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Why were/are the Asian immigrants so successful?
- Thread starter zero shift
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XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
CharlieDigital
Banned
I don't think I convey that at all. Most immigrants are hard working, but the amazing fact is that per capita, Asians have the highest income of all races in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Race_6_figure_household_and.png
I mean, this is factual data.
So then the question I would guess society would want to answer is "Hmm...why is that the case? Is there something we can learn here?"
If you dismiss it as some sort of "stereotype", you lose out on an opportunity to take a social lesson from it.
I'm not a social scientist. I don't study other cultures. I can only offer my perspective that Confucianism and it's ideals are a strong influence on Asian society.
OJdaKiller
Member
So there are two extremely dense people that responded...Point taken.
Dude, give it up. If nobody understood your post as sarcasm, then you failed to effectively convey sarcasm. Don't blame others.
CrushDance
Banned
?.......What. When the average person looks at an Asian, I highly doubt it's the mental flash of a gangster or drug dealer. Asians have a much more 'positive' air attributed to them. Quite, studious, diligent. Not trouble makers or social pariahs. And why are you stepping around the fact that Asian culture and themes are widely popular in media?
QUOTE=CharlieDigital;54647454]I don't think I convey that at all. Most immigrants are hard working, but the amazing fact is that Asians have the highest income of all races in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Race_6_figure_household_and.png
I mean, this is factual data.
So then the question I would guess society would want to answer is "Hmm...why is that the case? Is there something we can learn here?"
If you dismiss it as some sort of "stereotype", you lose out on an opportunity to take a social lesson from it.[/QUOTE]
The degrees and positions most Asian parents expect their children to go to are the most educated and highest paying. I don't see anything magical about that data. Very few immigrants go for English degrees.
I am pretty sure this is true for just about all immigrants that actually have families back in their native countries.
I mean that's how these immigration enclaves sprout up in the first place. Some enterprising immigrants arrive first, establish a foothold, and then send money back to bring over more fellow families/friends/countrymen.
Ah, I'm pretty sure these numbers include the "black" or "hispanic" population that's natively born. In fact that applies to "whites" too. If we limit this discussion solely to first gen immigrants, however, I believe some African immigrants are actually doing better than the east Asians, as others have mentioned.
Except there are entire Asian Nations that are extremely successful. Coming out of colonialism and WW2, I think few can argue that nations such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and China has had tremendous successes in many areas. Of course there are lazy Chinese, lazy Americans, lazy anybody. But you have too look at the whole picture, and not focus on individuals.
victreeb3l
Member
if someone has enough drive and ambition to uproot themselves and settle in a new country, then they are more likely to work harder and be motivated to succeed.
majority of my south asian and asian friends are rich as fuck, all with rags to riches stories. when we came to america the first time, we lived fairly shitty but now we have been able to make a good living for ourselves. theres always the (sometimes insane) focus on education.
one thing ive noticed is that asian immigrants usually have a tight knit community and a good support system. i remember an uncle who has helped some newcomers get jobs and other people from mosques that got together to help another get a good tutor for their children. when you have people who have your back during crises, im sure that shit helps a lot.
majority of my south asian and asian friends are rich as fuck, all with rags to riches stories. when we came to america the first time, we lived fairly shitty but now we have been able to make a good living for ourselves. theres always the (sometimes insane) focus on education.
one thing ive noticed is that asian immigrants usually have a tight knit community and a good support system. i remember an uncle who has helped some newcomers get jobs and other people from mosques that got together to help another get a good tutor for their children. when you have people who have your back during crises, im sure that shit helps a lot.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I count 4 other posters other than myself who replied to you and didn't get your "sarcasm."
There's nothing such as a positive stereotype. Those stereotypes still negatively affect the way asian kids view themselves when they grow up being told how they're expected to behave based on their ethnicity.
Also, it's the reason why affirmative-action universities set higher SAT standards for asian kids making it harder for them to get in.
Zoe
Member
CharlieDigital
Banned
Uh....so do the numbers for the Asians? Why would you think that the numbers for the Asians only include foreign born?
CrushDance
Banned
So what is the whole picture of entire continents and their people's?
CharlieDigital
Banned
CrushDance
Banned
That is why I put positive in quotes.
Sure. And what does that stereotype tell you about others? This is slippery slope.
Devolution
Member
You mean the unfair model minority stereotype in which people just think of them as quiet industrious people that other minorities who complain too much need to model themselves after? How the hell do you think that's fair to them? Or how can you analyze that as "widely loved"? As I said before you have no idea what you're talking about.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/03/black_immigrants_an_invisible.html
A true fact nobody really talks about or even believes. Especially going to be ironic when this thread finally gets around to directly comparing asians to blacks as these types of discussions fall into about 90 percent of the time.
There's only one dense person here. He's the one that doesn't realize these kind of threads always manage to bring the crazies on NeoGAF, and so it pays to be cautious about what you say lest you come off as an insensitive prick.
