Support NeoGAF

[Ding-Ding]

Not sure why every publication is putting quotes around racist.
Despicable comments.

Unfortunately their are still people in the world that think if you mention the words "controlled immigration" it automatically means racist or bigot.

The 2005 general election here was outrageous as "racist" accusations were widely used to stop people talking about the subject

 

[BGBW]

Wow. This news may cause a rift amongst my parent's group of friends.

 

[PJV3]

Unfortunately their are still people in the world that think if you mention the words "controlled immigration" it automatically means racist or bigot.

The 2005 general election here was outrageous as "racist" accusations were widely used to stop people talking about the subject

People, the media and politicians talk about it all the bloody time, Nothing might get "done" about it, but that's a different thing.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Have you got a link as that does sound a bit of to me.

I would have thought it would have been the same as a normal session, even if it is Thatcher Day (Close your eyes Kingston)

This is a "special" session of parliament, the MP's are being recalled from their holiday for this debate. That means MP's holidaying in the Algarve can claim expenses for having to fly back early to attend this session.

I believe the last time Parliament was recalled (the Riots) it cost the tax payer £43,000 extra in expenses claims.

On another point I reckon I know what the front page of the Daily Mail will be now. It will be a huge picture of the Labour side of the chamber with the headline "SHAMELESS REDS SHOW TRUE COLOURS" Then it will somehow blame the poor for the Labour MP's not turning up and it is digsusting that the poor have a £99 Bush flat screen TV with which to watch the "debate" on.

 

[Ding-Ding]

This is a "special" session of parliament, the MP's are being recalled from their holiday for this debate. That means MP's holidaying in the Algarve can claim expenses for having to fly back early to attend this session.

I believe the last time Parliament was recalled (the Riots) it cost the tax payer £43,000 extra in expenses claims.

On another point I reckon I know what the front page of the Daily Mail will be now. It will be a huge picture of the Labour side of the chamber with the headline "SHAMELESS REDS SHOW TRUE COLOURS" Then it will somehow blame the poor for the Labour MP's not turning up and it is digsusting that the poor have a £99 Bush flat screen TV with which to watch the "debate" on.

Yeah, holiday recall just didn't compute at the time.

Also, as a conservative voter myself, can I just say I wouldn't wipe my arse with that paper. Its political lines are somewhere between UKIP & the BNP

 

[fizzelopeguss]

This is a "special" session of parliament, the MP's are being recalled from their holiday for this debate. That means MP's holidaying in the Algarve can claim expenses for having to fly back early to attend this session.

I believe the last time Parliament was recalled (the Riots) it cost the tax payer £43,000 extra in expenses claims.

On another point I reckon I know what the front page of the Daily Mail will be now. It will be a huge picture of the Labour side of the chamber with the headline "SHAMELESS REDS SHOW TRUE COLOURS" Then it will somehow blame the poor for the Labour MP's not turning up and it is digsusting that the poor have a £99 Bush flat screen TV with which to watch the "debate" on.

To the upper crust and neolibs she may as well be the virgin mary. They will not be denied their chance to venerate. And if there's riots along or near the procession they'll fucking love it, they'll wank themselves dry inside their ivory towers.

 

[Acorn]

To the upper crust and neolibs she may as well be the virgin mary. They will not be denied their chance to venerate. And if there's riots along or near the procession they'll fucking love it, they'll wank themselves dry inside their ivory towers.

I reallllly hope there isn't, it'll be used as political ammo for months. No doubt someone in such a protest would be found to be A)In receipt of benefits b)Been arrested c)an Immigrant or for a grand prize all 3 by the daily mail and it would run,run,run.

 

[SKINNER!]

I'm not sure why it's considered a revelation. We knew years ago.

...She [Thatcher] made clear, however, that she had "less objection to refugees such as Rhodesians, Poles and Hungarians, since they could more easily be assimilated into British society".

How...classy.

Also, kudos to that Australian Foreign Minister for bringing it up again instead of keeping his mouth shut. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was told to do that.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I still think that depends on the motivations of the monopoly. In practice, though, we've seen monopoly as a bad thing in practice in both the private and state sectors, so I guess avoiding it makes sense.

