if this happen (and is what im hoping!)...this will be the gen MEGATON
and flops will not count anymore
and woudl explain also some of the Eric mejdrich microsoft patents
maybe some info bout that?
Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
if this happen (and is what im hoping!)...this will be the gen MEGATON
and flops will not count anymore
and woudl explain also some of the Eric mejdrich microsoft patents
maybe some info bout that?
statham
Member
176 not 178
Baconsammy
Banned
That sounds excellent. I'll most likely be buying another one once Minter's game comes out.
Damn you're right, sorry!
if this happen (and is what im hoping!)...this will be the gen MEGATON
and flops will not count anymore
and woudl explain also some of the Eric mejdrich microsoft patents
maybe some info bout that?
Not possible to do graphic processing in the cloud outside of maybe a server farm, and even then it can only be done for non interactive stuff.
No developer is going to come out and say it's harder to work with the Nextbox and give MS bad PR at this point. However, it doesn't take more than basic logic to see that it's easier to deal with one pool of fast RAM (PS4) than a slower pool of RAM with a chunk of fast ESRAM/EDRAM (Nextbox), given what we know we so far. It doesn't necessarily mean that developers will have a hard time with this design because it's somewhat similar to the 360's
I'm not sure I understand what you mean there.
Giant Panda
Member
So Monday is usually the day new rumors and leaks come out. I wouldn't mind hearing about a couple of MS's first party games. Does anyone else think we will get new rumors tomorrow?
The latency and round trip is too high for it to be practical, a person could be hundreds of milliseconds away from the closest data centre, then what?, and this is before we get into having to actually download the results.
Well from my understanding you can only get a combine bandwith amount for 32MB of data because that's what is rumored to be in the ESRAM, for everything else the DDR3 speed is the one you should be using. However I will admit that I know very little about hardware engineering.
i dont know but here we go
"The farm will be sub 10,000 GPUs for the beta period but it will grow when the cloud Octane rendering moves out of beta. The cloud per hour realtime rendering could be used for gaming, previs and noise free 4K rendering in realtime, the limit would be the latency of your internet or network setup. The company has their own codecs for streaming and encoding in the gaming space and servicing space. The company is however eyeing technology two years ahead. Already today they can do ray tracing in realtime but with some noise. “But that is just a cost problem,” says Urbach, referring to the amount of hardware you can apply to their linear scaling problem. As such there are already two large game companies that are looking at this technology for high end realtime ray traced gaming down the track."
"One possible solution to high end gaming would be a hybrid solution with some local computing on your own GPU and having high end lightmaps, texture maps, voxel maps and more being streamed in from the cloud Octane. The company has already done 25 co-efficient spherical harmonics lighting systems (directional ambient occlusion) – Paul Debevec has actually tested to 8000 coefficients. To give that perspective, on Avatar, Weta used nine coefficients in PantaRay for their pipeline. A lot of this research is an intersection of the LightStage research, spherical harmonics (used commonly in games for realtime performance) and their Octane rendering / cloud rendering."
And what your blabbing about has absolutely nothing to do with something which requires a decent level of interactivity like a video game.
Come back to me when you can download a 8MB frame buffer 60 times a godamn second.
Thats 480MB/s to the data centre
Its not happening.
Ok, we're on the same page then. That's what I was referring to when talking about constantly refilling the 32 MB ESRAM pool. So as long as the ESRAM has the necessary data already written to it, the bus line (the traces which carry the bits of data) from the ESRAM combines with the bus line from the DDR3 RAM to form a peak bandwidth of 170 GB/s to the APU. But the hassle for the devs comes in terms of ensuring that the right data (or any data at all) is getting pushed to the relatively small ESRAM to keep that bandwidth as close to 170 as possible.
But I'm just a lowly EE student studying basic MIPS processors (which is what I should be doing right at this moment).
Iced_Eagle
Member
That's cloud rendering. He's talking about cloud computing.
Cloud computing of graphical content has the same issues, and so does cloud computing of any latency dependent content at all.
i.e. everything in a game.
i really dont know how it work ..they r working to stream videogames using server-side rendering
And its not going to work for a long time because there are so many inherent issues with it until the world gets a decent internet infrastructure its going to be a giant mess the amount of bandwidth required to stream video games is huge.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
What if the cloud is being used for OS features and not graphical computing?
Then it will be a unresponsive pile of junk.
OS needs to run on the actual box.
caches and memory have a much lower latency then your internet connection.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I don't mean the actuall OS itself but features of it. Ha I know that's vague
and if theres a way to stream "ala gaikai" but rendered trough something like octane render?
ok this is sci fi...sorry
what features?.
There would be, and once again its not going to be very responsive this is a worse idea then requiring a constant internet connection your limiting your game market to people who have your servers close buy? really?.
Having a box heavily dependent on cloud computing for either the games or the OS is just as bad as always-online DRM in my opinion. Good luck using that thing within two years of the console being replaced by the next generation and its servers being shut down (and we're taking MS, so let's be honest it'll be more like six months to one year). It's always-online DRM by another name.
Do you have an example? I'm trying to think of a feature that would benefit from this but I can't.
how works the cloud computing for diablo 3? (is just for saving games online?!?!)
Barkley's Justice
Member
There will be no cloud computing component, come on guys...
Gotta look for a trump card man.
Cloud processing will be used in at least a few games within the generation IMO.
Either with graceful degradation where a net connection isn't around or with net required.
It's not so much a trump card for anyone, though, I think. If it's viable, either MS or Sony devs would be in a position to leverage it. Nintendo? No idea if they're interested in that.
Either with graceful degradation where a net connection isn't around or with net required.
