Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 1 - Sundays on AMC

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The Armorix "Walt is evil" debate: I don't think Walt is evil at all. He started off thinking he was going to die and did what he did for his family. That isn't the case anymore as he made dumb decisions and his pride gets in the way too often, leading to more trouble. However a lot of the bad he does was caused by Jesses dumb decisions too and Walt reacting to protect Jesse. I guess I'm in the middle of this debate... Walt is a "bad guy" but in this case I'm cheering for the bad guy and I hope he comes out clean in the end (probably won't happen though).
A lot of the dumb stuff Jesse does is only because he's disillusioned and treats Walt as a trustworthy father figure, though. Not that it excuses his actions, but considering Walt started all of this he has to take a good chunk of the responsibility for everything that follows.

The Walt murder count debate: I don't think Walt killed Jane at all like some do. He also didn't set off the bomb to kill Gus although he would have if he had to do it. In the end he killed the 2 guys in season 1 out of self defense, the 2 dealers to save Jesse, and the 2 thugs in season 4 in the lab. I could be missing some but Jane, Gus, Tio, and Tyrus aren't on his kill list. Jesse has gotten off realtively easy since he just shot Gale and the guy in Mexico.
Gus and Tio are definitely on the kill list. Like...how would they not be. Walt blew up a bomb strategically while both were around to kill them. It does not get any more clear cut than that. You say he "didn't set off the bomb." He did! He waited until Tio was ringing the bell like mad in front of Gus, flipped a switch, and blew them to hell! That was literally the sequence of actions! You have no argument, zero.
Walt didn't directly kill Tyrus. He's partially responsible for his death. His pride about being in control of the operation led to him forcing Jesse to kill Gale which led to Tyrus being exposed to the public which led to Gus killing Tyrus as an example and to keep the operation safe. Walt is partially responsible for Tyrus' death. This is also pretty inarguable.
As for Jane: I won't say that that one's inarguable, though I think it's pretty clear that he again shares some responsibility. You don't blame a junkie for being a junkie. Addiction is a disease. That doesn't mean it's fully malicious, but it was rash and selfish and short-sighted and cowardly. Those aspects of it, at least, are pretty impossible to deny. It's not brave or strong to let a mentally diseased person die in their sleep while you stand over their body.
 
Gus and Tio are definitely on the kill list. Like...how would they not be. Walt blew up a bomb strategically while both were around to kill them. It does not get any more clear cut than that. You say he "didn't set off the bomb." He did! He waited until Tio was ringing the bell like mad in front of Gus, flipped a switch, and blew them to hell! That was literally the sequence of actions! You have no argument, zero.
I agree with what you're trying to say here regarding Walt's responsibility for Gus' demise, but just to clarify one thing in a technical sense - Tio set off the bomb since it was rigged to his bell.
Walt didn't directly kill Tyrus. He's partially responsible for his death. His pride about being in control of the operation led to him forcing Jesse to kill Gale which led to Tyrus being exposed to the public which led to Gus killing Tyrus as an example and to keep the operation safe. Walt is partially responsible for Tyrus' death. This is also pretty inarguable.
Tyrus was killed in the pipe bomb explosion with Gus and Tio. You're talking about Victor.

EDIT:
How long is Mad Men going to go on for? Have they stated when they want to end it?
It's going to be seven seasons total. The Season 5 thread is here in case people want to rank the seasons, discuss spoilers, etc...
 
I agree with what you're trying to say here regarding Walt's responsibility for Gus' demise, but just to clarify one thing in a technical sense - Tio set off the bomb since it was rigged to his bell.
Tyrus was killed in the pipe bomb explosion with Gus and Tio. You're talking about Victor.
You're right you're right it's been a long time since I watched season 4. Still– all three of those are Walt's kills. Tyrus and Gus at the very least, I guess you could argue Tio made his choice. As if Walt gave him one.
 
Just posting in this thread without reading anything as I just finished watching Seasons 1 to 4 on Netflix the past two months. Now to find a way to watch Season 5 as it isn't on Netflix yet. I loved the way Season 4 ended and would have been totally happy if that was the series finale.

I was reading through the old threads as I watched each season (wasn't hard to read the season 1 and 2 threads :lol). Here are my takes on a couple of the big debates discussed:

The Skylar debate: Yes, Skylar is a bitch and I hated her character for most of season 2 and 3. Her story did get more interesting the last half of season 3 and in season 4, so I don't mind her now.

The Armorix "Walt is evil" debate: I don't think Walt is evil at all. He started off thinking he was going to die and did what he did for his family. That isn't the case anymore as he made dumb decisions and his pride gets in the way too often, leading to more trouble. However a lot of the bad he does was caused by Jesses dumb decisions too and Walt reacting to protect Jesse. I guess I'm in the middle of this debate... Walt is a "bad guy" but in this case I'm cheering for the bad guy and I hope he comes out clean in the end (probably won't happen though).