But again, I think so much of the time what we had in the 70's wasn't about a government monopoly - often, the various nationalised "companies" were not enacting the will of the government, they were enacting the will of their union members. The government weren't controlling them. So it's not really about regulation this or government control that - the monopoly in many of these industries was not the government, but the union. And whilst government monopolies can be altered by a democratic shift (ie losing an election), the unions couldn't.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Also, kudos to that Australian Foreign Minister for bringing it up again instead of keeping his mouth shut. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was told to do that.

Yeah, just after she died, how tremendously brave of him.

 

[Ding-Ding]

To the upper crust and neolibs she may as well be the virgin mary. They will not be denied their chance to venerate. And if there's riots along or near the procession they'll fucking love it, they'll wank themselves dry inside their ivory towers.

Do you really believe that because if you do then you stand for everything thats wrong in this country.

After reading that nonsense, I shouldn't be surprised why some people want to celebrated Thatchers death. As you quite clearly have no respect for anyone. I can even imagine you despise the person you look at in the mirror each morning.

As someone, like so many people, who has buried a loved one. I would hope that Thatcher's funeral goes without a single hitch. As we have all been that Son or Daughter or Grandchild, mourning a heavy heart.

And if you cant see that, then this country is truly lost.

 

[PJV3]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4169557.stm

Can't stand the hypocrisy sometimes, this fucker better stay in the background.

Thought it was an air ambulance, twat, should be in clink not parading about London.

 

[WARCOCK]

Yeah, just after she died, how tremendously brave of him.

Actually look at it this way, i think it's more honorable than attacking an old and frail woman nearing her death whose been retired for a long time. He spared her the humiliation and effort of rebuke.

 

[Arksy]

Yeah, just after she died, how tremendously brave of him.

Bob Carr has become a joke. He was an incredibly well respected NSW premier who retired about 8-10 years ago. They brought him back in to the Australian Senate to replace Kevin Rudd and bring some credibility to the failing government. He's basically just been bumbling around as the Foreign Minister since. He was once viewed as a great, and still has some of that zeal in him, such is his respect in the Labor party caucus that he forced the PM to back down and order an abstention on the Palastinian vote. This however, is just sniping.

He was my one time political hero.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8&feature=youtu.be

 

[CyclopsRock]

Actually look at it this way, i think it's more honorable than attacking an old and frail woman nearing her death whose been retired for a long time. He spared her the humiliation and effort of rebuke.

Better to wait until she's unable to entirely? I mean I got no problem with him saying it to be honest, but doing it a few days after she died? Seems a bit weird.

Besides, I think the idea that people from certain countries are better able to assimilate into another given culture easier than others isn't exactly mind blowing stuff, nor anything most people would disagree with.

 

[PJV3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8&feature=youtu.be

That Tory MP is a prick, glad the speaker told him what parliament is for.

 

[WARCOCK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8&feature=youtu.be

That was amazing. thanks.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Better to wait until she's unable to entirely? I mean I got no problem with him saying it to be honest, but doing it a few days after she died? Seems a bit weird.

Not really that weird. If he has meet her once, he probably wanted to wait till she died as he feared he would lose the other testicle

 

[Arksy]

That Tory MP is a prick, glad the speaker told him what parliament is for.

I wish our speaker wasn't a corrupt scumbag and knew what his duties and obligations were. Sigh.

 

[PJV3]

I wish our speaker wasn't a corrupt scumbag and knew what his duties and obligations were. Sigh.

He gets a lot of stick from the Tory side (even though he is one) but he's fair and usually does his job with humour.

 

[Acorn]

Well it is called a 'debate' perhaps the members of the house should be permitted to debate. Whether you like something or not doesn't come into it.

 

[kitch9]

Unfortunately their are still people in the world that think if you mention the words "controlled immigration" it automatically means racist or bigot.

The 2005 general election here was outrageous as "racist" accusations were widely used to stop people talking about the subject

I'm glad you posted that I was struggling to see the actual racism in what she said, thought I was going nuts or something.

Or is having concerns over uncontrolled immigration racist by default now? God help us if so. Worlds gone mad.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Sorry if posted

FOREIGN SECRETARY William Hague has insisted Britain's taxpayers "can afford" to contribute millions to Margaret Thatcher's funeral costs.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/margaret-thatcher/52417/margaret-thatcher-funeral-taxpayer-william-hague

 

[danwarb]

I'm glad you posted that I was struggling to see the actual racism in what she said, thought I was going nuts or something.

