Support NeoGAF

[ii Stryker]

For those stating cable is on the way out...where do you get your internet from? Cable is tied to internet by most providers and both are 'discounted' if you opt for only one. Everyone I know has a bundle deal and a cable box under at least one tv in the house.

Sure people can dvr and watch later...but wouldn't that also be viewable in b1? Also sports are usually watched live for best effect...pulling up fantasy stats during a commercial break would sound good to me.

While other methods are gaining ground cable is far from being dead.

The argument is cable TV is on its way out not the material that is used to facilitate the tech.
More people are viewing their TV programs on demand either later with use of a DVR or through streaming services like Hulu or Netflix.

The TV switching is a novelty that will ultimately go unused and it only confuses the messaging "who is this device for?"

 

[KYZR]

I can't really make a reasonable call as to whether the focus on Live TV is a good or bad move by Microsoft as I am outside of the US. But at least MS has pretty much all the bases covered here in the UK when it comes to streaming/ VoD content. Would like to see an more expanded interaction with Live Sky TV and BBC, but I wont be too bummed if there isn't as I almost always catch shows after they have aired.

 

[ironcreed]

From The Verge:

The problem is that the demoes weren't real — the Xbox One's TV integration is the same familiar nightmare we've known for nearly 20 years now. Instead of actually integrating with your TV service, the One sits on top of it: you plug your cable box's HDMI cable into the Xbox, which overlays the signal with its own interface. If you're lucky enough to own a newer cable box, you'll get to change channels directly through the HDMI connection, but most people will find themselves using the One's included IR blaster to control their cable or satellite boxes — a failure-prone one-way communication system that stubbornly refuses to die.

If this sounds familiar to you, it's because it's exactly the same way Google's flailing Google TV platform works. (Google TV even had an NBA demo when it launched in 2011.) If you're a little older it should be even more familiar: it's exactly how Microsoft's own doomed webTV platform worked. We've been overlaying fancy interfaces on top of cable signals and praying for IR blasters to adequately control the boxes for years now, and it's never worked — the content and information on your cable box is too valuable to relegate it to second place, and jumping back and forth between interfaces is irritating and stupid.

What's more, these systems only really work for live television, which you probably aren't watching. Want to watch a show recorded on your DVR? There's no way for the Xbox One to know about it, so you have to use the DVR interface. Found a great show using the One's search and discovery tools and want to record the season? Time to switch to the DVR interface again. IR blaster miss a channel change? The One's guide and channel bar will show different information than the cable box. The cable box is the canonical interface for television, and every attempt to usurp or overlay it has failed.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/43...from-google-tv

 

[ShinAmano]

The argument is cable TV is on its way out not the material that is used to facilitate the tech.
More people are viewing their TV programs on demand either later with use of a DVR or through streaming services like Hulu or Netflix.

The TV switching is a novelty that will ultimately go unused and it oy confuses the messaging "who is this device for?"

So the assumption is xb1 can't play your dvrd stuff...or set that recording by voice?

 

[dem]

voice commands are retarded. Your hands are much quicker than your mouth.

tv is dead. especially broadcast tv.

I honestly dont know what they where thinking.

If I want to watch Seinfeld... its a lot easier to say "Xbox When is Seinfeld on?" Then to try to type in seinfeld with a remote control

If there is one practical application for voice control.. its tv.

 

[FStop7]

Outdated as fuck.

They're still clinging to WebTV.

It's not 1998 any more.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

only on gaf, cable tv doesn't matter lmao. the hate for this console is retarded right now.

You're missing the point. The discussion is about how people are moving away from tradition TV, which is a very relevant point indeed. Ratings for networks are down, streaming services are getting more popular, and most importantly (and this is where console gaming is affected) people spend more of their free time on their smart phones and tablets.

Microsoft recently put out an iSupply looking graph that predicted console sales would be up next gen over the current one.

And they obviously think that enhancing TV will get them there. They're dead wrong, imo.

- The WiiU is not going to take off and sell 90 million
- People are spending more and more of their free time on their smart phones.

There are other reasons as well, but I don't think the next gen is going to turn out the way Microsoft expects.

If I want to watch Seinfeld... its a lot easier to say "Xbox When is Seinfeld on?" Then to try to type in seinfeld with a remote control

If there is one practical application for voice control.. its tv.

This is one cool feature, I agree. I wonder how long it will be before Motorola and others update their DVR's with this.