The Walt murder count debate: I don't think Walt killed Jane at all like some do. He also didn't set off the bomb to kill Gus although he would have if he had to do it. In the end he killed the 2 guys in season 1 out of self defense, the 2 dealers to save Jesse, and the 2 thugs in season 4 in the lab. I could be missing some but Jane, Gus, Tio, and Tyrus aren't on his kill list. Jesse has gotten off realtively easy since he just shot Gale and the guy in Mexico.

My favorite character is Jesse I think, but I don't root for him to make it through in the end.

As I said, this is all based on the first 4 seasons so I'll join in on any debates in a couple of weeks when I'm all caught up. Until then, I'm out... bitches!

You forgot to mention the most important one.

'The Fly episode debate - I agree with the sane people. It really is one of the best episodes!'
 
You forgot to mention the most important one.

'The Fly episode debate - I agree with the sane people. It really is one of the best episodes!'

He spent his whole post agreeing that Skyler is a "bitch", that Walt killed like two people maybe, and that he's misunderstood.

Why would you think he'd come down on the right side of that one?
 
You forgot to mention the most important one.

'The Fly episode debate - I agree with the sane people. It really is one of the best episodes!'

He spent his whole post agreeing that Skyler is a "bitch", that Walt killed like two people maybe, and that he's misunderstood.

Why would you think he'd come down on the right side of that one?

Porthos is making me want to get into the same debates I've had way too many times in this thread...

I decided to come back in to this thread anyways, ignoring the season 5 spoiler risk.

Anyways, as for the Fly episode debate: I liked that one. Not the greatest BB episode, but still one of the good ones. Also loved the one the season before where the RV breaks down which I found very similar to the fly one.

I never said Walt was misunderstood so way to skew my words, but yeah, Skylar is a bitch. Sorry for bringing up the same old debates... didn't want to start them again but I just never got to weigh in with my thoughts as I read through the old threads. Ok, now I'm out until I'm caught up! :)
 
^Don't get me wrong. I enjoy having those same debates over and over again lol

Definitely come back when you're caught up and let us know what you think about the Walt/Jesse "accidental" kiss in season 5.

edit- i keep trying to spoiler that but my [ and ] keys are broken.
 
^Don't get me wrong. I enjoy having those same debates over and over again lol

Definitely come back when you're caught up and let us know what you think about the
Walt/Jesse "accidental" kiss in season 5.
Dude wtf is wrong with you spoiler tag that shit
 
Re: A character supposedly involved in S5 Part 2
Is Carol the neighbor who Walt uses to go "check on the stove" near the end of Season 4?
I guess not. Gilligan's interview w/ EW: "Well, the neighbor in last season’s finale — who Walter sends in to “check on his stove,” who he’s basically willing to sacrifice — was named Becky Simmons, after a friend of my girlfriend. And she was played by my mom."
 
Just finished the show up to 5.08. After saying for the first three and a half seasons that it was really entertaining but not top tier, the last season and a half has been fucking absolutely dynamite. Episodes 5.05-5.08 is the best consistent run the shows had.

What I think is fantastic is that in the first two seasons, you could almost feel the show trying to be different; Walt running around in his pants about to shoot himself is meant to be this wacky madcap way to introduce the show, the teddy bear motif is meant to be this intriguing thing (that never really worked for me personally).

But as the show evolved, it stopped trying to be something and just became something, rather effortlessly. It's so visually and aurally magnetic, so well written and acted that you just believe that the sad fuck running around half naked in the first episode is the utter monster who does what he does in 5.08.

It's pretty much one of the best television dramas I've ever seen, third for me (behind Deadwood and The Wire respectively). Can't wait for the rest.
 
Just finished the show up to 5.08. After saying for the first three and a half seasons that it was really entertaining but not top tier, the last season and a half has been fucking absolutely dynamite. Episodes 5.05-5.08 is the best consistent run the shows had.

What I think is fantastic is that in the first two seasons, you could almost feel the show trying to be different; Walt running around in his pants about to shoot himself is meant to be this wacky madcap way to introduce the show, the teddy bear motif is meant to be this intriguing thing (that never really worked for me personally).

But as the show evolved, it stopped trying to be something and just became something, rather effortlessly. It's so visually and aurally magnetic, so well written and acted that you just believe that the sad fuck running around half naked in the first episode is the utter monster who does what he does in 5.08.

It's pretty much one of the best television dramas I've ever seen, third for me (behind Deadwood and The Wire respectively). Can't wait for the rest.

Yeah, I heard the same from a few friends who I told to watch the show. First 2 seasons entertaining, end of S3 they are like '... Yeah okay, I should have listened to you earlier' and by the end of S4 they are all in love with it. And now they are all waiting with me and asking me plenty of times when it is coming back.

I think it is in line of how I experienced the show myself as well but I thought it was amazing at the end of S2 already. Probably because I watched it the moment it aired. Different experience than rushing through them at your own pace I suppose.

