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Margaret Thatcher has died

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Ding-Ding said:
Get ready for a backlash then because apparently you are not allowed to have a different opinion here.

Sounds an alot like places like Sheffield in the 80's. Where about 1/3 of miners didn't go on strike in 84 and where treated like outcasts from those that did strike.

Still, when the differences of opinion became evident and people stopped talking to each other. It was easier to blame Thatcher than to take a long hard look at themselves
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Who's stopping you having an opinion, you may be slightly outnumbered, but you're not alone or anything. There's more pressure to conform in the real world over Thatcher than is going on in here.
 
Ding-Ding said:
Get ready for a backlash then because apparently you are not allowed to have a different opinion here.

Sounds an alot like places like Sheffield in the 80's. Where about 1/3 of miners didn't go on strike in 84 and where treated like outcasts from those that did strike.

Still, when the differences of opinion became evident and people stopped talking to each other. It was easier to blame Thatcher than to take a long hard look at themselves
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What are you talking about?

People disagree with opinions and articulate why. You selectively respond. People respond. You complain about the overall situation, citing the strawman of North Korea. What?

No one is stopping you from expressing your differing opinion. People are disputing points that you are making. Stop talking shit.
 
Tom_Cody said:
This is the quote you're talking about, right?

I'm not sure if you guys are being serious or not. Poli-GAF is so weird.

I take that as a general call for self-reliance and personal-independence. That quote seems pretty innocuous to me.
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Not only that she was saying that once a family has sorted out their own problems, then try to help those in the community around you.

What she didn't like is someone prepared to dump all their problems on total strangers, even before trying to look for a solution themselves

Willkiller said:
It was more of a joke that you're defending Thatcher while having a somewhat ironic username of 'Ding-Dong' :lol
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Thats weird as I thought my username was Ding-Ding... Not Ding-Dong
 
Tom_Cody said:
I take that as a general call for self-reliance and personal-independence. That quote seems pretty innocuous to me.
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She's talking about the homeless and how they're not society's problem because fuck society we're all alone, while using disgusting sentences like "They're casting their problem on society."

Yeah man, there's nothing wrong with that sentence, personally the first thing that goes through my mind when I see a homeless person is what a burden he is to society.
 
Ding-Ding said:
Not only that she was saying that once a family has sorted out their own problems, then try to help those in the community around you.

What she didn't like is someone prepared to dump all their problems on total strangers, even before trying to look for a solution themselves
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I don't know in what year you live in but government has replaced this antiquated definition of community and family long ago. In fact the reason why government enacted social programs in the first place was because people moved to cities and the very fabric of community and family where people would take care of their village elders, sick or helpless completely changed and people were demanding for the government to help.
 
Flatline said:
I don't know in what year you live in but government has replaced this antiquated definition of community and family long ago. In fact the reason why government enacted social programs in the first place was because people moved to cities and the very fabric of community and family where people would take care of their village elders, sick or helpless completely changed and people were demanding for the government to help.
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So you thinks its wrong that people like myelf should sort out our own problems first, then take care of our brothers, sisters & best friends.

Instead we should concentrate on total strangers who say "I'm everyones problem, you lot deal with it"

Screw That!!!
 
Ding-Ding said:
So you thinks its wrong that people like myelf should sort out our own problems first, then take care of our brothers, sisters & best friends.

Instead we should concentrate on total strangers who say "I'm everyones problem, you lot deal with it"

Screw That!!!
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No, I just think you're ridiculously short-sighted. The world doesn't revolve around you so a society that cares for the weak and helpless isn't trying to harm you it's just trying to help its members.

Not to mention that Thatcher's whole narrative is complete bullshit since this was never about the evil society taking your choice to help your family members but about partly taking your ability to hoard money. Let's not forget that Thatcher increased taxation for the middle class while halving it for the rich.

I know this has been repeated many time to libertarians but it bears repeating. Humans are social animals, if you disagree with that you can abandon everything humanity built together as a society and live with your "family and friends" in the wilderness or something.
 
Flatline said:
No, I just think you're ridiculously short-sighted. The world doesn't revolve around you so a society that cares for the weak and helpless isn't trying to harm you it's just trying to help its members.

Not to mention that Thatcher's whole narrative is complete bullshit since this was never about the evil society taking your choice to help your family members but about partly taking your ability to hoard money. Let's not forget that Thatcher increased taxation for the middle class while halving it for the rich.
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The tax rate for the rich was nearly 99%. Do you really think thats reasonable?

Also, no one is saying fuck the homless, just I would put my own family & friends above them.

Here though is the other side of the coin. Were are the the family & friends of that homless person. I mean if they have abandoned them, then why should I feel obliged to put them above my own flesh & blood?
 
