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[Chittagong]

If they are two separate games, how come the trailer for PHANTOM PAIN was full of footage from GROUND ZEROES...?

 

[Salaadin]

Do we have Japanese voiced footage of The Phantom Pain gameplay yesterday?
Do we have an English voiced Ground Zeroes trailer from last year?

Im asking because, as far as I know, we dont have either. So how do we know that Akio Otsuka is playing hospital dude from The Phantom Pain when weve only seen him as Snake in Ground Zeroes?
Unless theres a JP version that I havent seen yet.

 

[The Omega Man]

Something to note about Japanese VAs though is that they often play multiple people even in similar roles. For example, the VA for Goku (Masako Nozawa) played him as a child, as a teenager, and as an adult. He also played Goku's son Gohan as a child, teenager, and adult, Goten in the same stages, etc etc etc.

It's not beyond any stretch of the imagination that the same VA for Solid Snake/Big Boss would also play any BB clones/doppelgangers.

Hayter voiced Snake and Big Boss in many different stages of their lives and and at different ages, people should stop grasping for straws and accept that Hayter was given the old boot.

 

[Superior]

Nvm.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Something to note about Japanese VAs though is that they often play multiple people even in similar roles. For example, the VA for Goku (Masako Nozawa) played him as a child, as a teenager, and as an adult. He also played Goku's son Gohan as a child, teenager, and adult, Goten in the same stages, etc etc etc.

It's not beyond any stretch of the imagination that the same VA for Solid Snake/Big Boss would also play any BB clones/doppelgangers.

In MGS4 Akio Otsuka wasn't playing both roles. He was Snake as usual and his father, Chikao Otsuka (also a VA) was playing Big Boss...

 

[Wario64]

If they are two separate games, how come the trailer for PHANTOM PAIN was full of footage from GROUND ZEROES...?

I don't believe it's 2 separate games. Kojima already said Ground Zeroes is a prologue. And like you said, GZ footage is in Phantom Pain trailer. It's just gonna be like MGS2 tanker/plant

 

[Graphics Horse]

Yeah it's a bit early to go fully grey but it does happen. He should be half way between MGS3 and MGS1, ~20 years each way.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Yes, I think there's definitely a third person with them. Even the way the camera moves during this scene makes me think that we are seeing it from the eyes of the third person.
Maybe Chico they rescued ? Or someone else.
The bandaged guy can be Chico (or that guy they rescued), since nine years have passed, he probably grew...

But somehow I have the feeling that we do not play as the real Big Boss...
The guy with the missing arm, with Big Boss' face, has no scar shaped as a snake on his chest.
Kojima, wouldn't ignore this important detail, as the scar is also present in Peace Walker.
(http://www.playscope.com/Wskins/ski...2screens/thephantompain_vga12screens_0012.jpg)
(Peace Walker : http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/XB4S4qn-cAA/mqdefault.jpg)
Maybe I'm stretching this a bit and the scar is there but maybe that's why we only see him most of the time from the back or crawling.

Ishmael is Big Boss, maybe trying to hide or escape something, by switching identity.
hence making the other one, the phantom.
The phantom pain making reference to the pain of losing his arm and the pain of being someone else.
I'm thinking a kind of Kagemusha story.
Two phantoms are born : the real big boss who by hiding becomes a ghost and the decoy who's big boss' shadow/phantom.

Ishmael :
The name has come to symbolize orphans, exiles, and social outcasts[28] — in the opening paragraph of Moby-Dick, Ishmael tells the reader that he has turned to the sea out of a feeling of alienation from human society. In the last line of the book, Ishmael also refers to himself symbolically as an orphan, which maintains the Biblical connection and emphasizes the representation of outcasts.

Big boss being the outcast.

And, I don't think the kid (Mantis ?) is fucking with Snake, but maybe helping him escape, as the whale attacks the helicopter, which probably is bringing reinforcements for whoever is attacking the hospital, hence creating a diversion for Snake to escape. Plus who seems to be Ocelot helps him.
Plus, maybe, all these hallucinations about Volgin, the burning Raikov, etc... Is mantis fucking with the fake big boss head to make him believe he really is Big Boss.
The petals and everything is part of Big Boss' memory after all.

