MS: Xbox One 40x More Powerful Than 360 with the Cloud, Only 10x Without the Cloud

But it only has an online check once every 24 hours or so. Doesn't that blow so much of this away?

No because the "heartbeat" means every single person who buys an Xbox is required to connect their machine to the Internet and will get in the habit of keeping it connected all the time.

You are rewarded with automatic updates while you're not using the machine. This means no more interruptions or waiting for updates while you are trying to play and have fun.

People will not disconnect their Xbox just out of convenience (not only because it's a mandatory requirement) and game developers like Bungie and Respawn will build their AAA games with the requirement of always-online server connections.

Microsoft is doing the half step to OnLive. A mixture that uses both the power of the local machine and the power of the server. OnLive relied completely on the server which limited the graphical fidelity of the entire game and put an enormous burden on their data centers.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
The cloud-powered AI opponent in Chessmaster 2014 on Xbox One will be godlike.
Ah yes, the annual smash hit video game Chessmaster. How could one forget?

I can't beat the computer on higher settings since the 90s.
 

Daingurse

Member
Microsoft:

9yEvnbz.jpg


.

mj-laughing.gif




With all this Microsoft bs making me rage I needed that. Thanks.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
I'll go into detail later if I have to

Break down what tasks can be taken offline and what needs to remain on system and ill chart it out if you guys want because you guys don't seem to understand how much of a game isn't latency sensitive (<3-4 frames of game time)

The cloud isn't "magic" and it's hard to show you as no application exists yet (in this industry) and this isn't a talking point or something to hype people - it's real and it's coming.
 

Grief.exe

Member
Seriously guys, this shit is just shocking. If ever there was a revelation of how incompetent this industry is at the moment, this is it.

Here is a fucking company who actively has announced things that WILL negatively impact every single consumer on the market... and then, in an attempt to muddy the waters, released literally like five or six different versions of the story to try to pretend it wasn't a problem. Oh hey, WE CAN CONFIRM that no used games is false! Wait, I mean *you* won't pay a fee! See, no fee! Don't look behind the curtain, because we're about to tell you that your friends WILL have to pay! Now hold on, what we mean is you just can't lend games without your friend payin' a fee, you can still resell games! Wait a second, we're just discussing POTENTIAL SCENARIOS. Oh wait, think of it like it's a new game... NO FUCKERS, IT'S NOT A GODDAMN NEW GAME. YOU FUCKING DIRTY NO-GOOD ASSHOLES. Goddamn, Microsoft is the worst company ever. Where were the journalists with a list of all the stories being told about this subject, showing them to the latest bullshit artist representing the Xbox One and demanding some honest straight forward answers?

Ok, so what's next? Oh yeah, hey everyone...if you use CLOUD, the Xbox One will get a billion times stronger! A trillion! A zillion! "But wait," anyone with a shred of fucking intelligence responds, "what happens if the internet goes down? What happens if you don't have as faster of a connection? How would such shit get around the endless cloud service bottlenecks? How will it do any fucking thing you assholes say? Can a fucking game journalist do their job?" Find out at eleven o'clock!

No, you won't be able to rent games! Fuck that shit, what a privilege all you potential thieves out there have had for this long! How dare you have such a right, like trying these gargantuan bloated MODERN AAA pieces of garbage out so you don't waste $60 fucking bucks playing the latest 4 hour hallway corridor generation X-Z nonsense title produced almost entirely by eight thousand board rooms across the planet. But hey, it has multiplayer guys! The same fucking multiplayer you've played in Call of Duty twenty eight thousand times, but it's there! VALUE ADDED!

No, you won't be able to fucking use your games beyond 24 hours if you don't have an internet connection, because we believe your lardy, undeveloped asses are so goddamn lazy that you're willing to actively give up ownership privileges just so you can fucking swap games around a little easier! Of course, that's all bullshit, because this is all an elaborate scheme to fuck piracy up some more, even though every fucked up DRM scheme that has been tried this past generation has reamed honest, hard-working and hard-payin' consumers so far up the ass that they have gaping holes larger than what's at the center of the fucking Milky Way Galaxy.