Ding-Ding said:
The tax rate for the rich was nearly 99%. Do you really think thats reasonable?

Also, no one is saying fuck the homless, just I would put my own family & friends above them.
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It was 83% and yes it was quite reasonable. Notice how you've moved the goalposts from supposedly government taking your ability to care for family and friends to feeling sorry for the rich and then back to the family and friends argument in the next paragraph.


Here though is the other side of the coin. Were are the the family & friends of that homless person. I mean if they have abandoned them, then why should I feel obliged to put them above my own flesh & blood?
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...and the false dilemma continues...
 
Good riddance to the pompous old windbag. And I agree with Glenda; the first woman UK PM in biology only.

Now I'm ready to piss on Blair's legacy next. He's only one step below Thatcher in my book.
 
Flatline said:
It was 83% and yes it was quite reasonable. Notice how you've moved the goalposts from supposedly government taking your ability to care for family and friends to feeling sorry for the rich and then back to the family and friends argument in the next paragraph.




...and the false dilemma continues...
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Just looked and you are correct, the tax rate was 83%. However that was still to high. With tax rates like that and a country that was on strike every 5 minutes, is it surprising there was little foreign investment in the UK. Even the socialist governments of Europe thought we was a joke. Hence why the 1970's are nickname was "the sick man of Europe"

Also, what is so false about putting relatives above strangers. I bet you wouldn't so why the hell should I.

You are stuck in a world that no longer exists and was shown to have failed completely in 1979.
 
Ding-Ding said:
Just looked and you are correct, the tax rate was 83%. However that was still to high. With tax rates like that and a country that was on strike every 5 minutes, is it surprising there was little foreign investment in the UK. Even the socialist governments of Europe thought we was a joke. Hence why the 1970's are nickname was "the sick man of Europe"

Also, what is so false about putting relatives above strangers. I bet you wouldn't so why the hell should I.

You are stuck in a world that no longer exists and was shown to have failed completely in 1979.
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Your post is consisted of Reaganomics, a brainless economic theory proven wrong repeatedly, and the same false dilemmas that completely ignore my complaints about them in the previous post. I see no reason continuing this discussion.
 
zero shift said:
The homeless thing especially since nearly all of them have some type of mental illness.
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Don't worry, Care in the Community will help with that.

edit: RE: the "society" talk

They find themselves surrounded by hideous poverty, by hideous ugliness, by hideous starvation. It is inevitable that they should be strongly moved by all this. The emotions of man are stirred more quickly than man’s intelligence; and, as I pointed out some time ago in an article on the function of criticism, it is much more easy to have sympathy with suffering than it is to have sympathy with thought. Accordingly, with admirable, though misdirected intentions, they very seriously and very sentimentally set themselves to the task of remedying the evils that they see. But their remedies do not cure the disease: they merely prolong it. Indeed, their remedies are part of the disease.

They try to solve the problem of poverty, for instance, by keeping the poor alive; or, in the case of a very advanced school, by amusing the poor.

But this is not a solution: it is an aggravation of the difficulty. The proper aim is to try and reconstruct society on such a basis that poverty will be impossible. And the altruistic virtues have really prevented the carrying out of this aim. Just as the worst slave-owners were those who were kind to their slaves, and so prevented the horror of the system being realised by those who suffered from it, and understood by those who contemplated it, so, in the present state of things in England, the people who do most harm are the people who try to do most good; and at last we have had the spectacle of men who have really studied the problem and know the life – educated men who live in the East End – coming forward and imploring the community to restrain its altruistic impulses of charity, benevolence, and the like. They do so on the ground that such charity degrades and demoralises. They are perfectly right. Charity creates a multitude of sins.

There is also this to be said. It is immoral to use private property in order to alleviate the horrible evils that result from the institution of private property. It is both immoral and unfair.

Under Socialism all this will, of course, be altered. There will be no people living in fetid dens and fetid rags, and bringing up unhealthy, hunger-pinched children in the midst of impossible and absolutely repulsive surroundings. The security of society will not depend, as it does now, on the state of the weather. If a frost comes we shall not have a hundred thousand men out of work, tramping about the streets in a state of disgusting misery, or whining to their neighbours for alms, or crowding round the doors of loathsome shelters to try and secure a hunch of bread and a night’s unclean lodging. Each member of the society will share in the general prosperity and happiness of the society, and if a frost comes no one will practically be anything the worse.
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Labour should have gone to the polls in 78, things were turning around for the better, and they would have been in a stronger position when the striking started.

They were ahead in the polls, and this thread wouldn't exist.
 
