That's fine as long as you don't lambast people for choosing the former. Because that seems to be a common mentality, the "if you're not with us you're against us" school of thought.
Polygon gives high scores to games despite their anti-consumer aspects / DRM strategy
- Thread starter Vire
- Start date
That's fine as long as you don't lambast people for choosing the former. Because that seems to be a common mentality, the "if you're not with us you're against us" school of thought.
Hyperbole? I can't speak for Vire but are you assuming that there is absolutely no middle ground?
They had credit in the first place? Honestly news to me.
BolognaSoup
Member
Quick EA, if you can fix the servers AND get the
bigger maps out tonight, they might bump the score to 11!
inevitable DLC
Riposte
Member
You were criticizing your argument tongue-in-check as your argument? So you know slippery slope is a fallacy, but continue to practice it anyway? Maybe I don't believe it was a joke.
EDIT: Why is my skull thick again?
I was asking for demonstrations of this influence. You don't have to give examples, but it was an odd thing to say given what I can observe.
Vire
Member
Listen, I don't want to make enemies with anyone here. As I said, we are GAF - all the same team. That doesn't mean we can't disagree, I just find it confusing why anyone would stick up for the publisher in this scenario.
That's all.
indigo-cyclops
Member
That's just Blizzard being humble you see. Getting rid of the old Lead Designer and bringing in a new guy was actually because the game was too perfect, and they can't let that happen.
cutmeamango
Banned
I thought it was acceptance (existence of customers to those products) in sufficient quantities that would motivate the augmentation of those practices.
In other words, if they offered products and services where the amount of interested costumers did not prove a financial reason to maintain them, they would cease to exist or at the least, be modified.
If there are those who buy them, I will not pretend to be more intelligent or enlightned, because currently I have not come across a practice that deteriorated the quality of the product I bought or impeded me to play or compete at equal grounds. Any option that meets such is usually "fenced" and does not interfere or makes itself necessary for my experience.
I think every consumer is capable of better judgement to what they expect of a product and what they see as worth to improve/add to their experience, and if that requires a time or money investiment, it will be their choice.
I bought GT5 at launch retail price and all the subsequent downloadable offerings, at launch too. I evaluated that they were worthy. Some may think they are not. And so life goes.
I don't assume anything. Assuming anything is ridiculous because we don't know what will happen for sure. There are plenty of examples to support both sides of the argument, so at this point in time assuming it will or won't is pure conjecture.
What Vire describes is exactly a slippery slope argument, I'll post it again from the link that he posted:
His response was
Vire said:
Which is pretty much a textbook slippery slope argument.
There's no way to predict with 100% accuracy how microtransactions will pan out.
I take it you missed my first sentence where I said I don't know if it will get worse or not? Or did you not read my post that you quoted?
Is trying not to comprehend a future because I really don't understand how it works in the first place really "choosing to accept it."
You're acting as if the world is already collapsing. Can't we just chill out and start overreacting when the real danger comes?
RobbieNick
Junior Member
A message needs to be sent to these companies. Vote with your wallet. Do NOT under any circumstance buy a game that has DRM in it. If everyone did that, even if it was just to one company, they would have to stop using DRM or it would hurt their sales.
IrishNinja
Member
goddamn, that blizzard quip there...someone really should've thought that through, if they truly want their reviews to be read after a few weeks.
Read the few sentences on wikipedia immediately following what you quoted. Predicting how something will slowly get worse over time is not a slippery slope fallacy. A slippery slope fallacy is when there is a large leap in unproven logic between the causality of point B from a point A.
Vire
Member
You don't think the Real Money Auction House or Always On DRM is a real problem?
What kind of games do you play?
DRM sure, maybe. But that's been around for a while and getting better in some aspects. I played 120 hours of Diablo 3 and didn't participate or even look at the auction house until I was burnt out at the game so for that particular case, no.
was a pretty bad joke tho duder.
