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[Plinko]

They aren't forcing anyone. The Xbox will function fine offline. For those that are online you never see a progress bar to download an update, or a dlc, or a new game. It is all done seamlessly when the console is "off". How is this bad?

How is this proof of what you're saying? EVERY rumor we've seen points to always online. Even GAF insiders say the same thing.

 

[rakkadakka]

Having read the xdk description, I didn't see anything on there that say internet connection is mandatory. Kinect always connected is a big meh for me. It's always connected on my 360 now.

 

[ekim]

How is this proof of what you're saying? EVERY rumor we've seen points to always online. Even GAF insiders say the same thing.

:X

 

[JHall]

Something I wonder about always online and Kinect, isn't it possible that some creepy hackers hack your 720 and look around in your living room all day?

I hope they enjoy watching me walking around naked in my home then.

 

[DigitalOp]

Take a deep breath, and use proper punctuation.

The fiascos with Diablo 3 and SimCity--and the ensuing backlash, proved that THEIR DRM model is the wrong way to go. That notion of "no offline play" is toxic for any publisher, developer, etc. Further, Blizzard and EA explicitly confirmed that players would have to be online in order to play (even though EA got called out on that one lol).

In this situation, there is ZERO indication that's the same case. Yet people, like yourself, are FLYING off the handle, reading statements that haven't been made, seeing things that haven't actually been said, and launching into absurd tirades when we still don't know anything for sure. But I guess that's simply how it goes around here. People don't think. They just react.

Look, nobody is saying that it isn't possible these nightmare scenarios couldn't happen. They absolutely could. We've seen big publishers push in that direction already--but keep in mind how badly that turned out for them.

What we're saying is read what's been actually said, and don't just jump to the worst case scenario based on what you *think* was implied.

Your losing the plot and ready to organise the villagers to go down to MS headquarters with pitchforks and burn them to the ground over "potential". NO where in this XDK ( the part we can see) does it say you can't play games without a network connection, no where. Without any facts people are adding 2 + 2 and getting 5. I really couldn't care if there is a permanent connection that constantly updates games etc as long as I an play offline should my isp have a problem. No used games I'll be one of the first in to complain but we have no concrete facts to suggest this at all.

Okay. Yes, I did come in this morning and flip shit on GAF, sorry. But please don't confuse my anger for seething but rather just being passionate. I really don't like the road the industry is taking and the anti-consumer bull that publishers have been getting away with is getting ridiculous. I feel like nobody really cares if they get nickel or dimed and thats aside of the point, this is affecting our games as well to a greater degree.

NOTHING has been confirmed. I know that. My context isnt the actual news in itself but the bigger overlying picture of it all. In light of this new document, here is more proof that Microsoft was at least talking about it. That's all I need to justify my feelings. By going off MS's track record with the "evolution" of Xbox Live, I just can't give them the benefit of the doubt.

And this isn't a MS issue with me. I WILL NOT SUPPORT ANY COMPANY WHO DECIDES TO ARBITRATE HOW I CAN ENJOY MY CONTENT REGARDLESS IF I BOUGHT A LICENSE OR NOT.

A Mandatory online connection will stomp all over that and I will not support it. If I can't play my games without an internet connection (ESPECIALLY SINGLE PLAYER), I will not buy it. It could be PowerStone 3 for all I care (That would fucking SUCK)

Its my bottom line, and I refuse to cross it. To each his own.


What really gets at me is when other people support a practice that pretty much gives them the finger to your freedom as a consumer. The worst part about it is when they feel apetheic on the situation. I wouldn't care but this still affects me and my hobby. When publishers see even a whiff of positive results, Its full steam ahead. I kid you not, Its full speed ahead...

 

[Uno Venova]

Offering you a ban bet that it won't require you to be constantly online to play a game.

aren't those banned?

 

[PhatSaqs]

Offering you a ban bet that it won't require you to be constantly online to play a game.

 

[YodaGoneMad]

How is this proof of what you're saying? EVERY rumor we've seen points to always online. Even GAF insiders say the same thing.

The rumors are horse crap, you can believe whatever you want but the actual documentation makes it totally clear. This is not some DRM play, this is the EXACT SAME THING the PS4 is doing. Some imbecile just saw that line and decided to make some headlines by claiming it was a form of DRM. It isn't.

Used games will function exactly the same. Digital titles are tied to the Xbox Live account, disc titles require the disc in the drive to play even though the game actually runs off the HDD. There will likely be tons of online pass sort of things but that is just the direction of the industry.