That's you by the way.
Because this discussion is about first gen immigrants? At least, that's what I assume the OP was talking about.
The offspring of immigrants are often raised in a radically different environment than their parents so the two's success shouldn't be too closely conflated. And their offspring are even more removed from their grandparents'.
CrushDance
Banned
Stop trying to be offended on behalf of minorities all the time.
It's bullshit and why this stuff just drives groups further apart. "Asians are so nice and hard working! Unlike those...". Not only does it screw over Asian people. But it also reinforces the stereotype that others are shit. It's like a favoritism game that minorities are playing to "win" or something. It's gross.
crimzonflame
Member
I don't think I convey that at all. Most immigrants are hard working, but the amazing fact is that per capita, Asians have the highest income of all races in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Race_6_figure_household_and.png
I mean, this is factual data.
So then the question I would guess society would want to answer is "Hmm...why is that the case? Is there something we can learn here?"
If you dismiss it as some sort of "stereotype", you lose out on an opportunity to take a social lesson from it.
I'm not a social scientist. I don't study other cultures. I can only offer my perspective that Confucianism and it's ideals are a strong influence on Asian society.
Does 'Asian' include South Asians and Pacific Islanders?
OJdaKiller
Member
It's very difficult to offend people here on Neo Gaf. I'm sorry I crossed a line..I truly apologize for my offense.
*WINK, WINK*****I'm being sarcastic...
Zoe
Member
It's however you identify yourself on the census. Doesn't include mixed race.
I'm a Chinese immigrant.
I moved from a Chinese speaking country to a primarily English speaking country that has a majority of ethnic Chinese.
My father never finished secondary school, he dropped out of school at 15 to raise his siblings. He spent many years in night school as a working adult, and because of that he's got an MBA now and he owns his own business.
My mother finished upper secondary school (equivalent to high school) and went to nursing school from there. She stopped working when we migrated to raise me, and subsequently my brother.
I was 5 when we migrated. I have a Ph.D. now.
I moved from a Chinese speaking country to a primarily English speaking country that has a majority of ethnic Chinese.
My father never finished secondary school, he dropped out of school at 15 to raise his siblings. He spent many years in night school as a working adult, and because of that he's got an MBA now and he owns his own business.
My mother finished upper secondary school (equivalent to high school) and went to nursing school from there. She stopped working when we migrated to raise me, and subsequently my brother.
I was 5 when we migrated. I have a Ph.D. now.
TheKaeptain
Banned
This is very new. Before Asian's were mostly mocked and derided in media. A lot of the times they were portrayed as the other or something different than what we believed to be right. The women were shown as whores and the men were weak and stupid being dominated by the strong western man. Only recently have they been played as more than just a stereotype.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Well I'm Asian and I'm not successful! Suck on that!
At least not yet successful.
CrushDance
Banned
This is pretty much the same thing my parents and our neighbours parents did. Except: shocker! My mom never had the chance to go to school in Africa and neither did our neighbours mother. But both our fathers went to University.
This has way more to do with parents and the reason for immigrating than anything else. Which in both cases was for a better life and opportunity through education.
I don't dispute with that. I watched TV growing up and saw plenty of slanted eyed buck teeth characters with gongs and other silly things like that. But it has evolved rather quickly into this "obsession" with Asian people and Asian women moreso. Why, I'm not sure. But it is the way things are now.
Also keep in mind how difficult *cough21cough* it is to see an East Asian lead in a Hollywood movie that:
1) Isn't a kung fu flick
2) Isn't a comedy flick
There's a huge difference between "acceptance" and "selective fetishization"; we're currently mired in the latter. There's still have a long way to go here.
1) Isn't a kung fu flick
2) Isn't a comedy flick
There's a huge difference between "acceptance" and "selective fetishization"; we're currently mired in the latter. There's still have a long way to go here.
Two main reason:
1) Workd hard.
2) Save their money.
Both are important. They work and live like crap for 10-20 years. With the money saved, they invest in properties, like homes for rentals, and businesses, like restaurants, to make more money. Asian parents are very strict with their kids schooling leading them mostly to highend money making professions.
1) Workd hard.
2) Save their money.
Both are important. They work and live like crap for 10-20 years. With the money saved, they invest in properties, like homes for rentals, and businesses, like restaurants, to make more money. Asian parents are very strict with their kids schooling leading them mostly to highend money making professions.
CrushDance
Banned
Hollywood white washes everything. The last movie with Asian leads I saw was The Raid. *Shrug* And yeah, it is more of a weird fetish like I mentioned earlier.
Actually my parents made it pretty decently before we migrated.
My father was the eldest and had 5 siblings, his father was a coolie and his mother was uneducated. Dropping out of school was the only way to put bread on the table for everyone.
My mother was the 2nd eldest and also had 5 siblings, her parents were just rubbish collectors. Her family had rife with unhappiness and going to nursing school allowed her to get away from that, as well as put bread on the table for her siblings.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Yeah... I went through all of that, except the last part. Of course what I wanted to do with my life probably had more to do with it. I will never let go of my love for prehistoric life and paleontology. Not exactly 100K earning career choices.
