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[TheNatural]

another funny guy lol look on the net you could barely preorder the damn thing anywhere for atleast a good week. I dont care what part of retail u work in I know because I have a deluxe that i preordered as soon as they allowed. I constantly followed the wii u thread here on neogaf go check it out for yourself if you dont comprehend. Maybe you could sell more retail.
there was even a thread on gaf letting people know when preorders were gonna be available and at what stores. Why would i make this up its here in its own thread.

What the fuck do preorders matter for demand? If something comes out and preorders are 1% of the total allotment, what does it mean? Especially for bullshit stores like Gamestop that tell you that you need a preorder for EVERYTHING and only get two of something.

The NPD is out now, its not prelaunch bullshitting, we see the numbers and they're not good because there's no demand. The system wasn't hard to get, so I'm not understanding what you're arguing.

 

[quetz67]

Higher specs have never, ever had anything to do with which console is more or less popular. Ever.

3DS v Vita?

N64 v PSOne?

PS2 vs GCN/Xbox?

DS v PSP?

Game Gear v Game Boy?

Wii v 360/PS3?

The consoles with less horsepower tend to always be the market leader.

I don't thinks this proves anything. It is mostly true for handhelds, with home consoles the power difference was never that huge just with Wii vs. PS360.

And the Wii had something revolutionary that people were excited about, which doesn't seem to be the case with Wii U. So Nintendo need to depend on their 1st party games and that wasn't enough to make N64/GC huge success stories.

 

[PhantomR]

Well I guess Nintendo is lying because they said they designed the Wii U to appeal to everyone in contrast to the wii

 

[phosphor112]

phosphor112 please check your facts.

Or you can point out which one is incorrect?

 

[spannicus]

What the fuck do preorders matter for demand? If something comes out and preorders are 1% of the total allotment, what does it mean? Especially for bullshit stores like Gamestop that tell you that you need a preorder for EVERYTHING and only get two of something.

The NPD is out now, its not prelaunch bullshitting, we see the numbers and they're not good because there's no demand. The system wasn't hard to get, so I'm not understanding what you're arguing.

will u be pre ordering a ps4 or xbox 720?

 

[metalslimer]

People are trying to say that Nintendo and Sony systems appeal to completely different audiences, but Iwata themselves have said they wanted that CoD audience on their systems buying games. That's the whole point behind the Wii U name, or at least what I got from Reggie's dumb explanation for that crappy name. The same thing is being said, but on the reverse side about how the 3DS and Vita are in completely different markets which is just untrue and damage control for the bad sales of Vita.

 

[TheNatural]

will u be pre ordering a ps4 or xbox 720?

C: None of the above

 

[spannicus]

C: None of the above

lol

 

[GillianSeed79]

If the PS4 is not better than current PCs it's not allowed to be considered "next gen."

Lol. Who cares what is "allowed"? Especially by some random dude on Gaf.

People can't have their cake and eat it too. I'm not about to get into an argument about whether WiiU is next-gen or not, but you have one group of people arguing that it is next-gen and then in this very thread people suddenly saying, well, Nintendo isn't in competition or trying to compete with Sony after the PS4 reveal and the WiiU's rough launch and sales numbers. Which is it? The fact is everything is competing with everything. For example, Microsoft didn't release the Surface on a whim. They released it because tablets are directly competing with home computers, Microsoft's bread and butter.

At the start of last gen you had Nintendo saying they didn't see themselves as direct competitiors with Sony and Microsoft when they unveiled the Wii. Of course they were competitors. They decided that the way they were going to compete was to not get into a specs war with Sony and Microsoft and released a console at a mass market price with motion controls to differentiate themselves. It worked. Everyone laughed at first until Nintendo couldn't keep Wii's on store shelves and all of a sudden John Stewart and Venus Williams were playing WiiSports at the Oscars. What happened next? Microsoft and Sony trotted out the stupid argument that, well, we don't see ourselves as directly competing with Nintendo.

It's a dumb argument. Every game is competing for people's time and dollars whether it's on WiiU, iOS or PS4. Manufacturers are competing for people's money, third party support and support from service providers like Netflix. Nintendo released an HD system with the WiiU to compete with, at the very least, the 360 and PS3 to try to win back some of the core gamers they lost with the Wii and to try to win back major third party support that fell off a cliff with the Wii.