There is definately a third person rescued, Kazuhira Miller, after BIg Boss got stabilized (but fell in coma), asks: " What about him ?" And the camera pulls back to his bed (maybe seeing through his eyes). Having both the bandaged man and Big Boss using the same voixe (Kiefer Sutherland) is weird. Perhapd we are playing inside the bandaged man's dream and not Big Boss one ? I guess the bandaged man is

Spoiler

PSYCHO MANTIS. In the prologue aka Ground Zeroes, Big Boss will be rescuing children in cages who were used to run experiments on them giving them special powers and using them to fight, hence the taboo theme of children soldiers. Chico was one of them and maybe the young outcast Psycho Mantis aka Ishmael. Big Boss may have saved him from Omega Camp but a terrible accident happened to those three, Big Boss lost his arm and Young Psycho Mantis got disfigured. Both fell in coma for years. Psycho Mantis got older and now he is displaying a vison to BIg Boss: His real body (now adult) is interacting ahelping Big Boss while his infant vengeful body as kid is trying to kill them both, hence the puny body of hil in MGS1 (due to falling in coma and having abnormal growth, the hate to show/see his faith because he was disfigured and the pyrokenisis and telekenisis he got from Omega Camp experiments which he developed while in coma. We are having here the situation of how Obito was saved by Madara and the Dead Zone coma/ability case. The old man riding the horse with Big Boss may be Psycho Mantis' father. He sees him in the vision too and tries to explain to Big Boss why he abondend his child. That's why we see young vengeful Mantis trying to kill them.

. I hope I just didn't spoil the whole surprise if it proves to be true. Most of the time my assumptions are true especially with MGS games. That's why my cousin - a die-hard- fan of the series hates me.

 

[mountainduwe]

the biggest thing i'm curious to see is, what exactly is responsible for putting the greatest soldier of all time in a 9 year coma?

Child soldiers, is my guess. Big Boss can't bring himself to kill kids and they put him in a coma.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

'Separate' projects are in fact two parts of one game, though may be distributed differently: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/398347/konami-offers-new-clarification-on-ground-zeroes-phantom-pain-and-mgs5/

This is so ridiculous. I really hope they clarify what is going on at E3. I want to know distribution and console availability. What consoles this game appears on, and when, will greatly influence my choice to purchase next-gen at launch. If MGSV and Infamous will both be PS4 launch window, then I'll be lining up at midnight for that sucker. If it's gonna be over a year for either the decision gets much more difficult, complicated even further by HOW MUCH of MGSV will be available when.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I thought it was pretty obvious that Mother Base's explosion is what put BB in his coma.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Here's a great way to tell if Ishmael is

Spoiler

Psycho Mantis

... Does Ishmael talk like Ren and/or Peter Lorre?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I can't believe they did this to Hayter man.

 

[Mit-]

Is there any proof at all of Ishmael and Big Boss having the same voice actor in the Phantom Pain footage? They don't sound similar to me.

And the crazy disfigured guy looks like a burned up version of Psycho Mantis, before some kind of reconstructive surgery/skin grafts. All the scarring from Psycho Mantis matches the heavily disfigured portions of the character. I'm guessing everyone's already made this connection though and is moving on to all these young Mantis theories.

I figured it was just a hallucination.

 

[TGO]

I dont think that 3rd guy is Ishmael either.

The idea that we play as someone other than Big Boss makes sense when you think about it.

Theres a 3rd guy in that hospital. We are viewing the scene from their perspective which implies that we are playing as them. Big Boss and Miller are next to him so that means hes not either of them.

Assuming mystery 3rd guy also slips into a coma, then that means the playable character at the start of TPP is not Big Boss. Maybe some random dude injured at the end of GZ is brought in with Big Boss and, to protect Big Boss, they perform facial reconstruction on him to resemble Big Boss and throw off the enemy. Thats why his face is still bandaged up. Hes been out 9 years but the surgery might be recent.

I just dont know what to think.