Microtransactions arent gaming AIDS, they can be handled well, its just that theyre usually handled poorly. Absolute statements like this are just ridiculous
You are right, the price argument was poor. However DRM doesn't gradually degrade like price. You can play 25 year old PC games and still be forced to deal with the weird DRM schemes developers implemented, like decoder wheels. Unless EA decides to remove DRM from all games down the line, or from games of a certain age, SimCity will always be saddled with its DRM.
We clearly have different perspectives on this.
And Vire seems to be ignoring the possibility of a middle ground. I am not. He is also using the 'small change tolerance' argument which is one of the types of slippery slope arguments. Try reading the entire entry.
Anyways, this isn't a microtransaction/DRM thread, it's a review thread.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Yep, go play Path of exile or Dota 2.
Don't buy games or play games with horrible microtransactions if they upset you.
Jigolo
Member
heh, I guess you're right.
Didn't they say something along the lines that they are going to change gaming journalismfor the better or something. :x
Agreed.
As long as there is an option to get the same experience within the game.
Not everyone has the same amount of free time. If I want to throw a cheeky 120MS points toward a weapon part for example, that's my own choice.
Am i the only one that spend a good part of that twitter combo confused of why was Bryan Crecente bashing his own site and suddenly becoming elocuent.
Pretty good article on why the bar is so low on gaming journalism:
No shit.
Pretty good article on why the bar is so low on gaming journalism:
“I don’t look so much into experience. I don’t care so much about where people have written.” – Justin McElroy, Polygon managing editor
Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/01/y...rnalist-no-gods-or-kings/#OI2AtDzMErBRIKut.99
No shit.
Their features are pretty good actually. Their reviews are the same as any other big sites.
ebullientprism
Member
Vire
Member
Just for curiosity sake, what would be this middle ground you think Publishers would use?
jim-jam bongs
Member
This has probably already been pointed out but anti-consumer and anti-consumerism are mutually exclusive and almost antithetical.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I like Polygon, Gaf doesn't like anyone that posts news/reviews that's not Gaf. News at 11.
No GAF likes people who don't act like children on a regular basis in the public eye just fine. Polygon is just downright unprofessional whilst trying to maintain a veneer of professionalism.
Plenty of people here enjoy RPS. Also, who is this Gaf fellow.
IrishNinja
Member
can you elaborate, jim jam?
thanks, this really spoke to the specific topic at hand. can a mod please (again) change the title to Sites Deadly Cyclone Fancies
partyphone
Banned
GAF isn't a mono-culture. I dislike polygon enough to never go there again. But I like giantbomb and rockpapershotgun and ars.
Vire
Member
:lol
Also I think Jim's speaking of the fact that
Anti Consumer = Against the consumer practices
Anti Consumerism = Against purchasing/stimulating the economy kind of deal
Not inherently, but it's very, very easy to fall into the wrong side I wished publishers leave this out from games.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
It does. a majority of people on Gaf find sites they hate and then proceed to find every nitpick they can just for an excuse to bash them in their own thread. From what I've seen of Polygon they do the best (aside from Giant Bomb, Shack, and maybe RPS) articles/reviews out there. Are they required to knock points off for DRM? Is anyone? Does anyone?
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
I'll bet you never played Diablo III when your internet was out or when their servers were down.
It's really a great scheme
jim-jam bongs
Member
Oh it's not a big deal, the OP just used the term anti-consumerism at one point when I think they meant anti-consumer. Being anti-consumerism means eschewing the practice of rampant consumption and generally describes an individual, while being anti-consumer is a more generalised term applied to businesses which enact policies and ideologies which actively limit the rights of the consumer.
I see them as somewhat at odds myself, because a dedicated anti-consumerist would be unlikely to be in a position to be anti-consumer.
Yeah exactly, sorry I didn't want to derail. Just noticed it in the OP which I largely agree with for the record
Yeah, it's this refusal to honestly review games and take publishers to task that makes me question reviewers.