It's just slightly annoying when you have people falling over themselves one week to defend Nintendo's honor, proclaiming that WiiU is next-gen only to see people come up with excuses about its sales by saying that, well, it's not really trying to compete with the PS4 or 720.

 

[spock]

Looking at Nintendo's casual teams latest output maybe outside of Nintendoland, they seem pretty creatively bankrupt. From the teams that made so many new IP that pushed the DS and Wii they have been able to create sequel after sequel after sequel

Nintendogs+Cats
Style Saavy 2
Brain Age
Wii Fit
Wii Sports
Wii Party

The expanded market bought into the Wii for fresh ideas with the revolutionary controller. Now it seems like Nintendo are expecting people to drop 400 dollars to play the latest updates on those games when its been shown that they are usually content with what they have.


Well I guess Nintendo is lying because they said they designed the Wii U to appeal to everyone in contrast to the wii

Um they create sequals because the orginals from the series already captured a segment. So once they have them inside their ecosystem you feed them sequals to generate revenue.

It's Nintendo MO this last gen. Try and innovate in various ways to dffierent audience in order to create a new hook to pull more segments into their eco system, then they do what you described...create sequals to feed that market and support that part of their ecosystem.

I would bet the farm you are going to see new software designed around the wiiu to do exactly what those other games did. New gameplay and hooks to pull various broader market segments. Sequals dont work well to grab new people only to support the existing base. I'm sure will start to see those new broad market IP's during the next 12 months.

 

[spock]

People are trying to say that Nintendo and Sony systems appeal to completely different audiences, but Iwata themselves have said they wanted that CoD audience on their systems buying games. That's the whole point behind the Wii U name, or at least what I got from Reggie's dumb explanation for that crappy name. The same thing is being said, but on the reverse side about how the 3DS and Vita are in completely different markets which is just untrue and damage control for the bad sales of Vita.

See I interpet this abit different then you. Nintendo does want the core audience but not as there primary market. They want the hardcore crowd along with the broader market. The broader market comes first which is evident from the design philosphy behind the wiiu. Contrast to sony who designed around the core first with the broad second.

I think MS is going to play the middle but they will put a little more weight on the broad market appeal simply becuase you need a fundemntally different canvas to create experinces with when targeting broad appeal. The hardcore is much simpler and easier to hook in.

 

[AzaK]

See I interpet this abit different then you. Nintendo does want the core audience but not as there primary market. They want the hardcore crowd along with the broader market. The broader market comes first which is evident from the design philosphy behind the wiiu. Contrast to sony who designed around the core first with the broad second.

I think MS is going to play the middle but they will put a little more weight on the broad market appeal simply becuase you need a fundemntally different canvas to create experinces with when targeting broad appeal. The hardcore is much simpler and easier to hook in.

You could be right, but they damn well knew how a lot of the core audience would take Reggie's comments. Basically they used misdirection and half truths.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

So it should be apparent that when you've got the itch to play the latest big-budget dudebro action game, you reach for the DualShock. If family-friendly, primary-colored fun is your game, Nintendo's got something for ya.

Even in multi-console households (and believe me, I have more than I know what to do with), different consoles satisfy different needs.

....but not necessarily different PEOPLE. Nintendo fans are also Sony fans most of the time.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Sold out at launch? Lol.

They shipped 1.3M of them last quarter to the Americas and may not even sell through that shipment at the end of this quarter.

 

[metalslimer]

Sold out at launch? Lol.

They shipped 1.3M of them last quarter to the Americas and may not even sell through that shipment at the end of this quarter.

May not? It's a guarantee they won't. They haven't even reached the million mark and honestly may not reach it again in February with nothing coming out. It would have to then sell over 300k to reach it.

 

[walking fiend]

Breaking it down to least powerful console always wins is complete revisionist history. Also it's funny that the Dreamcast gets left out of the PS2/Xbox/GC gen to try and make that point stick.

Well, how about this, $499 consoles don't win?

---
People are so forgetful; how much were PS3 and 360 selling before dropping to almost half of their original price?

Sold out at launch? Lol.

They shipped 1.3M of them last quarter to the Americas and may not even sell through that shipment at the end of this quarter.