Now there are obviously exceptions. Some game journalists are raging. But this shit is ridiculous. EVERY major website right now should be eviscerating Microsoft. IGN should be fucking vomiting at these decisions every five second around the clock until the system launches. They should be disemboweling these pathetic PR representatives of these hateful corporations, spitting their sludge all over the faces of everyone who ever purchased games from them, denying them even a second to mislead legions of consumers into thinking the system is anything except what it is: the world's biggest fucking cock being whipped out and slapped across your goddamn face!

Oh, what about this shit? Why is your focus during your GAME CONSOLE reveal fuckin' TV? Why have you chosen your philosophy? WHY should gamers take this shit lying down? WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT HAVE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!? For the love of Christ, someone ask some hard goddamn questions! You are all informed to the tit, please use your knowledge to slash these assholes throats so that all the bullshit will spill out and we'll stop having to swim through torrents of anti-consumer diarrhea!

Loved every second of it, especially this part.
 

Klocker

Member
Something like 3x the local CPU resources being available in the cloud won't provide orders of magnitudes difference in AI processing, or whatever.

I totally think hybrid processing can and will be used this gen. I don't think it's as much of a joke as some are making out. But MS is doing a bit of hand waving here, for fairly obvious reasons. You can't really compare local and remote processing resources equally, for starters as they're doing with soundbites like in the title. You can't use remote resources for all the same things you can local. And there is a limit (albeit one that can grow with time).

well yea... I don't buy into the 40x hype but those that are outright dismissing this as voodoo are wrong too, as you know
 

dgrdsv

Member
Jesus fuck. AI isn't the problem and never was. The reason why we don't see a more advanced AI in games is because it's not needed - players don't want it and developers don't have resources to create it.

This talk about cloud somehow making the XBO 4x times more powerful is just marketing and nothing more. It was like that with Cell and PS3. Well, of course, you can use the cloud to run Folding@Home but that's so far from any kind of entertainment that even MS won't be able to call it something that every living room needs. Basically any processing in the cloud is either small scale (this won't help games at all) or offline (this will help if you're willing to wait for a couple hours while the cloud is raytracing the next frame in your game). The average Internet connection is much less than even XBO DDR3 bandwidth and I'm not even accounting for servers route lag here.

This is pure bullshit marketing and nothing more. Cloud won't help XBO with games. It may help with things like cloud storage or background video compression but not with games. We're not there yet with Internet infrastructure.
 

Raide

Member
You mean like an MMO? The A.I. in those games are usually dumb as shit.

Maybe the cloud could help with that. So many of these MMO shooters come out adn rarely do they have good A.I for anything. They just presume players will fill the servers and be good enough. Why not mix in 100's of players and reactive A.I?
 

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Jesus fuck. AI isn't the problem and never was. The reason why we don't see a more advanced AI in games is because it's not needed - players don't want it and developers don't have resources to create it.

This talk about cloud somehow making the XBO 4x times more powerful is just marketing and nothing more. It was like that with Cell and PS3. Well, of course, you can use the cloud to run Folding@Home but that's so far from any kind of entertainment that even MS won't be able to call it something that every living room needs. Basically any processing in the cloud is either small scale (this won't help games at all) or offline (this will help if you're willing to wait for a couple hours while the cloud is raytracing the next frame in your game). The average Internet connection is much less than even XBO DDR3 bandwidth and I'm not even accounting for servers route lag here.

This is pure bullshit marketing and nothing more. Cloud won't help XBO with games. It may help with things like cloud storage or background video compression but not with games. We're not there yet with Internet infrastructure.


Funny thing... I never complained about AI

I agree, we are not at that point.
 

Ardenyal

Member
So how should we draft memory bandwidth graphs for this?



200GB/s + gigabit ethernet port = 201GB/s

or

200GB/s x 4 = EIGHT HUNDRED GIGABITS PER SECOND
 

Brashnir

Member
I'll go into detail later if I have to

Break down what tasks can be taken offline and what needs to remain on system and ill chart it out if you guys want because you guys don't seem to understand how much of a game isn't latency sensitive (<3-4 frames of game time)

The cloud isn't "magic" and it's hard to show you as no application exists yet (in this industry) and this isn't a talking point or something to hype people - it's real and it's coming.

