youngwerther
Banned
What the fuck are you talking about?
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'Atomic Bomb-Like' Tornado Damage in Oklahoma
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Due to shared walls a row house would only have the front wall and rear wall exposed to the storm winds. You would not have the risk of debris or wind hitting the interior walls thus providing those two walls extra strength. Because of this less surface area of your home is exposed to the winds and debris. Is it really that hard to comprehend?
youngwerther
Banned
Do you think an F5 tornado is like a game of Battleships or something?
No but I think it is reasonable to consider the engineering of a home in regards to structural integrity in high winds. I don't even see how battleship applies.
I understand that. But I feel that due to the engineering of them.
These.
Would hold up better than this.
I know the winds are very powerful but the difference in engineering must have a difference. 4 walls for debris to hit vs 2. In a row house I can position myself against a wall that isn't feeling the full force of the storm vs a free standing home. I know both will receive damage but I believe the row homes would fare better.
The surface area of a row home that is experiencing the full winds and debris of the storm is less than a free standing home and it seems that physics would back up the idea of less damage.
No, just No
2011 Tuscaloosa Tornado an EF4 (under criticism, because 64 dead from it alone and 2nd or 3rd costliest tornado ever, should be an easy EF5)
That was from between 180 and 190 mph winds.
User 100115
Banned
Basically, the only way to protect dwellings from a tornado is to build everything under ground.
youngwerther
Banned
I think the part that annoyed me was when you started throwing around phrases like "the difference in engineering must have a difference" and "structural integrity" when you aren't actually basing this on anything other than conjecture.
I understand that. My post isn't that damage will be severe. It is simple in regards to the severity of destruction. Even if a row house was a 8/10 destruction vs a free standing 9/10 destruction that is a difference. To simply claim that all building, all designs and all methods of engineering perform the same in a tornado is frankly insuffiecient to me because given all the variables of construction I refuse to believe that the damage is uniform regardless of the engineering behind the structure.
I'm basing it on the idea which I refuse in that the engineering of a building has ZERO impact on the overall damage.
youngwerther
Banned
"8/10 destruction vs a free standing 9/10 destruction"
"frankly insuffiecient to me"
"Given all the variables of construction"
"I refuse to believe"
Is this a joke? If I'm being trolled just tell me. I'll let it happen but just tell me.
"frankly insuffiecient to me"
"Given all the variables of construction"
"I refuse to believe"
Is this a joke? If I'm being trolled just tell me. I'll let it happen but just tell me.
it flattened a school.. and no, it would turn everything inside those homes into swiss cheese from the debris. your best luck is literally underground, locked in.
Sort of. Basements are the way to go in this area.
Necromanti
Member
It would seem the engineering, materials, and cost required to even begin attempting to build a "tornado-proof" house is worlds beyond what is feasibly possible or reasonable. What would be more reasonable would be more research into making affordable and easy-to-construct safe rooms.
I need to research into if skyscrapers or domed stadiums have ever gotten a full blown hit from an EF4 or EF5. Closest I can think of, is the Georgia Dome got clipped by one, but I don't think it was "a full hit."
I'm thinking, the skeletal structure of a skyscraper might/should still be standing. It's problem is, all the walls and windows of each floor have blown out, and odds are, anything on the floors went with them, leaving just the skeletal structure. But hey, "it's still standing"
I'm thinking, the skeletal structure of a skyscraper might/should still be standing. It's problem is, all the walls and windows of each floor have blown out, and odds are, anything on the floors went with them, leaving just the skeletal structure. But hey, "it's still standing"
Jesus. I'm not debating these things. I'm simply trying to see if a difference in structure would affect damage from a storm. You guys apparently believe that no matter what the design of the structure they will all suffer exactly the same from a storm. I guess I need to make myself clearer. I am talking about the difference between half a wall standing and no wall standing.
I'm NOT saying tornado proof.
Necromanti
Member
I'm saying one that can withstand the force of such a tornado, or even reduce the damage to such an extent for the costs/engineering to be worth it.
EDIT: Maybe something like this would interest you.
This or this would be more realistic, though.
