Not humiliating enough considering that they came up with Wii U right from the gate after that.
Iwata on third parties, hundreds of inquiries since GDC about Nintendo Web Framework
- Thread starter Hobby
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Not humiliating enough considering that they came up with Wii U right from the gate after that.
shinra-bansho
Member
Fair point around brand association, but that would have been the case regardless of when they released. And yes, I agree, they should have just launched slightly earlier. (Although, I really doubt it would have had a huge impact.)
Most assuredly, but that doesn't really mean anything going forward. I'm sure a lot publishers regret missing that boat, but this is a new boat.
Again, new boat. Being wary, if one didn't see the screen taking off as it hasn't, was prudent.
The thing is, and I've said it before, the onus isn't really on third parties to build that audience.
-----
I should actually retract that and clarify that I think there's probably room for a middle of the market, one that's aware that it's not COD, FIFA etc. and budgets accordingly etc. The problem is when middle of the market games and/or publishers think they can compete with the likes of GTA and have ambitions of being a mega franchise.
I don't really think that necessitates finding a home on the Wii U. Again, I think better hardware simply facilitates more and bigger, it doesn't necessitate it.
I understand their necessity for a "hook" I think that what they chose wasn't a good one. And I think if they had a much better Wii Sports for the system than Nintendo Land they would have used it already.
Quinton McLeod
Banned
Umm.. The 3DS didn't flop.
So, you're basing this overreaching opinion off of only 1 quarter fiscal year of sales?
You should join up with Michael Pachter. You guys will get along just fine.
If it didn't flop, why the emergency price cut and need for ambassador programme? Yes it is has recovered completely in Japan. In the non-asian markets, sales are OK, but software is well below historic averages.
Did you click the link? The revenue and operating income graphs cover 11 years.
I guess it is possible that the wiiu/3ds combo could get Nintendo back to the 2009 peak, but I don't believe they will.
I love how anything below rising to heaven with unprecedented sales and success as in 2009, is considered "limping along"
Try harder kthnx.
darkistheway
Member
Agree, middle tier should find comfortable niche markets and build on success.
What I'm saying is Nintendo has an opportunity to sell the Wii U as that home. Certainly, they would reap greater benefits than trying to compete for the COD market.
If they have something else cooking, it had better be at E3.
Quinton McLeod
Banned
But that doesn't mean it flopped.
The Sega CD flopped. The Jaguar flopped. The Sega 32X flopped. The Turbographx 16 flopped.
When the top of your freshly baked cake flops, there is no recovery.
The 3DS is still going. Therefore, it didn't flop.
Yes, and I saw the graphs, however, you specifically mentioned the DS, and since there is only one graph which compares the 3DS and the DS, I am noticing only 1 quarter fiscal year difference between the 3DS and the DS. I'm betting you're using that data to make your wild assumptions.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Minecraft effect is a very rare thing. Even Mojang acknowledges this, not to mention it blew up on PC primarily. Saying a minecraft like situation could come to WiiU is wishful thinking. Its like a saying a wii sports like game may come to the WiiU. Don't get me wrong its possible but its not realistic.
Sure I did.
So where did I say Indie games don't sell well?
No. I did not know that he clarified it after the initial statement.
1) This is what you said:
Ubisoft did not make buku bucks of the Wii just because their development costs were down.
2) http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2012/08/lollipop-chainsaw-suda51s/
http://www.screwattack.com/news/lollipop-chainsaw-suda-51%E2%80%99s-most-successful-game-date
Where are you getting your informations from? Sources?
3) Source?
According to Wikipedia Resi 5 sold 5.9 million copies. Resi 4 on Wii sold 1.9 million units.
1) The WiiU is looking like it will own 60% of the video game market. You are delusional if you think this is true. Indie devs are not the only ones who budget their games. Just look at all the devs that have had successes this gen and devs that remain afloat despite their series selling less than a million.
2)
What do you mean here then?
