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[XANDER CAGE]

Right. They should also let us play female athlets in every sport game. Oh, there are no mixed-gender teams in sport? And there are virtually no women in special force units? Who cares, this is discrimination!!1

The trailer for the game has a female special forces/whatever soldier right in it so I don't really see what your point is.

Balancing problems and hit box size is the real reason.

Also, all of you talking hitboxes and health penalties and whatnot - you know that a woman in full combat gear really isn't going to be radically smaller than a man, right? Some of you are acting like men are Elites and women are ODSTs or something.

 

[sleepykyo]

It'd be something like 60% or 70%, but even this will get get them called out as being sexist (making women weaker) by non-gamers. The only solution seems to be: slap long hair onto an existing model and record some lines spoken by a female VA.

Replace the female in the trailer with Chyna. Make the female skins as big as men.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Also, all of you talking hitboxes and health penalties and whatnot - you know that a woman in full combat gear really isn't going to be radically smaller than a man, right? Some of you are acting like men are Elites and women are ODSTs or something.

Pretty sure they were being sarcastic/trolling.

No one's going to seriously say idiotic things like that.

 

[Cartman86]

If you want to accuse DICE of being sexist, you'll have to explain Mirror's Edge first.

Full disclosure before detective-GAF kicks me: I work there.

Doubt anyone is actively trying to keep women out of the game because they hate them. More that they are in a position where they (or EA) don't care enough to put em in. Both would be a problem.

If you are trying to stay accurate to a time and place then yeah you may decide to not put woman in the game. Realism though seems silly considering the what Battlefield is. Even then I can only see the benefit of having different perspectives in games.

Uhhh, probably not. I think this is most likely going to be an issue with men who don't want to be shooting women, those who are anti-feminist tend to be the ones who want to keep women out of the military or at least the frontlines.

Besides, unless it's completely random it'd be allowing women who want to play as women do so, rather than forced to be a guy. And if it IS completely random then there's someone playing as that woman rather than just being a bot to shoot.

It probably doesn't really apply to this fictional story being told in the game, but there are feminists (I include myself as one) who consider the lifting of the ban on combat roles for women a double edged sword. It's a loss for anti-war feminism, but a win for gender equality. American militarism generally harms women and people of color let alone everyone. Again though it doesn't really apply to this game.

 

[synce]

One of the reasons I played MGO for as long as I did was the female soldiers. On top of customization it adds a lot of variety to the game. And yes they did have smaller hitboxes, big deal

 

[Sojgat]

Also, all of you talking hitboxes and health penalties and whatnot - you know that a woman in full combat gear really isn't going to be radically smaller than a man, right? Some of you are acting like men are Elites and women are ODSTs or something.

Exactly this. It's not like Battlefield is a massively stylised game like Gears of War, where the men all have hulking bodybuilder frames.

 

[Oersted]

Seems like a non-issue really...

This game skipping WiiU = threadworthy. This game not representing 50% of worlds population = non-issue. Prioties, how do they work?

 

[Alpende]

Who really cares? Shooting a dude or a woman in MP isn't going to make any difference.

 

[theSlacker]

It'd be something like 60% or 70%, but even this will get get them called out as being sexist (making women weaker) by non-gamers. The only solution seems to be: slap long hair onto an existing model and record some lines spoken by a female VA.

This is what I was going to say. I do believe that the reason for lack of female playable models in multilayer is because of laziness to balance, and how balancing could be viewed as sexist. Just slap long hair and a face on a model and then it looks cheap. Make it so the characters that are harder to hit can't run for as long/take less hits to kill and then you are sexist for making woman weaker.

Doesn't really give a reason for it to be that way in the single player portion of the game though.

Pretty sure they were being sarcastic/trolling.

No one's going to seriously say idiotic things like that.

I know I'm not being sarcastic or trolling. Not that I think it is a good reason, but it could still be the reason for it. The added work for what they consider a small return.

 

[Eusis]

maybe, judging by a first page google search



http://jiv.sagepub.com/content/27/15/3016.abstract

gonna increase the rape myth acceptance, bro.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/3/hagelin-video-game-violence-against-women/?page=all



http://mediareporttowomen.com/issues/311.htm

and in all the games scrutinized, men are abused equally, if not worse. there is a large segment of people who want to protect fictional women.