 

[daveo42]

Required installs are great, as is kinect with every console and an improved controller. Always connected...do not want.

The always connected bit is actually the right route to go in for game updates and such. It becomes an issue if MS says that you have to be connected to actually game. Then it becomes online DRM similar to what Ubisoft tried in the past and what EA did with SimCity.

 

[Klocker]

How is this proof of what you're saying? EVERY rumor we've seen points to always online. Even GAF insiders say the same thing.

rumor?

no. over reactionary, misinterpreted, reading comprehension challenged, OPINION of the rumors of online = REQUIRED for game play..

 

[SpaceHobo]

I feel like either GAF has gone insane or no one actually understands what the Always On actually does...

Console wars , dude.

If you survive you get a tour medal once both consoles are out. It's looking good so far , the level of vitriol has already surpassed the pre release if the Ps360.

I doubt most people even read the OP.

 

[ekim]

aren't those banned?

are they?

if so, I withdraw my offering

 

[Uno Venova]

The rumors or horse crap, you can believe whatever you want but the actual documentation makes it totally clear. This is not some DRM play, this is the EXACT SAME THING the PS4 is doing. Some imbecile just saw that line and decided to make some headlines by claiming it was a form of DRM. It isn't.

Used games will function exactly the same. Digital titles are tied to the Xbox Live account, disc titles require the disc in the drive to play even though the game actually runs off the HDD. There will likely be tons of online pass sort of things but that is just the direction of the industry.

You have info that makes edge's sources horse crap?

are they?

that's the impression i get from this http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=524664

 

[Nibel]

Ban bets are so 2006 (and forbidden)

Avatar bets are awesome though

 

[Bgamer90]

Could someone explain to me why MS would be willing to block out the TONS of people
who don't have broadband connections from the ability of giving them money to play next gen games offline?

Like, a real good explanation as to why they wouldn't want as much money as possible from users of all types?

 

[Dunlop]

Console wars , dude.

If you survive you get a tour medal once both consoles are out. It's looking good so far , the level of vitriol has already surpassed the pre release if the Ps360.

I doubt most people even read the OP.

lol so true

40 pages in an people are still asking questions which are answered in the 8 lines the OP had written (I wouldn't say most though)

 

[Plinko]

Offering you a ban bet that it won't require you to be constantly online to play a game.

Not a chance. Also, not acceptable here. I think always online is probable, but not 100% confirmed. I just keep pointing out how every rumor we've had points to it.

The rumors are horse crap, you can believe whatever you want but the actual documentation makes it totally clear. This is not some DRM play, this is the EXACT SAME THING the PS4 is doing. Some imbecile just saw that line and decided to make some headlines by claiming it was a form of DRM. It isn't.

Used games will function exactly the same. Digital titles are tied to the Xbox Live account, disc titles require the disc in the drive to play even though the game actually runs off the HDD. There will likely be tons of online pass sort of things but that is just the direction of the industry.

rumor?

no. over reactionary, misinterpreted, reading comprehension challenged, OPINION of the rumors of online = REQUIRED for game play..

Again, EDGE. Nailed the PS4 stuff. If they're wrong about Xbox, fine--better news for everyone. But I'm not getting my hopes up because of how accurate they were.

Plus, again, GAF insiders have also said the exact same thing.

 

[YodaGoneMad]

Console wars , dude.

If you survive you get a tour medal once both consoles are out. It's looking good so far , the level of vitriol has already surpassed the pre release if the Ps360.

I doubt most people even read the OP.

Begun, the console war has!

You have info that makes edge's sources horse crap?

It is 100% false. Again, people are free to believe whatever they want, I am not about to leak anything for fake internet fame, but it is 100% certifiable horse feces. Wait for the official announcement. The online stuff is basically the same as PS4 with some extra improvements. Edge just read this XDK descriptions and decided to make some headlines. Saying the online service is essentially the same as the PS4 isn't exciting, claiming it is a SimCity-esque DRM gets them lots of page views.

 

[Klocker]

Again, EDGE. Nailed the PS4 stuff. If they're wrong about Xbox, fine--better news for everyone. But I'm not getting my hopes up because of how accurate they were.

I have yet to read that it is REQUIRED for game play. Please show me the documentation (that is not just an opinion) that "machine is always connected" = no offline gameplay.

 

[gaming_noob]

Begun, the console war has!



It is 100% false. Again, people are free to believe whatever they want, I am not about to leak anything for fake internet fame, but it is 100% certifiable horse feces. Wait for the official announcement. The online stuff is basically the same as PS4 with some extra improvements. Edge just read this XDK descriptions and decided to make some headlines. Saying the online service is essentially the same as the PS4 isn't exciting, claiming it is a SimCity-esque DRM gets them lots of page views.

