Support NeoGAF

[spwolf]

Or Microsoft and the publishers force Gamestop to take less of a cut. Eh..? Eh?

i doubt it, at least not significantly... also, private sales? all the same.

As to the people talking about Cloud... it has nothing to do with Azure at all... it may run on Azure but thats not important or significant to this story. It could also be 10 servers in data center and doesnt make any difference.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

It's pro consumer to enable gameplay without discs if you ask me. Lets focus on the more important benefits.

Wow, this is genius trolling. It has to be.

 

[Gintamen]

So what? Who lends £40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

Sorry that you have no real friends. Who the fuck would do that on purpose? -_-

Nice, a deal between those that sell the new games at exorbitant prices and the retailers, who do the same, but now have to appease the publishers with a share of the profit. Win-win for the industry, lose-lose for the consumers.

 

[Roki6]

I'm confused
Sooo what if I want to sell it on ebay?

maybe ebay will join this reseller program and act as a middleman...

 

[HaRyu]

Yeah, when all is said and done I wonder how much you will actually get for trading/selling a game and how much buying a used game would cost.

Considering the fact that now there's a 3-way cut in profits for used games (MS, the publisher, and the game store), probably not a lot. And purchasing used games, the prices probably won't be that enticing either.

 

[Xater]

Pretty much. Vote with your wallets, people.

I fear that people will only vote with their wallets if Sony doesn't do this and makes it a differentiator to the general public.

 

[Dead Man]

For me, as someone who doesn't trade in games and has an Internet connection, it's pro consumer. Pro me. Pro Meltzer.

No, it is only pro you. It is not pro consumer. It is just pro you. You are not a generalised consumer. And since you seem to care not at all for anyone else's experiences, you should feel just fine about that.

 

[H3xum]

Sucks for our buy/sell thread on here

And craigslist

aka where I sell all of my games. Sigh.

 

[fluffydelusions]

maybe ebay will join this reseller program and act as a middleman...

How would that even work?

 

[metalslimer]

If Sony actually does this, this will be the last generation of consoles. Jim Sterling actually had a very good point *shudders*. Consoles are basically becoming shitty PCs with none of the benefits. A closed platform PC that has no access to mods and isn't upgradable and has no backwards compatability. How can anyone reasonable think this direction of the industry is a good one?

I fear that people will only vote with their wallets if Sony doesn't do this and makes it a differentiator to the general public.

The PS3/360 will just destroy One and the PS4 then and I'll have no problem with it.

 

[CatPee]

Ugh, why are people saying this is a "customer win"? No, a customer win is being able to freely sell used copies of the games they own to any other consumer that they want to at a price deemed fair by both parties. Completely eliminating that and implementing this forced retailer trade-in crap (where a price cap on payouts is almost guaranteed to happen along with lower payout amounts due to multiple parties behind the transaction) is not a consumer win by any stretch.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Looks like I was right. Prepare for trade in values to tank.

 

[Duxxy3]

It's pro consumer to enable gameplay without discs if you ask me. Lets focus on the more important benefits.

It may be worth it for you, but I don't want to devalue my copy of the game and remove the ability to lend my game for the benefit of playing with a disc.

For that's not worth the trade off.

Wow, this is genius trolling. It has to be.

He's not trolling. He really does think it's a better deal for him.

 

[Dead Man]

If Sony actually does this, this will be the last generation of consoles. Jim Sterling actually had a very good point *shudders*. Consoles are basically becoming shitty PCs with none of the benefits. A closed platform PC that has no access to mods and isn't upgradable and has no backwards compatability. How can anyone reasonable think this direction of the industry is a good one?

Yep. The upsides to consoles were simplicity and the benefits of using physical media. With those gone, why bother?

 

[Roki6]

in't there some law in US (and probably in other countries) about right to resale stuff? I forgot the name...something with doctrine...

how all this fits with that?

 

[Klocker]

How else do you manage a system where you buy a disc, an play it without the disc being in your machine and ensure that disc isn't being used at the same time by multiple people???

Something has to give there. Sure it's business to make money but it is a solution to a new problem of not having to play with disc in tray for fast game switching and suspend between games. An all new feature. If Sony allows you to.play without disc, expect something similar

 

[Spartaner]

i dont get it can i sell the license directly to microsoft or something ?
i never traded or sold a game im just curious.

 

[Papacheeks]

I don't quite understand, how do the retailers take a hit? With XB1 they will pay you less for games while charging more or the same amount for used games. They've got no reason not to. They'll cover any loss from the publisher/microsoft taking a cut this way.
If you're implying that they are taking a hit in this gen then I'm really confused. Unless of course you're talking about greater competition from online stores etc.. In which case it's hardly relevant to the topic at hand.

Have you ever worked retail? Retailers don't make straight profit on games, lot's of times they lose money. Up till recently there are incentives to retailer's moving large amounts of units for certain titles will get them kick back from Microsoft and Sony. They make most of their money on accessories, like cables, controllers, headsets, DLC cards, and used games.