PJV3 said:
Labour should have gone to the polls in 78, things were turning around for the better, and they would have been in a stronger position when the striking started.

They were ahead in the polls, and this thread wouldn't exist.
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While I agree If Labour went to the polls in August 78 they would have probably won but things were not getting better, nor would they have been stronger bargaining position.

The winter of discontent proved that. Unions who seviced the power utilities, mainly went on strike during winters as people were more dependant on lighting & heating. Callaghan, Heath & Wilson tried in the previos 3 governments to jam the tide & failed.

Even Thatcher caved to the miners in 81 as they were not ready for the fight. She increased coal reserves to have enough to get the country through a winter. Then deliberately picked a fight in the Spring of 84.

Scargil fell for it hook, line & sinker
 
H4iHeP0.jpg
 
Ding-Ding said:
Get ready for a backlash then because apparently you are not allowed to have a different opinion here.

Sounds an alot like places like Sheffield in the 80's. Where about 1/3 of miners didn't go on strike in 84 and where treated like outcasts from those that did strike.

Still, when the differences of opinion became evident and people stopped talking to each other. It was easier to blame Thatcher than to take a long hard look at themselves
Click to expand...

I've been around the block a few times, nothing I can't handle. I'm not seeking to convince anyone. This is getting slightly tripe in any case, people here know why I like her, I understand why people here dislike her. We disagree. No harm in that. :D
 
Ding-Ding said:
Oh yes, someone holds a different opinion from you so they should just be quiet huh?
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Different opinions are fine and welcome but you're talking rubbish. Nobody is telling you to go away, we're just debating your arguments and then you go and tell someone to move to North Korea because they quoted your name. Get a grip.
 
PJV3 said:
You're really overstating the problems of the 1970s, living standards rose.

http://econ.economicshelp.org/2010/02/economy-of-1970s.html?m=1
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Of course they rose. Alot of the countries workforce were under union control and Wilson, Heath & Callaghan all backed down in face of union demands.

Problem was by 78 they ran out of money subsidies inefficient industries. That though didn't stop the Unions demanding gut busting pay rises because inflation was out of control.

The only thing that could have changed the course of history, is if Labour had adopted 'In Place of Strife' in the late 60's. In my honest opinion looking back at history, Castle should have been the 1st women PM and the country may just have been a better place for it.
 
Flatline said:
She's talking about the homeless and how they're not society's problem because fuck society we're all alone, while using disgusting sentences like "They're casting their problem on society."

Yeah man, there's nothing wrong with that sentence, personally the first thing that goes through my mind when I see a homeless person is what a burden he is to society.
Click to expand...

I always find the argument "Well government shouldn't help these people, people should." I mean what exactly is done to facilitate this? For example Hugo Chavez wants many Venezuelan businesses to be cooperatives so he has programs that train tens of thousands of Venezuelans to open up cooperatives (which almost all of them do). To have businesses start investing in renewable energy and to get them off the back of the state, in Germany they worked directly with these renewable energy companies to aid them to get out of the state's hands as fast as possible.

So what exactly did Thatcher do to facilitate communities to start looking out for one another and start charities so the government wouldn't do so? And if she did so were they effective?
 
Everyone in here praising Thatcher must support apartheid, or murderous dictators, or the firesale of publicly owned property to private entities. They must also have a fairly poor understanding of history and finally, anyone who wasn't born while she reigned really doesn't have the full context to judge her tenure. So by all means talk about her legacy, but don't skip the important negative long term effects.
 
Stinkles said:
Everyone in here praising Thatcher must support apartheid, or murderous dictators, or the firesale of publicly owned property to private entities. They must also have a fairly poor understanding of history and finally, anyone who wasn't born while she reigned really doesn't have the full context to judge her tenure. So by all means talk about her legacy, but don't skip the important negative long term effects.
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Preach.

The hag was an awful, awful addition to the human race and should be remembered as much.
 
CHEEZMO™;53833692 said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/14/thatcher-knew-of-equatorial-giunea-coup-attempt
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Article said:
She is also alleged to have encouraged Mann to talk to a group seeking to overthrow the then president of Venezuela, Hugo Chávez, with the words: "We must always look after our friends, Simon … as I'm sure you know."
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Its amusing that this comes after the Wikileak about the U.S. and Venezuela.

Why can''t we just leave these nations the fuck alone?
 
Stinkles said:
Everyone in here praising Thatcher must support apartheid, or murderous dictators, or the firesale of publicly owned property to private entities. They must also have a fairly poor understanding of history and finally, anyone who wasn't born while she reigned really doesn't have the full context to judge her tenure. So by all means talk about her legacy, but don't skip the important negative long term effects.
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bu bu but she brought the country back to greatness!11!!! and she was popular that must mean she's a great leader! sheeple.
 