And your contribution to society is....what?

 

[kaching]

How is this any different to the cameras and microphones in your smartphone or tablet? Or the cameras and mics in all Samsung's top-end TVs?

Where is he saying they are different? I don't think he said "Privacy = Gone" simply because of what XB3 may be doing, but because of what it may do on top of everything else out there.

 

[Uno Venova]

I have yet to read that it is REQUIRED for game play. Please show me the documentation that is not just an opinion that "machine is always connected" = no offline gameplay.

Edge did say it is required, if you need documentation, that's cool. but that does not make the edge article over reactionary, misinterpreted and reading comprehension challenged opinion.

 

[Xenon]

I would go with this one.

Not really, people's expectations are so low now that MS can only go up.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Microsoft just sh-

I don't want a Durango now.

Under powered
Forced waggle
Shitty online service


Wii 3.0

 

[BlastProcessing]

Why are people here being so blindly ignorant? The idea of "always on, always online" is the same exact intention of the PS4. How can anyone read that statement regarding the next Xbox and assume that FOR THEM it must mean being "always online" is "online required"? Some people are just purposely choosing that mindset because they want to make their console choice an easier decision.

Lets make one thing clear, BOTH Sony and MS want you to have their consoles consistently connected to the internet. Why wouldn't they? I would think as a consumer you would as well. That way, you assure that your console and games will be as up to date as possible even while you're away. Its not that when you're offline, you won't be able to play games, its that your OS or games won't be up to date. That's no different from playing a game offline now, and not being able to get the patch updates because you lack a connection to the network. People need to wise up.

People aren't being "blindly ignorant." People are simply incorporating this rumor into the context of the rumors of the past year. Which is a perfectly acceptable way to deal with rumors. The vitriol is because required online is something that they really don't want and they want to make that opinion known.

Microsoft could stop all the speculation at anytime with a definitive statement on the matter, either through official or back channels.

 

[YodaGoneMad]

Could someone explain to me why MS would be willing to block out the TONS of people
who don't have broadband connections from the ability of giving them money to play next gen games offline?

Like, a real good explanation as to why they wouldn't want as much money as possible from users of all types?

They aren't, this is why the disc media is still there even though MS will be running every game off the HDD. They know lots of people don't have fast internet or internet at all. This connection required stuff is just a lame attempt to grab some page views by edge.

And your contribution to society is....what?

??? I don't understand the question...

 

[Klocker]

Edge did say it is required, if you need documentation, that's cool. but that does not make the edge article over reactionary, misinterpreted and reading comprehension challenged opinion.

Required for gameplay? or "always connected", meaning it is a feature not a requirement.


I think you are convoluting the phrase regarding "Kinect is required to be connected" with internet required. That is the reading comprehension part and the misinterpretation part is "always online" /= no offline games.

Again it may be true and we will find out eventually but right now it is no different than PS4 as I am certain that will have the same "feature" of always connected.

 

[ekim]

And your contribution to society is....what?

I don't know who he is but he is 100% right. I can't prove it because my information is based on vocal conversation.

 

[Glorified G]

Required for gameplay? or "always connected", meaning it is a feature not a requirement.


I think you are convoluting the phrase regarding "Kinect is required to be connected" with internet required.

Read EDGE's article. It needs to be online in order for the system to function, period.

 

[Uno Venova]

Required for gameplay? or "always connected", meaning it is a feature not a requirement.


I think you are convoluting the phrase regarding "Kinect is required to be connected" with internet required.

talking about the first line in this article http://www.edge-online.com/news/the...hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/

 

[AgentP]

This makes sense to me, but I would be surprised if the re-activation price was that low, why wouldn't they just charge $60($70?) for that too? None of the rumors so far have really been in the interest of benefitting gamers... milk us for every last dime!

I would assume the disc themselves would have a value, Gamestop and the like would sell them still. Their value would come down relative to the activation cost.

I think the ultimate consumer friendly solution would be to tie that disc to your account when you install it, but when someone else installs that disc to their account, it gets untied from your account.

That way they completely eliminate disc swapping, but they still allow used games.

That should be feasible, everything goes through a activation server which is essentially just a part XBL. This would be consumer friendly (assuming they are connected to the Internet).

 

[Plinko]

Begun, the console war has!

