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Australian woman raped in UAE, then jailed for 8 months for reporting it

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FyreWulff said:
It's weird when people speak out against it so openly but then proceed to have no problem letting churches like the Catholics and other churches have their own internal law system that they enforce on their congregation.

Laws need to be rational and impartial for this reason. People are basing their civilization structure off a text of a civilization that doesn't exist anymore.
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The Catholic Church does not have a system like Sharia. yes they have procedures and policies for things like annulment of marriage etc. but the Catholic Church does not have a legal system for day to day life so its bogus to even try to compare
 
Log4Girlz said:
Top of my list for any country I'm visiting is research a list of rules laws and customs. This being a predominantly muslim country would have spurred me to research further, particularly sharia law. I don't think it is safe for any western woman to travel to any country that practices sharia law and I'm not the only person to feel that way. Not only was she violated she went to jail for it. That's not just victim blaming thats outright holding them criminally responsible.
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But aren't you almost blaming her for not knowing that it's actually fucking illegal to be a rape victim in UAE?
 
antonz said:
The Catholic Church does not have a system like Sharia. yes they have procedures and policies for things like annulment of marriage etc. but the Catholic Church does not have a legal system for day to day life so its bogus to even try to compare
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Excommunication is used to enforce Church doctrine and law. And happens in the United States.
 
Orayn said:
I would really like it someone from Muslim-GAF could explain what kind of horrible interpretation of sharia law leads to a conviction like this. Is it really that cut and dry, or might there be room for modern, secular ethics to work their way in?
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All shariah laws in all countries are essentially the reason there needs to be a separation of religion and state as called by some muslim leaders yesterday. First rule of real islamic law, social punishments do not apply on non muslims. Second rule, it does not apply to any modern muslim country either. All these so called shariah rules as screwed up, no muslim can defend this because 1. A muslim raped a woman, that in itself shows an imperfect society. F'd up

http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/c...uslim-leaders-calls-separation-religion-state
 
So terrible.

I would not have expected her to know about that kind of law. Most of the touristy shit I see on Dubai just tells you things like, "don't show public displays of affection" etc. That, and non-married couples cannot share a hotel room. I mean that shit is stupid but it's not nearly as outrageous as this...
 
GoddyofAus said:
Of course, we don't want to piss off the UAE and their rich Royal Families, lest we miss out on all that juicy Oil.

As soon as she realized what happened to her, she should have went straight to the Embassy and stayed there. The putrid, depraved nature of the UAE should be common knowledge by now. Dubai is too much like Mos Eisley to be considered ironic:

"You will never find a bigger hive of scum and villainy".
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And here are the storm troopers:

Manchester-City-Celebrations-Trophy-Premier-L_2764683.jpg


Fuck this team and fuck their owners.
 
UAE’s strict sharia laws, if the perpetrator does not confess, a rape cannot be convicted without four adult Muslim male witnesses.
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WTF? So how can a rapist get convicted? Especially if the rape is done with multiple perpetrators acting together against one victim? What kind of BS is this?
 
Maninthemirror said:
Its a good thing the raped victim is not always jailed in UAE

http://m.gulfnews.com/news/uae/crim...g-two-women-at-knife-point-in-dubai-1.1175276

http://m.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/courts/men-who-raped-dubai-expat-have-10-year-terms-upheld

http://m.thenational.ae/news/uae-ne...raped-and-forced-into-prostitution-court-told


Still fucked up. Its also believed that dubai is a hub for human trafficking into europe and south america
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Why bother posting the times it didn't happen? It doesn't matter how often it doesn't happen, it matters how often it does happen. That's like posting stories of all the times a person didn't get robbed.

If it happens at all, that is too much.
 
Dead Man said:
Why bother posting the times it didn't happen? It doesn't matter how often it doesn't happen, it matters how often it does happen. That's like posting stories of all the times a person didn't get robbed.

