The Friendly Monster
Member
I don't think it's fair. There is a party who has very clearly been wronged here. An actual victim, a dead woman and her loved ones. And there is a responsible party, a man who shot her.
Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend - dead
- Thread starter CrunchinJelly
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in dubio pro reo.
The Friendly Monster
Member
He shot a woman in the head/chest. She died.
BertramCooper
Banned
I don't presume to be familiar with South Africa, but that sounds pretty damn excessive for a self-defense argument.
We're talking four shots that actually hit her. I'm interested to know how many total shots he fired.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
There is no pity if it's proven that it was a household dispute. However. these "stories" also suggest that his girlfriend surprised him and he was not expecting her to show. Stories also suggest that he was pretty paranoid about people breaking into his home and being one of the most popular athletes, you're bound to attract hooligans especially in a crime-infested city/country.
The reason I asked if he was sarcastic is because his reasoning that he should get no pity because he killed a woman? What kinda sexist remark is this? Anyone killing anyone should not be taken lightly; being a woman doesn't change anything.
It's called "innocent until proven guilty". Don't like it? Tough luck.
Yep. Here he goes again. I'll ask again: Sarcasm?
Anyways, I'm done with this thread. I'll let the police make a decision. He is charged with murder and I'm glad he is cause that's what he did, regardless of who he killed. Is he guilty? We'll find out soon.
Do you posit that any person who inadvertently causes the death of another deserves no empathy no matter the circumstances?
The Friendly Monster
Member
I take it "make sure the person you are shooting is dead before you can ascertain their identity or motive" is just one of the "basic rules of any big city" now?
Owns pitbulls too, which is suspect
I just dont see the point of trying to explain the situation as mistaken identity. If you shoot first and ask questions later you deserve to be punished and are not fit to be living in society. Prison is where he belongs unless she was charging at him with a weapon, which is doubtful.
captainnapalm
Member
This is starting to look more and more like murder. Reports coming out now that suggest the police have been called to his house because of domestic issues before. Also, it turns out he's a gun nut, and a paranoid one at that, who slept with a pistol under his pillow and a machine gun next to his bed. SA has fairly high levels of crime, but he lived in a ridiculously secure and quiet complex and it's clear his paranoia and gun obsession was out of control.
Even a bizarre story that he owned two tigers but he had to let them go when they grew too big.
As a South African, this story is totally shocking. I'm struggling to wrap my head around it. Appears he may just have been a fatally flawed character with deep seated issues.
Even a bizarre story that he owned two tigers but he had to let them go when they grew too big.
As a South African, this story is totally shocking. I'm struggling to wrap my head around it. Appears he may just have been a fatally flawed character with deep seated issues.
If we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was woken from sleep at 4am and thought he was about to be attacked, I wouldn't expect anything LESS than him emptying the clip.
Now I'm not saying he should or shouldn't have had a gun etc but to my mind, the number of shots he fired doesn't alter the plausibility of his explanation.
God I feel sick thinking about it.
The Friendly Monster
Member
So what? She was no danger to him.
I made no such connection. How do you know I'm male?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
From what I understand the rate of crime in South Africa is enormous and he could be considered quite a big target. I can easily imagine he panicked and shot at a target he could barely see hidden in the shadows.
Psychotext
Member
It's strange, but if someone comes into my room at 4am my first assumption is that it's my girlfriend. How shitty an area do you need to live in to have that first assumption to be a burgler / kidnapper / murderer / rapist? Ignoring the fact they'd have had to have been able to get past his alarm system (and if you're living in a shitty area with money, you've gone one, no question).
What happens if one of you goes to the toilet in the night or comes in after being at a club? Does that also end up with a gun being drawn just in case?
What happens if one of you goes to the toilet in the night or comes in after being at a club? Does that also end up with a gun being drawn just in case?
Indeed. Not to mention the police say the intruder story didn't come from their end, sounds like something his PR people must have put out.
There is only a question between murder and manslaughter isn't it? It might take a while to prove either way, but i guess that won't be fast enough for people in this day and age.
2 things;
1. I'm not defending Pistorious here, I'm just floating potential mitigating circumstances.
2. This horrific incident doesn't really alter the fact that Johannesburg can be navigated perfectly safely from a tourist perspective and it's silly of you to conflate my posts.
Kinky John
Member
Have they commented further on the previous domestic incidents? Who called the police on those occasions?
I don't know if this video of a mini press conference has been posted yet: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vid...istorius-charged-murder-reeva-steenkamp-video
- Police will be opposing bail. Reasons for the opposition will be revealed in court this afternoon.
- Can confirm police have attended domestic incidents at the residence previously.
- Police will be opposing bail. Reasons for the opposition will be revealed in court this afternoon.
- Can confirm police have attended domestic incidents at the residence previously.
Ravensmash
Member
And it could be a very tragic accident.
Stop trying to be judge, jury, executioner in a case where we have very little information.
Big-E said:
This would depend entirely on the individual circumstances, no? It's oh so easy to say that when you're staring at basic information, not so easy when you feel that you're in a life or death situation.
If someone was in your house at 4am and woke you up (and you lived in an area where crime is rife) would you be so calm?
Of course I'm basing this on hypotheticals because we know very little at this stage.
Diprosalic
Banned
i can't come up with a reasonable scenario in which you shoot your girlfriend because you mistaken her for a burglar. she came in and he just shot her multiple times without looking?
the only thing i can come up with if she came in disguised as a burgler and why would she do that?
pretty much this.
the only thing i can come up with if she came in disguised as a burgler and why would she do that?
pretty much this.
