MS: Xbox One 40x More Powerful Than 360 with the Cloud, Only 10x Without the Cloud

Nope. Again, you don't understand and it's ok.

It's sweet that you understand in detail so much about this cloud computing method and yet aren't capable of explaining it.

I'll be honest, I frankly don't think you have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

I'd take the likes of Durante's word over yours any day of the week. You haven't shown any aptitude for understanding computing techniques at all.
 

mcfrank

Member
they are adding 300k servers to an already huge network globally positioned for low latency and you not need high bandwidth for it to work. It is not rendering the whole game like onlive just smaller percentages of the whole game

You "Clouders" keep saying this like rendering less than a full game makes it easier. It doesn't. It makes it a hell of a lot harder. Rendering the game on a server and sending you VIDEO of the game is a lot easier than sending you 75% of your code and then merging it with the 25% of the code processed locally to generate a game in real time.
 

UberTag

Member
After 8 years of working on Microsoft accounts - 5 of which were spent directly supporting the Xbox brand in three different countries - I've finally had enough.

My last day supporting Microsoft is next Friday. Switching to an account that actually RESPECTS its customers. Can't wait!
 

godhandiscen

There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
"Bullshit, nobody needs the wheel, we are doing fine with our horses. PS4 is the best horse."

This is you guys atm.
 

Sethos

Banned
Instead of all this doom and gloom maybe we should shut the fuck up until we actually know what we are bitching about. I know this is a popular trend here, but it seems like a lot of our members are bitching about thinks they have no fucking clue about.

Oh stop being so damn naive. This is smoke and mirrors PR bullshit, anyone with a modicum of technical understanding will question this because it's just not feasible for a majority of games today.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
I'll go into detail later if I have to

Break down what tasks can be taken offline and what needs to remain on system and ill chart it out if you guys want because you guys don't seem to understand how much of a game isn't latency sensitive (<3-4 frames of game time)

The cloud isn't "magic" and it's hard to show you as no application exists yet (in this industry) and this isn't a talking point or something to hype people - it's real and it's coming.

So you're saying the CPU is the bottleneck X4? You're making no sense here. If the GPU has a peak performance of 1.2 Teraflops, and this isn't about GPU rendering, this isn't going to make performance any higher than 1.2 Teraflops. You're saying an average .3 Teraflops is applied to rendering and the rest is being wasted by the CPU bottleneck.

Can you explain where my assumptions are wrong then?
 
I heard Peter Molyneux talk about this on IGN after the conference. A particular game may have pre rendered assets that do not have to be on the disc or for that matter need graphical power to render. It almost seemed to me what he was describing was that a portion of every game would be streaming in from the cloud seamlessly. That would make sense with the announcement that every game would have its own dedicated server. Not saying I believe it will happen, just like I do not think the Sony streaming will, but it does make sense how they could boost graphics without more gpu power in the physical unit.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
Seriously guys, this shit is just shocking. If ever there was a revelation of how incompetent this industry is at the moment, this is it.

Here is a fucking company who actively has announced things that WILL negatively impact every single consumer on the market... and then, in an attempt to muddy the waters, released literally like five or six different versions of the story to try to pretend it wasn't a problem. Oh hey, WE CAN CONFIRM that no used games is false! Wait, I mean *you* won't pay a fee! See, no fee! Don't look behind the curtain, because we're about to tell you that your friends WILL have to pay! Now hold on, what we mean is you just can't lend games without your friend payin' a fee, you can still resell games! Wait a second, we're just discussing POTENTIAL SCENARIOS. Oh wait, think of it like it's a new game... NO FUCKERS, IT'S NOT A GODDAMN NEW GAME. YOU FUCKING DIRTY NO-GOOD ASSHOLES. Goddamn, Microsoft is the worst company ever. Where were the journalists with a list of all the stories being told about this subject, showing them to the latest bullshit artist representing the Xbox One and demanding some honest straight forward answers?

