demosthenes
Member
PS3 failed for several reasons. Horrible launch lineup along, Sony sliding into a deep deep hole on the whole as a company and a worldwide recession the likes we haven't seen in a while.
Thurott: $299 version of Xbox v.Next will come with a $15/mo XBLG sub, not $10
- Thread starter Nero3000
- Start date
PS3 failed for several reasons. Horrible launch lineup along, Sony sliding into a deep deep hole on the whole as a company and a worldwide recession the likes we haven't seen in a while.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Would you like the thread to be closed and no one be allowed to discuss this until all the facts are known?
I mean, using the subsided model of the 360 as a reference obviously isn't ok with you.
BadAss2961
Member
Officerrob
Banned
A subsidized 360 RIGHT NOW requires a $15 a month subscription. The cost of Live and the $15 subsidized price per month are not and will not be the same thing
Lady Deathstrike
Banned
Weren't they losing close to $300 on each PS3 sold?
grimshawish
Banned
Microsoft CAN'T have this gen Live cards work for next gen Live.
Why? Because next gen Live cards include a family subscription.
Too many current cards floating around the market.
Why? Because next gen Live cards include a family subscription.
Too many current cards floating around the market.
Officerrob
Banned
It's not
yeah cutting thousand jobs...selling headquarters ......and being in red for the 4 years ...and still seeing the ps vita going bad and ps3 barely getting money back...
oh cmon the sony marketing in the last gen was TERRIBLE if not more...
dream431ca
Banned
Not intentionally.
On topic: I would not agree to subsidizing a console. Microsoft threw me off this gen with a pay wall. Next gen is looking worse. I will wait to see what Sony has planned. It looks to be an interesting E3 this year.
They can easily grandfather you in to new plans. That is the real precedent. Phone companies do it with data plans, Microsoft did it with Zune and the Family pack that they no longer offer. I can't think of one example of the opposite happening when a new service is introduced. They can stop the making of the old XBL cards but people that paid for the service would be grandfathered in like most other services allow. I'm only doing the same amount of assuming as you are but with examples.
Edit: And how have they set the price of Live at $15 with this structure? You're paying for more than just Live with payment/month. You're paying for the rest of the console on a monthly basis.
Yes, how anyone could feel differently is beyond you.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I think that was just the tip of the iceberg though. I can see Ms making a big push to get all their consumers hooked into subscriptions. These companies aren't selling hardware and software anymore. They are selling a servicw
i think the only prob was the price...higher than the xbox and of course the production cost...
they pointed to the moon....but honestly buying a ps3 ( that i bought) u didnt get the moon compared to the xbox.....
Iacobellis
Junior Member
Rumors of Kinect 2.0 bundled seem to be why.
Beer Monkey
Member
What Microsoft is doing is EXACTLY what T-Mobile is doing with the Nexus 4. You can get a Nexus 4 at a discount but you have to pay a higher monthly bill than you would on T-Mobile's pay-as-you-go plans.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG---Google-Nexus-4-E960-4G-Mobile-Phone---Black-(T-Mobile)/7408045.p?id=1218844837055&skuId=7408045
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG---Google-Nexus-4-E960-4G-Mobile-Phone---Black-(T-Mobile)/7408045.p?id=1218844837055&skuId=7408045
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Here's how that $15 breaks down.
$5 = Live Gold
$1.67 = Finance fee
$ 8.33 = Console payment
Iacobellis
Junior Member
That's not all to blame on the PS3. In fact, SCE is thriving compared to Sony as a whole.
grimshawish
Banned
Yeah...this isn't just with the Nexus 4...its called a phone contract.
la flama blanca
Banned
I don't think you know how businesses work in the real world. Yes, they made plenty of mistakes and were doing horribly, but to think that Sony is just going to say "goodbye" as a result of those mistakes is hilarious. Cutting thousands of jobs and selling the headquarters is a healthy and proper response to the motivation they have of getting back on their feet. If you think this Sony hasn't change for the better and aren't in a position to dominate this gen, then you need to get your head checked.
Lady Deathstrike
Banned
I personally can't wait to see what Sony and Panasonic have in store for us with their OLED TV offerings.