I would also like to point out that Hmongs are Asians who haven't been as successful.
Cubans are also so-called model minority, and I've heard enclaves are in part the reason they were so successful. Did Asian enclaves (like a Chinatown, or K-Town) help pave the way to success?
Cubans are also so-called model minority, and I've heard enclaves are in part the reason they were so successful. Did Asian enclaves (like a Chinatown, or K-Town) help pave the way to success?
They help, certainly. I don't think they can be considered an individual contributing factor, but are rather an intrinsic part of the immigration experience.
CrushDance
Banned
Sorry? What's a coolie? Sounds like a slur! And my father came from a "wealthy" family back home. If you measure wealth by the size of your farm and number of cattle
So they weren't exactly "suffering" back home. But he left it all behind so that he could immigrate to a country where his children could become more than farmers.Devolution
Member
Sorry? What's a coolie? Sounds like a slur! And my father came from a "wealthy" family back home. If you measure wealth by the size of your farm and number of cattle
A coolie is one of those uneducated manual laborers. Something like this:
My great grandfather was also a coolie, but he apparently died from opium addiction.
TheKaeptain
Banned
It's the same thing at work. They become interested in Asian culture because it is different than the norm that they know.
CrushDance
Banned
Thanks.
A coolie is one of those uneducated manual laborers. Something like this:
My great grandfather was also a coolie, but he apparently died from opium addiction.
Ah k.
I think it's slowly getting better over the last few years. Look at John Cho in Harold&Kumar, Star Trek, and Go On. And Justin Lin directing big movies like Fast & Furious and casting people like Sung Kang into, albeit a supporting role, a non-stereotypical role. And there's Steven Yeun in TWD. And I know there's hate for Lucy Liu, but I think her role is strong in Elementary.
But yeah, not much. But more than before!
Zoe
Member
And that's why Asians love Pepto. It's like the base for the Asian version of sizzurp.
zero shift
Banned
What bothers me is that people say things like "save their money", "work hard", and "do well in school". Save money and do what with it? The problem with most immigrant groups is that they can save all the money they want but they aren't going to have business experience so if they open up a business it usually isn't successful. Their kids live in bad neighborhoods and go to bad schools so they usually don't cut it for college. Work hard? Well plenty of people do that, but they often find themselves overwhelmed as they work a backbreaking full time job or more. Though even with the immigrants I listed at the top, it isn't an issue with them. And its not like other poor immigrants are along the lines of them, it seems that every other demographic (Hispanic, African American, and even the Europeans fell trap to underperfoming in academics and economic growth, yet the Asians excelled). Virtually every under-performing ethnic group has a problem of not being able to use their skills, middle class white kids can study all they want but nowhere near all of them will make the deans list (let alone the poor) and most aren't able to get grants for college, yet it doesn't affect these communities even if they were in poverty.
The refugees of the 70s came with nothing as they couldn't even speak the language and now they are near middle class with a fair bit of them rich. How were they able to do this when everyone else failed? And is it realistic for all the immigrant groups to be able to take such a route?
A lot of Asians that came here are well off. If you look at immigration after the 70s some 2/3rds came with college degrees. I'm focusing mainly on the demographics in the OP.
Virtually all of the African immigrants that come here are privileged. I've talked with many of them. You aren't getting any from the rural areas as you got with the 70s and 80s Asian refugees.
You could say the same about Western Europe, America, and well until the collapse of Communism much of Eastern Europe too.
True but why wasn't this the case for the early 20th century whites that took the route of crime? Or the Latin Americans during their wars that came over here?
The refugees of the 70s came with nothing as they couldn't even speak the language and now they are near middle class with a fair bit of them rich. How were they able to do this when everyone else failed? And is it realistic for all the immigrant groups to be able to take such a route?
A lot of Asians that came here are well off. If you look at immigration after the 70s some 2/3rds came with college degrees. I'm focusing mainly on the demographics in the OP.
Virtually all of the African immigrants that come here are privileged. I've talked with many of them. You aren't getting any from the rural areas as you got with the 70s and 80s Asian refugees.
You could say the same about Western Europe, America, and well until the collapse of Communism much of Eastern Europe too.
True but why wasn't this the case for the early 20th century whites that took the route of crime? Or the Latin Americans during their wars that came over here?
If by Asian you mean "East Asian, other Asian people don't really matter." Which, in fairness, is usually what people mean.
Because Asian men are consistently emasculated and made to appear ridiculous in mainstream media, meaning that Asian women are considered available to white men.
Some of the disparities between the immigrant groups, I think, can be explained in part by timing. The 70s and 80s were a different time, and the same thing they did then might not be viable anymore.
Delving further into this, however, would require expertise most of us don't have.
Delving further into this, however, would require expertise most of us don't have.
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