Thurott: $299 version of Xbox v.Next will come with a $15/mo XBLG sub, not $10

Goldenroad said:
I disagree wholeheartedly.
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Then why are you even a consumer of electronic goods when they depreciate so quickly? Why even buy consoles at all when there's so much in-built markup in all things sold for them? Reality being what it is, people don't all fall into the hole because of a $40 surcharge when they're getting a $500 device at $300 upfront. Some of you guys want to make this some sort of referendum on consumer spending habits and the current systemic failure and wider irresponsibility that comes from our leaders and constituents. Why? It has zip to do with the topic and is misguided. Stop pretending to be everyone's financial advisor. Buying things isn't all about the numbers since the whole reason we buy them is rooted in something real and personal, not some kind of math problem where we discuss bad investments or good ones. 21st century life, how does it work? Seriously, we buy things to enjoy and be entertained by them, to please those we love, and sometimes simply because we can. Let's stop being crazy and acting as if everyone coming across this isn't smart enough to be left to their own judgment. Next-gen consoles at launch aren't aimed at poor people.
 
Killing_Joke said:
Fair enough. But the "luxury" excuse never worked for any gaming device. Ever. PS3, Vita, 3DS, and WiiU all launched at respectful realistic prices. One thing they all have in common is they bombed at their original price tags.

But who knows. This is all based on rumours anyways. I'll wait to see what's in the box to bitch about the price.
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PS3 was sold at a loss for quite some time (yes, even at $599. I thought it was discovered that Sony actually lost LESS per unit on the $499 model than the $599 model). Your entire argument is falling apart everywhere.

Hell, DVD and CD were considered crazy successful right out of the gate and those two technologies debuted at like $500/700 for low/high end units with software costs of $30 (in 1983... $30 for a CD).

Chances of success are sure as hell based on a ton more things than just cost. Just in your analogy, 3DS, Vita and WiiU all had TERRIBLE launch lineups (IMHO of course). And PS3? Yeah... that was priced SUPER high.. I mean we don't say "$599!!!?!?!?!?" for nothing.

Regardless.. $499 is what it is. If you want to pay the interest on the $299 model, have a blast. If you can't afford the $499 model but genuinely want it.. that sucks I guess. That's basically life.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Then why are you even a consumer of electronic goods when they depreciate so quickly? Why even buy consoles at all when there's so much in-built markup in all things sold for them? Reality being what it is, people don't all fall into the hole because of a $40 surcharge when they're getting a $500 device at $300 upfront. Some of you guys want to make this some sort of referendum on consumer spending habits and the current systemic failure and wider irresponsibility that comes from our leaders and constituents. Why? It has zip to do with the topic and is misguided. Stop pretending to be everyone's financial advisor. Buying things isn't all about the numbers since the whole reason we buy them is rooted in something real and personal, not some kind of math problem where we discuss bad investments or good ones.
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It doesn't matter much in this specific case, but the original comment was too broad. Putting immediate gratification over long term costs can burn you in spectacular ways.
 
ThisWreckage said:
I don't see how in the hell they're going to be able to justify 15 dollars a month if Sony matches the Live experience on their end. Judging from the Sony PS4 event, it looks like Sony isn't going to be caught with their pants down this time around.
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You completely miss the point of what the $15 is, and just try and label it as "they are going to charge $15 a month for Live". In reality, this is how it breaks down:

Vane_MagicCity said:
Here's how that $15 breaks down.

$5 = Live Gold
$1.67 = Finance fee
$ 8.33 = Console payment
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As I said; why would you buy the 299 version. What if it breaks down. Do you need to buy a new one with the sub?
 
Insane Metal said:
Well it's just another of these posts, and most info there are rumors already posted somewhere... and a few made up things... so possibly fake.
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which bits are more made up than others?!

at this point its probably best to wait until the date and start ignoring stuff.

I think real leaks becomes less and less likely given that it is on their campus... everything must be ultra locked at this point.
 
Welp, these are all good ways to not expand the market. I guess they don't care. Just put a ton of features in it and see if the public will bite on subscription gaming. I really didn't think anybody would come close to $500 this generation. Let's see how dumb the public is?