Every single thing processed in an action game is latency sensitive. 4 frames is the difference between hitting a moving target dead center and missing it completely.
 
No because the "heartbeat" means every single person who buys an Xbox is required to connect their machine to the Internet and will get in the habit of keeping it connected all the time.

You are rewarded with automatic updates while you're not using the machine. This means no more interruptions or waiting for updates while you are trying to play and have fun.

People will not disconnect their Xbox just out of convenience (not only because it's a mandatory requirement) and game developers like Bungie and Respawn will build their AAA games with the requirement of always-online server connections.

Microsoft is doing the half step to OnLive. A mixture that uses both the power of the local machine and the power of the server. OnLive relied completely on the server which limited the graphical fidelity of the entire game and put an enormous burden on their data centers.

Bungie and Respawn utilizing the power of the cloud confirmed by MS insider.
 

SiskoKid

Member
Can someone with technical knowledge explain what in a game can be offloaded to the servers for computation that will mean this is a benefit to games?
 

nib95

Banned
Seriously guys, this shit is just shocking. If ever there was a revelation of how incompetent this industry is at the moment, this is it.

Here is a fucking company who actively has announced things that WILL negatively impact every single consumer on the market... and then, in an attempt to muddy the waters, released literally like five or six different versions of the story to try to pretend it wasn't a problem. Oh hey, WE CAN CONFIRM that no used games is false! Wait, I mean *you* won't pay a fee! See, no fee! Don't look behind the curtain, because we're about to tell you that your friends WILL have to pay! Now hold on, what we mean is you just can't lend games without your friend payin' a fee, you can still resell games! Wait a second, we're just discussing POTENTIAL SCENARIOS. Oh wait, think of it like it's a new game... NO FUCKERS, IT'S NOT A GODDAMN NEW GAME. YOU FUCKING DIRTY NO-GOOD ASSHOLES. Goddamn, Microsoft is the worst company ever. Where were the journalists with a list of all the stories being told about this subject, showing them to the latest bullshit artist representing the Xbox One and demanding some honest straight forward answers?

Ok, so what's next? Oh yeah, hey everyone...if you use CLOUD, the Xbox One will get a billion times stronger! A trillion! A zillion! "But wait," anyone with a shred of fucking intelligence responds, "what happens if the internet goes down? What happens if you don't have as faster of a connection? How would such shit get around the endless cloud service bottlenecks? How will it do any fucking thing you assholes say? Can a fucking game journalist do their job?" Find out at eleven o'clock!

No, you won't be able to rent games! Fuck that shit, what a privilege all you potential thieves out there have had for this long! How dare you have such a right, like trying these gargantuan bloated MODERN AAA pieces of garbage out so you don't waste $60 fucking bucks playing the latest 4 hour hallway corridor generation X-Z nonsense title produced almost entirely by eight thousand board rooms across the planet. But hey, it has multiplayer guys! The same fucking multiplayer you've played in Call of Duty twenty eight thousand times, but it's there! VALUE ADDED!

No, you won't be able to fucking use your games beyond 24 hours if you don't have an internet connection, because we believe your lardy, undeveloped asses are so goddamn lazy that you're willing to actively give up ownership privileges just so you can fucking swap games around a little easier! Of course, that's all bullshit, because this is all an elaborate scheme to fuck piracy up some more, even though every fucked up DRM scheme that has been tried this past generation has reamed honest, hard-working and hard-payin' consumers so far up the ass that they have gaping holes larger than what's at the center of the fucking Milky Way Galaxy.

Now there are obviously exceptions. Some game journalists are raging. But this shit is ridiculous. EVERY major website right now should be eviscerating Microsoft. IGN should be fucking vomiting at these decisions every five second around the clock until the system launches. They should be disemboweling these pathetic PR representatives of these hateful corporations, spitting their sludge all over the faces of everyone who ever purchased games from them, denying them even a second to mislead legions of consumers into thinking the system is anything except what it is: the world's biggest fucking cock being whipped out and slapped across your goddamn face!

