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[farnham]

Sony and Microsoft are being successful. Nintendo got lucky this generation by being a fad product that was adopted by other markets not specifically made up of gamers.

They're trying this method again, and clearly its tanking.

Its MS and Sonys fault games sell on their systems so devs develop for them?

Give me a break.



Because they could make more money publishing games third party then they will supporting this disaster of a console?

Sony is succesful? S&P says otherwise

 

[metalslimer]

Between the latter half of the Wii and the beginning of the WiiUs life, its pretty clear that Nintendo is either going to go out of business or eventually go third party.

They need a radical strategy change to stay in the console market. They already fucked up the chance they had with the WiiU.

Calm down. Nintendo has billions of dollars and no debt. They are a decade at least from going out of business evem if wiiu completely fails.

 

[Aquamarine]

Between the latter half of the Wii and the beginning of the WiiUs life, its pretty clear that Nintendo is either going to go out of business or eventually go third party.

They need a radical strategy change to stay in the console chance. They already fucked up the chance they had with the WiiU.

No. Nintendo isn't even close to going out of business. That would require Nintendo to be bankrupt. And Nintendo has more than enough cash reserves and assets to last at least another 10 years under the worst-possible conditions (massive gouging operating losses).

Nintendo is trending on the path of exiting the non-portable home console industry. But that's all they're headed towards at the moment.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

All those games are nice, but only Pikmin 3 is a decent seller there.


Sure, but Nintendo has had years to get western development started which is why its not surprising they wouldnt even try. I never said i was a good idea.

Pikmin is very niche though, kids cant play it because its too complicated.

I loved the first one.

 

[NotLiquid]

Between the latter half of the Wii and the beginning of the WiiUs life, its pretty clear that Nintendo is either going to go out of business or eventually go third party.

They need a radical strategy change to stay in the console chance. They already fucked up the chance they had with the WiiU.

As bad as Wii U is doing right now I wouldn't go this far honestly. The 3DS is temporarily serving as a pretty good band-aid as far as sales go, and if that's the only thing that stays profitable chances are that they'll only go handheld exclusively as long as they still have their top sellers like Pokemon and Animal Crossing on there.

I honestly believe Nintendo are going to try one more console, quite possibly a handheld hybrid. If that one goes down the drain too though, then yeah I'd say they might just give up that market.

 

[Palette Swap]

No, they rely on Xbox Live subscriptions and other such levies in order to make up for the cash they lose by selling high tech consoles at a considerable loss, something Nintendo can't do.

Look at Sony, since the PS3 started making money 2 years ago, they've nowhere near made up for the deficit from the loss of dozens of millions of consoles sold at a loss.

People continually forget this. Sony and Microsoft are screwing the industry by selling consoles at a loss. They're screwing developers which is why so many have folded in the last 5 years due to development costs, and it's just going to get worse.

People need to stop demanding Nintendo follow suit

Hold on. Who told you this was some kind of charity?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

No, they rely on Xbox Live subscriptions and other such levies in order to make up for the cash they lose by selling high tech consoles at a considerable loss, something Nintendo can't do.

Look at Sony, since the PS3 started making money 2 years ago, they've nowhere near made up for the deficit from the loss of dozens of millions of consoles sold at a loss.

People continually forget this. Sony and Microsoft are screwing the industry by selling consoles at a loss. They're screwing developers which is why so many have folded in the last 5 years due to development costs, and it's just going to get worse.

People need to stop demanding Nintendo follow suit

This has to be a fucking joke. MS and Sony lost money because they are much more consumer friendly than Nintendo who overprice their old hardware. Putting high end tech and selling at a loss is being consumer friendly. For once Nintendo loses money on the WiiU. Kudos. Not to mention the horrible management of some games which led to studios bankruptcies. FYI a lot of indie developers flourished because of PSN and XBLA.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Nintendo is closer to becoming irrelevant than they are to going out of business. I think that's what you'll see in the coming years... they just won't matter except to an increasingly small segment of gamers.

 

[JoeM86]

How did things go?