Even if Gold stays $5 a month, you are still paying above and beyond. It's a credit card with no lube. Fuck out of here.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Then why are you even a consumer of electronic goods when they depreciate so quickly? Why even buy consoles at all when there's so much in-built markup in all things sold for them? Reality being what it is, people don't all fall into the hole because of a $40 surcharge when they're getting a $500 device at $300 upfront. Some of you guys want to make this some sort of referendum on consumer spending habits and the current systemic failure and wider irresponsibility that comes from our leaders and constituents. Why? It has zip to do with the topic and is misguided. Stop pretending to be everyone's financial advisor. Buying things isn't all about the numbers since the whole reason we buy them is rooted in something real and personal, not some kind of math problem where we discuss bad investments or good ones. 21st century life, how does it work? Seriously, we buy things to enjoy and be entertained by them, to please those we love, and sometimes simply because we can. Let's stop being crazy and acting as if everyone coming across this isn't smart enough to be left to their own judgment. Next-gen consoles at launch aren't aimed at poor people.
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I don't worry about depreciation with anything I buy, but I also avoid paying interest whenever I possibly can (basically other than my mortgage). I guess maybe I was being a little too judgmental. People can do whatever they want. I just think the smart financial decision is always to avoid paying interest or surcharges whenever you can, put that difference that you might have spent aside, and earn interest on your money. Given that interest rates are absolute shit right now though...I guess, what's the point?
 
Kysen said:
How do they enforce the 2 year contract? It's not like a phone where they just cut the line and then you cant make calls (becomes useless). Unless there is an online verification you could just refuse to pay after the first month and keep the console offline. Then continue to play games.
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Seroiusly? How old are you? If you're like 12 then fine. Understandable why you could think that, having no or not using references from the past.

They'd know the same way other businesses know when you don't pay. Like a credit card, electric, phone bill, etc..they monitor your payment history and base their decision on any type of "grace period" before shutting you off.

They'll be able to shut it off. Making it a brick. Like someone said earlier, if you don't sign in for a bit it becomes useless as signing in every once in a while is how they validate the console.
 
borghe said:
tmobile isn't subsidizing. Massive difference. Tmobile is spreading out the remaining payments interest free, except that you are contracted to a 24 month service agreement with them so they are guaranteed that profit.. Of note, if you choose to get the installment payments from them, at no point during the 24 months are you able to pay off the rest of the phone. Furthermore, the phone is carrier locked as long as you have time left on your contract preventing you (in theory) from taking it to another carrier. Pretty big difference compared to this. Here MS is seeing a much smaller profit (essentially $40 over 2 years) AND at any point you can up and sell your Fusion for FULL USED PRICE and just pay out the remainder of your contract.
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Sorry, I forgot to put quotes around "subsidized" - so now you know what I meant. The point is T-Mobile USA offers a monthly payment plan for phones for no extra cost over the retail price of the phone.

Also you can cancel your T-Mobile plan at any time - you just pay off your remaining balance on the phone and they unlock it for you.

MS is charging you $40 extra just for paying them monthly. T-Mobile USA is not. And Xboxes are forever "locked" to Live in a way that phones are not and can never be.






Tripp Daily said:
I am no accounting genius, but I am pretty sure phone companies roll the cost of the phone into the price of your contract correct?

I agree $40 is high for the amount that is loaned, but both Sony and MS are going to be taking a loss on new hardware (I assume) and the risk of people defaulting or breaking the contract could result in a higher loss that they want to offset. I would never expect companies to give you free money.
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T-Mobile USA now makes it a separate and optional expense. All the other carriers roll subsidies into the contract prices and they are neither optional nor removable.

Also you say you don't expect companies to give you what are basically interest-free loans when T-Mobile USA is doing exactly that... and large companies themselves are able to get basically interest free loans themselves right now - just look at the current interest rates. Why shouldn't you?





Goldenroad said:
Why would anyone ever consider the subsidized model? I mean if you can't afford an XBOX don't buy one. Is anyone really stupid enough to pay more for something that they can't afford in the first place?
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In this case we are talking about people who CAN afford it, even though they are poor, but lower barriers to entry make it a lot more likely that they will.






Robot Pants said:
I don't subscribe to this practice either (unless for a car or a TV maybe) but many MANY people do.
I mean....credit cards.....

But for a 400 dollar console? Come on, son.
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$500+






Goldenroad said:
I know...it's just insane. I can't wrap my head around it. I mean, people wonder why most Western economies are in the shitter right now... it's because of practices like this where people buy shit they can't afford and expect, nay demand, their elected officials to do the same. It scares the hell out of me that I live in this kind of culture.

BTW, I'm not placing any of the blame on Microsoft or the phone companies for engaging in these practices. It's a free market and you have every right to try to make some money where you can
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So the exploitative nature of capitalism itself is to blame, and it will ultimately destroy itself and take entire economies with it?
 
Izick said:
PS3 was a realistic price!?