If it happens at all, that is too much.
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Refering specifically to the use of this aspect of shariah law which jails the victim, nothing else, i think you misunderstood the post, no one is saying its not dumb, but its a good thing that all rape victims are not jailed and some judges have common sense.
 
Does this 'law' or interpretation of the law actually make sense to citizens of the UAE?

'Did you hear that Rape victim only got 8 months in prison!'
'Wow, talk about lenient, this country is going to hell in a handbasket.'
 
lexi said:
Does this 'law' or interpretation of the law actually make sense to citizens of the UAE?

'Did you hear that Rape victim only got 8 months in prison!'
'Wow, talk about lenient, this country is going to hell in a handbasket.'
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Nope, uae is ruled by princes and clergies, there is no democracy, its a bad place for non uae even other arabs if ur not a citizen if u get in trouble
 
fallagin said:
Plus people would be burned at the stake for all kinds of inane bullshit at one point under catholicism. Religion should not have a place in government period.
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Yep, apart from following religious leadership on a religious level, they should have no influence over politics, religion should always be a personal thing.
 
How did the courts come up with the punishment? As far as I know, you only punish the victim if it turns out that her/his accusation was false. Just because you didn't have witnesses, and the rapists didn't confess, you don't punish the woman. WTF

Did they physically examine her at the hospital and find evidence that she had intercourse? Was she not bruised? It seems like the police did a lousy job investigating.
 
Maninthemirror said:
Yep, apart from following religious leadership on a religious level, they should have no influence over politics, religion should always be a personal thing.
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Yeah, religion should be allowed to influence government to some extent depending on representatives chosen, but it should not be the building block of a government.
 
Smellycat said:
How did the courts come up with the punishment? As far as I know, you only punish the victim if it turns out that her/his accusation was false. Just because you didn't have witnesses, and the rapists didn't confess, you don't punish the woman. WTF

Did they physically examine her at the hospital and find evidence that she had intercourse? Was she not bruised? It seems like the police did a lousy job investigating.
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This is uae... They screw over fellow muslims and look down on them whoever is not Arab. I know ive been there, i went with a pakistani passport they treated me like crap, i went with my canadian passport, they treated me like loyalty


fallagin said:
Yeah, religion should be allowed to influence government to some extent depending on representatives chosen, but it should not be the building block of a government.
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Nope, religion and politics should never mix, its a deadly combination for those who are not excellent people and religious
 
Maninthemirror said:
Its a good thing the raped victim is not always jailed in UAE
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It's a good thing the raped victim is not jailed in any law except Sharia.

Maninthemirror said:
Nope, religion and politics should never mix, its a deadly combination for those who are not excellent people and religious
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So you're saying no country should base any laws on Islam? I agree. Things like this happen when they do.
 
SomewhatGroovy said:
Anecdotal. I'm from Houston Tx and my mother is from Arkansas. We lived in Dubai for 14 years in peace.

I take my wife every other year.

This story sucks but it says more about the government and laws than it does about the people living there.
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Are you white? That would explain why, they treat indian pakistanis descent like crap mostly
 
Just to be clear folks, this is twisted "sharia" law made by the country, not proper islamic law being upheld.

Rape actually falls under hiraba in terms of crime according to islam. This is specific

The focus in a hiraba prosecution is the accused rapist and his intent and physical actions, and not second-guessing the consent of the rape victim. Hiraba does not require four witnesses to prove the offense. Circumstantial evidence, medical data and expert testimony form the evidence used to prosecute such crimes.
 
It would benefit people asking about the Islamic viewpoint to read the large quote posted earlier in this thread attributed to former chief justice of Pakistan Mufti Taqi Uthmani to see the Islamic viewpoint. Here it is again: http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/prow2006.htm

Rape is not the same as adultery. Rape is considered both a violent crime and a sexual crime, not a sexual crime such as adultery. Adultery requires four witnesses. The four witnesses rule is there to prevent wrongful accusations of adultery because the penalty is harsh.