It is 100% false. Again, people are free to believe whatever they want, I am not about to leak anything for fake internet fame, but it is 100% certifiable horse feces. Wait for the official announcement. The online stuff is basically the same as PS4 with some extra improvements. Edge just read this XDK descriptions and decided to make some headlines. Saying the online service is essentially the same as the PS4 isn't exciting, claiming it is a SimCity-esque DRM gets them lots of page views.

See, this is what the problem is. You're saying "It is 100% false" when you have no proof. You're not an insider, or at least haven't made it clear that you are. You have no connection or reputation here on GAF as an insider. That statement is just as bad as all of those saying that it IS 100% true. See, we HAVE insiders with good reputations on here saying that it IS true. If it isn't, great--those insiders were wrong. But, for now, that's all we have.

I have yet to read that it is REQUIRED for game play. Please show me the documentation (that is not just an opinion) that "machine is always connected" = no offline gameplay.

Required for gameplay? or "always connected", meaning it is a feature not a requirement.

I think you are convoluting the phrase regarding "Kinect is required to be connected" with internet required.

Nope--EDGE was quite clear in both articles that always online was something required to run the console. Even the GAF insiders said the same thing.

 

[ekim]

I would assume the disc themselves would have a value, Gamestop and the like would sell them still. Their value would come down relative to the activation cost.





That should be feasible, everything goes through a activation server which is essentially just a part XBL. This would be consumer friendly (assuming they are connected to the Internet).

No way they will individually mark every disc with an unique code or whatever.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Im a Porsche fanboy but drives a nissan

horrible analogy unless you already have a porsche and a nissan and you chose to drive the nissan instead.

 

[gaming_noob]

??? I don't understand the question...

Sorry, that was a lame Jeff Bell joke. Are you an insider or is this your speculation?

 

[Klocker]

See, this is what the problem is. You're saying "It is 100% false" when you have no proof. You're not an insider. You have no connection or reputation here on GAF as an insider. That statement is just as bad as all of those saying that it IS 100% true. See, we HAVE insiders with good reputations on here saying that it IS true. If it isn't, great--those insiders were wrong. But, for now, that's all we have.





Nope--EDGE was quite clear in both articles that always online was something required to run the console. Even the GAF insiders said the same thing.

ok I see where you are getting this now,,, I thought we were still discussing the OP of this thread.

poor reading comprehension on my part where you mentioned Edge.

I still think they are wrong as I think they are stupid to do it unless Sony does it as well (which the machine is capable of and Sony said it is up to the publishers)

We are going there eventually it is just a matter of who goes there first and survives. If TRUE... and the publishers all back MS on it then it is just going to be they way it's going to be. (regarding used games)

 

[NemesisPrime]

Could someone explain to me why MS would be willing to block out the TONS of people
who don't have broadband connections from the ability of giving them money to play next gen games offline?

Like, a real good explanation as to why they wouldn't want as much money as possible from users of all types?

Don't bring reason into this thread. The pitchforks are out!

 

[YodaGoneMad]

I would assume the disc themselves would have a value, Gamestop and the like would sell them still. Their value would come down relative to the activation cost.





That should be feasible, everything goes through a activation server which is essentially just a part XBL. This would be consumer friendly (assuming they are connected to the Internet).

This only works if you require every single console to be online to run. Otherwise I install the game, give it to my friend who unplugs his cable, and we are both playing. Heck, you pass the thing around and 20-30 people all play the same copy.

At this point online required is not an option MS is going to entertain. If they wanted to go that route they likely would not have a disc drive at all. Instead delivering most games over the internet or with flash storage devices at point of sale.

The disc will need to be in the console to play, just like with PS4 and Wii U. The game will always run from the HDD but the disc will be validated anytime you try to play. This will give the digital download games an advantage, you don't need to disc swap to play them. It is a win-win for MS, it keeps people without internet happy and it gives their digital download platform a positive to tout.

 

[jaypah]

And your contribution to society is....what?

I don't think he/she was around for that gaming_noob. So now you just sound like a douche

 

[Argyle]

No way they will individually mark every disc with an unique code or whatever.

Why not? There are already PS3 games out in the wild that have a unique code on each disc (check out how Vita cross-buy works on disc games)....

 

[BlastProcessing]

Begun, the console war has!



It is 100% false. Again, people are free to believe whatever they want, I am not about to leak anything for fake internet fame, but it is 100% certifiable horse feces. Wait for the official announcement. The online stuff is basically the same as PS4 with some extra improvements. Edge just read this XDK descriptions and decided to make some headlines. Saying the online service is essentially the same as the PS4 isn't exciting, claiming it is a SimCity-esque DRM gets them lots of page views.