Notrollious said:
bu bu but she brought the country back to greatness!11!!! and she was popular that must mean she's a great leader! sheeple.
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My favourite is "She's an icon to feminists!!" Ignoring the fact that she looks down on feminism and called it poison. Then again, most of the people claiming the above more than likely know nothing about her.
 
CHEEZMO™;53838576 said:
The dude's profile pic is what I was getting at.
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I know, you were referring to him having the equal rights for LBGT picture since Margaret didn't support the LBGT community. I just found it funny that it took past the 1930's comment for the person to realize what the title meant.
 
zero shift said:
I always find the argument "Well government shouldn't help these people, people should." I mean what exactly is done to facilitate this? For example Hugo Chavez wants many Venezuelan businesses to be cooperatives so he has programs that train tens of thousands of Venezuelans to open up cooperatives (which almost all of them do). To have businesses start investing in renewable energy and to get them off the back of the state, in Germany they worked directly with these renewable energy companies to aid them to get out of the state's hands as fast as possible.

So what exactly did Thatcher do to facilitate communities to start looking out for one another and start charities so the government wouldn't do so? And if she did so were they effective?
Click to expand...

We're reverting back to a victorian mentality that sees the poor and lower rung as too stupid, ignorant, and base minded to contribute anything to society. Similar rhetoric appearing as well, from smilesian condescension at best to outright vitriol and viciousness.
 
Rich UK idiots are not paying taxes on $32T hidden overseas and it's the homeless that are the burden on society... I fuckin' hate mindless sheep that go to bat for the rich. Margaret Thatcher is somewhere where she'll never need a North Face jacket, that's for sure.
 
Her legacy?

Her tenure was based around:

Deregulation of the financial markets
Increase in the value of housing stock
A war in the Falklands
Selling of state-run entities: gas, trains, electric, water
A state-funded attempt to turn the UK into a manufacturer of new tech.
While at the same time reducing funding to schools in poorer areas leading to a massive reduction in high-skilled school leavers.


And where are we now? Still in a recession after the 2008 financial crash in the markets led by speculators and the housing bubble.
Even David Cameron was trying to make attempts last summer to curb the privatised electric/gas companies greed in tariff rates..
As for the trains! less said about that the better.
Lastly, I don't think we are world-reknowned for our tech industry?

What a legacy!!

Elvis Costello - Tramp the Dirt Down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-BZIWSI5UQ&feature=player_embedded
 
travisbickle said:
Her legacy?

Her tenure was based around:

Deregulation of the financial markets
Increase in the value of housing stock
A war in the Falklands
Selling of state-run entities: gas, trains, electric, water
A state-funded attempt to turn the UK into a manufacturer of new tech.
While at the same time reducing funding to schools in poorer areas leading to a massive reduction in high-skilled school leavers.


And where are we now? Still in a recession after the 2008 financial crash in the markets led by speculators and the housing bubble.
Even David Cameron was trying to make attempts last summer to curb the privatised electric/gas companies greed in tariff rates..
As for the trains! less said about that the better.
Lastly, I don't think we are world-reknowned for our tech industry?

What a legacy!!

Elvis Costello - Tramp the Dirt Down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-BZIWSI5UQ&feature=player_embedded
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So Labour had nothing to do with the crash, it was all Thatcher.

The delusion is strong in this one.
 
YoungHav said:
Rich UK idiots are not paying taxes on $32T hidden overseas and it's the homeless that are the burden on society... I fuckin' hate mindless sheep that go to bat for the rich. Margaret Thatcher is somewhere where she'll never need a North Face jacket, that's for sure.
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You do realise that the 32t you mention isn't all UK money, and is only an estimation...
 
kitch9 said:
Are you 5 years old?
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And calling someone delusion isn't childish?



I wonder why Labour didn't change anything if her legacy was so bad.
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They didn't change it because they are a bunch of spineless arseholes, and they wanted to ride on the coat tails of temporary success.

Politics isn't a case of us versus them, I hate Labour, I hate all politicians!!

You seem to have no grasp of politics outside of the Blue is good Red is bad.

I need to get banned for bad language, the discourse on here when it comes to politics is so regressive it's painful.


fuck
tit
wank
shit
 
kitch9 said:
I wonder why Labour didn't change anything if her legacy was so bad.
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Because New Labour are awful ;) . But it is a stretch to blame it all on her. She set the agenda for a good amount of that stuff to occur, but it wasn't inevitable. It is better just criticising the things she did - supporting dictators, authoritarian acts, section 28 etc.
 
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