3) So now you are talking about revenue or profit not sales? Minecraft sold 20 million in two years. GTA 4 did 25 million in 4 years. I don't know the profit/revenue but if you do please tell me as it would be interesting to see.
You're using a lot of emotional language to describe a bunch of businesses decisions. I think it's premature to call the platform a failure, although certainly the launch has been one. If mariokart and whatever else they have up their sleeve generates a tepid response, you may ultimately turn out to be right. But remember, a failure for Nintendo is passing a generation making only good profits, not amazing ones.
No, the limping along part is when operating income oscillates around the break even line. do I need to add an IMO to that?
I guess that's good news for the Vita then?
My original statement was wrt to Nintendo's revenue and profit and how the 3ds/wiiU duo will in no way, shape, or form match the success of the wii/ds.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
What? Im not wishful thinking, like you all im saying is its possible. Please do not get confused.
Night_Trekker
Member
Actually, last gen, it worked for Nintendo, too.
The problem with the WiiU isn't horsepower. It didn't hurt them with the Wii (except with third parties, arguably, and they still handily won the console war), a fact a great many hardcore gamers are still butthurt about. The problem is the WiiU has no interesting hook like the Wii did.
It's almost the same thing that happened with the 3DS at launch. "Oh... seems like nobody gives a shit about 3D gaming after all." Except the 3DS has taken off in sales since then and has the third party support. I just don't see that happening for the WiiU :/
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I wonder why the 3DS doesnt get called out more for its low specs. Surely Nintendo should have made it similar to vita. No?
Quinton McLeod
Banned
1) No. This is what I said:
You see, all that text actually goes together. It forms the context of my statement.
2) Re-read what I said:
It's actually quite cleverly written. The benchmark of 'successful' is _money made_ and not _units sold_; however, I did acknowledge that No More Heroes sold more on a _single_ console. Suda51 is combining the sales of both the X360 and the PS3. Those systems by themselves did not outsell No More Heroes by any stretch of the imagination.
3) I made two statements. Which source are you looking for?
1) I said Nintendo owns 60% of the video game market.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=546752
And that's for only hardware, just to give you an idea. With hardware, Nintendo still owns about 35%-40%. Software sales is much much higher.
As for devs that budget themselves. Please name this long list. I'm very curious.
2) I was being sarcastic. I was conveying that 3rd parties hated the Wii, seemingly, for unknown reasons outside of not being able to exert their creativity on "dated hardware", however, that wasn't the point I was making with you. It had nothing to do with what I saying in regards to all the 3rd parties going belly-up. I made THAT point rather clear.
3) According to this article, it cost Rockstar 100 million to make GTA4. I'll let you do the napkin math.
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/gaming/2009/02/whats_killing_the_videogame_business.html
Night_Trekker
Member
People bitch and moan about the 3DS's specs all the time.
With the Wii they were trying for those, Project Hammer & Disaster.
One got cancelled, the other delayed.
Looks like for the WiiU they are having similar problems, except,
we dont know about all the titles they are working on.
& controls, which I guess is part of specs?
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
As to why the console is not succeding and the games not looking good enough? I dont think so.
and yes I know the 3DS is doing quite good fir itself right now.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
My bad, I read it incorrectly. However it still goes against your point of third parties not supporting the Wii. The fact Suda 51's most successful game is on the 360/ps3 pie rather than Wii pie surely shows why third parties did not need to develop on the Wii. Would it of helped their sales....yes of course but time and resources would need to be spent and whether the venture was worth it was their decision.
I'm not sure what you mean here because I clearly showed this was incorrect with the data I posted?
I misunderstood you when you said the WiiU is looking like the same deal.
I don't see how the WiiU is looking like the same deal.
Furthermore, were talking about the console market here. We know western third parties are reluctant to work on handhelds and thats where the majority of Nintendo's market share is from.
Looking at your source WiiU has something like 7% of market share while PS3 has 25% and 360 20%.