I will be really surprised if they can sell any more than 10k hardware per week earlier than late March. Why would they?

The system basically has only 3 exclusives: NSMBU, ZombiU and NL; and then it's priced almost 2 times more than competition, 360 at least.

 

[$h@d0w]

Actually I think for nintendo the wiiu is isnt competing with anyone but aspiring to follow the path as close as they can of the original wii.

My interpretation aligns with yours. Nintendo is trying to capture the widest range of customers as possible with a excellently targeted price point. However, this time around, the product and the sentiment isn't aligned.

They're stuck in no man's land competing with some very entrenched competition - hence their difficulty at the market at the moment.

It's about to get worse this holiday season, I expect both Sony and Microsoft will announce price cuts on the current generation hardware which will put the squeeze on the loss leading Wii U. Furthermore, you have next gen rolling off the production line to get the cutting edge consumers who crave the latest and greatest.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

My interpretation aligns with yours. Nintendo is trying to capture the widest range of customers as possible with a excellently targeted price point. However, this time around, the product and the sentiment isn't aligned.

They're stuck in no man's land competing with some very entrenched competition - hence their difficulty at the market at the moment.

It's about to get worse this holiday season, I expect both Sony and Microsoft will announce price cuts on the current generation hardware which will put the squeeze on the loss leading Wii U. Furthermore, you have next gen rolling off the production line to get the cutting edge consumers who crave the latest and greatest.

Nintendo is basically stuck with their dilemma of timing the WiiU poorly trying to catch the PS3/360 fanbase but there's no real reason to jump to the WiiU when you're already playing those third-party games on the PS3/360, and their platform is quite possibly not equiped to hang with the next generation of consoles.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I would say about the same.

I sort of assumed the console's library would consist of Nintendo games, lots of indie stuff on the eShop, the odd third party exclusive and minimal multiplats.

I feel this is still the case.

 

[shinra-bansho]

May not? It's a guarantee they won't. They haven't even reached the million mark and honestly may not reach it again in February with nothing coming out. It would have to then sell over 300k to reach it.

Well, I was trying to be somewhat diplomatic. But yes, I don't see it happening either. They'll ship some paltry amount though presumably as some parts of the retail channel will still need refilling.

People are so forgetful; how much were PS3 and 360 selling before dropping to almost half of their original price?

About 4x more in their respective third months than the Wii U at half of their original price, PS3 at least.

it's priced almost 2 times more than competition, 360 at least.

Were ASP's posted. It's likely only ~$50-70 more than the ASP of either 7th gen HD console.

 

[AzaK]

Nintendo is basically stuck with their dilemma of timing the WiiU poorly trying to catch the PS3/360 fanbase but there's no real reason to jump to the WiiU when you're already playing those third-party games on the PS3/360, and their platform is quite possibly not equiped to hang with the next generation of consoles.

I've said it before but I don't think Nintendo are trying to get the current crop of core gamers to choose them for new-gen. They are trying to just keep their fans on their platform and not buy another machine for the multiplats.

 

[Canon]

Nintendo needs to radically redesign the eShop, first of all. It's slow, ugly, and barren. Then speed up the system overall. Then go to Rockstar and pay them to make a Wii U version of GTA V. Then show an amazing trailer for Smash Bros and Zelda at E3. Then bundle NSMB Wii U in November for $349 with Nintendo Land and discontinue the basic model. Then release a Nintendo branded external hard drive at a reasonable price.

Also, while doing this, they should actually market the system.

 

[Usobuko]

I don't think it's at a worst shape, I see both catering to rather different audience. Nintendo can sell Wii U as a complimentary console to those who are going for PC/PS4/Xbox 720 as their main ones. Differentiation helps more than competing at this point.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Soft release worked wonders for the Saturn. Third parties sure love to know a console is out and selling poorly rather than not being out at all, lemme tell ya.

PS1 didn't have a very impressive first few years, either. Once things like FF VII started releasing PS1 really took off in its third year.

 

[Perkel]

Care to elaborate ?
Regardless I'm glad you found my post funny, at least you didn't read it for nothing.

Launch not Lunch. Two different things. I did same mistake few times.