Wii U was old, mediocre hardware. I don't remember 3DS and Vita prices, but handhelds really have to be cheaper to survive.

I'm not saying I like the price, I'm just saying I don't think it's as outlandish as you make it.
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Wii U may be mediocre to you, but it is not "old hardware" (despite its power output, the chips have been recently engineered - it's no older than what MS/Sony's CPUs are based on, for example) - they are charging less than it costs to make. The PS3 was the same way. IIRC it was over $900/box to Sony. They were charging you $600. Not a bad deal, right? Except the market decided that it was too much for both consoles. Same with the 360 at launch, btw. That is why this is on the table. This is why the hardware isn't as cutting edge this time around from anyone. This is why the exec branches of all the companies want to be less focused on the razor blade model this time around - because they want to make money, not lose shitloads. This is why the word "services" will be likely be heard many times on May 21st.

Metal Gear?! said:
Sorry, I forgot to put quotes around "subsidized" - so now you know what I meant. The point is T-Mobile USA offers a monthly payment plan for phones for no extra cost over the retail price of the phone.

Also you can cancel your T-Mobile plan at any time - you just pay off your remaining balance on the phone and they unlock it for you.

MS is charging you $40 extra just for paying them monthly. T-Mobile USA is not. And Xboxes are forever "locked" to Live in a way that phones are not and can never be.
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MS' extra $40 won't just be money in the pocket. They will give you more warranty and someone needs to be paid to approve and maintain credit.
 
No, I don't mind if the console's price is high because of the parts. If it's 500$ and it runs great looking things then I'm fine with it. If the hardware backs it up then I don't see what the big deal is. 500$ sounds realistic to me.
 
Can't wait to pick up Halo 5 for the Kinectbox at $40 with a 2 year contract of $2 a month for game updates and DLC.
 
Jabba said:
You play PC games for that experience.
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I'm sure that Steam is fantastic, but I've never had a problem with XBL beside it being down a few times, and I was compensated for those few times.

Maybe I'm a sucker, but I don't see paying 6$ a month for online access that's easy to use and secure as being that big of a deal. I never have, and I never likely will. I'm not sure if I'm going to buy a PS4 or Nextbox (obviously), but paying for Gold is one of the last points I'd consider when deciding.
 
I really hoped they would give us a $199.99 upfront with $19.99 a month deal but $299 especially with the gold family plan being apart of the monthly fee is a fantastic value.

Now my only concern is reserving one as soon as they become available. I hope they sell the subscriptions at the online MS Store because I would rather not have to deal with Best Buy and/or Gamestop crowds on launch day.


la_briola said:
What happens when the next box "red rings" and you are on a subscription model?
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If it's anything like the 360 sub it comes with a two year extended warranty. Of course MS are also long past the days of RROD so I doubt it will matter.
 
StevieP said:
MS' extra $40 won't just be money in the pocket. They will give you more warranty and someone needs to be paid to approve and maintain credit.
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The credit checks are outsourced and very cheap for a company like MS. It's a service they're already paying for, in fact.

But you're right, I hadn't considered the extra warranty. In theory, that should be worth the extra cost - assuming some catastrophe on the order of the 360 RROD doesn't happen that ends up giving everyone an effective 5+ year warranty for free.





rudieboy77 said:
I wonder how this would work for someone who is already prepaid into XBL for 2 or 3 years?
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Someone already said that with the current subsidized 360 those extra 2 or 3 years are just tacked on to the end of your 2 year term.
 
$299 Xbox v.Next
$15x24 (360 lol) Xbox Gold
= $659

... and that's the cheapest version?
The thing is, what will happen if the base version of the PS4 costs $449 dollars?
People will see a 400 dollar Xbox, with a 24 month subscription, versus competitor with blu-ray functionality and no sub - albeit at 50 dollars more.
I'm guessing people will lean towards the latter, after realizing that they already have too many subs.
 
Having the option is good.

But... 500 sounds like pretty expensive if the rumours about power are true. Is Kinect 2 supposed to be something super advanced?
 
SquiddyCracker said:
$299 Xbox v.Next
$15x24 (360 lol) Xbox Gold
= $659

... and that's the cheapest version?
The thing is, what will happen if the base version of the PS4 costs $449 dollars?
People will see a 400 dollar Xbox, with a 24 month subscription, versus competitor with blu-ray functionality and no sub - albeit at 50 dollars more.
I'm guessing people will lean towards the latter, after realizing that they already have too many subs.
Click to expand...

Depends on what next Gen Live offers. Which we don't know.
 
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