This makes me wonder about the games (without clicking the links yet) though. To me it seems the core of violence against women being bad is that it's violence against those weaker and unable to defend themselves (not that all women ARE this way, but more than men in most cases), which should apply just as well to the very elderly and very young. And look at that example, it's fighting with a PROSTITUTE in a GTA game, I doubt people really think of it the same way when facing a female opponent in a game out to defeat/kill them and equally capable of it as any of the male opponents.

It probably doesn't really apply to this fictional story being told in the game, but there are feminists (I include myself as one) who consider the lifting of the ban on combat roles for women a double edged sword. It's a loss for anti-war feminism, but a win for gender equality. American militarism generally harms women and people of color let alone everyone. Again though it doesn't really apply to this game.

True, but the real ideal there is to simply not have war anyway. Same for the draft, it seems fairest to either include both men and women when it comes up, or to not have a draft at all.

 

[Zeppelin]

Also, all of you talking hitboxes and health penalties and whatnot - you know that a woman in full combat gear really isn't going to be radically smaller than a man, right? Some of you are acting like men are Elites and women are ODSTs or something.

She is probably gonna be like 10 cm shorter.

But personally I find it hard to give a fuck.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I'm also trying to wrap my head around what this is supposed to mean:

"The geopolitics is more of a backdrop to what happens, it’s more [about] you and your group, and we chose to pick a man for it. It seemed to suit the story."

I mean, what?

 

[kevcampbell]

Haven't bothered to read through this whole thread, but are there people in this thread that are angry at that fact there will be no females in MP? and if there are i would just like to know why and what difference it would make if they did include females in MP

thanks

 

[Espada]

Replace the female in the trailer with Chyna. Make the female skins as big as men.

Exactly. You'll get complaints but it's definitely the better option of the two (in terms of balancing and marketing).

This is what I was going to say. I do believe that the reason for lack of female playable models in multilayer is because of laziness to balance, and how balancing could be viewed as sexist. Just slap long hair and a face on a model and then it looks cheap. Make it so the characters that are harder to hit can't run for as long/take less hits to kill and then you are sexist for making woman weaker.

Doesn't really give a reason for it to be that way in the single player portion of the game though.

I think sleepykyo's solution is the most likely in this situation. In MP these are nameless, facelss soldiers in armor where their appearance doesn't mean much. The voice alone will be enough, but the hair will seal the deal.

In the single player portion? I don't mind as it's so unimportant to the game.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Seems really sexist and stupid to not have playable female soldiers. I guess they don't want to upset the macho 14 year olds who this game is being marketed to

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Haven't bothered to read through this whole thread, but are there people in this thread that are angry at that fact there will be no females in MP? and if there are i would just like to know why and what difference it would make if they did include females in MP

thanks

I wouldn't say I'm "angry," but I'm definitely disappointed. Reasons:

1. Gender representation is cool
2. Why not?

I was willing to buy the "animation and rigging is extra work we can't do" excuse before, but now that there's an animated and rigged female soldier in the campaign trailer I'm definitely peeved.

 

[ExigentContact]

Exactly this. It's not like Battlefield is a massively stylised game like Gears of War, where the men all have hulking bodybuilder frames.

Hell, they even got more plausibly sized women working in that MP, romping around with the gigantic brute men.

 

[toastyToast]

It's not like all male soldiers are 6'6, 300lbs hulks. Just swap the heads. There are women over 5'1

 

[UrbanRats]

I wouldn't say I'm "angry," but I'm definitely disappointed. Reasons:

1. Gender representation is cool
2. Why not?

I was willing to buy the "animation and rigging is extra work we can't do" excuse before, but now that there's an animated and rigged female soldier in the campaign trailer I'm definitely peeved.

Assuming a lot here.
Maybe she steps on a mine as soon as that cutscene ends.

 

[TryHardShounen]

So if female soldiers are allowed to fight in the front lines now what about the whole rape and molestation issue if they are captured alive? And don't even try to raise the same question with male soldiers. While it is possible, it's a whole different issue when it comes to women.

 

[kevcampbell]

I wouldn't say I'm "angry," but I'm definitely disappointed. Reasons:

1. Gender representation is cool
2. Why not?

I was willing to buy the "animation and rigging is extra work we can't do" excuse before, but now that there's an animated and rigged female soldier in the campaign trailer I'm definitely peeved.