Oh, what about this shit? Why is your focus during your GAME CONSOLE reveal fuckin' TV? Why have you chosen your philosophy? WHY should gamers take this shit lying down? WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT HAVE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!? For the love of Christ, someone ask some hard goddamn questions! You are all informed to the tit, please use your knowledge to slash these assholes throats so that all the bullshit will spill out and we'll stop having to swim through torrents of anti-consumer diarrhea!

B00m!! Lol.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Seriously guys, this shit is just shocking. If ever there was a revelation of how incompetent this industry is at the moment, this is it.

Here is a fucking company who actively has announced things that WILL negatively impact every single consumer on the market... and then, in an attempt to muddy the waters, released literally like five or six different versions of the story to try to pretend it wasn't a problem. Oh hey, WE CAN CONFIRM that no used games is false! Wait, I mean *you* won't pay a fee! See, no fee! Don't look behind the curtain, because we're about to tell you that your friends WILL have to pay! Now hold on, what we mean is you just can't lend games without your friend payin' a fee, you can still resell games! Wait a second, we're just discussing POTENTIAL SCENARIOS. Oh wait, think of it like it's a new game... NO FUCKERS, IT'S NOT A GODDAMN NEW GAME. YOU FUCKING DIRTY NO-GOOD ASSHOLES. Goddamn, Microsoft is the worst company ever. Where were the journalists with a list of all the stories being told about this subject, showing them to the latest bullshit artist representing the Xbox One and demanding some honest straight forward answers?

Ok, so what's next? Oh yeah, hey everyone...if you use CLOUD, the Xbox One will get a billion times stronger! A trillion! A zillion! "But wait," anyone with a shred of fucking intelligence responds, "what happens if the internet goes down? What happens if you don't have as faster of a connection? How would such shit get around the endless cloud service bottlenecks? How will it do any fucking thing you assholes say? Can a fucking game journalist do their job?" Find out at eleven o'clock!

No, you won't be able to rent games! Fuck that shit, what a privilege all you potential thieves out there have had for this long! How dare you have such a right, like trying these gargantuan bloated MODERN AAA pieces of garbage out so you don't waste $60 fucking bucks playing the latest 4 hour hallway corridor generation X-Z nonsense title produced almost entirely by eight thousand board rooms across the planet. But hey, it has multiplayer guys! The same fucking multiplayer you've played in Call of Duty twenty eight thousand times, but it's there! VALUE ADDED!

No, you won't be able to fucking use your games beyond 24 hours if you don't have an internet connection, because we believe your lardy, undeveloped asses are so goddamn lazy that you're willing to actively give up ownership privileges just so you can fucking swap games around a little easier! Of course, that's all bullshit, because this is all an elaborate scheme to fuck piracy up some more, even though every fucked up DRM scheme that has been tried this past generation has reamed honest, hard-working and hard-payin' consumers so far up the ass that they have gaping holes larger than what's at the center of the fucking Milky Way Galaxy.

Now there are obviously exceptions. Some game journalists are raging. But this shit is ridiculous. EVERY major website right now should be eviscerating Microsoft. IGN should be fucking vomiting at these decisions every five second around the clock until the system launches. They should be disemboweling these pathetic PR representatives of these hateful corporations, spitting their sludge all over the faces of everyone who ever purchased games from them, denying them even a second to mislead legions of consumers into thinking the system is anything except what it is: the world's biggest fucking cock being whipped out and slapped across your goddamn face!

Oh, what about this shit? Why is your focus during your GAME CONSOLE reveal fuckin' TV? Why have you chosen your philosophy? WHY should gamers take this shit lying down? WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT HAVE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!? For the love of Christ, someone ask some hard goddamn questions! You are all informed to the tit, please use your knowledge to slash these assholes throats so that all the bullshit will spill out and we'll stop having to swim through torrents of anti-consumer diarrhea!

Well said. Where is the journalistic integrity in this when they aren't asking any hard hitting questions?

Just feed us more bogus lines or drivel that Microsoft spits out. Talk about the opposite approach that they have taken compared to Sony which has been about as upfront with what they've shown so far.

So much that now we get threads questioning Sony as if they've decided to do this so it can be drug down right along Xbone.
 