 

[Woorloog]

I agree with this completely. If you read GAF, it almost sounds like the Xbox One won't be able to play games. The games are coming, but seeing a big push as an entertainment box is great. You either get the TV stuff now or at e3. Hopefully, they saved games for e3, but I think a lot of assumptions are on here (just like I'm assuming that they are saving games for e3).

I'm surprised so many people don't watch LIVE sports. To me, its the only show I have to watch live or I get easily spoiled.

They gloss over the hardware which is relatively important for gamers (vague details mostly, press is still basing things on leaked specs), they reveal a bunch of anti-consumer features (targeting gamers specifically, with a lot of conflicting information) and don't show any games properly.
Yeah, i get the focus on other stuff, leaving games for E3 (not a bad idea in theory, but the execution sucked), but they could have shown something. Quantum Break was a bad teaser, and the others were multi-plats.
Of course people are pissed off.

 

[Tobor]

Great...but like it or not there are tens of millions of people who won't dump cable anytime soon.

Yep. And in 5 years there will be far less. 10, even fewer. What you don't do is build your product to cater to a shrinking market. You fight for the new growing market, and reap the benefits once it's mature.

But, hey, like I said before, it's classic Ballmer. He can't see 5 days ahead, let alone 5 years.

 

[RibMan]

We were expecting the cable integration before the conference, and what we got was a double-down strategy with TV/game tie-ins, game-to-TV initiatives, and cable box integration to layer the Xbox experience onto your existing service.

This goes hand in hand with the claims they've made last decade about wanting to claim the living room with a set top box, but what I have to wonder is...hasn't the living room changed so much in the last 5 years that their heavy emphasis on people watching TV programming is in need of a little revision? I know there'll always be a crowd of people that always watch TV/cable, but habits have really shifted since streaming became widespread, tablets and phones became the new entertainment, and Rokus and Apple TVs began replacing cable boxes.

This conference was the tip of the iceberg I'm sure, but what they showed was seriously emphasizing their belief that TV is just as relevant as gaming to their business now. Do you guys think that they can have an impact at all? Is live TV/cable TV the same force it was back when 360 launched?

Interesting perspective. I think it's clear (to Microsoft at least) that they've already lost the portable markets. The Zune, the Kin, the Nokia "partnership" and the Surface were all meant to provide a firm foot in the mobile space. Thus far, all have failed in giving Microsoft a new source of immense profits.

With the iPhone, Apple found the holy grail of portable tasking and content consumption. With the new Xbox, Microsoft are hoping to find the holy grail of the living room - the one device that serves everything.

I think the biggest screen in the house can become a very powerful way of consuming and interacting with content and services, so I definitely think the TV can become the force that it once was. I do, however, believe that innovations in wearable computing will be key in revolutionizing the Television, so hopefully Microsoft aren't ignoring this space.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Smart HDTV have have streaming services and do many things like phones and work outside USA too, Xbox One TV features sound really pointless to me.

Yeah, Smart-TVs will be a real pain for the XBO in a few years.

 

[Spawnling]

I think they're shooting for the wrong audience. More people aren't watching classic TV anymore, they're moving to different services like Netflix and Hulu. I think it was a bad move, they should have came out guns blazing with games, Games, GAMES!

But they're saving that dog and pony show for E3.

 

[VillageBC]

It's outdated, but they did primarily highlight sports. The only reason I actually still have cable and kind of the primary reason to have cable these days.

 

[HokieJoe]

If the X1 fails, expect Ballmer to be given a rather unceremonious boot. I say don't let the door hit you on the way out. Any X2 reboot should employ the services of Jay Allard. MS has the right idea, but it's poorly executed. They're on their way to the prom (master of the living room) and forgot their date (hardcore gamers).

Casual this, casual that. Casuals are NOT early adopters. Early adopters are who gets the ball rolling and build interest. Casuals are just along for the ride and cement market trends which have already been cast.

Yep. This whole console feels like Ballmer's grand vision finally unveiled to crickets because people moved on from the world he is living in years ago. Horrible overlays is the most outdated thing they could have gone with and the rest of the features amount to an advanced remote control. MS does not seem to understand the problems people have with cable. I am much more interested in seeing Apple's solution whenever they decide to reveal it.

 

[mattiewheels]

Wow, that Verge article really makes me wonder how different this new interface is from MS's webTV. Because from the looks of it Xbox shares all the restrictions of that tech (what was it, from the 90s?)