You must be confused as I worked at a Manager Level at both Gamestop and Best Buy, we look at numbers daily for revenue and margin. Also we log in to a special widget that calculates what our percentage is from selling certain Microsoft endorsed products. The same goes for Sony. Btw since this MVC thread hasn't been confirmed or denied yet I'm taking it with a grain of salt. Plus my understanding from interviews says that you can play a game on the XBOX ONE from the disc. Meaning install is mandatory for certain features of the game like multiplayer or what ever.

Plus if you uninstall the game completely and it updates to MS server's who says your not going to get good credit for it. There are ton's we don't know for sure, so right now were all making assumptions. The biggest thing we can all agree on is EA did away with passes, because Microsoft implemented a system in the OS that ties the game to your account. Like a pc does, and guess what these are running X86 architecture, just like pc. Sucks that those days of selling games to someone are over, but we are in a day where games on steam are 3 dollars, the same goes for PlayStation Plus discounts.

We still don;t know jack yet, so it;s right now a wait and see. But I don't think MS and Sony would be so brash as to screw over retailers that are their biggest Preorder stations for new Consoles and games.

 

[Slair]

I keep seeing these red flags pop up in regards to niche games and games with limited runs or limited/special/collectors editions. If i come to the system late and i want to buy something like xenoblade with a limited run, where am i gonna buy it? The local Game stocks very little second hand games that aren't shit shovel-ware or AAA. I have to go to CEX or Cash Generator which sell a slightly more varied selection and hope they have it, watch the local classifieds or as a last resort i have to go to ebay and get scalped, but i can still get the game. Microsoft are essentially removing all these options except Game, so I'm stuck buying new, day one, if i want a physical copy, maybe even before i actually buy the console itself or i buy digital when i get the console and pay more for a game i'm getting later into the generation than the price it was at retail day one.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

No, it is only pro you. It is not pro consumer. It is just pro you. You are not a generalised consumer. And since you seem to care not at all for anyone else's experiences, you should feel just fine about that.

I'm not alone. There are dozens of us. Dozens!

 

[fluffydelusions]

Looks like I was right. Prepare for trade in values to tank.

Yeah I can't wait to see trade in values. You'd be lucky to get even half of what you paid for a newish game at gamestop...With this I expect maybe a 1/4.

 

[metalslimer]

in't there some law in US (and probably in other countries) about right to resale stuff? I forgot the name...something with doctrine...

how all this fits with that?

Oh you can resale stuff, just to specified MS vendors. But good luck if you are in a smaller country or country that MS has few relations with or just doesn't care.

 

[LuchaShaq]

Seems fair.

Why should I need to go through gamestop or amazon to sell a friend or lend a friend my game?

Why should I have to give either of them one fucking cent as a middle man if I want to sell it directly to someone?


Fair is the last word I would use to describe this.

Insane
Gross
Greedy

 

[p3tran]

So what? Who lends £40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

come on

I give to my nephews. sometimes they scratch it, other times they break it, other times they just keep it

fuck off microsoft!

 

[salromano]

Am I understanding that second part right (from the ConsoleDeals source)? In addition to buying the used game at GameStop, or wherever, you'll have to pay a £35 activation fee on top of it?

 

[MikeE21286]

It's like any vote in that a single person cannot affect much. The more the general public knows about this the better, which is why, IMO, it was wrong of people to pile on that thread that was naming/shaming corporate apologists. If even the gaming media is giving this stuff a pass, I feel there's little hope of Microsoft actually feeling a blowback on this.

One can hope the non-hardcore eventually catch on, but the ones that might care are probably already using gamestop anyway. :-(

If there was EVER a time where the the gaming audience/populous as a whole needed the gaming press to educate the masses, this would be it.

Please don't let this topic die gaming press...

 

[NemesisPrime]

How many of you actually buy music CDs? I am just wondering. I bet all of you do.... right?

 

[Dead Man]

I'm not alone. There are dozens of us. Dozens!

Still too many. You need to be funnier or quieter.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Funny thing is I'm sure this system will still sell great for those little kids who just use it as a Call of Duty box since there parents buy everything anyway.

Or people who look at the cons and find that the benefits of enjoying the games outweigh them.

How many of you actually buy music CDs? I am just wondering. I bet all of you do.... right?

I understand your analogy, and to a point was about to use it for some of my arguments. But the problem is that all the music I've bought on Amazon I can rip to a CD and play in any CD player. I can also log into my Amazon account and play it on any PC (this is more similar to what the Xbone does).

 

[Delusibeta]

MCV is about as reliable as using Major Nelson as a source in a story about the PlayStation 4, so reader beware.

That said, the EU probably won't stand for it.

 

[zashga]

Ugly. The system as described would completely block private sales (ie EBay, Amazon market, or direct to your friends), as well as gifting/borrowing games. The entire model is designed to extract a pound of flesh from Gamestop, which will basically translate to lower trade in value. Gamers get screwed on all sides by this arrangement.

 

[Azih]

i dont get it can i sell the license directly to microsoft or something ?
i never traded or sold a game im just curious.

I think the idea is that if you want to 'sell' a digital game to the retailer you give up permission to play the game while the guy who buys it eventually gains it. This way you maintain the fairness of the physical world where you're giving up the ability to play the game you sell.