I was thinking that too, probably Ishmael has had surgery too hence the bandages, don't know
But I'm gonna take in account that PW was set in 1974 so GZ must be set around 1978 possibly, which sets TPP at 1987 (a year before Raiden was sent to war as a Child by Solidus)
The clones(Snake/Liquid/Solidus) were born 1972
Gnome dna cloning started in 1986 too
Frank (Gray Fox) should be in this too, he saved Naomi in 1979
Snake & Liquid would be teenagers, maybe older if they had accelerated ageing
Could be a Clone dont know just throwing some stuff out there lol

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

Disappointed it's an open-world game. Still, if they fix the wonky controls/camera in the series, it may be worth trying.

I think "Open Level" would be a better way to describe it.

His face looks 40ish which is ok, but the hair is too white, although he always had kind of a white hair so...

This is the MGS universe; where white/silver hair is a pretty common thing: Gray Fox, Raiden, Olga, Sunny, etc.

 

[mountainduwe]

This is going to cause so much confusion.

Metal Gear Solid V is one package. It sounds like it will be one game, but reps are probably confused and saying all types of contradictory shit.

If this is two games then so is Metal Gear Solid 2?

However, I suppose if "The Phantom Pain" opens up with a tutorial, it wouldn't make too much sense if it took place after Ground Zeroes. You probably wouldn't need a tutorial at that point. Although you wouldn't need a tutorial even if you played Ground Zeroes in a separate package, either.

I feel like they're just calling it a tutorial to dodge complaints about that portion of the game not being "open-world," despite them shouting open-world from the top of every mountain they can when referring to MGSV.

Nothing is ever simple with Kojima, man. Is it one game, or two games? Is it current-gen or next-gen? Why does he have a horn on his head? gggaaaahhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Defuser]

Considering Ishmael injected Big Boss with drugs I don't think Ishmael is a hallucination.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Is there any proof at all of Ishmael and Big Boss having the same voice actor in the Phantom Pain footage? They don't sound similar to me.

And the crazy disfigured guy looks like a burned up version of Psycho Mantis, before some kind of reconstructive surgery/skin grafts. All the scarring from Psycho Mantis matches the heavily disfigured portions of the character. I'm guessing everyone's already made this connection though and is moving on to all these young Mantis theories.

I figured it was just a hallucination.

You aren't alone. I totally agree with you. Read my previous post.

 

[Mit-]

Nothing is ever simple with Kojima, man. Is it one game, or two games? Is it current-gen or next-gen? Why does he have a horn on his head? gggaaaahhhhhhhhhhh

Yeah seriously wtf was that rock doing lodged in his head like that.

 

[Vamphuntr]

I don't believe it's 2 separate games. Kojima already said Ground Zeroes is a prologue. And like you said, GZ footage is in Phantom Pain trailer. It's just gonna be like MGS2 tanker/plant

Yeah and I doubt Kojima would show you the end to GZ in a Phantom Pain trailer if it was a separate game. Your base gets blown up by XOF and you end up in a coma.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I don't think the kid (Mantis ?) is fucking with Snake, but maybe helping him escape, as the whale attacks the helicopter, which probably is bringing reinforcements for whoever is attacking the hospital, hence creating a diversion for Snake to escape.
The petals and everything is part of Big Boss' memory after all.

Mantis is not helping him on the face of it, rather he represents another faction who is pursuing Big Boss. BB is firing a gun at his fiery horse so they aren't the best of friends.
Mantis attacks the XOF looking troops and the helicopter, which is the same design as the XOF choppers.
Whether someone is REALLY helping him I would save for the plot twists.

 

[Ferrio]

Considering Ishmael injected Big Boss with drugs I don't think Ishmael is a hallucination.

It still could be, I mean look at Fight Club.

 

[The Omega Man]

I think "Open Level" would be a better way to describe

What if Kojima pulls a Mega Man, and you start the game in a main hub and you can choose what "stage" and Bosses to tackle first, all dialogs, difficulty and weird easter eggs will depend of the order you choose to play the stages. I am calling it!

 

[jacksepticeye]

Considering Ishmael injected Big Boss with drugs I don't think Ishmael is a hallucination.

Or Ishmael is just his mind telling him to cop on and wake up before he dies. Notice how he suddenly disappears after the Ambulance crash and horse riding sequence

 

[starbunny64]

I'm guessing this Ground Zeroes/Phantom Pain stuff is just like Virtuous Mission/Operation Snake Eater in MGS3 but made much more explicit.