It's not so much a trump card for anyone, though, I think. If it's viable, either MS or Sony devs would be in a position to leverage it. Nintendo? No idea if they're interested in that.
Baconsammy
Banned
=). I know what you're talking about. Exciting times. Mostly for the potential of Sony and Microsoft not being twins this coming gen.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Maybe something like Siri on iPhone? That could be cool.
Or something related to Kinect? Giant libraries for speech recognition or gesture interpretation?
Both of these would fit with a box less focussed on games and more focussed on Kinect and non-game stuff, as the rumours suggest the next Xbox is.
Edit: And some of it could probably be used in cool ways in games too.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Apple uses the cloud for several types of computational tasks.
ms siri through kinect?
if it work x5 times better than the original siri would be cool
Baconsammy
Banned
The Siri thing would be related to Kinect since voice and Kinect are one in the same. Whatever they do with voice, it better be a huge step up over what they're offering in Win 8. Voice support in Win 8 is simply atrocious. I'm not being hyperbolic either. It barely registers anything I say correctly. Meanwhile I click on the mic in the Chrome browser and it literally never misses a word and even gets proper nouns correct.
So Siri-like stuff? That could be really cool and by putting that on a cloud it could keep the console from having a huge OS reserve like the rumors claim. I think the OS size is going to be the biggest difference from the rumors once we finally get numbers on it.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Yeah I'm amazed how good Google Voice is. It picks up everything I say even in a relatively noisy environment.
A lot of voice recognition will be handled via the cloud.
Certain AI routines could be handled in the cloud since some of these don't necessarily need to be handled every frame.
Weather patterns could be handled via the cloud.
Pretty much anything that does not need to be computed every frame.
Certain AI routines could be handled in the cloud since some of these don't necessarily need to be handled every frame.
Weather patterns could be handled via the cloud.
Pretty much anything that does not need to be computed every frame.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Not exactly. You would use the cloud computing resources for anything you don't need right away, similar to how MMO developers architect their games to be latency tolerable. For example, you would still perform AI pathfinding locally since that's needed for every frame, but you can run a larger, long-term, more complex simulation in the cloud. If you've seen the game Planetary Annihilation, they do this because running all of the AI locally can be extremely taxing on most people's PC's.
Not everyone would use this for AI of course, developers would find their own use for the extra resources for whatever fits with their game. For example, it would be awesome if multiplayer games used those resources as dedicated servers (all MP games being on dedicated servers for the next-gen xbox would be amazing). There's lots of possibilities that developers could explore. Since the box is rumored (or is it not now? too many rumors...) to be connected to the internet at all times, developers would feel more comfortable to explore ideas like this, since it would essentially always be available to them.
The one problem I see with this is that multi-platform games couldn't make this an essential part of their games, unless Sony is offering something similar (or MS allowed Playstation devs to use the platform too).
16 more days until we can all end this speculation...
Interesting, I didn't think of that! Imagine if you could talk to every NPC naturally using Kinect, and their dialogue would be powered by something like Siri (obviously give it the knowledge that a game character would need, and not a generalized thing). That would be sweet.
Baconsammy
Banned
It never ceases to amaze me. I can have an NBA game on in the background and it picks up everything I say perfectly. Meanwhile Siri just sits there waiting and waiting because it cant discern me from the background noise. Siri is still light years ahead of what's built into Win 8, though, but neither can touch Google. I wonder if that's something Sony would go after in conjunction with their new camera/microphone array.
If games for the new box used this, they would probably be using Azure, which would be useable for Playstation games as well.
Current Kinect already uses the cloud for stuff, it uses TellMe. But I can certainly see them enhancing their stuff.
Iced_Eagle
Member
You don't have to be connected to the internet to use Kinect. Just unplug your 360 and try it.
They do constantly push updates to the voice models when you're connected to the internet though. That's why they released the Voice Studio app so that they could crowd source better voice models to improve Kinect.
Ah okay. I don't have Kinect, but thanks for the clarification.
Ol No Bones
Banned
MS and Sony have both invested heavily in cloud computing. It will happen on some level. Its the future. The people saying its not possible are nuts. This stuff always takes time. Cloud gaming is in the infancy stage to say the least but by 2016, 2017 we can't even imagine the things that will happen in this industry.
eso76
Member
Always online + reserved cores + huge amount of reserved ram would indeed only sound 'justified' by some cloud stuff, but i can't imagine how that could be put to any use.
Unless Microsoft wants everyone to 3d scan the world using Kinect 2.0 and render it in great detail.
Maybe we'll be creating a persistent world in which we can 'move'.
Or maybe we'll all be rendering frames for next pixar movie.
Or something.
It 'could' be used to do some cool thing, but nothing really interactive and nothing worth sacrificing a console's resources for, not that i can think of anyway
But i thought the always online required was debunked a few weeks ago anyway
Unless Microsoft wants everyone to 3d scan the world using Kinect 2.0 and render it in great detail.
Maybe we'll be creating a persistent world in which we can 'move'.
Or maybe we'll all be rendering frames for next pixar movie.
Or something.
It 'could' be used to do some cool thing, but nothing really interactive and nothing worth sacrificing a console's resources for, not that i can think of anyway
But i thought the always online required was debunked a few weeks ago anyway
Of course--but remember, we were hearing the same thing about Cell's cloud-centric design in 2006. Implementation is going to be a killer, as is finding compute-expensive but high-latency tasks to apply it to.
USA - 14 000+ offerings not including individual tv episodes
Canada - 937 offerings not including individual tv episodes.
Pretty sure netflix is mostly a USA thing.
or you could have both.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
That's the only pastebin that is even remotely plausible