Ok, so what's next? Oh yeah, hey everyone...if you use CLOUD, the Xbox One will get a billion times stronger! A trillion! A zillion! "But wait," anyone with a shred of fucking intelligence responds, "what happens if the internet goes down? What happens if you don't have as faster of a connection? How would such shit get around the endless cloud service bottlenecks? How will it do any fucking thing you assholes say? Can a fucking game journalist do their job?" Find out at eleven o'clock!

No, you won't be able to rent games! Fuck that shit, what a privilege all you potential thieves out there have had for this long! How dare you have such a right, like trying these gargantuan bloated MODERN AAA pieces of garbage out so you don't waste $60 fucking bucks playing the latest 4 hour hallway corridor generation X-Z nonsense title produced almost entirely by eight thousand board rooms across the planet. But hey, it has multiplayer guys! The same fucking multiplayer you've played in Call of Duty twenty eight thousand times, but it's there! VALUE ADDED!

No, you won't be able to fucking use your games beyond 24 hours if you don't have an internet connection, because we believe your lardy, undeveloped asses are so goddamn lazy that you're willing to actively give up ownership privileges just so you can fucking swap games around a little easier! Of course, that's all bullshit, because this is all an elaborate scheme to fuck piracy up some more, even though every fucked up DRM scheme that has been tried this past generation has reamed honest, hard-working and hard-payin' consumers so far up the ass that they have gaping holes larger than what's at the center of the fucking Milky Way Galaxy.

Now there are obviously exceptions. Some game journalists are raging. But this shit is ridiculous. EVERY major website right now should be eviscerating Microsoft. IGN should be fucking vomiting at these decisions every five second around the clock until the system launches. They should be disemboweling these pathetic PR representatives of these hateful corporations, spitting their sludge all over the faces of everyone who ever purchased games from them, denying them even a second to mislead legions of consumers into thinking the system is anything except what it is: the world's biggest fucking cock being whipped out and slapped across your goddamn face!

Oh, what about this shit? Why is your focus during your GAME CONSOLE reveal fuckin' TV? Why have you chosen your philosophy? WHY should gamers take this shit lying down? WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT HAVE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!? For the love of Christ, someone ask some hard goddamn questions! You are all informed to the tit, please use your knowledge to slash these assholes throats so that all the bullshit will spill out and we'll stop having to swim through torrents of anti-consumer diarrhea!

Post of the year. Amir0x does NOT suck.
 

Raide

Member
Isn't the cloud just a bunch of servers doing calculations? MMOs already do that.

I dunno how much of the server is actually calculating anything beyond the basics. Game Clients seem to all the brunt work like graphics, sound etc. The servers are basically just storing the world and player accounts etc.
 
history proves when a small band of people are saying one thing and the masses are outright dismissing them, more times than not the "crazy" ones were right all along. :)
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen written.

You could use this to excuse almost anything.

I could claim the moon was made out of muffins and, because everyone would dismiss my claim, it would make me more likely to be correct?
 

Painraze

Unconfirmed Member
So what would happen if this cloud thing (that we have NO FUCKING CLUE on how it works and NO ONE HERE knows what else is inside the box to make this work) actually works?

What if the claim of 40% more powerful is actually true??? What if MS has developed something that makes it work? Is it beyond the limits of our imagination that there might be something "cutting edge" that we are not aware of that would make this work.

I have to believe that a company like MS moving from the current 15,000 servers to 300,000 servers has to be for a reason. 15,000 servers world wide are currently taking care of over 45million Live users, we all know they are not going to sell anything near 45mil units for many many years...so why have 300,000 servers built and set up for the Xbox One???

Instead of all this doom and gloom maybe we should shut the fuck up until we actually know what we are bitching about. I know this is a popular trend here, but it seems like a lot of our members are bitching about thinks they have no fucking clue about.

Some people like to swallow and repeat PR bullshit (like how you just repeated the 300,000 servers) and some call bullshit on obvious marketing ploys. People are different.
 