Personally I am not too bothered about no females in MP, so if females were in MP I would have been cool with it and vice versa but to answer why not, can't answer that one with a proper answer as I don't think there is one, but one thing is for sure, on the server side of things of MP maybe it was a good idea to prevent servers like 'FEMALE SOLDIERS ONLY, 200% TICKETS' and other servers with similar names/rules

 

[Zeppelin]

It's not like all male soldiers are 6'6, 300lbs hulks. Just swap the heads. There are women over 5'1

Not all women have long hair and a deep voice. Can't we just pretend that some of the men in the game are women?

 

[sleepykyo]

So if female soldiers are allowed to fight in the front lines now what about the whole rape and molestation issue if they are captured alive? And don't even try to raise the same question with male soldiers. While it is possible, it's a whole different issue when it comes to women.

What does that have to do with mp? If you're going for that angle at least make it what happens when the female skins get nude modded or how post kill tea-bagging is going to skyrocket.

 

[Nome]

Seems really sexist and stupid to not have playable female soldiers. I guess they don't want to upset the macho 14 year olds who this game is being marketed to

Well, yeah it's sexist. But it's not EA or DICE being sexist. Women don't have combat roles in a lot (most?) of militaries. Hell, they're not currently even currently integrated in the US military.

I don't really see an issue with there being no women in BF. Gaf created its own hype.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

So if female soldiers are allowed to fight in the front lines now what about the whole rape and molestation issue if they are captured alive? And don't even try to raise the same question with male soldiers. While it is possible, it's a whole different issue when it comes to women.

This is an actual point of debate that has been going on for quite some time in real life. This is a video game, though, where such things are not a problem.

Personally I am not too bothered about no females in MP, so if females were in MP I would have been cool with it and vice versa but to answer why not, can't answer that one with a proper answer as I don't think there is one, but one thing is for sure, on the server side of things of MP maybe it was a good idea to prevent servers like 'FEMALE SOLDIERS ONLY, 200% TICKETS' and other servers with similar names/rules

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[ScepticMatt]

The usual reason is that high quality animations cost a lot of memory, where current consoles are lacking. At least that's what they said about the cut holstering animations in Mass Effect 3.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Whats better than no females in battlefield 4 is the high probability of people complaining in this thread that dont even play battlefield or care. Its amazing how many people come out of the wood work to complain even when there is nothing to complain about.

There are no females in battlefield, deal with it. Smaller hitboxes aside, I really dont want to listen to women yelling "were taking it up the asshole" or "Im going to fuck you up"... it just takes away from the game to me.

Keep in mind I dont mind females in games, as Ive loved tomb raider since tomb raider 1, but really? Noone shit a brick when call of duty had no females, or any... other.. battlefield for that matter.

Do you guys just make shit up to start a storm? Im asking honestly, because no playable females in battlefield is REALLY not a big deal.

 

[Mudkips]

Yes.

Yup. Not sure if a serious question though.

Just for my own knowledge, does anybody know the ratio of men to women on the frontline units for the U.S. army?

What? Are you serious?

The US Army did not allow women to serve in front-line combat roles until extremely recently (a couple of months ago). The change has not yet been fully implemented.

This makes me wonder about the games (without clicking the links yet) though. To me it seems the core of violence against women being bad is that it's violence against those weaker and unable to defend themselves (not that all women ARE this way, but more than men in most cases), which should apply just as well to the very elderly and very young. And look at that example, it's fighting with a PROSTITUTE in a GTA game, I doubt people really think of it the same way when facing a female opponent in a game out to defeat/kill them and equally capable of it as any of the male opponents.

Have we already forgotten about the reaction to the Hitman vs. Assassin Nuns video?

 

[Phonomezer]

MP... does it really matter? Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Saying that, I don't see what the problem is including females in the MP. The more the merrier!

 

[GorillaJu]

When there is a binary option, many people choose to go with female. It may be something like a 70/30 male/female ratio, where the actual ratio is like 99/1. They probably want to protect the element of reality and grittiness, so are not having females.

 

[Eusis]

The usual reason is that high quality animations cost a lot of memory, where current consoles are lacking. At least that's what they said about the cut holstering animations in Mass Effect 3.

