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Metal Gear Solid V announced (PS360, open world)
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
Also looks like a prosthetic arm with a hook on the end
I posted this on the previous page:
I think the good vs. evil projection thing also ties well with FOX vs. XOF
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
V has come to.
Looks like both are using the same prosthetic arm tech, though being the opposite hand. Would be cool if that cigar is lit-up using the lighter embedded in the arm.
polishcowboyst
Neo Member
Does anyone think that Ishmael could be Frank Jaeger?
He doesn't appear in PW but he definitely joined BB in PO.
And while I was looking, I just found this image of him. It would be him in 1995, but the bandages still got me thinking.
Also, I found this on the wiki under "Post-San Hieronymo and FOXHOUND"
"Frank later participated in the Mozambican Civil War, this time as a soldier for the RENAMO. During one of his missions, he was captured by FRELIMO soldiers and heavily tortured, having his nose and ears cut off. He was rescued a few days later by none other than Big Boss."
And
Post-Outer Heaven
"Sometime after the destruction of Outer Heaven, Fox deserted the FOXHOUND unit and disappeared along with Big Boss (who was presumed dead after his battle with Snake). Around this time, because of his loyalty to Big Boss and also because of his earlier disgust for America's rejection of asylum for Gustava, Fox followed him and helped in the formation of Zanzibar Land by becoming an active participant of the Mercenary War. After his success in the war, he was assigned as commander of Zanzibar Land's Mercenary Force, also known as the "Dogs of War.""
He doesn't appear in PW but he definitely joined BB in PO.
And while I was looking, I just found this image of him. It would be him in 1995, but the bandages still got me thinking.
Also, I found this on the wiki under "Post-San Hieronymo and FOXHOUND"
"Frank later participated in the Mozambican Civil War, this time as a soldier for the RENAMO. During one of his missions, he was captured by FRELIMO soldiers and heavily tortured, having his nose and ears cut off. He was rescued a few days later by none other than Big Boss."
And
Post-Outer Heaven
"Sometime after the destruction of Outer Heaven, Fox deserted the FOXHOUND unit and disappeared along with Big Boss (who was presumed dead after his battle with Snake). Around this time, because of his loyalty to Big Boss and also because of his earlier disgust for America's rejection of asylum for Gustava, Fox followed him and helped in the formation of Zanzibar Land by becoming an active participant of the Mercenary War. After his success in the war, he was assigned as commander of Zanzibar Land's Mercenary Force, also known as the "Dogs of War.""
polishcowboyst
Neo Member
Also,
"In 1980, Big Boss took Frank and his "sister" to the United States. Afterwards, Frank and Big Boss returned to Africa to continue fighting a war, leaving her behind in America."
If BB did this in 1980, he couldn't have been in a coma. He must have gotten in the coma after this time. which would put him waking up in about 1989 or 1990 at the earliest.
"In 1980, Big Boss took Frank and his "sister" to the United States. Afterwards, Frank and Big Boss returned to Africa to continue fighting a war, leaving her behind in America."
If BB did this in 1980, he couldn't have been in a coma. He must have gotten in the coma after this time. which would put him waking up in about 1989 or 1990 at the earliest.
Dick Justice
Banned
Retcon.
It has been discussed and its definitely a good theory. Some retconning will have to happen to make it so but retconning isnt really new to Kojima so anything is possible.
Going only by what we know and assuming there will be no Gray Fox retconning, I have to wonder why Frank Jaegar would be watching over Big Boss for 9 years and still be in the hospital bandaged up. It sorta makes sense for Big Boss to have his horn covered but, other than that, he has no other bandages or marks of any kind. Ishmael has his entire face covered and some of his arm so his injuries would have to be pretty recent. Theres also a pretty clear nose bulge under those bandages though we can form many arguments as to why he still has a nose:
By that same token, if Ishmael is a Psycho Mantis illusion, "watching for 9 years" seems a bit much. Mantis was born in 1970, Phantom Pain is ~1983 so Mantis will be 12 or 13. If he was watching for 9 years, he would have to have started when he was only 4. Unless hes speaking not for himself but for the people he is working for.
Theres also the issue where we are basing most of our theories on Ground Zeroes being 1974 (after PW) and Phantom Pain being 1983 (9 years later). We dont know if there are any other time skips in the game. Ground Zeroes might have a time bump of its own that would push the timeline around where suddenly out theories either make more sense or no sense at all.
polishcowboyst
Neo Member
Yeah, was thinking about that too. Its hard to find a timeline in BB's history that he isn't doing anything for 9 years.
Also, if Frank is having face reconstruction surgery, those bandages would make sense.
Good point about Frank being there for 9 years. I guess he would have to have a reason to be there for 9 years if he says he has been watching over him for that long. But then again, how could anyone be a patient for 9 years?
I tend to believe that Ishmael is a real guy, rather than a hallucination. But I am starting to wonder because he is in the car with BB when it crashes but you can't see him at all when BB is climbing out. Is he just gone at that point?
keltickennedy
Member
I think that is a ponytail and not the bandana. They explain at the end of Peace Walker why Big Boss stops wearing it. Awesome moment. I hope he keeps it off.