Errrr.....every dev that has made a decent profit.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Apple ditched PPC because none of the PPC vendors could meet their own roadmaps, so Apple had to time and again announce products it could not actually launch on time.
Now, perhaps you meant to say PPC scaled poorly at high clocks (read: could not reach those), which was the case during that era (last PPC Apples), but which has nothing to do with power efficiency. Traditionally, PPC have trounced x86 in performance/power up until the advent of the Core architecture.
In the power/performance domain (read: automotive and various other kinds of performance-sensitive embedded) only recently (read: in the past few years) PPC has been losing ground to ARM's high-end. x86_64 has been struggling to get a foot there; chances are still very good though that the dashboard in your car still runs on an PPC.
Mithos
Member
That a one year old port (Re4 wii edition) sold almost as much as Resident Evil 5 did on PS3, or 360 or PC, I don't think he was looking on it at as a combined figure of all 3 platforms vs Wii.
Because it's actually getting good games.
I agree with some of what your saying. One of the main reasons Nintendo went with underpowered hardware with the Wii was to put a damper on development costs by keeping the upper ceiling of visual fidelity low. As a result the Wii did become a little bit of a refuge for some middle-budget games (Fragile Dreams, the Trauma series, etc.). On some level, Nintendo kind of called it right in regards to whether people were ready for HD-level console game development. Tons of western studios bankrupted themselves, a lot of Japanese studios took way too long to adjust to HD-level game development, and even today most games are still only 720p. Developing lower-budget games for the Wii might have been beneficial for a lot of the studios want went under because it would've decreased the chances of them throwing massive budgets at the games.
The other reason those massive budgets happened though was because guys like EA and Activision set a standard for audiovisual presentation in games this generation which required those huge budgets. They're trying to create an environment similar to other media industries where almost the whole market is controlled by the four or five companies that can actually afford the cost of putting out content. Some developers (especially Japanese ones) were smart enough to ignore this and focus on their core audience, even on the PS3 and 360.
Disgaea 3 and 4 are PS3 games, but they pretty much look just like the PS2 games, just running in 720p. I imagine Disgaea 5 is going to be a PS4 game and will probably still have the same graphics, just in 1080p, and that series' fans will still buy it. All developers really have to do to survive on these new expensive platforms if they aren't EA or Take-Two or Activision is play to their audience. They don't necessarily need weaker hardware to force them to lower budgets.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Comparing handhelds and consoles. Smh.
Nintendo gets great third party support on handhelds.
Nintendo gets shitty third party support on consoles.
Sony gets shitty third party support on handhelds.
Sony gets amazing third party support on consoles.
HANDHELDS AND CONSOLE MARKETS ARE NOT THE SAME. The expectations are different. Nintendo fucked up the 3DS launch and it's lack of success freaked Nintendo out enough to give 20! Free games to early adopters and slash the price. combined with these moves AND good software it started to sell. Still selling shitty in the West and Nintendo has confirmed as such.
The 3DS also wasn't competing with another dedicated system (other than the DS) for a year. The Wii U should have had similar success but Nintendo once again fucked up. The difference now is it's competing with a 150 million tag team juggernaut AND will be competing with another tag team juggernaut in 6 months.
Microsoft and Sony are giving publishers and devs what they want AND are doing it on TWO consoles. Nintendo didn't give pubs and devs what THEY wanted and did it on one console. Devs and pubs WILL support two consoles cs one just like last gen.
Nintendo fucked up. It's trying to replicate it's emergency escape from the 3DS on to the Wii U and the markets and situations are entirely different. Nintendo was competing against itself with the 3DS way before the Vita and it ended up succeeding (the Vita flopping didn't hurt). Nintendo is now competig against Microsoft and Sony for the next 5+ years and it's doing it without the Wiimote and without third party support. The same situation it found itself in pre Wii.