 

[Clear]

The problem to my mind is that they've drunk far too much of their own kool-aid regarding the value of Kinect and the whole NUI gambit. The functionality when you subtract the whole voice/hands-free aspect is hardly radical or unique.

It only seems futuristic due to the interface - its still fundamentally a HDMI passthru/IR-blaster overlay at heart, and that's nothing special.

 

[kaching]

Ironically, I'd say the current 360 is a smarter move in the TV space than the XBO is. 360 had everything they needed - just focus on pushing the streaming/on-demand availability of content, just keep pulling people into that model and the major broadcasters and cable networks would have no choice but to increasingly pitch their content to that space, in an increasingly timely fashion (i.e. day and date releases). XBO's attempt to be the live TV guide just clouds the effort, it isn't necessary. I'm fine having the XBO with HDMI passthru so I can quickly bring up an overlay of the XBO ui with a single button press rather than the more laborious video switching. But certainly don't need it to arrive with a live TV guide.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Outdated and completely unnecessary for a console. Xbox One is the hardware equivalent of software bloat. Adding stuff that people don't want or asked for.

 

[AzaK]

I think MS see it as a gateway to getting people into their ecosystem and moving to digital. They are removing a huge barrier to transitioning.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

Outdated thinking.

Core gamers aren't that interested in TV, they'd rather play games.

TV couch potatoes aren't interested in gaming and wouldn't want to pay $400 to watch the same media they have now.

It's a product that no one asked for and that few consumers will want.

It looks like yet another in a long line of Microsoft's failed bandwagon chasing attempts.

 

[BeauRoger]

Not only outdated, but also probably wont work as advertized. Its already established that you need to keep whatever cable/sat tuner you already have, and that tuner probably wont be able to recieve orders from the xbox through HDMI, cause CEC is virtually non-existant on the cable boxes. This leaves you with the IR device that simply subsitutes the tuner remote control for commands.

The problem of course is that its highly unlikely that EVERY command for every digital tuner will be availible on the xbox one, so you will probably have to program them in manually, creating macros to bind to specific kinnect voice commands, such as entering specific menus, or the tuner streaming services. Problem here is of course that the xbox speed will have little relevance cause its the tuner that will bottleneck the entire process. The entire concept of xbox "one" goes out the window.

 

[ShinAmano]

Yep. And in 5 years there will be far less. 10, even fewer. What you don't do is build your product to cater to a shrinking market. You fight for the new growing market, and reap the benefits once it's mature.

But, hey, like I said before, it's classic Ballmer. He can't see 5 days ahead, let alone 5 years.

Probably right...but 77% of households is a good number of people to target today and for the next few years.

 

[mikeGFG]

Pretty much all anyone talks about anymore is television.

Sounds like a good move to me.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

The thing is, is that while cable subscriptions may be going down, I still think people like television content and are willing to pay for it. I'm sure most of us watch a lot of TV shows on Netflix for example.

I subscribe to Comcast and have a cable box with HDMI, so I would expect that it would be able to work with the Xbox One by just hooking it up. It would really suck if that wasn't the case.

 

[Beermeister]

Outdated thinking. I haven't been watching live TV for years.

 

[Pyramid head]

Completely and utterly outdated.

I haven't used any sort of live television service since 2007 and will never need to for as long as the internet is still a thing. Much like I will never need a land line in my home as long as I and everyone else I know has a mobile phone.

 

[Htown]

Outdated.

I also loved that they talked about the Xbox as "the new water cooler", a metaphor that is also outdated.

It's like they got into the game business with the dream of being everybody's One Box to Rule Them All, but then ignored literally everything that changed in the intervening decade.

 

[mattiewheels]

Outdated thinking.

Core gamers aren't that interested in TV, they'd rather play games.

TV couch potatoes aren't interested in gaming and wouldn't want to pay $400 to watch the same media they have now.

It's a product that no one asked for and that few consumers will want.

It looks like yet another in a long line of Microsoft's failed bandwagon chasing attempts.

You're probably right, but one thing that unites both those groups is that they usually have a 360 sitting under their TV. So brand loyalty for what theyve come to accept as the best home entertainment solution will probably help Xbox One adoption immensely. I just don't know if the cable TV integration is much of a top selling point though.

 

[mrklaw]

I want Sony to release another DVr add on for PS4, like play TV or Torne

 

[mattiewheels]

Pretty much all anyone talks about anymore is television.

Sounds like a good move to me.

This is so true, that TV content is better than it's ever been to a lot of folks.