In cases like this, if people waited for the announcement it would be too late. Dosen't it make sense to loudly state that online requirements are not cool before the point of no return? Even if it all works out fine (and I really think it will, MS is not that hubristic, are they?) I don't see how voicing an opinion about this rumor is wrong. Some people are taking things too far, but this is the internet, so that is always going to happen.

And dragging Edge's name through the mud based purely on your conjecture is not cool. They published their rumor in February. They must have been psychics to capitalize on the SimCity before it happened.

 

[Plinko]

Could someone explain to me why MS would be willing to block out the TONS of people
who don't have broadband connections from the ability of giving them money to play next gen games offline?

Like, a real good explanation as to why they wouldn't want as much money as possible from users of all types?

Sure.

Obviously, a move like this wouldn't be done without some research.

It all comes down to used games. I think an always online policy will be hand-in-hand with a lock out of used games. Perhaps they've looked at the percentage of people without internet access and figured out that the amount of money they'd save by locking them out altogether with the requirement of always online/lock out of used games surpasses the amount of money they'd save by having them all able to own the system AND play used games.

Remember--MS gets a cut of every game sold. Used games takes that away. And the used game market in this country is HUGE.

 

[ekim]

Why not? There are already PS3 games out in the wild that have a unique code on each disc (check out how Vita cross-buy works on disc games)....

This is news for me. I'll look it up.

 

[Bgamer90]

Don't bring reason into this thread. The pitchforks are out!

I just want a good explanation from a $ standpoint as to why they would require online for the console to function.

Still haven't seen any explanations...

Edit: Reading Plinko's post now.

 

[AgentP]

This only works if you require every single console to be online to run. Otherwise I install the game, give it to my friend who unplugs his cable, and we are both playing. Heck, you pass the thing around and 20-30 people all play the same copy.

At this point online required is not an option MS is going to entertain. If they wanted to go that route they likely would not have a disc drive at all. Instead delivering most games over the internet or with flash storage devices at point of sale.

The disc will need to be in the console to play, just like with PS4 and Wii U. The game will always run from the HDD but the disc will be validated anytime you try to play. This will give the digital download games an advantage, you don't need to disc swap to play them. It is a win-win for MS, it keeps people without internet happy and it gives their digital download platform a positive to tout.

I agree, I was just trying to flesh out the option if they do not require the disc to be inserted like Proelite is advocating.

Mandatory install to disk is a system selling feature.

No more disc switching when I want to play another game is something that I wished I had already.

 

[Dlacy13g]

Question, I see the image posted here and those in the VGLeaks article are for Visual Studio 2012. Is this the same source that leaked the Durango specs to VGLeaks that appeared to be dated from early 2012? If so, would some of this info change in over a years time? Not trying to down play anything just feels like its a bit of dated information to be hanging hats on this is how its gonna be.

 

[Reiko]

I really didn't think nothing could top Xbox 1.5 vitriol, but somehow, someway the Internet has found a way.

 

[YodaGoneMad]

See, this is what the problem is. You're saying "It is 100% false" when you have no proof. You're not an insider, or at least haven't made it clear that you are. You have no connection or reputation here on GAF as an insider. That statement is just as bad as all of those saying that it IS 100% true. See, we HAVE insiders with good reputations on here saying that it IS true. If it isn't, great--those insiders were wrong. But, for now, that's all we have.





Nope--EDGE was quite clear in both articles that always online was something required to run the console. Even the GAF insiders said the same thing.

I understand, I don't want to be known as anything on here. I have said my piece and come the official unveil it will be clear who had legitimate information.

Sorry, that was a lame Jeff Bell joke. Are you an insider or is this your speculation?

I don't want to claim to be anything.

 

[AgentP]

Question, I see the image posted here and those in the VGLeaks article are for Visual Studio 2012. Is this the same source that leaked the Durango specs to VGLeaks that appeared to be dated from early 2012? If so, would some of this info change in over a years time? Not trying to down play anything just feels like its a bit of dated information to be hanging hats on this is how its gonna be.

I'll quote myself.

The help page with the text is from Visual Studio 2012 which was released September 12, 2012. At the bottom (cut off) it references alpha and beta developer kits. This info clearly cannot be 13 months old.

I've seen references to beta kits shipping in Jan. The info cannot be more than 4-6 months old.

 

[Meier]

I am still keeping my fingers cross that they change course on the no used/whatever shit. If they pull it, I simply won't get an Xbox and will move to PS4 as my primary device (assuming they don't do the same.....).