I also want to know what the deal is with the "XOF" stuff - my own assumption if that its either a FOX decoy with its own fake Mother Base/Outer Heaven or a FOX rival.

 

[Mit-]

I think "Open Level" would be a better way to describe it.

I'm kind of wholly expecting this game to be like Peace Walker, only in Africa, and that they'll consider that "open-world." It will just be choosing different locations to travel to, and there will be a couple different options available that ultimately end up at the same story checkpoints. Someone at Konami probably heard Grand Theft Auto V was coming out, and demanded they start using the "open-world" buzzword in all their marketing of this game.

 

[Killing_Joke]

Trailer is soooo good! Need my MGS fix so bad.

Trailer is so full of mind fuck. Can't wait.

No Hayter IS BULLSHIT. Fuck the haters. The new voice sounded awful and generic. Didn't fit at all. Hopefully they're just trolling...They have to be... In terms of story it makes NO sense to replace Hayter for Ground Zeroes.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

I've listened to "Not Your Kind of People" about a million times over the last 24 hours, haha.

 

[Dick Justice]

Trailer is soooo good! Need my MGS fix so bad.

Trailer is so full of mind fuck. Can't wait.

No Hayter IS BULLSHIT. Fuck the haters. The new voice sounded awful and generic. Didn't fit at all. Hopefully they're just trolling...They have to be... In terms of story it makes NO sense to replace Hayter for Ground Zeroes.

We don't know the story yet, though. But yeah, I'm gonna miss Hayter if he's gone.

 

[Salaadin]

I've listened to "Not Your Kind of People" about a million times over the last 24 hours, haha.

Im about *this* close to buying the album.

 

[Mit-]

Or Ishmael is just his mind telling him to cop on and wake up before he dies. Notice how he suddenly disappears after the Ambulance crash and horse riding sequence

Now there's an explanation for how Ishmael could be the same person. Thank you. I'm gonna have to go watch all of that again.

No Hayter IS BULLSHIT. Fuck the haters. The new voice sounded awful and generic. Didn't fit at all. Hopefully they're just trolling...They have to be... In terms of story it makes NO sense to replace Hayter for Ground Zeroes.

There aren't really enough people out there to qualify a group of "haters" existing, and it does kind of make sense, because his voice does change eventually between this point and MGS4. There's no better time to switch his voice over to an older voice than after a 9 year coma and the beginning of the Solid Snake era.

 

[Graphics Horse]

What if Kojima pulls a Mega Man, and you start the game in a main hub and you can choose what "stage" and Bosses to tackle first, all dialogs, difficulty and weird easter eggs will depend of the order you choose to play the stages. I am calling it!

I doubt it, it would be nice if there are multiple main missions you can choose from but I'm not sure they'll even do that. Going by the portable games I'd expect one main mission path and a bunch of side missions unlocking alongside.

 

[Itchy//Tasty]

There is definately a third person rescued, Kazuhira Miller, after BIg Boss got stabilized (but fell in coma), asks: " What about him ?" And the camera pulls back to his bed (maybe seeing through his eyes). Having both the bandaged man and Big Boss using the same voixe (Kiefer Sutherland) is weird. Perhapd we are playing inside the bandaged man's dream and not Big Boss one ? I guess the bandaged man is

Spoiler

PSYCHO MANTIS. In the prologue aka Ground Zeroes, Big Boss will be rescuing children in cages who were used to run experiments on them giving them special powers and using them to fight, hence the taboo theme of children soldiers. Chico was one of them and maybe the young outcast Psycho Mantis aka Ishmael. Big Boss may have saved him from Omega Camp but a terrible accident happened to those three, Big Boss lost his arm and Young Psycho Mantis got disfigured. Both fell in coma for years. Psycho Mantis got older and now he is displaying a vison to BIg Boss: His real body (now adult) is interacting ahelping Big Boss while his infant vengeful body as kid is trying to kill them both, hence the puny body of hil in MGS1 (due to falling in coma and having abnormal growth, the hate to show/see his faith because he was disfigured and the pyrokenisis and telekenisis he got from Omega Camp experiments which he developed while in coma. We are having here the situation of how Obito was saved by Madara and the Dead Zone coma/ability case. The old man riding the horse with Big Boss may be Psycho Mantis' father. He sees him in the vision too and tries to explain to Big Boss why he abondend his child. That's why we see young vengeful Mantis trying to kill them.