 

[bobeth]

PS1 didn't have a very impressive first few years, either. Once things like FF VII started releasing PS1 really took off in its third year.

Sony wasn't exactly a household name gaming-wise at that point..

 

[ASIS]

Or you can say the most popular consoles always have been the ones with most games...so Wii U will never be the market leader.

So you agree, power has very little to do with popularity?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Sony wasn't exactly a household name gaming-wise at that point..

Yeah, I'm not pointing to PS1 as a Wii U analog--more that Saturn's failures were its own rather than that PS1 was doing super impressive at the same time.

 

[spock]

My interpretation aligns with yours. Nintendo is trying to capture the widest range of customers as possible with a excellently targeted price point. However, this time around, the product and the sentiment isn't aligned.

They're stuck in no man's land competing with some very entrenched competition - hence their difficulty at the market at the moment.

It's about to get worse this holiday season, I expect both Sony and Microsoft will announce price cuts on the current generation hardware which will put the squeeze on the loss leading Wii U. Furthermore, you have next gen rolling off the production line to get the cutting edge consumers who crave the latest and greatest.

The more I've thought about it, I'm actually more optimistic for Nintendo in the coming year and future overall. The fact Sony is going such a traditional route works to even further Nintendo potential wii like success.

Everyone is forgetting the wiiu is a few months old and very early in it life cycle. Its designed from the ground up to create games that could appeal to the broad market. The cost and time to create each game that attempts to tap into a broader market is much less then traditional games. Combine all this with Nintendos proven track record as one of the few companies able to capture multiple segments of the broader market more then once...and they seem in a much better position on the whole.

Basically their upside potential is much greater then Sony right now. MS is still a potential Dark horse. One thing they don't have is a proven track record of creating multiple broad market disruptive games that catch. They have some ability wich showed with kinnect but there not on the same level of ability as nintendo. (brain age, wii fit, wii sports, nintendogs, etc..)

People talk about capturing these sub groups in the broad market like catching lightening in a bottle, well nintendo has done it multiple times. They have some kind of insight into it.. and they built a console to be their lightening rod.

I honestly think its just a matter of time and couple targeted attempts before they create an "it" factor title for the wiiu in the next 24 months.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Wii U prices on Craigslist have dropped locally since the Sony presser. They were going for about $50 below MSRP, now it's pretty easy to snag one for $100 below MSRP (which is tempting me).

Interestingly, Vita owners locally refuse to admit that they need to discount the thing to sell it. People are selling bundles of a system, card, and a ton of games for maybe $50 below MSRP for the whole bundle, and bare systems for like $20 below MSRP. They don't seem to be selling though.

 

[Mononoke]

Watch Dogs?

Yeah, this surprises me. Given how advanced Watch Dogs looks, it's hard to imagine it running on Wii U. I have to imagine it will be a severely downgraded port.

 

[Toski]

Yeah, this surprises me. Given how advanced Watch Dogs looks, it's hard to imagine it running on Wii U. I have to imagine it will be a severely downgraded port.

It's just going to be a port of the PS360 version with gamepad functions. If Watch_Dogs was meant strictly for Durango/Orbis/PC, Wii U wouldn't be seeing the game.

 

[walking fiend]

.About 4x more in their respective third months than the Wii U at half of their original price, PS3 at least.

So PS3 shipped 12m in its first 3 months!? And if Wii U ships like 20m by the end of its second year, it means PS3 and 360 shipped 80m in their first two years?

ASP's Were posted. It's likely only ~$50-70 more than the ASP of either 7th gen HD console.

lol, what? Yeah, maybe more than ASP of 360 at launch, and excluding the controller and camera cost, packaging and assembly, of course. And then lets not forget they were losing huge moneys even when they launched PS3/360 at those prices.


It's really interesting to see people being so optimist and forgiving when it comes to MS and Sony, but twist the facts all the time to make the Nintendo situation look grim like hell.

 

[AzaK]

Yeah, this surprises me. Given how advanced Watch Dogs looks, it's hard to imagine it running on Wii U. I have to imagine it will be a severely downgraded port.

The demo's they've shown of Watch Dogs to date are running in high end PC's. Almost all platforms will have to be downgraded. And if PS3 and 360 can run it, the Wii U most certainly can - and better.