User 100115
Banned
Well, yeah, basements to protect lives, but full dwellings would have to be built completely underground in order to protect them from tornados. There isn't a lot you can do to strengthen a building against them.
Half a wall vs no wall is basically the same thing; both houses are totaled, in both homeowners were just as likely to lose their lives if they didn't seek shelter.
User 100115
Banned
Eee, double post, sorry.
whats the most practical solution though? of course it's been thought out, but it's too costly, so you build a basement/bombshelter instead.
no one is arguing that a structure can survive, but why risk it? even if a building is standing, inside would be absolute chaos if it were to be hit. broken glass, metal, wood, etc become like bullets.
And this I guess is the disconnect. I'm not talking about human survival, just structural integrity.
It is simply a thought on structural integrity.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...62e07fe-c269-11e2-914f-a7aba60512a7_blog.html
Lol, you go, girl. Actually a little surprised to see an atheist in Oklahoma. Hope she doesn't get flack from her family.
so one one giant home made up of little homes is better than one small home structurally.
no shit.
Remember, most brick homes built now in America are just brick verneer, basically a shell around a wood frame. Not really all that better than siding or whatever. Load bearing brick construction is a different game, but not many could afford that these days. None of that would really matter for these types of storms anyway.
User 100115
Banned
Considering that structural integrity would be completely compromised in both hypotheticals, I don't understand how it would make a difference. Half a wall standing vs no wall standing both mean the house would have to be bulldozed. So there is no reason to even speculate about it.
Dave_6
Member
They more than likely are. There are still tree 'remnants' like that around here stripped of bark. There were also some streets here where patches of pavement was ripped up (from the April 27th storm).
I live in Pleasant Grove, which is where it hit after it left Tuscaloosa and Concord/Hueytown. It was at it's peak strength when it hit here as there were homes that even the foundation was gone and basements collapsed. IMO it was an F5 as it went through here; that was something I will NEVER forget.
I'm an atheist in Oklahoma too.
Probably not as uncommon as you'd think in the metro. Still less than other major cities, but I know more than a few myself.
No, I think it was hilarious and needed to be said. I'm tired of people offering their prayers as help. Your prayers will do exactly jackshit.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Yeah, I was in McCalla when they went through. The big one went 5 miles north of us, while 2 or 3 small tornado's were south of us (the ones that went through West Blocton). Just a crazy day, watching it live as it started and tore through T-Town. When they showed tracking movements, it really did look like it was coming right at us (as I'm sure you had that same feeling). Like "oh snap...that's 5-10 minutes away. Is there really a safe enough place to survive this?"
Pleasant Grove hasn't had any luck avoiding Tornado's, 98 and 2011.
Once the front and backs are compromised, it's game over. Doesn't matter if there's a wall standing still if everything else around it is gone.
But yeah, once the front and back is gone, the rest of the walls just fall like dominoes.
Tweeting about it on the internet on the other hand will do a whole lot.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
What is the casualty numbers for this? is it unclear yet? many missing?
I can't find an article that mentions anything about it...
I can't find an article that mentions anything about it...
I've been hearing that basements aren't common in the area that was hit. Why on earth would basements not be pretty much mandatory in all of Oklahoma and the rest of that area of the country that are hit with devastating tornadoes every year? I live in Indiana and I'm surprised at how few houses around here have basements when we have severe storms every year.
Because the soil makes it cost-prohibitive.
From what little I know, most house failures are due to roof damage or failures. The wind catches under the eves or a hole in the roof and turns the roof into effectively a parachute. Once the roof comes off there's barely anything holding the walls against horizontal sheer. The corners hold out as long as they can but the massive wind against the large wall easily overpowers them. Once you lose your ceiling rafters your house is pretty much toast in the horizontal winds.
iamaustrian
Member
almost nothing can stand a full grown F5 twister except an underground bunker.
These things sandblast the bark off trees, lift up trains and suck up asphalt off the street.
Like many mentioned already: the main problem is the debris. they found skeletonized people after strong tornados because the combination of sand and strong wind sandblasted the skin and flesh off their bones.
I'm very interested in twisters since my childhood and I know many things about them. the power they are able to generate is terrifying to say at least.
