Compare Doom and Portal.
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Live Killzone: Shadow Fall demo with Jimmy Fallon tomorrow
- Thread starter shinobi602
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Compare Doom and Portal.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
You think portal is a fps?
Yes you shoot portals! Ok maybe a better example would be doom vs Condemned.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Yes? You shoot portals, in first-person.
test_account
XP-39C²
You dont really shoot anything in Portal though. Its more of a puzzle game in first person. But if we count Portal 1 and 2 as a FPS, are those the only two games that sticks on in the FPS genre? Then i'm thinking about the gameplay. I see you mention Condemned, but isnt that basically a "standard" FPS where you use more melee attacks instead of guns?
Dark Octave
Banned
Not saying it's a bad thing but Zelda and Mario says he's right.
The stupid comment was the one that he was responding to. It's Killzone, what are you expecting?
Kenshin001
Member
No I don't think they'd hire you. They may take it on board though. I was just curious what you had in mind when you made the criticism but it seems you didn't have anything specific in mind.
Ah that makes sense... oh. Wait. No it doesn't.
test_account said:
There's big variation even in FPS games in how you shoot, traverse, solve puzzles etc. If you are saying that all games where you play from 1st person view and shoot at things are the same, then I can't help you.
I already did gave you some examples. The AI looked dumb, the hit reactions exactly the same as before, the level had nothing interesting as terms of traversing going on...
And smash bros, and mario kart, and luigi's mansion, and animal crossing, etc etc
It's up to the person to decide if that's a bad thing I guess. But we should at least be fair and admit that it's not just shooters doing this.
The Nature Roy
Member
Still looks like R1/L1 are being used as the primary buttons for aiming and firing weapons however.
EDIT: Hela beat me to it while I was working through the thread. If that's widespread, the new triggers don't really mean all that much in most cases.
So OoT and WW weren't any different? SM64 did not bring something new to the table? SMG? I hate to take this to off-topic, but your trolling is too strong for me!
test_account
XP-39C²
No, i'm wondering what people expect of radical changes in the gameplay of a FPS to make it feel very differently. Surely there are much variations in the FPS games indeed, i'm not saying anything against that
But "Next-gen" would imply that there are some very noticeable changes, at least that is how i read it. FPS contains 95% of moving, aiming and shooting (this is what i ment with it being the same since the early 90s), how do one apply drastic changes to this without removing it too much from being a FPS?I remember playing for example Hexen for PC back in the mid 90s. This was a FPS game that were also based around melee combat. Or another more recent example is Singularity, a FPS where you can alter time. These are cool ideas for sure, but personally i never felt that these games were "next-gen" FPS in terms of gameplay.
Maybe i read it wrong, but when people ask for new gameplay, i read it more as being something completely new and fresh, and i'm wondering what they want to see regarding changes. To take a specific example with Killzone, what would people like to see to make it next-gen gameplay?
Most of their formulas that they rehashed for years started on N64. I'm not joking when the first thing I said when I played galaxy was "holy shit this feels exactly like mario 64" because they kept his entire move set from that game, not to mention the overall formula as well.
Before this strays too far off topic, the point was just be fair and don't limit that criticism to just the FPS genre.
Also being fair and not coming up with hyperbolic bullshit examples of games that were celebrated as innovative both by gamers and critics :b
Kenshin001
Member
You gave examples of stuff that has already been done. You didn't give a single example of the radical gameplay evolution you expected with a new platform, which was your original criticism. I just asked what would you like to see and it seems the answer is a vague better AI and Mirror Edge's traversal, I guess.
For example, I would have liked one of your allies to start firing wildly accidentally killing civilians, or a Helghast using one of them as human shield. Something like that.
Dark Octave
Banned
CyclopsRock
Member
I think part of the problem is that amazing gameplay ideas are quickly subsumed into the conscience of what is 'standard' because they quickly become standard. There are a lot of gameplay conceits that simply didn't exist last generation, but I think a lot of people don't necessarily appreciate it like that. The same will happen going forwards, too. People will change, and they won't even realise they've changed because as soon as they do, they'll become the new normal.
test_account
XP-39C²
I have to admit that it would be cool to see some Mirror Edge gameplay in Killzone, or any other FPS games for that matter Not necessarily for the whole game, but maybe for one level or so. Even if has been done before in Mirrors Edge, i'd still like to see how it will look in other games.
Not necessarily for the whole game, but maybe for one level or so. Even if has been done before in Mirrors Edge, i'd still like to see how it will look in other games.So the few new gameplay mechanics we can glean from this demo are:
More vertical gameplay. Added a Crysis-esque climb up/over obstacles when traversing the environment.