 

[metalslimer]

Yeah, this surprises me. Given how advanced Watch Dogs looks, it's hard to imagine it running on Wii U. I have to imagine it will be a severely downgraded port.

According to Yves the other versions will be downports from the high end versions. It sounded like they hadn't even begun work on them yet. It sounded like they could end up being vastly different.

The demo's they've shown of Watch Dogs to date are running in high end PC's. Almost all platforms will have to be downgraded

.

Although they did say the specs they were running Watch Dogs at on the PCs for the conference were basically the same as the PS4. Although I know the specs they listed for the PCs from last E3 were definitely more powerful

 

[darkistheway]

I don't think Nintendo needs to worry about PS3/360 this fall. Sure, they'll keep selling and probably have price drops but there isn't any new games coming. All the marketing dollars will spent on new system and games. Nintendo is probably going to push the Wii U's casual games really hard as a counter to Sony and Microsoft marketing their new consoles to the hardcore, early adopters.

I expect a Wii Sports update and a Mario Kart from Nintendo this fall and maybe one other casual title.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Sold out at launch? Lol.

They shipped 1.3M of them last quarter to the Americas and may not even sell through that shipment at the end of this quarter.

Launch week did sell out, at least in the US. We had multiple confirmations of that, even from Pachter's channel checks.

We got regional breakdowns? Do we know what the Japan and Other split were?

May not? It's a guarantee they won't. They haven't even reached the million mark and honestly may not reach it again in February with nothing coming out. It would have to then sell over 300k to reach it.

US =/= Americas

Sellthrough is undoubtedly over 1m by the end of Jan for North America. Probably not much over though, Canada usually manages 8-10% of US sales (and is traditionally stronger for Nintendo specifically, sort of like the "France of America") and Mexico/Central/South America will be next to nothing.

I'd agree that additional shipments are questionable after the shocking January NPD. Though it's worth noting PS3 had 500k unsold stock in channel at the end of 2006 for NA+Japan, and still managed to ship 800k to those regions for Q1 2007 while only selling 830k US+JP in Q1 2007. I could still see NA shipments as high as 1.5-1.6 ltd by the end of the FY, particularly since we're getting a new bundle.

 

[prag16]

It sounded like they hadn't even begun work on them yet. It sounded like they could end up being vastly different.

Entirely baseless conjecture, and not reasonable assumptions based on anything they've said.

 

[gutter_trash]

Yeah, this surprises me. Given how advanced Watch Dogs looks, it's hard to imagine it running on Wii U. I have to imagine it will be a severely downgraded port.

I believe games will all be developed on super power PCs and then get ported onto said consoles that have now PC specs.

 

[prag16]

I don't think Nintendo needs to worry about PS3/360 this fall. Sure, they'll keep selling and probably have price drops but there isn't any new games coming. All the marketing dollars will spent on new system and games. Nintendo is probably going to push the Wii U's casual games really hard as a counter to Sony and Microsoft marketing their new consoles to the hardcore, early adopters.

I expect a Wii Sports update and a Mario Kart from Nintendo this fall and maybe one other casual title.

It should be noted that massive PS360 price cuts could negatively affect PS4/Durango, possibly even more than it affects Wii U, especially if many early 'next gen' games are cross gen as well.

 

[metalslimer]

Entirely baseless conjecture, and not reasonable assumptions based on anything they've said.

They said Watch Dogs was being made for higher end systems and then the developers will take that vision and make it for the current gen consoles. Considering we've seen absolutely nothing of those other versions it sounds like they want to finish the main SKU and then do the port to PS3/360. Where the Wii U version ends up who knows.

It should be noted that massive PS360 price cuts could negatively affect PS4/Durango, possibly even more than it affects Wii U, especially if many early 'next gen' games are cross gen as well.

People buying a PS3/360 this late in the game were not going to be interested in new 399 dollar consoles regardless. If the PS4/Durango fail it will be on their own merits and now the PS3/360's fault.

US =/= Americas

I was under the impression NPD counted the US and Canada. Is it really only America?

 

[prag16]

They said Watch Dogs was being made for higher end systems and then the developers will take that vision and make it for the current gen consoles. Considering we've seen absolutely nothing of those other versions it sounds like they want to finish the main SKU and then do the port to PS3/360. Where the Wii U version ends up who knows.