I'm failing to see how Microsofts RRoD repair costs factors into where their revenue streams come from.

I was talking about making money at launch. I don't know why people shifted it to current revenue streams of legacy consoles

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Calm down. Nintendo has billions of dollars and no debt. They are a decade at least from going out of business evem if wiiu completely fails.

No. Nintendo isn't even close to going out of business. That would require Nintendo to be bankrupt. And Nintendo has more than enough cash reserves and assets to last at least another 10 years under the worst-possible conditions.

Nintendo is trending on the path of exiting the non-portable home console industry. But that's all they're headed towards at the moment.

Just because they have money doesnt mean anything. You really think shareholder will allow them 10 years of the worst possible conditions?

Shareholders will be the ones to push nintendo into third party publishing.

 

[liger05]

People continually forget this. Sony and Microsoft are screwing the industry by selling consoles at a loss. They're screwing developers which is why so many have folded in the last 5 years due to development costs, and it's just going to get worse.

Screwing the industry? Thats a massive reach!!

 

[metalslimer]

This has to be a fucking joke. MS and Sony lost money because they are much more consumer friendly than Nintendo who overprice their old hardware. Putting high end tech and selling at a loss is being consumer friendly. Not to mention the horrible management of some games which led to studios bankruptcies. FYI a lot of indie developers flourished because of PSN and XBLA.

Thats not consumer friendly. They just think they can be more sustainable and make more in the end that way. Stop thinking billion dollar corps really care about you

Shareholders will be the ones to push nintendo into third party publishing.

Yamauchi snd the board I believe holds majority share so no and you put going out of business as an option which is not happening

 

[farnham]

So having a console with less 3rd party support is better value then having a console with more 3rd party support?

Are you precluded to buy several platforms? And even if you are, the question is not third party games vs. No third party games but nintendo gakes vs. Third party games. Some people choose the former some choose the latter other buy both.

 

[Aquamarine]

Just because they have money doesnt mean anything. You really think shareholder will allow them 10 years of the worst possible conditions?

Shareholders will be the ones to push nintendo into third party publishing.

Well, the 3DS is dominating in Japan. I assume that the executives recognize this and will take it into account when considering the future of Nintendo...if the Wii U's prospects don't turn around and Iwata gets fired.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Yes they are, but not a considerable loss at all, unlike MS and Sony who were losing over $200 per console at launch. The Wii U is more powerful than the PS3 and 360, yes, but that's a standard now and has been for years

Well hey, Nintendo's strategy of being a generation behind everyone else is good for something! And, hey, they missed a trick by not selling the Wii U at a $200 loss; nobody could blame them for it because that's the standard now.

 

[JoeM86]

Hold on. Who told you this was some kind of charity?

Nobody. I'm just looking at it from a business standpoint

This has to be a fucking joke. MS and Sony lost money because they are much more consumer friendly than Nintendo who overprice their old hardware. Putting high end tech and selling at a loss is being consumer friendly. Not to mention the horrible management of some games which led to studios bankruptcies. FYI a lot of indie developers flourished because of PSN and XBLA.

Yeah. 60% failure rate is very user friendly

Well, the 3DS is dominating in Japan. I assume that the executives recognize this and will take it into account when considering the future of Nintendo...if the Wii U's prospects don't turn around and Iwata gets fired.

It's also doing well, albeit not amazingly outside of Japan, and that'll only increase with the release of Animal Crossing and Pokémon later this year

 

[Meelow]

Between the latter half of the Wii and the beginning of the WiiUs life, its pretty clear that Nintendo is either going to go out of business or eventually go third party.

They need a radical strategy change to stay in the console market. They already fucked up the chance they had with the WiiU.

Ahh...3DS?

 

[Alebrije]

Pikmin is very niche though, kids cant play it because its too complicated.

I loved the first one.

My 8 years old kid finished 1 and 2 without not problem , if you refer to 3-4 years old kids well maybe...but any game will be impossible at that age.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Well, the 3DS is dominating in Japan. I assume that the executives recognize this and will take it into account when considering the future of Nintendo...if the Wii U's prospects don't turn around and Iwata gets fired.