Ravensmash
Member
He heard a loud noise, and maybe the couple had not made plans to see each other (maybe she stated that she was away in an attempt to surprise him like the tweets suggest), maybe he had no reason to believe it could be her?
Diprosalic
Banned
and then he blindly fired the gun 3 times?
The Friendly Monster
Member
I am not Judge Judy and executioner.
Well I wouldn't live in an area where I felt my life was threatened. I wouldn't arm myself with a lethal weapon if I did. Not really about me though.
It's ok to be scared, it's natural to be scared sometimes. It is not a reasonable response to shoot and kill someone. That is demonstrably true.
Ravensmash
Member
Well, he does live in a country where crime is rife, and arming yourself with a lethal weapon in such a country is the norm apparently.
Why is it not a reasonable response to act in self defence if you feel your life is in danger? Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-gun and if he intentionally did this then I'd happily call him scum.
Ravensmash
Member
Maybe. We'll have to wait for the court appearances.
4am, disorientated and scared with no reason to suspect it would be anyone he knows in his property at that time.
Or maybe he just shot her. Who knows?
She was shot four times in the head and chest and he wasn't even the one who alerted emergency services, there is no way this was a case of mistaken identity
e: four times pretty much guarantees he shot her again while she was on the ground, bleeding to death or dead
e2: some sources indicate she was shot in hand and head, that would make it a bit less clear based on just the shots
e: four times pretty much guarantees he shot her again while she was on the ground, bleeding to death or dead
e2: some sources indicate she was shot in hand and head, that would make it a bit less clear based on just the shots
The Friendly Monster
Member
I know nothing of life in South Africa save for some Louis Theroux documentaries, but he doesn't have to live there.
Because you can be wrong and end up killing your girlfriend.
edit: I never said he was scum, I said he was a nutcase and isn't exactly deserving of sympathy.
aparisi2274
Member
My question is this:
She sneaks in, he has a gun ready... Does he not say "Stop or I'll shoot" or something that announces his intentions? If he did, and she yelled out, she might still be here...
She sneaks in, he has a gun ready... Does he not say "Stop or I'll shoot" or something that announces his intentions? If he did, and she yelled out, she might still be here...
Psychotext
Member
I'd better have far more than a "feeling" that my life was in danger. Hell, if a feeling was enough I'd shoot half the people on my walk home from a night out.
I would genuinely love to know if he had an alarm system in his home though. If he was paranoid like he must have been to randomly shoot someone in the dark, then I'm guessing he must have.
Ravensmash
Member
What more of a feeling do you need than someone unexpected in your home at 4am?
I can guarantee you that I (or you) wouldn't be calm at 4am if you heard someone rustling around or entering your property.
I never get the shoot first ask questions later mentality.
There was a thread of a similar story in Florida a man shot his fiance he was going to marry the next day. They live in the same house he wakes up she is not in her bed, he hear noises and the first thing he does is assume its a burglar and get his gun and shoots the first sign of person he sees.
Even if you think its reasonable to assume a burglar is in your home I still think you should confirm its a burglar first and not a person you know.
There was a thread of a similar story in Florida a man shot his fiance he was going to marry the next day. They live in the same house he wakes up she is not in her bed, he hear noises and the first thing he does is assume its a burglar and get his gun and shoots the first sign of person he sees.
Even if you think its reasonable to assume a burglar is in your home I still think you should confirm its a burglar first and not a person you know.
Psychotext
Member
I've had my girlfriend come over to my place a number of times when I wasn't expecting her. If you can get into my house without smashing anything and get past my alarm system then you're either someone I've given the keys and the code to, or the likelihood is that you're that good you'd have killed me in my sleep anyway.
Fact is, even if I was scared and had a gun, I'd have turned the fucking light on to:
A: Hopefully scare them off.
B: Actually see what I'm shooting at.
I see the Support for Oscar Pistorius Facebook is already up.
https://www.facebook.com/SupportBladeRunner?ref=ts&fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/SupportBladeRunner?ref=ts&fref=ts
captainnapalm
Member
Hmm...
Sammy is Oscar's ex-girlfriend.
Sammy is Oscar's ex-girlfriend.
Wow, this is fucked up. I don't know anything about Pistorius, but I hope he didn't murder his girlfriend. Not that it makes it any less sad. RIP.
I don't even know what this means.
ezekielpacman
Member
I think it means he has previous with regard to waving guns around willy nilly.
The Friendly Monster
Member
You need to know...otherwise you end up shooting your girlfriend in the head and chest 4 times (not that this is what it actually looks like in the end).
Exactly. Just maybe you are not as important as you think you are and an unidentified person doesn't 100 percent mean that they are there to kill you. People who are super paranoid about their property are fucking scary. My dad has a friend who moved to Texas and got into the whole gun culture thing. Carries a concealed weapon and the like. One time he told my dad that he head a noise on his porch and he almost shot the person on the porch who was a fucking police officer. This notion that stranger at night = imminent death for my family is fucked up.
Sniper McBlaze
Member
I guess he found out she was a replicant.
I wonder if she is the other witness.
Spinning Plates
Member
The real tragedy is that if Oscar Pistorius had no arms, this would never have happened.
Sniper McBlaze
Member
He would also be Bladewanker instead of the icon he is today.
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