Zina (not "zima" as someone who was offering his mistaken opinion about the matter stated) is an umbrella term covering illegal sexual intercourse. It includes adultery (extramarital sex), premarital sex, and rape. The severity of these crimes is as follows from lowest to highest: premarital sex, adultery, rape. The punishment for premarital sex is lashing. The punishment for adultery is death. The punishment for rape is death of the rapist and no blame upon the woman.

The four witness rule only applies to adultery. In the link and the quote provided earlier in the thread, the Mufti actually argues against the Pakistani government's plans to consider rape as merely an act of lewdness, which would remove the punishment of death for the rapist.
 
Terra Firma said:
It would benefit people asking about the Islamic viewpoint to read the large quote posted earlier in this thread attributed to former chief justice of Pakistan Mufti Taqi Uthmani to see the Islamic viewpoint. Here it is again: http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/prow2006.htm

Rape is not the same as adultery. Rape is considered both a violent crime and a sexual crime, not a sexual crime such as adultery. Adultery requires four witnesses. The four witnesses rule is there to prevent wrongful accusations of adultery because the penalty is harsh.

Zina is illegal sexual intercourse. It includes adultery (extramarital sex), premarital sex, and rape. The severity of these crimes is as follows from lowest to highest: premarital sex, adultery, rape. The punishment for premarital sex is lashing. The punishment for adultery is death. The punishment for rape is death of the rapist and no blame upon the woman.

The four witness rule only applies to adultery. In the link and the quote provided earlier in the thread, the Mufti actually argues against the Pakistani government's plans to consider rape as merely an act of lewdness, which would remove the punishment of death for the rapist.
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Fucking seriously? Holy shit at how utterly and unarguably ass fucking backwards that is.

So reading your post, what exactly was the woman jailed for? Not that it really matters since she shouldn't have been jailed for any reason.
 
Korey said:
Don't go to the middle east. Seriously.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say never go, but don't be so naive. People in the west are sheltered from the reality of the world. Why any woman would want to go from living in Australia to the UAE is beyond me. Maybe she was promised good money, but it's never like the tourist brochures show you.

If you took a poll today about which is the worst country in the middle east for women or human rights, they'd write Iran. Despite the fact that Iran provides more rights to women than Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Kuwait, Jordan, etc.

These are theocracy type countries. If you aren't religious, you won't really understand. I don't blame the victim at all. But this stuff happens all the time. The fact she was a white Australian is the reason we probably even heard about it, if she was some random woman, it wouldn't have been heard outside the West.

Just sickening how society favors the men so much in these countries.
 
farisr said:
Well actually to be more precise. Islamically, if you're unmarried and have sex with someone else, you get lashings or an equivalent punishment.
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Yea...that is definitely the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

If you're married and have sex with someone else (adultery), it requires a confession from you (4 times), 4 men as witnesses who also attest to the fact and you are punished to death. (basically a lot of loops to jump through because the punishment is severe and meant to act as a deterrent for others).

This woman was supposedly involved in "illicit sexual relations" with the other men according to the judge (which is incorrect since rape is in a violent crimes category, not sexual intercourse category according to islam, so it doesn't require 4 witnesses or a confession), and was sentenced a lashings equivalent according to him which was 8 months in jail. Article doesn't mention the men at all. If it was proven that she had sex with the men in question, the men should have also got the same punishment at the very least.

Basically, entirely country-based prejudiced court proceedings, not the way the procedure would have gone if Islamic law was actually followed properly.
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So basically the judge was like "lol you can't prove you were raped so it was illicit sexual relations, off to jail with you."

Yea...that's pretty fucking crazy as well.
 
Terra Firma said:
It would benefit people asking about the Islamic viewpoint to read the large quote posted earlier in this thread attributed to former chief justice of Pakistan Mufti Taqi Uthmani to see the Islamic viewpoint. Here it is again: http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/prow2006.htm

Rape is not the same as adultery. Rape is considered both a violent crime and a sexual crime, not a sexual crime such as adultery. Adultery requires four witnesses. The four witnesses rule is there to prevent wrongful accusations of adultery because the penalty is harsh.