Yea, Nintendo is going to need a MIRACLE and unfortunately miracles don't usually happen to the same company in back to back products.
And because it´s a handheld and requires a totally different approach to appeal to the market than a console does.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
It's crazy that people dont accept this.
Any smart or informed individual knew that there was no way that franchises that never hit the Wii userbase was going to sell as much as the 360/PS3/PC versions that got every other game in the series and had a massive installed base over the Wii U. Shinra mentioned ROI on a Tomb Raider Wii U port probably not being worth it and drawing a parallel to BLOPs 2, AC3 or ME3 but the thing is that if these third parties weren't dumb (and I'm not saying they are or aren't) then they would've accounted for that. I would argue that even if it lost them money (which I'm not confident even the worst selling ports did) it's worth doing just to build the user base on the Wii U for the next iteration of the game. Yes, we all laughed that Nintendo gave E3 time to WB for Batman Arkham City Armored Edition and shook our heads at it being a late port launch game but ask yourselves a question. Will Batman Arkham Origins coming out on Wii U this year be better or worse off for having established Arkham City on the Wii U at launch? You can also substitute AC4 or CoD for this year as well.
Not excusing less than stellar sales at launch because some parties deserved more sales than the others but at launch I don't think it's as important to sell X units as opposed to making sure that you get your brands on the system to let the userbase grow accustomed to seeing them for the lifespan of the console.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Yeah I was guessing that but in that case I couldn't find any data on the sales of individual RE5 SKU's. Do you happen to have any data on it because I am sure (its highly probable) that RE5 on PS3 outsold the Wii port by more than a million.
I have a problem with saying that 3DS's software sales are below historical averages. How do we know the 3DS's software sales are below historical averages when we don't know how many digital sales 3DS's software has had? NPD only lists physical sales after all. Does Media-Create list digital sales in addition to physical sales? It very well could be that software is doing just as well on the 3DS as it had done on past handhelds, but that most people are buying their games digitally now.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Nintendo knows and it is concerned at how the 3 DS is selling in the West.
No. Consoles and handhelds are different beasts altogether. You don't play handheld games to experience virtual presence and a story with forward momentum, it's really inconvenient if you have to remember at which stop to get out of the train. Handheld games are more about gameplay than immersion and therefore place a lower strain on the hardware capabilities. It is actually precisely this that Sony have gotten wrong two times in a row in trying to 'bring the console experience to handheld gaming'.
I have yet to read anything about Nintendo being concerned about 3DS software sales outside of the initial "Crap, we've priced ourselves out of the market" period. You got anything to back up this claim?
All investors meetings since it released. Conserned is the wrong word but Iwata has said that he is disappointed with the western sales.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
TheRedSnifit
Member
At this point, Nintendo is so desperate for good knows to peddle to their shareholders that if this were true I think we'd have heard it from them by now.
darkistheway
Member
Oh, you. So smart.
PS3 WEAKER THAN GAMECUBE CONFIRMED!
He doesn't say that Wii U isn't more powerful, just that it's not that much more powerful as current games don't show much improvement over what PS3 and Xbox 360 games do. Obviously, that a lot of titles don't even look as good as the best on PS3/360 is more due to the fact that 3rd parties allocate B-teams or limited resources for Wii U development and Nintendo being lazy as usual.
I imagine that Super Mario Galaxy 3 will be the first 1st party title to show significant improvements over what we have seen on PS3/360 - EAD Tokyo seems to be capable of producing titles with incredible graphics, unlike for example the Zelda team.
PS3 WEAKER THAN GAMECUBE CONFIRMED!
That is an Xbox 360 game.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
TheRedSnifit
Member
Fixed.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Please understand.
Nintendo first party software is on the horizon but I don't know how much it's going to help third party support materialize and that is what will hold Nintendo back this gen seeing as the gamepad will not lead them to the heavens like the Wiimote did.
Perfect Dark Zero had way better graphics than Resident Evil 4.
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