Officerrob
Banned
WAY to early to be making a claim like that
la flama blanca
Banned
Xbox live's moon
Everyone that bought an Xbox knew they would have to pay a subscription fee to play online. There was no bait-and-switch, so I don't see what you're talking about.
la flama blanca
Banned
Merely my opinion as Sony has hit all the right notes for me as a hardcore gaming consumer specifically.
The picture doesn't represent any false advertising, but people actively thrusting themselves into a smelly butthole of a service that should be free.
Dude, it's not about whether or not the option is financially beneficial to the consumer, it's about what looks immediately more appealing at the point of sale. What you're saying makes complete sense, and if the majority of people in this country thought that way the world would be a better place (although our economy would probably be worse than it is now), but business and advertising is psychological.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
we've already heard live will have new features and tiers
where i said that they r saying "goodbye"?
i said that they would not do again what they passed trought the ps3 gen
this is what kaz said to the wall street journal
" The world has moved on, he said, "We can't just continue to be a great purveyor of hardware products, even though some people expect us to do that."
"We really need to buckle down and be realistic," said Mr. Hirai, who plans a news conference Thursday. "I don't think everybody is on board, but I think people are coming around to the idea that if we don't turn this around, we could be sitting in some serious trouble."
money talking IMHO the ps3/psmove/vita gen...was something that sony if could would totally delete
killer rin
Member
Xbox Live does have a free option, you just can't do multiplayer games or use any of the apps.
Does the $499 version include a XBLG subscription? If the device is always connected, but you can't connect because you don't have gold what will be the point of buying that $499 version? Not having to commit to two years? This is assuming that gold costs the same and has the same access as is current.
$299+($15*24)=$659 (initial outlay $314) vs $499 + ($50 x 2) = $599 (initial outlay $549)
$299+($15*24)=$659 (initial outlay $314) vs $499 + ($50 x 2) = $599 (initial outlay $549)
Sega charged. Sony charged on PS2 in Japan. "Should be free" isn't a compelling argument.
Say Honda puts out a new car and you have to pay for maintenance on it every three months. The next year, Toyota puts out a similar car but charges more while offering free maintenance. Honda is not then obligated to change their terms and offer free maintenance. People agreed to the terms when they purchased the car.
Xbox live's moon
it was meanning that both console gave us good games...and u didnt see the difference on ps3 that would justify the higher price...at least for the first 3/4 years
(was hard for devs to learn how to get the true power of the cell..)
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
MSRP for Live Gold is $60 per year, not $50.
Right now the only ones who charge for online gaming is Microsoft and then only on the Xbox. Pretty sure that crappy service GFWL doesn't charge, Steam doesn't charge, Origin doesn't charge, Nintendo doesn't charge and neither does Sony.
I would say "should be free" makes perfect sense. In fact, it is my opinion that Microsoft KNOWS it should be free and that is why they keep adding service and apps to Gold, to increase it's value.
la flama blanca
Banned
Sorry I interpreted your post that way, but I actually am going to kind of miss Sony being as ambitious tech wise like they had been with the PS3. I hope Marc Cerny pulls through enough to have Microsoft feel the competition of wanting to cater more towards hardcore fans.
NullPointer
Member
Its a very compelling argument. What planet do you live on?
You could also use the "It's free everywhere else", which is also pretty damn compelling.
Zombie James
Banned
Killing_Joke
Member
The cell phone analogy is way off. At least here in US you have 3 options.
1. Buy a new phone at a sub price (usually 99-199) and get locked into a 2 yr contract.
2. Buy a new phone at full price (usually 500+) but NO SERVICE. You still have to lock yourself into a 2 yr contract to get service. So it makes no sense to buy a phone up front.
3. Pay full price but with prepaid, either daily or monthly fees.
You're not paying the rest of the phone throughout the 2 yrs. One shot deal of 99-199. So in this case the sub version the the best deal. If you can afford the monthly bill at least.
I'm all for options, but in the gaming world the options are usually stupid. Either tard packs that nobody wants or sub deals that make no sense in the long run.
$399 stand alone and $499 premium with a bunch of accessories/bigger HDD. Much better deal imo.