It'd be fairer than the current Steam setup for sure and it also alleviates the, in my opinion, legitimate beef that game companies have that they don't get any direct benefit from the secondary market at all.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

One thing is for sure: sales of new games will go down. Consumers will have less buying power and they will be much more selective. In response, publishers and developers will reduce the lifespan of some games by burdening them with season passes and demanding more from already underpaid development teams.

 

[fluffydelusions]

BTW, why does MS get a cut if the game is not published by them?

 

[JB1981]

That's nice dear. Run along.

Hey I qualified the comment with my personal opinion. If you guys can't handle a contrary opinion maybe you should disconnect from the internet completely.

 

[Mashing]

Why does Microsoft get a cut of the revenue from the sale of a used game? That should go to the developer instead.

 

[MechaX]

Okay, interesting plan, I guess...

You can still trade in games to whoever MS includes in the loop. Private sales and borrowing are still out of the question, and this will completely eviscerate Amazon/Ebay/Private Sales (unless you manage to trade into Amazon or Ebay directly, assuming MS includes them in on the plan as well).

The plan says that the retailer can set the used prices as they wish, but if both MS and the Publisher are getting a cut, the retailer might have more of an incentive to keep a used price as high as possible (especially if said publisher wants to promote store exclusive DLC on a continuing basis). So basically, you might have scenarios where retailers like Gamestop pays out chump-change to customers trading in your game, but price drops probably won't be happening all that frequently (they would want to decrease the price enough to still incentive players to buy used so they can get a cut, but not low enough where the cut is too low).

 

[metalslimer]

Hey I qualified the comment with my personal opinion. If you guys can't handle a contrary opinion maybe you should disconnect from the internet completely.

But then we only play Blu Rays on our Xbox Ones =(

 

[Einbroch]

If it's a percentage cut, companies like GameFly have nothing to worry about since they aren't "selling" the game.

They activate it when they mail it to you and deactivate it when they get it back.

Loophole?

 

[epmode]

How many of you actually buy music CDs? I am just wondering. I bet all of you do.... right?

Quoi?

 

[ConfusedCat]

How many of you actually buy music CDs? I am just wondering. I bet all of you do.... right?

actually i bought Random Access Memories on CD

 

[Dead Man]

Hey I qualified the comment with my personal opinion. If you guys can't handle a contrary opinion maybe you should disconnect from the internet completely.

And I gave my opinion of singular personal opinions that think not at all about the broader issue other than how it relates to yourself.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Still too many. You need to be funnier or quieter.

I'm not trying to be funny. You don't get to dictate what the average customer wants anymore so than me. A year from now this won't be an issue. It'll be accepted.

 

[Duxxy3]

Why does Microsoft get a cut of the revenue from the sale of a used game? That should go to the developer instead.

Because it's a scam...

oops, i mean they are the ones who created the used game database.

 

[ido]

If Sony actually does this, this will be the last generation of consoles. Jim Sterling actually had a very good point *shudders*. Consoles are basically becoming shitty PCs with none of the benefits. A closed platform PC that has no access to mods and isn't upgradable and has no backwards compatability. How can anyone reasonable think this direction of the industry is a good one?

I agree. The allure of consoles has always been:

-Easy to use. Buy a game, put it in the console, and play.
-Lend your games to friends by simply handing them the disc/cartridge.
-Selling your game(s) when you are done/bored to whoever you want, however you want, for whatever price you want.
-No Hardware update required(with small exceptions like the N64, Wiimote +, etc).

And I know there is more, but that sums it up well enough.

 

[MikeE21286]

How would that even work?

If that would work it'd be weird....

It'd work the same way Amazon Fullfillment currently works. Amazon Fulfillment works in that you ship the game to Amazon and they sell it on your behalf (basically).

So in this scenario you would ship the game to Amazon (or eBay in this case) and they de-activate the title for you and then would ship it off to the buyer.

Honestly, this would probably happen if this program were implemented. It would be the only recourse/way to salvage game sales for ebay (Amazon may participate, but they have their own program in which they buy and resell used games, ebay does not obviously)

The ramifications would be that Amazon or eBay would increase the fees associated with selling used games to cover the costs of the reseller program and publisher fees.

 

[Xater]

How many of you actually buy music CDs? I am just wondering. I bet all of you do.... right?

No but digital music is cheaper than the physical equivalent. These days it's also DRM free which is hassle free for pretty much all consumers. Gives you lots of options. If you still want the physical copy you can get it and it doesn't come with any restrictions either. You see the differences to this Xbox One situation?

Why does Microsoft get a cut of the revenue from the sale of a used game? That should go to the developer instead.

Nobody should get a ut of my game.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Because it's a scam...

oops, i mean they are the ones who created the used game database.

They are really going to cash in on this if the system is a success.

 

[Dead Man]

I'm not trying to be funny. You don't get to dictate what the average customer wants anymore so than me. A year from now this won't be an issue. It'll be accepted.

You are real quality.

 

[flyinpiranha]

BTW, why does MS get a cut if the game is not published by them?

They provide the infrastructure for the publisher to receive a cut of used sales. Basically, they provide a service that was not needed.