There's a conflict of interests there between retaining access to review copies, previews, etc... and actually giving their audience legitimate, unbiased reviews. This game is riddled with anti-consumer nonsense, accomplishes less than its predecessors, but it still earns an 8/10?
There's a conflict of interests there between retaining access to review copies, previews, etc... and actually giving their audience legitimate, unbiased reviews. This game is riddled with anti-consumer nonsense, accomplishes less than its predecessors, but it still earns an 8/10?
Once you start to do this with scores, you set yourself up for a precedent that you can never hope to fulfill going forward. Imagine if MMOs were reviewed for the moving targets that they were -- it's just not feasible, and it's hardly ever done. I also think that being able to slap off one point from a score just speaks to how arbitrary most scoring metrics are to begin with, or at least, twenty point scoring metrics. I don't think five-star systems suffer from nearly as many problems as those do.
IrishNinja
Member
ah, i gotta (jim jam), prolly an important distinction.
i think there's reason they're being harped on here, though: with the current example of SimCity, they rushed a shoddy review out, "ammended it" (in a way that will affect no one), and called it day, hence Bogost calling them out a few pages back here.
this seems to be a trend, as Mik posted on this very page regarding Diablo 3 and its seemingly unplayable state when reviewed:
i believe OP (and others) are illustrating a clear pattern of apologism/acting against the very principles they lauded when opening (amid the heavy MS sponsorship woes). while these issues might not be exclusive to them, OP made a thread focusing on said examples, hence the discussion. whether or not other sites put more effort into their reviews isn't really relevant here either, i think.
i think there's reason they're being harped on here, though: with the current example of SimCity, they rushed a shoddy review out, "ammended it" (in a way that will affect no one), and called it day, hence Bogost calling them out a few pages back here.
this seems to be a trend, as Mik posted on this very page regarding Diablo 3 and its seemingly unplayable state when reviewed:
i believe OP (and others) are illustrating a clear pattern of apologism/acting against the very principles they lauded when opening (amid the heavy MS sponsorship woes). while these issues might not be exclusive to them, OP made a thread focusing on said examples, hence the discussion. whether or not other sites put more effort into their reviews isn't really relevant here either, i think.
The way I've gotten around it is just lagging behind a month or so of when a game comes out. You miss out on a preorder bonus, sure, but you get the game for $20 off and know if the game you're getting is real or shit. Alternatively you could just buy it and not open it until it's legitimately reviewed.
Unstoppable Lionheart
Banned
Scores don't matter. Reasoning does.
10 means absolutely holy shit amazing game. It's not something you spit out like candy.
1-5 is a god awful game that no one should buy. Also not something that should be thrown out like candy.
If you rate something low and your reasoning is shit, then you deserve the shit you get.
Now I'm not familiar with your particular reviews but your post is not logically justifiable.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I think it's naive to think a review's going to dock a game heavily because of drm, especially if most people won't give a shit about it.
One thing about Polygon that feels weird though is the awkward pullquotes thing they do in their reviews. It's magazine-specific, since you flip through pages and they're supposed to grab your attention and make you stop flipping. These are below the fold on specific webpages, and I'm already reading your review, so stop with the affectation already. They really feel like a box-quote highlighter, almost like they're trying to give the marketing people a way to grab them for the box without even having to do all that pesky reading.
One thing about Polygon that feels weird though is the awkward pullquotes thing they do in their reviews. It's magazine-specific, since you flip through pages and they're supposed to grab your attention and make you stop flipping. These are below the fold on specific webpages, and I'm already reading your review, so stop with the affectation already. They really feel like a box-quote highlighter, almost like they're trying to give the marketing people a way to grab them for the box without even having to do all that pesky reading.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
It's to grab the attention of the people who scroll down just to read the score.
That is exactly the 10 point scale that they don't use and no one should. There's no point in having 1-5 if it means one thing.