But the real key is, how are most of those people getting the content delivered?

 

[Biker19]

Because it is trying to be an all in one solution. They could of easily skipped on the blu ray too since all the data will be on the hard drive but they want you to watch blu rays, cable tv, Netflix, YouTube etc. on it. No reason not to include tv if it was already doing everything else.

The big thing is, people like myself can already access that stuff on their computers, laptops, & on tablets & smartphones through apps. And stuff like ROKU, Apple TV, etc.

What's going to be so different about this console in which other products can't already do?

 

[DR2K]

About as smart as tablet gaming... on the Wii U... in 20fucking12.

 

[dem]

Why are people acting like the fact that x1 CAN do this is a bad thing?

It's not one or the other. You can watch your netflix.. you can watch your bluray.. you can watch your cable tv... all through the x1.


You guys just bitch for the sake of bitching.

 

[LukeTim]

The whole thing smacks of old people not understanding new trends.

Older generations are the biggest watchers of scheduled/live tv... because that's what they've grown up with, they had far less around to entertain them.

Gaming's demographics are largely younger audiences... Who are not afraid to embrace new technologies and media...

Xbox One is integrating old technology which younger people use less and less.

I really can't understand what Microsoft were thinking.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Outdated to me. I never sit down to watch TV at a specific time anymore. I DVR game of thrones, or hop onto HBO Go, I DVR all the shows that I do watch, and my cable box (fios) is perfectly fine for what I need. I will NEVER EVER use a single TV feature that the Xbox One has.

 

[NullPointer]

But the real key is, how are most of those people getting the content delivered?

Actual answer: Amazon Prime, Netflix, iTunes, Hulu and BitTorrent

Sports is the only opportunity MS has here.

 

[soul creator]

The whole thing smacks of old people not understanding new trends.

Older generations are the biggest watchers of scheduled/live tv... because that's what they've grown up with, they had far less around to entertain them.

Gaming's demographics are largely younger audiences... Who are not afraid to embrace new technologies and media...

Xbox One is integrating old technology which younger people use less and less.

I really can't understand what Microsoft were thinking.

my guess is they were thinking that they're already gonna get all the apps, streaming services, etc., so having this in addition to the other stuff is helpful for the folks that still use cable boxes (and differentiates them from other boxes)

If I had a cable box, it'd be convenient for me, since I wouldn't have to worry about switching inputs. But that's all it would be for me, a nice convenience, not a must-have.

 

[lantus]

I really don't give a shit about TV, so the large majority of this announcement wasn't for me.

 

[Something Wicked]

100s of millions have cable TV throughout the world, so it would appear to take at least decades for all shows to become internet-based. If one is a "starving artist" type along with one's friends, then I wouldn't extrapolate the whole "almost everyone I know doesn't have cable" concept across a majority of the population.

Also, many shows (even high-rated ones) wouldn't exist without the overall cable subscription model. So, some should be careful what they wish for...

 

[borghe]

outdated thinking... but not (currently) in a significant way, and not in a way that the cable companies would have you believe.

more people are leaving cable every single day. subscriber growth numbers are almost to single digit percentages of new households in the US. This would indicate that in the best case scenario, almost no one in a "new" household is subscribing to cable.. in a more realistic scenario, a sensible portion of those people are signing up for cable, but a majority of them are not, AND cable co's are churning existing customers to boot.

BUT, subscriber numbers are still (barely) growing with on the back of creation of new households. and with apple (forever) rumored to be making a TV, the fight for the living room is more important than ever!! (not really)

so yeah... there are numbers there to support people subscribing to cable and finding interest in this. And most US consumers to have the long view to think "Hey, I might not have cable in two years." I mean my brother STILL thinks I am crazy to suggest he might not have cable service in two years, despite him bitching about the same things every week that eventually led to me dropping it last year.

So, is it a smart play by MS? Sure, there are people who will see this as cool and who can't possibly imagine they would never have cable.

But is it still outdated thinking? Absolutely, because trends show that within the next two years cable co subscriptions will be in decline across the board.. and once it starts, it will snowball. Just ask magazine publishers and newspaper publishers. At that point, and without a live tv box to plug into that HDMI-in... you'll be left with a lesser powered console and no live tv features.

100s of millions have cable TV throughout the world, so it would appear to take at least decades for all shows to become internet-based.

as I mentioned, growth in the US (the biggest cable subscribing country in the world per capita) is anemic, and will likely be in decline within 2-3 years. Outside of the US, growth is even slower than that, and in most countries people are doing only OTA or downloads.