Added a Far Cry 3-esque assassination mechanic. The player can now jump down onto enemies and assassinate them.
Added a Fear-like slo-mo mechanic where the player can slow down time.
Added the ability to customize/modify traditional weapons into something else, like an assault rifle into a Sniper rifle.
The lean n peak cover system is intact.
I do not like the new look of the Helghan. They don't appear as heavy/weighty as they did in Killzone 2.
More vertical gameplay. Added a Crysis-esque climb up/over obstacles when traversing the environment.
Added a Far Cry 3-esque assassination mechanic. The player can now jump down onto enemies and assassinate them.
Added a Fear-like slo-mo mechanic where the player can slow down time.
Added the ability to customize/modify traditional weapons into something else, like an assault rifle into a Sniper rifle.
The lean n peak cover system is intact.
I do not like the new look of the Helghan. They don't appear as heavy/weighty as they did in Killzone 2.
Here's a counter argument: Mario & Zelda games have evolved in the last 18 years. Happy?
CaptainTiptop
Member
Hopefully there are different controller layout settings oooorrrrr we finally get fully remappable layouts. plz sony
It's hilarious to me that the comment section on this video has a bunch of people saying it's fake. Jimmy couldn't play for shit; as if they'd 'fake' piss poor gameplay to try to trick people.
test_account
XP-39C²
Good points, there are serveral of changes over Killzone 3 in terms of gameplay mechanics.
I wonder if that is a new type of Helghast, maybe a new type of Infiltrator.
That is true, but Killzone has also evolved over time though.
Dark Octave
Banned
Thanks for providing...something.
Looking forward to the next Mario Kart on WiiU. I'm expecting a new radical approach from it.
Becasue y'know, we wouldn't want current gen gameplay on a next gen system and all.
RyanardoDaVinci
Member
Maybe he plays with the Y-Axis inverted and the demo was standard?
Doesn't excuse that, really. Both of them were rubbish to the point you'd swear they have never actually picked up a controller.
It basically destroys his whole bit in the sense that he's acting excited despite the fact that it's clear he doesn't actually know how to play anything.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
To everyone "worried" about firing still being on R1, don't. I'm sure they set that up to the default control simply because that's what PlayStation owners are used to at the moment, but even Killzone 2 had the option to switch it to R2 so I don't see why this will be any different.
Reminds me of F.E.A.R. 2!
If that's silly to say, then it's silly to say the opposite as well. What exactly is mindblowing about that particular demo besides visuals?
Man, that's quite bitter - you shouldn't get so emotionally involved when defending an average clip :lol
I commented on the clip I saw. It has good visuals, but boring gameplay. Neither do you nor I know how this is going to end up, but so far I see nothing special here gameplay wise. Stab an enemy when he's right in front of you and throwing a knife? The screen turning into the packshot of FUSE when being hit? There is a lot to improve in shooters, A.I., interaction with the environment etc. are just a few things to name - GG is a capable studio and I'm certain that they will surprise me with some stuff, but what I'VE SEEN FROM THIS DEMO didn't do anything for me
Yeah but this doesn't make the gameplay less bland
It's surprising that the person on GAF most known for criticizing today's gaming world with all its disgusting casual anomalies and dumbed-down gameplay mechanics is blind when it comes to this clip :lol
And so you are claiming that Nintendo's games haven't evolved in the past 18 years? No, I think too much of you as a poster to really believe that you were serious with that post
Not as boring as in the clip? What exactly are you guys defending here? That shown clip is nothing but a sneak peak at those visuals that are coming which is why I said that the seen gameplay is boring - I mean we won't even see most of the stuff in the final game probably, so what's the big fuss about? Those visuals looked good, but that's it; I play tons of FPS games and that looked boring even when compared to BLOPS2
Seem to hit a nerve here :lol
Facism
Member
or natural selection 1/2 to everything since.
Probably playing it up to be funny.
Lambda Pie
Banned
if Killzone was 18 years old it would've started as a top down shooter Gunsmoke style, then a Contra clone, then a 3D mixed with sprites Doom-style FPS and finally into what we have now.
Boss Man
Member
Watching the HD video I realized there are going to be some sort of 'powers' mapped to the d-pad. I don't know if these belong to the weapons or the character, but that could be cool. The one in the demo was being used to slow time. I'd like blinking to make it in somehow, there's a legit FPS innovation for you.
Byakuya769
Member
How exactly has Zelda innovated past Ocarina of Time?
Always-honest
Banned
Nothing, just the visuals thus far. Gameplay was too little to really comment on.