Or is having concerns over uncontrolled immigration racist by default now? God help us if so. Worlds gone mad.

If you single out any particular race it is, like in the quote from the telegraph article further up.

 

[kitch9]

Sorry if posted



http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/margaret-thatcher/52417/margaret-thatcher-funeral-taxpayer-william-hague

I always find these costs a little disingenuous as it includes paying the likes of police and soldiers who would have been paid regardless.

 

[kitch9]

If you single out any particular race it is, like in the quote from the telegraph article further up.

Read the article, she singled out a particular occasion that was generating a large amount of refugees who were looking to come to the UK via the British colony of Hong Kong.

Saying that it was 1979 the majority of the UK was racist as fuck back then, just like pretty much everywhere else.

 

[Ding-Ding]

If you single out any particular race it is, like in the quote from the telegraph article further up.

What happens when the majority of immigration comes from a particular region, such as the influx from India & Pakistan, such as it was during Thatchers time.

What would you call people from the continent of Asia?

Also, as people from Eastern Europe are our most recent source of immigration. Does that make European a racist word?.

 

[danwarb]

What happens when the majority of immigration comes from a particular region, such as the influx from India & Pakistan, such as it was during Thatchers time.

What would you call people from the continent of Asia?

Also, as people from Eastern Europe are our most recent source of immigration. Does that make European a racist word?.

...She [Thatcher] made clear, however, that she had "less objection to refugees such as Rhodesians, Poles and Hungarians, since they could more easily be assimilated into British society".

If there are less objectionable refugees, and you're discriminating by race, is that racism?

 

[SmokyDave]

If you single out any particular race it is, like in the quote from the telegraph article further up.

I'd say you need to assess whether people are being singled out because of their race, or their culture.

Either way, it's probably best left alone for this topic.

 

[iapetus]

But again, I think so much of the time what we had in the 70's wasn't about a government monopoly - often, the various nationalised "companies" were not enacting the will of the government, they were enacting the will of their union members. The government weren't controlling them.

Which is a problem, but again it's not a sign that government monopolies couldn't work. It's a sign as you say that we didn't really have a government monopoly. It's also a sign of why the unions' power needed breaking, from a left or right leaning position.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

She's like the Reagan of the UK. I think it tells a lot about a person when they say they liked either of those two people or try and justify the terrible things they did during their political runs.

Alan Moore's hatred for Thatcher's right wing politics inspiredV For Vendetta, so that's interesting.

Alan Moore also wrote this:.

 

[Ding-Ding]

...She [Thatcher] made clear, however, that she had "less objection to refugees such as Rhodesians, Poles and Hungarians, since they could more easily be assimilated into British society".

If there are less objectionable refugees, and you're discriminating by race, is that racism?

It would be easier to integrate them nations. 2 European countries with christianity as its most dominant religion and Rhodesia which had English as its official language.

Both India & Pakistan has neither. In the case of India, there are so many different languages & religions it would have seemed like mission impossible back then.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

It would be easier to integrate them nations. 2 European countries with christianity as its most dominant religion and Rhodesia which had English as its official language.

Both India & Pakistan has neither. In the case of India, there are so many different languages & religions it would have seemed like mission impossible back then.

According to that quote she was talking about refugees not immigrants. You can't deny refugees based on their race, that is wrong on so many levels.

 

[kitch9]

...She [Thatcher] made clear, however, that she had "less objection to refugees such as Rhodesians, Poles and Hungarians, since they could more easily be assimilated into British society".

If there are less objectionable refugees, and you're discriminating by race, is that racism?

In 1979 an influx of non english speaking Vietnamese would have caused a shit load of problems amongst the indiginous mostly racist UK population of the time.

She was correct to voice concerns, however you want to spin it.

 

[kitch9]

According to that quote she was talking about refugees not immigrants. You can't deny refugees based on their race, that is wrong on so many levels.

1979, and they were turning up at Hong Kong, which was british and moving on from there. The move from Hong Kong to the UK was being questioned.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

Probably been posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XDtClJYJBj8

 

[Ding-Ding]

According to that quote she was talking about refugees not immigrants. You can't deny refugees based on their race, that is wrong on so many levels.