I was talking more about the Console market in particular.

I could see them staying in the handheld hardware market while going third party software on consoles.

They seem to always dominate the handheld market. Besides the fluke success of the wii things havent exactly been similar for their consoles for a while...

 

[farnham]

Just because they have money doesnt mean anything. You really think shareholder will allow them 10 years of the worst possible conditions?

Shareholders will be the ones to push nintendo into third party publishing.

If that happens nintendo has to pay a lot of money in license fees, gets a huge dent in software sales since ps360 gamers dont buy platformers, casual games and kart racers and does not get revenue from hardware and accessory sales. Nintendo has to do significantly worse than now or shareholders will not push them

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Thats not consumer friendly. They just think they can be more sustainable and make more in the end that way. Stop thinking billion dollar corps really care about you

I don´t think that for a second. But i do think when companies take a lot of losses on hardware, it´s the consumer who benefits from their pricing strategy.

 

[InsaneZero]

Just because they have money doesnt mean anything. You really think shareholder will allow them 10 years of the worst possible conditions?

Shareholders will be the ones to push nintendo into third party publishing.

The shareholders probably realize that a third-party publishing model is actually much riskier than the model they have now, as it encourages higher costs for pushing out titles for a much lower return.

 

[farnham]

I was talking more about the Console market in particular.

I could see them staying in the handheld hardware market while going third party software on consoles.

They seem to always dominate the handheld market. Besides the fluke success of the wii things havent exactly been similar for their consoles for a while...

Well then they would focus on handhelds and abandon the console business. why would they make games on other platforms? The margin on each game sold is different due to license fees to the platform holders that need to be paid as a third party publisher.

 

[Aquamarine]

I was talking more about the Console market in particular.

I could see them staying in the handheld hardware market while going third party software on consoles.

They seem to always dominate the handheld market. Besides the fluke success of the wii things havent exactly been similar for their consoles for a while...

If Nintendo does retreat to a handheld-exclusive hardware strategy...they're going to have all of their studios laser-focused on supporting the handheld.

There's no sense in fragmenting your development studios if you have a console you want to push...royalties from licensing a whole bunch of third-party games can be very profitable.

 

[liger05]

I was talking more about the Console market in particular.

I could see them staying in the handheld hardware market while going third party software on consoles.

They seem to always dominate the handheld market. Besides the fluke success of the wii things havent exactly been similar for their consoles for a while...

Not a chance they stay handheld and go 3rd party on home consoles. Nintendo are not going to mix it up like that.

 

[Blades64]

Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo. Pls get your stuff together!

 

[SmokedMeat]

Let's meet back here after E3 for a nice chat.

Also, it's going to be very difficult, if impossible, for Nintendo to reduce the price of Wii U, considering it's already selling at a loss. Their predicament is that the console is actually very, very good value technically, with nothing to show it off. Near-lagless, near-artifactless, 60fps streaming tech obviously isn't cheap, and the console is pretty powerful, in addition to hosting Wii hardware. But none of that matters to a consumer who, as of this moment, has very, very little reason to pull the trigger in terms of software incentives.

The console is a good value to whom? Consumers didn't ask for this streaming tech in a current gen level console, and it's showing by the tremendous lack of interest.

Obviously more Nintendo games and a lower price point will help, but not in the face of next generation hardware that will deliver in ways Nintendo is incapable of.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

If that happens nintendo has to pay a lot of money in license fees, gets a huge dent in software sales since ps360 gamers dont buy platformers, casual games and kart racers and does not get revenue from hardware and accessory sales. Nintendo has to do significantly worse than now or shareholders will not push them

Are you joking? Taking out the cost of producing and marketing hardware. Nintendo games would sell phenomenally on 360/Ps3. Thats not even considering the money that could be made from XBLA/PSN ports of retro titles.

There is major money to be made there.

 

[Baleoce]

I wonder what Ambassador games I am going to get when they rip the RRP to pieces?

The real reason I got it at launch xD Quite a gamble I know, but meh.