Ah, right, if they're still hitting 360 and PS3 that alone could kill it. Though unless Sony/Microsoft actively discourage developers from attributing it to hardware deficiency (... plausible) why dance around it? That's what makes it seem more like an issue with higher ups.

 

[toastyToast]

Not all women have long hair and a deep voice. Can't we just pretend that some of the men in the game are women?

In MP you'd barely be able to tell what you're looking at. All they'd need to do is record some female objective lines, maybe scale down the bodies about 15% and model some lady heads.

It's as complicated as they want to make it.

I'm indifferent but their inclusion would probably make some people happy. Happy enough to go from not wanting to buy Battlefield 4 to wanting to buy it I can't say.

 

[theSlacker]

I really dont want to listen to women yelling "were taking it up the asshole" or "Im going to fuck you up"... it just takes away from the game to me.

While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, not so much for this. I would rather just not hear that at all, so it really wouldn't mater if it is coming from a "female" player or not.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Whats better than no females in battlefield 4 is the high probability of people complaining in this thread that dont even play battlefield or care. Its amazing how many people come out of the wood work to complain even when there is nothing to complain about.

There are no females in battlefield, deal with it. Smaller hitboxes aside, I really dont want to listen to women yelling "were taking it up the asshole" or "Im going to fuck you up"... it just takes away from the game to me.

1. Women really wouldn't need smaller hitboxes in a game like Battlefield.
2. I'm sorry that women swearing bothers you.

Although to be fair, BF3's hilariously poorly acted swearing is pretty bad.

Keep in mind I dont mind females in games, as Ive loved tomb raider since tomb raider 1, but really? Noone shit a brick when call of duty had no females, or any... other.. battlefield for that matter.

Do you guys just make shit up to start a storm? Im asking honestly, because no playable females in battlefield is REALLY not a big deal.

It's not an earth-shattering FUCK THIS GAME big deal, but it's disappointing. It's worth talking about. A lot of people have been asking DICE for female characters, and what's more, female characters in games still get the short shrift when it comes to publisher approval. There's no reason for it and the sooner things balance out, the better.

When there is a binary option, many people choose to go with female. It may be something like a 70/30 male/female ratio, where the actual ratio is like 99/1. They probably want to protect the element of reality and grittiness, so are not having females.

Yeah, you're right, women are incapable of being "gritty" or something. What?

 

[ElfArmy177]

While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, not so much for this. I would rather just not hear that at all, so it really wouldn't mater if it is coming from a "female" player or not.

Agreed that it would be better without it, as there is enough trash talking through the mic anyways.

 

[Violet_0]

you just know everyone would play as a female soldiers

 

[kevcampbell]

This is an actual point of debate that has been going on for quite some time in real life. This is a video game, though, where such things are not a problem.



What on earth are you talking about?

not having females in MP could be a good thing from DICE/EA point of view to prevent servers like female only servers, would probably not have hurt BF4 at all to include female soldiers though i guess, so not sure why they decided not to have females in MP, maybe in BF5 haha

 

[XANDER CAGE]

not having females in MP could be a good thing from DICE/EA point of view to prevent servers like female only servers, would probably not have hurt BF4 at all to include female soldiers though i guess, so not sure why they decided not to have females in MP, maybe in BF5 haha

Again... what are you talking about. Female only servers? What? Has that been a problem ever in any other video game in history?

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

I could play as female in Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 in 1999. Hitbox issues are bullshit.

 

[BobbyRobby]

This makes me wonder about the games (without clicking the links yet) though. To me it seems the core of violence against women being bad is that it's violence against those weaker and unable to defend themselves (not that all women ARE this way, but more than men in most cases), which should apply just as well to the very elderly and very young. And look at that example, it's fighting with a PROSTITUTE in a GTA game, I doubt people really think of it the same way when facing a female opponent in a game out to defeat/kill them and equally capable of it as any of the male opponents.

eh, i don't see the point in making distinctions. they are all just ones and zeroes. who cares if they are babies, women, innocent, or guilty. it just seems like a really superficial issue. to give it so much credence just makes people needlessly feel like victims.

it's funny that the video game community almost unanimously accepts that jack thompson is full of shit for saying playing violent games causes violent behavior, but such a large segment of this board thinks that unfavorable portrayal of women will cause real life sexism. it's unreal.

remember that people used to try to ban pornography too. they said it caused men to rape girls, but the opposite has been shown.

people gotta stop trying to censor each other and focus on real issues.

