which I'll answer, the developers/publishers really wouldn't give a shit.

 

[M3d10n]

People in the industry, or consumers?

Industry, of course. They can blame tablets, smartphones, people sticking with current gen, recession and similar stuff before putting the blame on their own decisions.

 

[Xiaoki]

Has anyone considered the impact on sales through rental channels?

Do places like brick and mortar video rental stores and Gamefly count towards sales?

I could go around to all of the video stores in town and find like 50 copies of popular games.

How many people rent a game to "try before they buy" then buy it?

What kind of mindshare do rental places impart to the general populace? If some random person goes into a video store and sees nothing but PS4 titles will he even know if the Xbox 720 is out?

 

[Trogdor1123]

Nope. Digital distribution pricing will never be used to benefit the customer. Only to increase profits. EA doesn't even have to split their normal 30% with Steam for the games they sell on Origin. Games are still full price. And not just normal PC full price which should be $50. Games are $60 on Origin.

These are publicly traded companies. There will never be a time where they do anything that benefits anyone except for the shareholders.

Well maybe, look at the sales that Steam and Origin have. There are lots of them with huge discounts. Origin even gives away lots of games (clearly trying to build a base but free is free). Dont even get me started on services like GMG and what not and how they are able to keep games dirt cheap. DD has made games for cheaper for me on the whole. That being said this is for the PC, im not certain we will see pricing like this on an item that is in a closed system like live or PSN...

We see steeper discounts more often with digital pricing is my expereience.

 

[MaestroKnux]

Is it me or is Microsoft starting to become a lot like Apple now?

 

[Duxxy3]

Industry, of course. They can blame tablets, smartphones, people sticking with current gen, recession and similar stuff before putting the blame on their own decisions.

Publishers and console creators LOVE to blame everything and everyone other than themselves.

 

[legacyzero]

Holy shit @ Moostache

 

[kitch9]

Is it me or is Microsoft starting to become a lot like Apple now?

It's weird, MS haven't said anything and the press are already on their case.

The opposite of last gen already.

 

[Duxxy3]

It's weird, MS haven't said anything and the press are already on their case.

The opposite of last gen already.

Probably because it really doesn't effect them right now. None of the things they are selling right now will sell less because of this rumor.

Sucks for Gamestop though.

 

[Dave Long]

How?

When one steps foot into a Gamestop, it's undoubtedly with the decision to look at and/or purchase something video game related. If Gamestop is not there, the desire to purchase a video game does not vanish alongside it, simply the means through which it is purchased will change.

Unless of course you're including Used Games, to which I'll answer, the developers/publishers really wouldn't give a shit.

Less visibility for videogaming at retail = less consumer awareness of the hobby. For those people who are deathly afraid of an iOS-like world filled with "casual" games, this is one more step toward exactly that on consoles.

Gamestop is a huge vehicle for awareness of new videogames. Without it, gaming becomes even more niche all over again.

 

[kitch9]

Probably because it really doesn't effect them right now. None of the things they are selling right now will sell less because of this rumor.

Sucks for Gamestop though.

I dunno, I'm rethinking my plans already... 35 years on this planet and I've learned there's never smoke without fire.