 

[Aquamarine]

The console is a good value to whom? Consumers didn't ask for this streaming tech in a current gen level console, and it's showing by the tremendous lack of interest.

Obviously more Nintendo games and a lower price point will help, but not in the face of next generation hardware that will deliver in ways Nintendo is incapable of.

I still feel like we need to wait until a year from now...when the Wii U has completed its first real holiday, Iwata is up to bat, and we can gauge early Durango + PS4 interest.........before sealing the fate of the Wii U.

Maybe Durango / PS4 won't cannibalize Wii U sales as much as we think they will? At the very least, that's what Iwata believes.

 

[Meelow]

Are you joking? Taking out the cost of producing and marketing hardware. Nintendo games would sell phenomenally on 360/Ps3. Thats not even considering the money that could be made from XBLA/PSN ports of retro titles.

There is major money to be made there.

Why does it seem like you want Nintendo to go third party?

 

[Wickerbasket]

I was talking about making money at launch. I don't know why people shifted it to current revenue streams of legacy consoles

It's because you keep switching between topics that you're talking about, and replying to the wrong things.

Your post:

No, they rely on Xbox Live subscriptions and other such levies in order to make up for the cash they lose by selling high tech consoles at a considerable loss, something Nintendo can't do.

Look at Sony, since the PS3 started making money 2 years ago, they've nowhere near made up for the deficit from the loss of dozens of millions of consoles sold at a loss.

People continually forget this. Sony and Microsoft are screwing the industry by selling consoles at a loss. They're screwing developers which is why so many have folded in the last 5 years due to development costs, and it's just going to get worse.

People need to stop demanding Nintendo follow suit

His reply:

Correct xbox live is one of MS revenue streams, buts its not the only one from there xbox division they get a cut on all games sales and make profit on the console itself and accessories.

The reason why some devs went bust is becuase there games didnt sell well enough how is this MS or sony's fault?

and next gen game engines creators and devs have said they can make a game expensive or as inexpensive as they like

a $10,000,000 or a $100,000,000 game next gen is going to look better then a game made this gen for the same cost.

Your reply:

They went bust because development costs were high so that required they had to sell really high amounts which usually isn't feasible.

Yes, MS are making profit on the console NOW, that's my point. When it came out, it didn't, and it didn't for years especially considering the amount of repairs and replacement consoles they had to issue to the RRoD issue.

It's amazing how people seem to forget how things went

And now for some reason your taking about making money at launch? Stop moving the goal posts.

Edit: No one was even saying anything about the fact that MS lost a ton of money through the RROD fiasco, because it's not really important in the discusssion.

 

[kinggroin]

It's basically a 360/PS3 console launched 6 years later, with the same old 1st party lineups and lousy online infrastructure. And 3rd party ports that are as far as 2 years ago. Such an appalling proposition.

The hell are you babbling about? If only!

 

[PhantomR]

Between the latter half of the Wii and the beginning of the WiiUs life, its pretty clear that Nintendo is either going to go out of business or eventually go third party.

I mean....you do know that Nintendo just reported a $120 million dollar quarterly profit, right?

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Do you want Nintendo to go third party?

No shit.

I love Nintendo games, always have. But Im sure as hell not throwing 300 euros at a sinking ship of a console just to wait for them to eventually be released.

 

[NotLiquid]

I still feel like we need to wait until a year from now...when the Wii U has completed its first real holiday, Iwata is up to bat, and we can gauge early Durango + PS4 interest.........before sealing the fate of the Wii U.

Maybe Durango / PS4 won't cannibalize Wii U sales as much as we think they will? At the very least, that's what Iwata believes.

I think it's safe to say that Durango and PS4 will be cannibalizing themselves depending on when they come out. Sony will probably want to launch in America as soon as possible, but Microsoft still remains king of the hill as far as that region is concerned.

It's possible that Wii U can steal some of that shared thunder depending on what big titles they have slated for the holidays.

 

[Keasar]

Nintendo has told MCV that it has a plan to stimulate Wii U’s performance in the UK. And that it will meet all its retail partners in the coming weeks to reveal its strategy.