 

[Charoncaori]

Whats better than no females in battlefield 4 is the high probability of people complaining in this thread that dont even play battlefield or care. Its amazing how many people come out of the wood work to complain even when there is nothing to complain about.

There are no females in battlefield, deal with it. Smaller hitboxes aside, I really dont want to listen to women yelling "were taking it up the asshole" or "Im going to fuck you up"... it just takes away from the game to me.

Keep in mind I dont mind females in games, as Ive loved tomb raider since tomb raider 1, but really? Noone shit a brick when call of duty had no females, or any... other.. battlefield for that matter.

Do you guys just make shit up to start a storm? Im asking honestly, because no playable females in battlefield is REALLY not a big deal.

You don't mind girls in games as long as you don't have to listen to them? The fuck is this shit.

 

[kevcampbell]

Again... what are you talking about. Female only servers? What? Has that been a problem ever in any other video game in history?

not that i know of, but i mean with user created servers, loads of BF4 fans could get angry similar to how some fans get angry over things like 500% ticket servers and servers that have rules like no C4, no shotguns, and other annoying rules and maybe EA/DICE want to prevent that, female only servers would not bother me, i would just look for a different server if i wanted to but that is why it may not have hurt BF4 at all to include females in MP anyway

 

[Sojgat]

The real reason is probably some EA suits arguing it can't happen because COD hasn't done it yet. When MW4 has female soldiers Battlefield will be all over it.

 

[ElfArmy177]

1. Women really wouldn't need smaller hitboxes in a game like Battlefield.
2. I'm sorry that women swearing bothers you.

Although to be fair, BF3's hilariously poorly acted swearing is pretty bad.



It's not an earth-shattering FUCK THIS GAME big deal, but it's disappointing. It's worth talking about. A lot of people have been asking DICE for female characters, and what's more, female characters in games still get the short shrift when it comes to publisher approval. There's no reason for it and the sooner things balance out, the better.



Yeah, you're right, women are incapable of being "gritty" or something. What?

Im not saying they are incapable of anything, the "gritty" at the end of tomb raider was well done IMO. However battlefield swearing is already terrible as you mentioned, I just feel like adding a female voice to it would be extra laughable.

I understand the reason for female players in MMO's and such, but in a military shooter? Whats the reason for it?

EA makes an excuse to charge extra for everything, and personally anything that requires them to take extra time with models/voice over/animation ect is just not worth their time or even needed for that matter.

Im sure there a few female gamers that play battlefield, or hell even call of duty. I have put countless hours into both games and I have heard a female over the mic... once. The market is males, period. They will cater to males and cut budget corners any way possible. (Im ok with this)

Hell, they wont even put a female on the cover of games because they are afraid it will remove potential buyers... you really think battlefield is gonna spend money to include then in the game?

 

[HolyBaikal]

I don't play first person shooters really. Not a favourite genre of mine.

But things like this are scaring me away even more. At least I'm remotely interested in Mirror's Edge despite my dislike for the genre.

Considering my poor addiction to buying games on Steam sales, even if I don't like them, I might have had to poor sense to buy something like this if it had some proper female representation.

But I guess they don't want a single cent of my money. Thank you for not tempting me to buy games in genres I don't like on Steam!

 

[XANDER CAGE]

The real reason is probably some EA suits arguing it can't happen because COD hasn't done it yet. When MW4 has female soldiers Battlefield will be all over it.

So never. Great.

 

[BLAZER]

To be honest you can just tell what the gaming community would do/come up with, with a female soldier. If I were DICE I'd do the same thing. They know what will happen. So do we as a gaming community.

Sad but true, people are immature.

 

[ElfArmy177]

You don't mind girls in games as long as you don't have to listen to them? The fuck is this shit.

What are you even talking about? Did you see the part that I loved the tomb raider series... she talks in that. Need a youtube video?

 

[kevcampbell]

To be honest you can just tell what the gaming community would do/come up with, with a female soldier. If I were DICE I'd do the same thing. They know what will happen. So do we as a gaming community.

Sad but true, people are immature.

this

 

[Kiryu]

G.I.R.L.