Klocker

Member
Jesus fuck. AI isn't the problem and never was. The reason why we don't see a more advanced AI in games is because it's not needed - players don't want it and developers don't have resources to create it.

This talk about cloud somehow making the XBO 4x times more powerful is just marketing and nothing more. It was like that with Cell and PS3. Well, of course, you can use the cloud to run Folding@Home but that's so far from any kind of entertainment that even MS won't be able to call it something that every living room needs. Basically any processing in the cloud is either small scale (this won't help games at all) or offline (this will help if you're willing to wait for a couple hours while the cloud is raytracing the next frame in your game). The average Internet connection is much less than even XBO DDR3 bandwidth and I'm not even accounting for servers route lag here.

This is pure bullshit marketing and nothing more. Cloud won't help XBO with games. It may help with things like cloud storage or background video compression but not with games. We're not there yet with Internet infrastructure.

they are adding 300k servers to an already huge network globally positioned for low latency and you not need high bandwidth for it to work. It is not rendering the whole game like onlive just smaller percentages of the whole game
 
Maybe the cloud could help with that. So many of these MMO shooters come out adn rarely do they have good A.I for anything. They just presume players will fill the servers and be good enough. Why not mix in 100's of players and reactive A.I?
Isn't the cloud just a bunch of servers doing calculations? MMOs already do that.

Nope. Again, you don't understand and it's ok.
Can you explain it in detail? I honestly don't understand.
 

Brashnir

Member
they are adding 300k servers to an already huge network globally positioned for low latency and you not need high bandwidth for it to work. It is not rendering the whole game like onlive just smaller percentages of the whole game

Apparently it's 75% of the game if the statement is to be believed, not a small percentage.
 

RetroStu

Banned
Its actually cringeworthy the kind of lame bullshit spin these companys come out with to try and get us on board, they really do think the masses are dumb fucks don't they?
 

Yonafunu

Member
Wouldn't using the cloud for computations, or whatever it is they're saying, really require you to be 'always on'?

Also, dayum Amir0x
 

Hawk269

Member
So what would happen if this cloud thing (that we have NO FUCKING CLUE on how it works and NO ONE HERE knows what else is inside the box to make this work) actually works?

What if the claim of 40% more powerful is actually true??? What if MS has developed something that makes it work? Is it beyond the limits of our imagination that there might be something "cutting edge" that we are not aware of that would make this work.

I have to believe that a company like MS moving from the current 15,000 servers to 300,000 servers has to be for a reason. 15,000 servers world wide are currently taking care of over 45million Live users, we all know they are not going to sell anything near 45mil units for many many years...so why have 300,000 servers built and set up for the Xbox One???

Instead of all this doom and gloom maybe we should shut the fuck up until we actually know what we are bitching about. I know this is a popular trend here, but it seems like a lot of our members are bitching about thinks they have no fucking clue about.
 

Klocker

Member
Wouldn't using the cloud for computations, or whatever it is they're saying, really require you to be 'always on'?

Also, dayum Amir0x

yep that's exactly why they wanted it... not for Trojan horse DRM but for cloud computing in games and eventually move all rendering to cloud devices in the future, future, future...
 

Durante

Member
Something like 3x the local CPU resources being available in the cloud won't provide orders of magnitudes difference in AI processing, or whatever.

I totally think hybrid processing can and will be used this gen. I don't think it's as much of a joke as some are making out. But MS is doing a bit of hand waving here, for fairly obvious reasons. You can't really compare local and remote processing resources equally, for starters as they're doing with soundbites like in the title. You can't use remote resources for all the same things you can local. And there is a limit (albeit one that can grow with time).
I really think that calling it "a bit of hand-waving" is far too generous. Like Gandhi and Mother Teresa combined level of generous. At the very best, it's outright misdirection.

Yes, there is such a thing as distributed computing, there has been for a while. Yes, maybe you can even find a few things in games that make the increased programming complexity, latency uncertainties, server expenses and consumer inconvenience worth it. However, it still won't help increase your local compute resources, particularly as they pertain to graphics. Gong from "10x" to "40x" because of "the cloud" is the most vile kind of marketing babble. But I guess if you repeat your number of servers often enough people will buy it.
 
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