Also, many shows (even high-rated ones) wouldn't exist without the overall cable subscription model. So, some should be careful what they wish for...

cable company hyperbole. once genuine online success is adequately measured (hint: get rid of nielsen) and companies can appropriately monetize videos accordingly, if anything it will be BETTER for most content. Shit like time slot juggling, show order, etc can't be fucked up anymore thus skewing KPIs.

 

[Zukuu]

"On demand" is the new keyword for our generation. TV as it is, is a thing of the past and will prolly be non-existent within the next 20 years.

In many parts of europe, at least for the younger generation, tv has almost NO relevance anymore, save for a few shows. It's background noise, but not something where you sit in front of for hours. Internet, streaming, free shows, on demand etc will overtake it sooner than later.

 

[Eusis]

Explicitly with cable I think it's outdated. Mind, I probably shouldn't underestimate how many still stick with cable, but at the same time I have to wonder what types of people are doing that: are they huge tech fans that would jump at something like this? For those that aren't huge tech fans could this just be a giant headache? I think the only demographic where this probably hits hardest will be either families with one tech head who wants to mess with this sort of stuff and other members that know enough to use it casually, and sports tech heads.

Although, I realized there might be some value if they tied some of these features in with Netflix/Hulu and the like as that's very relevant for a lot of people, especially if we see the return of Live Party or whatever it was called for group Netflix watching.

 

[borghe]

"On demand" is the new keyword for our generation. TV as it is, is a thing of the past and will prolly be non-existent within the next 20 years.

my teenage daughter calls it "watching TV". like literally, with the air quotes and everything. she has to actually clarify that she means watching something on a TV channel with commercials. to her, watching TV (without qualification or air quotes) is firing up the apple tv or roku and choosing something to stream from a service or youtube.

 

[Tamanon]

I don't know if I'd say outdated, but misguided.

When I watch TV, whether by myself or the missus, I already have means of doing other things, like my phone, iPad or laptop. So there's no need to break up the normal TV experience in that way. It's not a bother to switch from one input to the other at all. It seems like a large focus on shaving off seconds from interactions without any meaningful increase in value.

 

[uuaschbaer]

Both. If in ten years cable will be meaningless then Xbone will be just like Apple TV. However because it isn't quite outdated yet they can be more relevant than Apple TV until it is, and so shoehorn themselves into the market.

I just completely made that up, but hey...

 

[Eusis]

I don't know if I'd say outdated, but misguided.

When I watch TV, whether by myself or the missus, I already have means of doing other things, like my phone, iPad or laptop. So there's no need to break up the normal TV experience in that way. It's not a bother to switch from one input to the other at all. It seems like a large focus on shaving off seconds from interactions without any meaningful increase in value.

And yeah, that's another angle: how many would just do the same sort of crap with their phones/tabelts anyway? I guess the NFL crap may put a wrinkle in it, but there's probably some unofficial stuff that still manages to successfully track a lot of things anyway.

 

[borghe]

When I watch TV, whether by myself or the missus, I already have means of doing other things, like my phone, iPad or laptop. So there's no need to break up the normal TV experience in that way. It's not a bother to switch from one input to the other at all. It seems like a large focus on shaving off seconds from interactions without any meaningful increase in value.

This is my biggest problem with MS' solution. As others have pointed out, technically their solution isn't stuck with live tv. However at the end of it the problem is still that their solution potentially sucks for a group or family watching something.

"Oh I like that actor!! Let me watch their newest trailer!!" Yeah, because THAT'S not going to piss off everyone else watching with you...

"oh man, that pass was incredible! I'm going to skype my buddy on this snapped portion of the screen over here to brag! Give me one sec guys.."

Not only can you do everything MS is "enabling" you to do already on a tablet or phone, but doing so on a tablet or phone doesn't impose on everyone else watching as well. Even further, they can ALSO do it in a personalized manner on THEIR tablet or phone.

 

[425kid]

It'll be a brilliant move if MS can get cable company to subsidize the xbox one kind of like cell phones. Like 2-3 years contract with cable company on higher-end package and get xbox one for free kind of deal. That is assuming there is a cable-card dvr version of xbox one.

Otherwise if MS just wants to overlay the video feed with ads, lol.

 

[Vandiger]

I've been using Google TV for awhile with the Revue, its outdated.

 

[Duxxy3]

Outdated

streaming is the present and the future