. I hope I just didn't spoil the whole surprise if it proves to be true. Most of the time my assumptions are true especially with MGS games. That's why my cousin - a die-hard- fan of the series hates me.

This post mystifies me. Psycho Mantis is just the little kid in the gas mask with the long sleeves. The older guy on the horse is very, very clearly Ocelot, with the same spurs, face and clothes he wears in MGS1. Chico is South American and his father died in combat, Mantis grew up in a Russian village which he burned down when he saw his father's hatred for him. A Russian guy wouldn't have a voice like Keifer.

As per the norm for MGS games, wires are getting crossed all over the place with this one.

 

[Salaadin]

I was thinking that too, probably Ishmael has had surgery too hence the bandages, don't know
But I'm gonna take in account that PW was set in 1974 so GZ must be set around 1978 possibly, which sets TPP at 1987 (a year before Raiden was sent to war as a Child by Solidus)
The clones(Snake/Liquid/Solidus) were born 1972
Gnome dna cloning started in 1986 too
Frank (Gray Fox) should be in this too, he saved Naomi in 1979
Snake & Liquid would be teenagers, maybe older if they had accelerated ageing
Could be a Clone dont know just throwing some stuff out there lol

Im in the camp that Ishmael is a hallucination of fake Snake in the hospital.

I hate jumping to the conspiracy side of thing but the way the trailer plays out and the voice changes, etc just makes me think that we arent playing as Snake in TPP.

 

[Raiden]

Considering Ishmael injected Big Boss with drugs I don't think Ishmael is a hallucination.

They do not help at all. And Ismael even makes a comment "drugs not working?". It actually is a clue to Ismael being imaginary.


I think.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

OK the blatant inconsistencies or "Retcons" are finally starting to bother me. It was one thing to Retcon the MG1 & MG2, but that was a different era of gaming all together. The MGS series being all in the era of cinematic 3D gaming though, makes me frustrated with Kojima's inability to keep his damn story straight. I mean we've come full circle in the series now, and so much of it just doesn't line up anymore... even with how things were explained in MGS4... C'mon! You just got done explaining TONS of shit in MGS4 and you're already pissing on that.

What new info has been released that's retconing more stuff? I thought little to no story info was revealed?

Edit: wait your refering to the fact he's in a coma for 9years? How is this a retcon? It could be possible, we don't know enough about big boss during this time period to say for sure.

 

[Dick Justice]

Wonder if this is Big Boss when Diamond Dogs is formed. Different hairstyle and updated combat fatigues. You can see a shotgun hanging from his front, just like in the Ground Zeroes trailer. Never noticed that before. Probably didn't have the prosthetic arm here to avoid spoilers.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Wonder if this is Big Boss when Diamond Dogs is formed. Different hairstyle and updated combat fatigues. You can see a shotgun hanging from his front, just like in the Ground Zeroes trailer. Never noticed that before. Probably didn't have the prosthetic arm here to avoid spoilers.

It is either just an early model or his appearance will change through the game,he does have an eye patch which is clear in the other early photo. It has the potential to be set over a number of years but who knows at this point. You can also see a knife handle (?) on the right of his backpack which matches the Ground Zeroes setup.

Obviously we've just been shown Big Boss after Diamond Dogs was formed and he doesn't look like that, yet.

 

[sflufan]

You can see a shotgun hanging from his front, just like in the Ground Zeroes trailer.

That's a Kalashnikov, not a shotgun P

 

[Dick Justice]

That's a Kalashnikov, not a shotgun P

I dunno, it's hard to tell because it's fairly obscured. Could be, could not be.

Anyway, I just hope they lower the focus on camouflage, and make enemy reinforcements as fearsome as they were in 2, where you were essentially fucked on higher difficulties if you got surrounded by infinitely-respawning guards with body armor and shields.