Someone mentioned importing your save to visit a memorial for your actual fallen MSF crew. That would be amazing.
keltickennedy
Member
Pyrrhus
Member
Alligator was a slacker. But I'll never forget the sacrifice Palm Civet made for us all.
Yeah that would be nice!
keltickennedy
Member
At the start. But I built him up to be badass.
I'm really hoping that Ground Zeroes brings over that awesome stuff from Peace Walker. Base management, R&D extra ops, etc. I noticed from the first gameplay video, they seem to be keeping the same sight and aiming mechanics from Peace Walker, which is awesome.
polishcowboyst
Neo Member
I was checking the MG Wiki and I am trying to piece together some dates. This is what I found:
The only time where at least 9 years fits between BB's involvement in anything where an actual year is given is 1977-1989.
These are the events:
1977- Big Boss rescues Frank Jaeger from a FRELIMO prison camp in Mozambique.
1989- Big Boss covertly resumes command of FOXHOUND.
However, there are some events that include him in the 1980s that do not have a specific year. Here they are:
198X- Big Boss battles in various African civil wars.
198X- Big Boss meets Frank Jaeger's adopted sister in Mozambique, and brings them both to America. The young girl eventually takes the name of Naomi Hunter.
198X- Big Boss falls into a coma, awaking around 1989 before resuming command of FOXHOUND and establishing Outer Heaven.
198X- Big Boss establishes the mercenary nation-state and fortress of Outer Heaven in South Africa.
The only time where at least 9 years fits between BB's involvement in anything where an actual year is given is 1977-1989.
These are the events:
1977- Big Boss rescues Frank Jaeger from a FRELIMO prison camp in Mozambique.
1989- Big Boss covertly resumes command of FOXHOUND.
However, there are some events that include him in the 1980s that do not have a specific year. Here they are:
198X- Big Boss battles in various African civil wars.
198X- Big Boss meets Frank Jaeger's adopted sister in Mozambique, and brings them both to America. The young girl eventually takes the name of Naomi Hunter.
198X- Big Boss falls into a coma, awaking around 1989 before resuming command of FOXHOUND and establishing Outer Heaven.
198X- Big Boss establishes the mercenary nation-state and fortress of Outer Heaven in South Africa.
1980/81 for the first two, 1989ish for the last two? They could easily push some of thsoe dates around if they want though. It's not like much else in the franchise really lines up perfectly anyway.
MGSV could also just be a stealth reboot, which would be... interesting to say the least.
Yeah, facial reconstruction is one possibility. He looks to have a defined nose in MG1 and MG2 so something like that isnt out of the question.
About Frank being there for 9 years, "watching over" might not mean "sitting in the hospital waiting". His quote sounds like hes saying that he was personally watching over him but maybe hes simply referring to the group his assoicated with. We know Miller is there when Big Boss goes under, we know Ishmael is there when he wakes up, and we know the Ocelot guy is there to help rescue him. Maybe theyre all working under the same group and they were all watching over him for 9 years...whether that be in the hospital directly or somewhere close by.
Frank could be a recent patient but was still watching over Big Boss when he wasnt. He also knows something is up right away as hes more than ready to get Big Boss out of there once he wakes up. Makes sense for a soldier like Gray Fox to be on the top of their game and ready to go despite any injuries they have.
Im split on where I stand regarding Ishmael. The way the beginning plays out, it feels to me like a Fight Club-esque scenario where its all in the head of Big Boss. My brain wants to think that its a Mantis projection that is either leading Big Boss to danger or away from it. Later, we see Ishmael driving the car which makes me think hes a real dude...BUT then the car crashes after Big Boss interferes, which drives me back to the "Ishmael is fake" side of things. Big Boss then gets out of the car and whos right there waiting for him but Psycho Mantis.
I just dont know what to think. It could play out either way.
Oh man :lol
Ishmael is Skunk
pants
Member
I still think you guys are making a mistake taking the 9 year gap as a given. Is there any visual evidence of anyone aging about 9 years? Older Chico? Anything?
Like what was proposed by me and others before, the 9 year gap could just be a way for snake's captors to trick him into divulging information or something.
I loved that one of my highest rated soldiers was a woman i got to 9999/9999 code named WOODCOCK
Like what was proposed by me and others before, the 9 year gap could just be a way for snake's captors to trick him into divulging information or something.
I loved that one of my highest rated soldiers was a woman i got to 9999/9999 code named WOODCOCK
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Chico was shown in Ground Zeroes trailer. That is 9 years before Phantom Pain.
"Now it's my turn to protect you, Boss" -Chico in TPP
Graphics Horse
Member
Yes, they told us it was 9 years later in the interview, and no, 'kojima always lies' is not proof of a contradicting theory.