Again with this assumption is not a downport, but instead a 'sideways' port of PS360. Where does this BS come from?

And the comment you're referring to indicates more that they are shooting for a similar experience rather than something vastly different.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If anything, the announcement makes the Wii U even more irrelevant.

Wii U was already competing with the PS3/360 since launch, and doing substantially worse I might add.

The same people picking up a PS3/360 now aren't going to switch over to a Wii U, they're going to go after the next big thing that's seen as a tangible upgrade and not some reactionary device that's trying to play catch up to both 7 year old consoles and tablets at the same time.

Don't get me wrong; Nintendo I suspect will announce some great content (which will inevitably lead to me purchasing one), but it's going to cater to the Nintendo core audience alone, and the mass public and core gamers in general will largely continue to ignore it. You're left with a market that's approximately the same size as the GameCube (perhaps only slightly larger).

There's really not much Nintendo can do at this point. They haven't created a device that's attractive to the masses. Too little, too late.

 

[FLAguy954]

It's just going to be a port of the PS360 version with gamepad functions. If Watch_Dogs was meant strictly for Durango/Orbis/PC, Wii U wouldn't be seeing the game.

Wii U would have still gotten the game, they have a phenomenal relationship with Ubisoft.

 

[metalslimer]

Again with this assumption is not a downport, but instead a 'sideways' port of PS360. Where does this BS come from?

And the comment you're referring to indicates more that they are shooting for a similar experience rather than something vastly different.

Well by vastly different I mean in terms of features and the world and not just a lower resolution,different lighting system, etc. we've seen from PC to PS3/360 games this gen. If the game was made for higher end to begin with, we could see change in the way the world reacts to player choice, the size of the world in general, etc.

Wii U would have still gotten the game, they have a phenomenal relationship with Ubisoft.

Ubisoft apparently was the first western developer to get Wii U dev kits. But if you're going to do a Wii U version of a game it doesn't really make sense to exclude the huge userbase of the PS3/360.

 

[deviljho]

Ubisoft apparently was the first western developer to get Wii U dev kits. But if you're going to do a Wii U version of a game it doesn't really make sense to exclude the huge userbase of the PS3/360.

I think some people keep making the mistake of thinking that the "computing power" of the Wii U being closer to the PS360 than the PS4/720 means that porting is easier across PS360 and Wii U than downporting PS4/720 games to Wii U. That's not how it works.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I was under the impression NPD counted the US and Canada. Is it really only America?

There's a separate NPD Canada report, but the monthly figures we get are US only.

 

[SniperHunter]

PS4 unveiling will have no effect Wii U. The system just doesn't have the games...it will continue to bomb for the foreseeable future.

 

[FLAguy954]

Well by vastly different I mean in terms of features and the world and not just a lower resolution,different lighting system, etc. we've seen from PC to PS3/360 games this gen. If the game was made for higher end to begin with, we could see change in the way the world reacts to player choice, the size of the world in general, etc.



Ubisoft apparently was the first western developer to get Wii U dev kits. But if you're going to do a Wii U version of a game it doesn't really make sense to exclude the huge userbase of the PS3/360.

And I'd imagine the game would be at least in between the PS360 and PS4/PC versions as the final devkits are out in the open and the game will be in the 'second wave'.

I think some people keep making the mistake of thinking that the "computing power" of the Wii U being closer to the PS360 than the PS4/720 means that porting is easier across PS360 and Wii U than downporting PS4/720 games to Wii U. That's not how it works.

Exactly. The programming features and similar architecture gives the Wii U a better chance to receive downports from the PS4/720 as opposed to upports from PS360, both of which have totally different architecture.

 

[metalslimer]

I think some people keep making the mistake of thinking that the "computing power" of the Wii U being closer to the PS360 than the PS4/720 means that porting is easier across PS360 and Wii U than downporting PS4/720 games to Wii U. That's not how it works.

I never said it was easier, just that it didn't make sense to exclude the 150 million audience of the PS3/360 which is why so many cross gen games are going to exist.

And I'd imagine the game would be at least in between the PS360 and PS4/PC versions as the final devkits are out in the open and the game will be in the 'second wave'.

Depends on how much effort Ubisoft decides to put in.