Strategy is to release a couple of actually interesting games? I am still holding on a wad of money ready to buy a Wii U at a moments notice when Bayonetta 2/Monolith's X/any interesting game that isn't a port or remake is released.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

I mean....you do know that Nintendo just reported a $120 million dollar quarterly profit, right?

Again, Im talking about the console market.

Saying this is the equivalent of talking about Microsofts overall profits and attributing them solely to the 360.

 

[farnham]

Are you joking? Taking out the cost of producing and marketing hardware. Nintendo games would sell phenomenally on 360/Ps3. Thats not even considering the money that could be made from XBLA/PSN ports of retro titles.

There is major money to be made there.

There is no proof for this. There are indicators that this will not happen though. Games similar to mario kart sold abysmally, games similar to mario sold abysmally.

Games that sell well on those platforms are FPS and openworld games. Nintendo has little experience making those

No shit.

I love Nintendo games, always have. But Im sure as hell not throwing 300 euros at a sinking ship of a console just to wait for them to eventually be released.

Okay thank you for clarifying that. You are saying that you wish they went third party not that its a good idea from a standpoint of the company

 

[timetokill]

Are you joking? Taking out the cost of producing and marketing hardware. Nintendo games would sell phenomenally on 360/Ps3. Thats not even considering the money that could be made from XBLA/PSN ports of retro titles.

There is major money to be made there.

Less money than could be made making their own hardware and software for it exclusively, which is the whole point.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I mean....you do know that Nintendo just reported a $120 million dollar quarterly profit, right?

Currency gains.

 

[Meelow]

No shit.

I love Nintendo games, always have. But Im sure as hell not throwing 300 euros at a sinking ship of a console just to wait for them to eventually be released.

I understand how you feel, I love Halo and some of other Microsoft exclusives but I'm not going to pay about $400 for the 720 + Xbox Live fees, but that's my problem, that still doesn't make me want them to go third party, I'd love if Nintendo and Sony teamed up and make gaming hardware together and have all Nintendo and Sony exclusives on it so I don't have to buy two consoles but that's not going to happen.

And in my opinion calling the Wii U a sinking ship after 4 months is to early, you got to wait when games come and about a year to know were the Wii U will take place.

But that's my opinion.

 

[InsaneZero]

Are you joking? Taking out the cost of producing and marketing hardware. Nintendo games would sell phenomenally on 360/Ps3. Thats not even considering the money that could be made from XBLA/PSN ports of retro titles.

There is major money to be made there.

And a good amount of that money would go towards paying off licensing fees.

Just because the hardware doesn't generate profit doesn't mean that the hardware doesn't add to the total revenue earned.

 

[madmackem]

I thought pachters worst ceo jibe the other week was a bit crass, however when you sit down and think of what he has oversaw the past 12-18 months its been one mishap after the next. It does feel like nintendo need a fresh new person in the hot seat.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

There is no proof for this. There are indicators that this will not happen though. Games similar to mario kart sold abysmally, games similar to mario sold abysmally.

Games that sell well on those platforms are FPS and openworld games. Nintendo has little experience making those

And what? Games similar to Call of Duty sold abysmally? Actual Mario games would sell. Imagine playing Mario Kart on xbox live? With a halfway decent online infrastructure and huge install base these games might as well be printing money by selling on Ps3/360

 

[EulaCapra]

As much as I love Nintendo, this news makes me somehow happy because of their Wii U/3DS marketing and branding failures.

 

[axisofweevils]

Again, Im talking about the console market.

Saying this is the equivalent of talking about Microsofts overall profits and attributing them solely to the 360.

What other market is Nintendo in? They make consoles, they make games. That's it.

 

[AZ Greg]

Just matching the Gamecube's level of success, in terms of sales, is looking like it might be a best case scenario.

 

[ringwaldhaze]

What other market is Nintendo in? They make consoles, they make games. That's it.

Hanafuda.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

What other market is Nintendo in? They make consoles, they make games. That's it.

Home console market and Handheld console market.

Im clearly talking about home consoles.