1. Buy a new phone at a sub price (usually 99-199) and get locked into a 2 yr contract.
2. Buy a new phone at full price (usually 500+) but NO SERVICE. You still have to lock yourself into a 2 yr contract to get service. So it makes no sense to buy a phone up front.
3. Pay full price but with prepaid, either daily or monthly fees.
You're not paying the rest of the phone throughout the 2 yrs. One shot deal of 99-199. So in this case the sub version the the best deal. If you can afford the monthly bill at least.
I'm all for options, but in the gaming world the options are usually stupid. Either tard packs that nobody wants or sub deals that make no sense in the long run.
$399 stand alone and $499 premium with a bunch of accessories/bigger HDD. Much better deal imo.
This is the thing. People in the circle I was in, including me, used to be proud to pay for Gold back in the day. That was how good the early 360 was, and how strong the brand was at the time.
If they bring it as hard as they did back then, I don't see most consumers caring about paying for Gold unless Sony really knocks it out of the park.
EDIT: This is not to say I think online be a paid service, just saying that I, and many others, really didn't care back then.
Well, MS has a lot more fears to answer coming this unveiling with so many horrible rumors floating around, especially since they've been dragging their feet to unveil it, they've given more time for them to pile up. So much bad stuff there it'll be amazing if they can effectively counter it all.
Sony has just a few lingering doubts thus far going to E3, namely, price of the machine. Oh, and I guess the fit and finish of their hardware to those "gamers" in which the look of a machine dictates purchase if it's worthy to sit in their entertainment center, lol...
Anyways, I think MS comes out swinging. I don't think they'll be able to address everything, but they'll do a good enough job. That financing model looks horrible though. I'm sure Sony will end up doing something like that too though, I mean, they have a financial institution still right?
Sony has just a few lingering doubts thus far going to E3, namely, price of the machine. Oh, and I guess the fit and finish of their hardware to those "gamers" in which the look of a machine dictates purchase if it's worthy to sit in their entertainment center, lol...
Anyways, I think MS comes out swinging. I don't think they'll be able to address everything, but they'll do a good enough job. That financing model looks horrible though. I'm sure Sony will end up doing something like that too though, I mean, they have a financial institution still right?
Glorified G
Member
We don't know anything. All these estimates are baseless conjuncture. A few months ago, the thought of 8 GDDR5 was impossible. Nobody has any clue what went into the R&D into these consoles or what specific deals they have with the vendors.
Bleedorang3
Banned
I hear this a lot on GAF and it's usually from people who you can tell were never going to consider a next gen Xbox in any case.
PS4:
Always Online - Publisher discretion
No Used Games - Publisher discretion
Backwards Compatibility - Please understand, we have none
Gaikai - Coming* Soon after launch, please believe it will work
Entertainment Focus - Please believe our PR that we have no focus on entertainment
Multiple PS+ Tiers - We refuse to talk about it so you'll believe it doesn't exist for as long as possible
For the record I believe that PS+ and XBL will be nearly identical next gen. Sony has seen the money that MS pulls in with XBL, and Microsoft has seen the hardcore gamer backlash. They'll both migrate towards the same services, with only superficial difference between.
i think cerny trying to give the customers the maximum it could without having lots of r&d money behind his shoulder...(we all remember how much sony spent for the CELL r&d)
i think ps4 will be a great console as all the ps console but more..more cheaper
at the same time seen the bad economical momentum at sony if ms dosnt hit hard would be stupid for me
Don't forget how Sony tactfully dodged the question of free online play for PS4:
Shuhei Yoshida said:
I finally let my Gold sub lapse. I was a ten year subscriber to the service. They've lost me from the 360 and I won't be jumping in on this next machine. Sorry guys. You priced your way out of my home. The others give me the same stuff for free or offer me free games for pay (PS Plus). I can't justify it anymore.
If Sony is charging and has used games controls, they'll be gone after they shut down PS3 too.
If Sony is charging and has used games controls, they'll be gone after they shut down PS3 too.
Officerrob
Banned
An option in which consumers are given another choice as to how the they can purchase something shouldn't need to be defended, but this is GAF