I really can't think of any show that made me go nuts like ep9/ep10/ep11 of S4 did. Those were all fantastic. S5 ending eps are some of the best as well as you mentioned.
 
Sheeeeeiiiiiiit.

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EDIT:

Heh. BrBa reference in Far Cry 3?
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Yeah, I heard the same from a few friends who I told to watch the show. First 2 seasons entertaining, end of S3 they are like '... Yeah okay, I should have listened to you earlier' and by the end of S4 they are all in love with it. And now they are all waiting with me and asking me plenty of times when it is coming back.

I think it is in line of how I experienced the show myself as well but I thought it was amazing at the end of S2 already. Probably because I watched it the moment it aired. Different experience than rushing through them at your own pace I suppose.

I really can't think of any show that made me go nuts like ep9/ep10/ep11 of S4 did. Those were all fantastic. S5 ending eps are some of the best as well as you mentioned.

I pretty much was in love with it from the first episode, I couldn't believe how much crazy shit was being thrown at the characters and I immediately wanted to know how they'd get out of it. Though prior to this, Dexter and 24 had been the main shows I liked, so it was a rather shocking increase in quality to witness.

Crawl Space contains THE best moments I've ever spent in front of a screen. I literally was running laps around the living room after that, lol.
 
dean norris ‏@deanjnorris
My new gig. UNDER THE DOME. thank you Steven Spielberg, Stephen King and CBS. I will try my best to not fuck up your project. #watchit
 
dean norris ‏@deanjnorris
My new gig. UNDER THE DOME. thank you Steven Spielberg, Stephen King and CBS. I will try my best to not fuck up your project. #watchit

Hah, ironic that he would go from Breaking Bad to Under the Dome since they both (minor Under the Dome spoilers)
have meth making/distribution as a major plot point
. Wonder who he'll play?
 
Details on his role here.
"Norris will play politician and car dealership owner James “Big Jim” Rennie, who seizes an opportunity to take control of his small town Chester’s Mill when it’s sealed off from the rest of the world by a mysterious transparent force field. "

Perfect! From DEA agent busting meth labs to
corrupt politician running meth labs. I think he'll do a great job as Rennie.
 
Good to see so many from the cast get future project lined up. Even Badger!

I'm most worried about Aaron Paul. He is so much better than a movie based on the video game Need for Speed. He needs to be doing Ben Foster type roles. Maybe bulk up a little, get lucky and maybe Jake Gyllenhaal type roles.

Not freaking Need for Speed. Video game movies are always trash. Will kill his movie career before it starts.
 
I'm most worried about Aaron Paul. He is so much better than a movie based on the video game Need for Speed. He needs to be doing Ben Foster type roles. Maybe bulk up a little, get lucky and maybe Jake Gyllenhaal type roles.

Not freaking Need for Speed. Video game movies are always trash. Will kill his movie career before it starts.

Ben Foster type roles didn't do too good for Ben Foster
 
Has there been a trio of episodes in any show better then Negro Y Azul, Better Call Saul and 4 days out? They all aired one week after the other, it really is incredible.

Edit Season 2.
 
Has there been a trio of episodes better then Negro Y Azul, Better Call Saul and 4 days out? They all aired one week after the other, it really is incredible.

Is that series two? On rewatch I'm not a big fan of it to be honest. The plane crash was stupid, the motif was too in your face. Individual episodes were good, the ones you noted especially, but as an entire season it's definitely the weakest.

I think the last 3 or 4 of season 4 and the last 4 of season 5 are better runs
 
Is that series two? On rewatch I'm not a big fan of it to be honest. The plane crash was stupid, the motif was too in your face. Individual episodes were good, the ones you noted especially, but as an entire season it's definitely the weakest.

I think the last 3 or 4 of season 4 and the last 4 of season 5 are better runs

5.1 is a worse season than 2, by far.
 
Is that series two? On rewatch I'm not a big fan of it to be honest. The plane crash was stupid, the motif was too in your face. Individual episodes were good, the ones you noted especially, but as an entire season it's definitely the weakest.

I think the last 3 or 4 of season 4 and the last 4 of season 5 are better runs

I can see your point. S2 was when the show was less Hollywood IMO. Later seasons definatly became more action focused and more of an excellent blockbuster then grounded drama. I suppose it depends on what focus you prefer.
 
I can see your point. S2 was when the show was less Hollywood IMO. Later seasons definatly became more action focused and more of an excellent blockbuster then grounded drama. I suppose it depends on what focus you prefer.

Season 2 is definitely my least favorite. I think it has to do mostly with the plane crash seeming very arbitrary/deus ex machina. The fact that it was teased for the entire season made it all the more lackluster when it happened. By comparison, the endings of 3 and 4 were more directly related to the characters, more surprising as they were not teased all season, and were effing badass.
 
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