And my guess is that it will resemble the gameplay of previous Killzone games a lot.
But i hope for some new stuff, like you.
I didn't say the opposite. I wisely just comment on what can realisticly be commented on.
You just shout some stuff for reactions.
If that was your goal, well done but a bit easy. Saying stupid stuff will get reactions.
don't act like you struck a nerve with some Killzone fans. You struck a nerve by saying ridiculous stuff.
if you have a problem with Killzone as a FPS , don't play it. Very, very simple. I don't play games i don't like either.
I don't like the bullet time slo mo. I guess these new "future" soldiers have some augmented abilities in one way or another. I noticed that one of the Higs had some kind of defense shield protecting him. That is new to Killzone (kind of Halo ish). The new knife throw is a neat touch. I was not expecting the story to jump this far ahead in time. The aeshetic is quite a departure from the dark and bleak Killzone universe we are used to.
Labombadog
Member
Wow they are totally trying to push this out there. This is good Sony. Keep at it.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if the "disguise" and "cloak" abilities from the multiplayer make it to the single player. Also there appears to be a new force field type move, look at the Helghast that the player throws the knife at.
Cross post:
Then, after someone suggested I watch the reveal demo, I did so:
*shrug*
Then, after someone suggested I watch the reveal demo, I did so:
Yeah, that was a much better demo, for sure. But still, the game just doesn't look like much fun, except for the bit at the end. I would play it if most of it were similar to that.
*shrug*
Raven77
Member
- We have no idea what this game is doing with physics and real time deformation of the terrain.
God only knows what new emergent game play could be in here that we haven't seen yet.
Thread has devolved into a bicker fest about the FPS genre, etc. all based on a few seconds of footage...
God only knows what new emergent game play could be in here that we haven't seen yet.
Thread has devolved into a bicker fest about the FPS genre, etc. all based on a few seconds of footage...
Boss Man
Member
I love the new scenery. On the gameplay elements, I think there might end up being a lot more to this than all of the accusations of it being generic can know right now. I personally like the 'augmented' soldiers thing because that adds a ton to gameplay.
Killzone threads are always controversial
You are completely wrong with this. 100 percent wrong.
No punching in galaxy.
No spin move in 64
No gravity effects in 64
Completely different mid-air adjustments in Galaxy
And that doesn't even get into the radical changes in level design.
This will be the last of this off-topic: The 3D Mario games are the most inventive in the genre. Not only did SM64 pretty much set up the genre, Galaxy games felt truly something new with the gravity mechanics. But yeah you can always look at Mario Kart and say that Nintendo has stayed the same these past two decades lol.
Why would we restrict ourselves this way? Old ideas are often best if you just take them to new genres/scenarios and combine them with something new. Killzone 2 tried to bring "weight" to the genre. I don't know why they changed this, but physics based animations could immensly add to this idea. Maybe the enemy armor could be dynamically destructible too. I remember when MGS4 was revealed and the gekkos were searching for Snake. I was blown away by this. In the end product they were nothing like it though and the game was a lot smaller in scale than I thought. I would love bigger arenas with some sort of mechs patrolling and rummaging through walls and shit :b
Oppo
Member
I didn't know Shadowfall would be a launch game!
Herman made it sound very much like the game would be out with the machine itself. That's great news.
Sorry Resistance.
I will always have a soft spot for Killzone as one of my only go-to FPSs because of two things: the industrial design is spectacular, and it has a cover system, something weirdly lacking in first person shooting games. It's hard to imagine a firefight without cover and KZ seems to be one of the only games to get this aspect right. I hate strafe-dodging behind shipping containers and such in things like CoD, feels retrograde.
Herman made it sound very much like the game would be out with the machine itself. That's great news.
Sorry Resistance.
I will always have a soft spot for Killzone as one of my only go-to FPSs because of two things: the industrial design is spectacular, and it has a cover system, something weirdly lacking in first person shooting games. It's hard to imagine a firefight without cover and KZ seems to be one of the only games to get this aspect right. I hate strafe-dodging behind shipping containers and such in things like CoD, feels retrograde.
Raven77
Member
Although I agree with you, I think Derrick missed the point. The fact that Galaxy WAS so radically different, while at the same time invoking that "wow this is just like Mario 64" feeling shows how absolutely PERFECT an example of how to do a sequel that game really was.
That being said, I do feel that it their is a tremendous imbalance in the flack that FPS games take for being "all the same" while other genres can shart out generic sequel after generic sequel and take no heat for it. Madden is always 90% the same, most racing games are super similar as well.
BloodMoney
Banned
What FPS in your mind is not bland?