Zina (not "zima" as someone who was offering his mistaken opinion about the matter stated) is an umbrella term covering illegal sexual intercourse. It includes adultery (extramarital sex), premarital sex, and rape. The severity of these crimes is as follows from lowest to highest: premarital sex, adultery, rape. The punishment for premarital sex is lashing. The punishment for adultery is death. The punishment for rape is death of the rapist and no blame upon the woman.

The four witness rule only applies to adultery. In the link and the quote provided earlier in the thread, the Mufti actually argues against the Pakistani government's plans to consider rape as merely an act of lewdness, which would remove the punishment of death for the rapist.
Click to expand...
I'm not as interested in a scholarly viewpoint, as in what actually happened. You know, jailing a woman who reported being raped.
 
Australians, if you are travelling overseas then checking out http://smartraveller.gov.au/ would be a good idea, this is what it says for the UAE in the laws section;

Victims of sexual assault: It is possible that victims of sexual assault may be charged by UAE authorities for engaging in sex outside of marriage and be dealt with according to the criminal law. There have been cases in the UAE where sexual assault victims have been imprisoned after reporting an incident to local police or upon seeking medical assistance. Sexual assault victims should contact the Australian Embassy in Abu Dhabi or Consulate-General in Dubai, or the Consular Emergency Centre in Canberra, as quickly as possible to obtain relevant information on these issues and guidance on what support services may be available. Consular officers cannot provide legal or medical advice but can provide lists of English-speaking service providers who may be able to assist you in this process. Contact details are listed under Where to get help.
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http://smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/United_Arab_Emirates
 
magenta said:
Australians, if you are travelling overseas then checking out http://smartraveller.gov.au/ would be a good idea, this is what it says for the UAE in the laws section;



http://smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/United_Arab_Emirates
Click to expand...

Consular officers cannot provide legal or medical advice but can provide lists of English-speaking service providers who may be able to assist you in this process.
Click to expand...

In other words, don't bother doing anything, we can't help lol. Wankers.
 
farisr said:
It was either that or something along the lines of "false accusation"

I don't know about UAE's specific laws, all I can clarify is whether an islamic procedure was followed or not from the facts presented. And usually when a story is newsworthy in regards to "sharia law" it's almost guaranteed that islamic procedure wasn't followed.
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Four pages and we finally have a sane response.
 
Terra Firma said:
Zina (not "zima" as someone who was offering his mistaken opinion about the matter stated) is an umbrella term covering illegal sexual intercourse. It includes adultery (extramarital sex), premarital sex, and rape. The severity of these crimes is as follows from lowest to highest: premarital sex, adultery, rape. The punishment for premarital sex is lashing. The punishment for adultery is death. The punishment for rape is death of the rapist and no blame upon the woman..
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phew, for a second I thought the rules were unreasonable.
 
farisr said:
It was either that or something along the lines of "false accusation"

I don't know about UAE's specific laws, all I can clarify is whether an islamic procedure was followed or not from the facts presented. And usually when a story is newsworthy in regards to "sharia law" it's almost guaranteed that islamic procedure wasn't followed.
Click to expand...

So innocent until proven guilty isn't a thing there I see. I find the entire idea of any of those punishments towards women to be ridiculous and just completely fucking crazy. Lashing or prison time for premartial sex? Death for adultery?! Prison for not being able to prove you were raped, or prison time for false accusation of rape? Yea...fuck all of that.
 
Angelus Errare said:
So innocent until proven guilty isn't a thing there I see. I find the entire idea of any of those punishments towards women to be ridiculous and just completely fucking crazy. Lashing or prison time for premartial sex? Death for adultery?! Prison for not being able to prove you were raped, or prison time for false accusation of rape? Yea...fuck all of that.
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Why are we conflating these all these issues, the court did something messed up but why are then using it as an opportunity to start slinging mud?
 
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