The doctor says 9 years
Ishmael says 9 years
Theyre either both lying or theyre working together to make Big Boss think hes been out that long. For the sake of my own sanity, Im just going to assume that the 9 year thing is true.
pants
Member
Did they actually show Chico 9 years older or anyone for that matter is my point (Ocelot is nebulous for many reasons, but the most simple is they do not actually show progression of age) . At this point I'm looking at this from all angles and taking nothing as gospel. Snake they had in a medical facility for X amount of time and advanced aging isnt exactly new to metal gear.
Putting this inside the theory that Ishmael is a phantom/projection/imaginary friend, it would serve whomever's purpose to ape this/could be boss telling himself this since he heard it from the doctor. The doctor is the only independent source we have telling us 9 years have passed, and who knows if that is truth or trickery?
Graphics Horse
Member
It could all be a dream. We might only find out it was a dream 3 sequels down the line.
But to me that would be a pointless thing to theorise about. It just won't go anywhere without some evidence.
If you want some fanfic fodder, have BB secretly awoken during his coma and sent on missions to fit whatever things that fit the timeline, before the thing in his head neuralizes him back into his coma.
angular graphics
Banned
LOL!
Yes. The Patriots were formed at the end of Portable Ops. Between that and Peace Walker, Big Boss had a fallout with Zero and left. The cloning of the Snakes already took place.
If Ishmael is actually just a projection of Snake's mind, he couldn't possibly know anything that Snake doesn't, right? So if Snake believes that the 9-year tidbit is true, so would Ishmael. I think... My head hurts.
pants
Member
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. In the state big boss is in when he wakes, he has no real way to verify the accuracy of 9 years passing until he meets up with an independent friendly (which is shown briefly sans any clue giving dialogue)
Sweet, thanks!
Yep, I agree. I think it's more likely that the "9 years" thing is a ruse than Kojima forcing himself to re-arrange the chronological order of a significant part of the Metal Gear canon. But who knows...
That reminds me, I wish they would update the Metal Gear Solid Database PS3 app. Is there any chance that'll happen?
pants
Member
Maybe day and date with the new metal gear there could be an update/new DB. I don't see him doing it before then and having hordes of fans sift through any tiny change for clues :lol
Well maybe, if he wants to plant some false information/teases to get bloggers/gaming press talking =P
Speedwagon
Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel. Yabuki turned off voice chat in Mario Kart races. True artists of their time.
Hideo Kojima said:
For those that didn't watch the end of the Kojima Interview. I think this is a valuable statement.
pants
Member
Really wouldn't mind hub + mission style like PW. Taking contracts and executing it in a metal gear sandbox would be fantastic
Ocelot is kind of nebulous because they never show him progressing in age, he could very well be much younger than we think (if it is indeed him, which I think it is). Mantis is the most direct counter to my theory, honestly haven't worked out how he can exist at that age in it (if it is indeed him).
Could possibly be a relative of Mantis or someone that went though the same events/training as him. (If he's mantis he shouldn't really be wearing the mask yet).
From last year, posting again: http://www.vg247.com/2012/09/27/metal_gear_solid_ground_zeroes_interview_kojima_talks_open_worlds/
Its supposed to be open world across a few areas but Im hoping it doesnt follow the tradtional open world approach where you have a minimap with a dozen colored icons on it to let you know where your next missions are. Im hoping for a more dynamic approach...just something to make it different and to set it apart from whats already out there.
pants
Member
The reason my hope sounded so familiar was that I was in fact reiterating that what has been said in that interview is really, really what I want.
@Salaadin, I edited in some PM speculation to the post above.
Thank God. I LOVED the base building, and micromanagement of your soldiers and gear in PW. I hope they go further with it this time around. I'd love the weapon crafting to be much deeper, and outer-ops to be much deeper. I'd be ever better if you could take part in them as well.
Cannot wait! I hope this is good! I don't know how they plan to deliver on all these fronts, they will have to make some sacrifices.
Yeah, it would be cool to combine the weapon researching from PW with the gun customization of MGS4
Im just going to assume that theyll simply make Mantis wear the mask earlier than we were originally told in the same way that Big Boss started wearing the eye patch early. Part of the reason for the mask was to hide his face, wasnt it? They can always tweak the story some to say that he wore it occasionally (to prevent thoughts from entering his mind) until he was injured...where it become a more permanent thing for him. I dont know. Something like that is easily changed as its not major.
Regarding Ocelot, I dont know. You are correct in what you say so I guess the only thing left to do is wait...and see. Knowing how things have gone in the past, we can speculate all we want and we both will end up being wrong.
polishcowboyst
Neo Member
I hate that every mission in PW is a separate entity. I hope there is nothing like being able to go back and redo missions. That takes so much away from the continuity of the game. I don't like that special items are in a location during one mission and not there during another. I like looking in every corner for items like that, but having new items in the same location is completely redundant.
Does anyone else feel that way?
Does anyone else feel that way?
pants
Member
I suspect we're all going to be wrong at the end of the day, but half the fun here is just trying to get your mind into that crazy Hideo Kojima mode lol