What a crock of marketing buzzword shit. Unfortunately I bet you the gaming press eats this nonsense up.

How is this going to work for time-essential computing operations when it's got to steam that data from the cloud to the console. You've got both latency and bandwidth to consider (and data caps for some!)

Outside a handful of situations, like modelling the behaviour of a city of NPCs where they don't need to react on a frame-by-frame basis, this is pretty much useless.
 

Hawk269

Member
After 8 years of working on Microsoft accounts - 5 of which were spent directly supporting the Xbox brand in three different countries - I've finally had enough.

My last day supporting Microsoft is next Friday. Switching to an account that actually RESPECTS its customers. Can't wait!

And this contributes to the discussion how???
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
wow, just wow.

MS really needs a better handle on their messaging.

v9JMCBI.jpg
 

Klocker

Member
My guess is, listening to Dan Greenwalt on Tuesday, that we will hear all about the benefits when forza 5 is released as they are using it already

here are other ideas for use (REPOST)

some thoughts on B3D how it wil work and a discussion here

Dude, it doesn't matter what I say, you've already made your mind up. One of my favorite games this generation was 99 nights. It had hundreds of enemies on screen, with kind of crappy ai. Move the ai to the cloud, and you can have thousands of smart enemies on screen simultaneously. Single player game, doing something using the cloud that the console cannot do alone, requiring only a few KB per update bandwidth


Ok, just as an example. Imagine a multiplayer FPS today with an AI sniper laying in wait for a number of folks all around the map. Today, each instance has to host it's own AI for the sniper, and it has to be completely synced and completely predictable. In a future game of this type, the sniper can be hosted in the cloud, with hugely superior AI, randomness, learning, etc. and the only things you need to keep synced are player positions, and who the sniper fires on. Low bandwidth, latency tolerant, and it allows you to have unlimited AI actors in a multiplayer game without the nightmares this used to be, and with almost zero processing cost for the console.


I would do something like crowd simulation for a...

I would do something like crowd simulation for a racing game. Play offline, you get sparse crowds like current gen, play online, you get huge dynamic crowds with much more diversity.

My point is that 5 years from now, the idea of a game that doesn't require an Internet connection will be as quaint as a game that can fit onto a CD. Sure, they'll exist, and people will reminisce about the good old days when consoles only used the Internet for video streaming, but all the top games will be online only. They'll have persistent changing worlds, they'll have thousands of AI actors. Imagine Skyrim, if it had all the people in the cities it should have had. And they were backed by the kinds of AI algorithms driving the top bots today that are almost beating the Turing test. And you actually spoke to them, like a real person, instead of picking conversation topics from a list, and they answered using cloud rendered text-to-speech that is currently almost good enough to pass, and is actively being improved
 
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen written.

You could use this to excuse almost anything.

I could claim the moon was made out of muffins and, because everyone would dismiss my claim, it would make me more likely to be correct?

My friend and I just saw a dragon!


You're all crazy!!!!! Wait, what is that white jacket....no...no....mommy!
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
The cloud isn't "magic" and it's hard to show you as no application exists yet (in this industry) and this isn't a talking point or something to hype people - it's real and it's coming.

It isn't magic. I use the cloud on my Vita to save games. I use the cloud to play Planetside 2. The cloud is just a PR buzzword for computers on the Internet. It is not going to save video games, it is just a natural extension to it and all will use it to some extent. MS is just hiding behind the buzzword right now, a pair of shiny keys to dangle in front of the brain dead journalist and tech illiterate gamers.
 

Dragon

Banned
history proves when a small band of people are saying one thing and the masses are outright dismissing them, more times than not the "crazy" ones were right all along. :)

Does it? Or is it like a backwards version of Appeal to Popularity? Looks more like the latter.
 

qwerty2k

Member
I heard Peter Molyneux talk about this on IGN after the conference. A particular game may have pre rendered assets that do not have to be on the disc or for that matter need graphical power to render. It almost seemed to me what he was describing was that a portion of every game would be streaming in from the cloud seamlessly. That would make sense with the announcement that every game would have its own dedicated server. Not saying I believe it will happen, just like I do not think the Sony streaming will, but it does make sense how they could boost graphics without more gpu power in the physical unit.