 

[Keslord]

From the Metal Gear Solid wiki:

In the English versions of both Metal Gear Solid and The Twin Snakes, it was stated that Big Boss was in a coma when they commenced the project.

This would put Ground Zeroes at 1971 at latest, because of Les Enfants Terribles creating and giving birth to the clones in 1972.

This is further supported by another quote from the Wiki:

Zero briefly discussed the Twin Snakes with Kazuhira Miller in late 1974, after the latter asked about news on the "sons."

This would put The Phantom Pain in 1980. Judging by Big Boss's muscular atrophy, it would take a while to rebuild his body to the level it was at the end of the trailer. Years, possibly.

Peace Walker happened in 1974, in which he was 39 in. Seeing how Chico is in the trailer, as with Mother Base and Kaz this makes no fucking sense. Something is up.



Also, for anyone who needs it, here's a timeline of the early 1980s in no specific order than can help with discussions for MG:

In the early 1980s in the Metal Gear timeline, the following events happened (not in order):

• Jack (Raiden) is born.
• Solidus Snake kills Jack's (Raiden's) parents and adopts him. Solidus trains Jack as a child soldier.
• Big Boss establishes the mercenary nation-state and fortress of Outer Heaven in South Africa.
• VR training is researched and developed.
• Meryl Silverburgh is born as the result of an illicit extramarital affair between her mother and her brother-in-law, Roy Campbell.
• Huey Emmerich's son is born, named Hal Emmerich.
• More that can be found here

 

[Imm0rt4l]

.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

This post mystifies me. Psycho Mantis is just the little kid in the gas mask with the long sleeves. The older guy on the horse is very, very clearly Ocelot, with the same spurs, face and clothes he wears in MGS1. Chico is South American and his father died in combat, Mantis grew up in a Russian village which he burned down when he saw his father's hatred for him. A Russian guy wouldn't have a voice like Keifer.

As per the norm for MGS games, wires are getting crossed all over the place with this one.

Then why would Ocelot look older in MGS5 than Big Boss with grey hair while Big Boss didn't get any? Big Boss in MGS3 was like 30 years old whike Ocelot 18. Ocelot is russian so is his father The Sorrow with the special powers. Psycho Mantis may be related to him. I think in Omega Camp, they are abducting children frol allover the world, who are prone to special powers, sth like X-Men or Mutant X or whatever.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Big Boss in the Diamond Dogs gear with the cigar and Harley is probably after everything else considering he appears to have a bionic hand.

 

[MattyH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBo_EJ00G9A


sorry if a repost

 

[Hamlet Machine]

Then why would Ocelot look older in MGS5 than Big Boss with grey hair while Big Boss didn't get any? Big Boss in MGS3 was like 30 years old whike Ocelot 18. Ocelot is russian so is his father The Sorrow with the special powers. Psycho Mantis may be related to him. I think in Omega Camp, they are abducting children frol allover the world, who are prone to special powers, sth like X-Men or Mutant X or whatever.

I don't think he looks older than big boss, plus, young ocelot has gray hair.

 

[TGO]

Im in the camp that Ishmael is a hallucination of fake Snake in the hospital.

I hate jumping to the conspiracy side of thing but the way the trailer plays out and the voice changes, etc just makes me think that we arent playing as Snake in TPP.

Yeah Ishmael could be a self projection "hence the bandages"
And FOX vs XOF could be a clue too, I mean Diamond Dogs too was never reference in BB history and BB didn't have a mental horn in MG either or any sign of scaring in MGS4. I don't know

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Wonder if this is Big Boss when Diamond Dogs is formed. Different hairstyle and updated combat fatigues. You can see a shotgun hanging from his front, just like in the Ground Zeroes trailer. Never noticed that before. Probably didn't have the prosthetic arm here to avoid spoilers.

Yea, there are some posts from a few years ago that pretty much nailed that it was big boss in some project ogre pics. They were juxtaposed to some shinkawa art that had the same hairstyle and clothing.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Big Boss in the Diamond Dogs gear with the cigar and Harley is probably after everything else considering he appears to have a bionic hand.

Absolutely. Peace Walker began with him on a motor bike and I could see this scene as the *final* intro before the meat of the game, as it coincides with the v.o.