Not being funny but she probably was concerned regarding non-white integration. It doesn't mean she was racist. This country had been going under a radical social change since large scale immigration in the 50's.

The police as we know was institutionally racist causing havok with the abuse of "sus laws".

African-Caribbean communities pissed off with the police and also pissed as they were left to rot for 30 years. They were ready to riot at a moments notice.

Then on top of that, large sections of the white community (yep our fathers and our grandfathers) were closet racists. Some were not so shy about it,

Race tensions were sky high. With the way things were after the race riots, stoping further cultural immigration was probably a bloody good idea.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

I'm not surprised by the general antipathy surrounding her death. A lot of it has to do with the odious culture of the British Conservative Party at the time, and as the figurehead, she has received the brunt of the lashing. Personally, the most damning stuff is members of her party calling for Nelson Mandela's execution while he was in Robben Island. Of course, she came to the right position on apartheid eventually, and did ultimately help end the regime - whether or not you believe her opposition of tough sanctions helped or hindered (or had to do with family business interests in the nation) - but there were quite a few years of ambivalence before that. I can only imagine if I were Chilean. She really did keep some poor company.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Probably been posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XDtClJYJBj8

She sounds drunk.

 

[Chichikov]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8&feature=youtu.be

I'll say, English Nancy Pelosi > American Nancy Pelosi.

That was spectacular.

 

[PJV3]

She sounds drunk.

Stressed, if you can hear other MPs then it's 10x worse in the house, a bit intimidating.

The microphone system cuts out a lot of the noise.

 

[Duffyside]

American, so I can't offer much insight. But I do feel compelled to share. This is one of the most brilliant insights I've ever heard. Perfectly illustrates one of the worst problems with the left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c

 

[WARCOCK]

I'll say, English Nancy Pelosi > American Nancy Pelosi.

That was spectacular.

This lady won two academy awards and two emmys, it kind of makes sense in hindsight as to why she is so theatrical and eloquent. I gotta say i'm pretty flabbergasted. I'm in love.

 

[iapetus]

American, so I can't offer much insight. But I do feel compelled to share. This is one of the most brilliant insights I've ever heard. Perfectly illustrates one of the worst problems with the left.

By standard UK measures, child poverty (the first poverty figures I have access to) went from 1.9m (14%) to 3.9m (31%). But hey, Thatcher was great for the poor, and not agreeing with that is a sign of everything that's bad with the left.

 

[jorma]

American, so I can't offer much insight. But I do feel compelled to share. This is one of the most brilliant insights I've ever heard. Perfectly illustrates one of the worst problems with the left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c

Yeah, she had a sharp tounge. But after a while most people realised that trickle down economics actually didn't work that way and came to our senses.

 

[Theonik]

Probably been posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=XDtClJYJBj8

I love this part right here.

 

[Ding-Ding]

By standard UK measures, child poverty (the first poverty figures I have access to) went from 1.9m (14%) to 3.9m (31%). But hey, Thatcher was great for the poor, and not agreeing with that is a sign of everything that's bad with the left

Yes the number of children in poverty went up. Thing is, that number has never really come down, even after Labours attempt to simply chuck benefit around. That didn't raise people above the poverty line, it just inched them a bit closer to it

The real socialist way before Thatcher was to raise everyone above the poverty line by giving out state jobs. To pay for it was to take the majority of wealth from another family, so everyone had the same quality of life that was only just above the poverty line. So everyones life was crap

However, to keep the system in balance, jobs were basically hereditary. Doesn't matter what aspiration a child has, you were expected to follow your fathers into a pit mine, office job, dock worker etc

 

[Wiseblade]

American, so I can't offer much insight. But I do feel compelled to share. This is one of the most brilliant insights I've ever heard. Perfectly illustrates one of the worst problems with the left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c

Do people actually believe this? Complaining about an elite class hoarding wealth doesn't mean that you'd rather have everyone suffer. That just sounds like a super lazy argument.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Do people actually believe this? Complaining about an elite class hoarding wealth doesn't mean that you'd rather have everyone suffer. That just sounds like a super lazy argument.

You'd be amazed at how prevalent of an idea "socialism means you want everyone to be poor and have nothing!" is.