Whats the point of not putting an asset on the disc when they can use dual layer blurays and all games are installed to a hdd?
 

ymmv

Banned
I heard Peter Molyneux talk about this on IGN after the conference. A particular game may have pre rendered assets that do not have to be on the disc or for that matter need graphical power to render. It almost seemed to me what he was describing was that a portion of every game would be streaming in from the cloud seamlessly. That would make sense with the announcement that every game would have its own dedicated server. Not saying I believe it will happen, just like I do not think the Sony streaming will, but it does make sense how they could boost graphics without more gpu power in the physical unit.

But that's using the cloud for offline storage to download or stream levels. That's not distributes computing at all. Nothing special about it at all. It's just DLC.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
I really think that calling it "a bit of hand-waving" is far too generous. Like Gandhi and Mother Teresa combined level of generous. At the very best, it's outright misdirection.

Yes, there is such a thing as distributed computing, there has been for a while. Yes, maybe you can even find a few things in games that make the increased programming complexity, latency uncertainties, server expenses and consumer inconvenience worth it. However, it still won't help increase your local compute resources, particularly as they pertain to graphics. Gong from "10x" to "40x" because of "the cloud" is the most vile kind of marketing babble. But I guess if you repeat your number of servers often enough people will buy it.

I will take your word to the bank over the drivel I'm hearing from the journalists or MSFT on this as their whole platform is a big set of misleading's so far.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Name one thing that a game calculates that isn't latency sensitive. One thing.

And I'm talking about a fast moving game, like Super Meat Boy, some some dull trudging lagfest like an MMO.

Ok

AI (you can split these up in between local and cloud)

Physics of structures and debris

Weather

Vehicles (out of a certain range)

Animations and physics of people/crowds that you don't directly influence

Lots more too!
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
The cloud isn't "magic" and it's hard to show you as no application exists yet (in this industry) and this isn't a talking point or something to hype people - it's real and it's coming.
When you get around to it, you'll want to explain why it hasn't happened yet then, since gaming hardware capable of dedicated internet connections and cloud computing services have both existed for more than a decade, at least.
 

Painraze

Unconfirmed Member
When you get around to it, you'll want to explain why it hasn't happened yet then, since gaming hardware capable of dedicated internet connections and cloud computing services have both existed for more than a decade, at least.

Because 300,000 servers man!
 

SSM25

Member
This is ... whaat? Oh boy, this is not happening right?

It's clear to me know to whom this console is aimed at and if I had the least intention of getting one down the road now they can go and screw themselves, they ain't getting a penny from me.
 

ptuck874

Member
they are adding 300k servers to an already huge network globally positioned for low latency and you not need high bandwidth for it to work. It is not rendering the whole game like onlive just smaller percentages of the whole game

something something dark side, I still don't see how this would work with base dsl services some people (me myself this summer after moving) would have. They should seriously put somewhere what the min. bandwidth would be for this all to work, I seriously doubt a 1 meg dsl line could handle this....
 

i-Lo

Member
history proves when a small band of people are saying one thing and the masses are outright dismissing them, more times than not the "crazy" ones were right all along. :)

If they can provide proof of concept across a wide variety condition pertaining to connection, I am sure that most people here will feel far more at ease. But go ahead, play your "intellectually superior yet misunderstood voice of truth" card.

yep that's exactly why they wanted it... not for Trojan horse DRM but for cloud computing in games and eventually move all rendering to cloud devices in the future, future, future...

You have to supremely naive to believe that. I don't doubt their intention with the cloud but thinking DRM had nothing to do it at all is just delusional.
 
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