Sandblasted Tree:
asphalt sucked off streets:
you know how much force it takes to bend a steel beam?
These things sandblast the bark off trees, lift up trains and suck up asphalt off the street.
Like many mentioned already: the main problem is the debris. they found skeletonized people after strong tornados because the combination of sand and strong wind sandblasted the skin and flesh off their bones.
I'm very interested in twisters since my childhood and I know many things about them. the power they are able to generate is terrifying to say at least.
Sandblasted Tree:
asphalt sucked off streets:
you know how much force it takes to bend a steel beam?
JasonUresti
Member
Indeed, steel and heavy concrete gets twisted and smashed to pieces in these things.
Even some of these tornado proof house concepts still have a pretty high degree of being torn apart in the debris field, or if a big truck or piece of farm equipment weighing 10+ tons gets thrown like a softball into your wall.
Even some of these tornado proof house concepts still have a pretty high degree of being torn apart in the debris field, or if a big truck or piece of farm equipment weighing 10+ tons gets thrown like a softball into your wall.
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
the guy is quoted in that as saying, "you would need a concrete bunker".
So yeah, there is no tornado proof home. just underground dwellings
"Tornado-proofing" a structure can only go so far. Being deep underground is your best bet to stay safe; an EF4 or EF5 tornado that directly hits your house does not care what your house is made of. Even if you can build a structure that somehow stands up to near-300 MPH winds, it's not likely it can withstand a barrage of debris such as train cars being thrown around like styrofoam.
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
Not read too much into this yet but I've just seen the video of the woman finding her dog during an interview and I nearly teared up.
Such devastation, truly heatbreaking
Such devastation, truly heatbreaking
bengraven
Member
Can we seriously stop bitching about how OK people build their houses?
For fuck's sake, I get it that we're trying to discuss how to further prevent this kind of tragedy, but some people are coming off as "Why didn't they do this in the first place?". Now is not the fucking time.
For fuck's sake, I get it that we're trying to discuss how to further prevent this kind of tragedy, but some people are coming off as "Why didn't they do this in the first place?". Now is not the fucking time.
lol really? bent steel but the aluminum shack next to them is fine.
There' also more material to fall on the occupants. In an Ef4 or above (which exceeds any cyclone or hurricane rating scale) you are only safe underground or in a structure that is reinforced enough to withstand a bomb.
jamesinclair
Banned
So this thread is full of know-it-alls claiming building a basement is "impossible" or "unfeasible" in Oklahoma. Turns out, that was a massive load of bull.
NYT had a large article today about it. The cost? A paltry $4,000 in a new home.
And only 10% of the homes build which were destroyed last time have one. Oklahoma refuses to regulate Tornado safety standards - not even schools are required to have any shelter.
NYT had a large article today about it. The cost? A paltry $4,000 in a new home.
And only 10% of the homes build which were destroyed last time have one. Oklahoma refuses to regulate Tornado safety standards - not even schools are required to have any shelter.
iamaustrian
Member
those steel beams are from a former building standing there.
I think they left them there as a showcase or "warning"
It's not bullshit, it actually is harder to build a basement in Oklahoma than in many other places. The red clay soil is extremely susceptible to water and heat (as a homeowner, I can verify this) so basements are extremely prone to cracking and leaking. Nobody said it's impossible, but there are real reasons that there are few basements.
The best solution IMO is to require in-ground tornado safety shelters to be built in new constructions, and for the state/FEMA to subsidize their installation in existing homes. Either that, or requiring residents to have escape plans to buildings that do have basements (churches, courthouses, etc.) in the event of a storm.
At the same time, let's remember how random and unpredictable tornadoes are. This isn't like Hurricane Sandy when we can be reasonably sure what the consequences of another storm will be. Investing massively in tornado shelters may save some lives, but events in which an underground shelter is necessary are exceedingly rare.
How much would an underground bunker cost that could hold 500 students and 100 staff? Fuck off.
I'm sure they could build a bank vault the size of a gymnasium since it's so economically feasible.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Holy shit? A piece of wood stabbed right through concrete!?
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