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[Madness]

I'm rewatching the episode now. With captions on, as soon as the guy shut the door and Catelyn listened to the music, it was the Rains of Castamere playing. Catelyn always knew from the start that Walder Frey was a dangerous man. Seeing her cry for Robb to be spared, even though it's all his fault is heartbreaking.

He should have listened to her more often. Now Bran, Rickon and Arya are orphaned forever.

Poor Grey Wind too. He was crying in his pen because I bet he knew what was going to happen. I'm glad they didn't show that to us, don't know why, I couldn't take it if they showed Grey wind dying as well.

Poor baby Ned Stark too. No wonder this episode is the Rains of Castamere. Tywin and Roose and Walder just obliterated the Starks and any chance the North had. Forget all about Winter is Coming. Did they kill all of Robbs bannermen too? Meaning all the Lord's that fought with him?

Should call the music from now on: A Stark Reminder of Winter Falling or something.

Might as well cheer for the bad guys now. All the good guys get screwed over. Ned, Robb, Sansa, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, etc. All the while people like Cersei, Joffrey, Tywin, Littlefinger and others live it up.

 

[Gvaz]

lol no offense but how could anyone not. soon as the door closed I knew either robb, cat, or robb's wife would die. and when Castamere kicked in I knew shit was really going down. Very heavily telegraphed with Cersei talking about the song.
excuse to play the national version again though! which is great.

Lots of people seem to have a giggle that tv viewers as a whole just don't pay enough attention. (this goes for other tv series too)

So how does it work now for The Starks and Winterfell:

From us the viewer it now means Bran is now lord of Winterfell?

But since no one in the show is totally sure if Bran and Rickon are alive that now makes Tyrion potentially the new lord of Winterfell since he married Sansa?

Also in the show if they believe Bran and Rickon are dead then the Stark name has ended?

Oh man...

Well, people think that bran and rickon are dead right? Jon is in the north, robb is dead, arya is missing. So the last true heir to winterfell is Sansa by right. So whoever gets sansa gets winterfell, or quite literally, the entire north. Even if the house has been butchered, the Starks are beloved by the entire north.

 

[Hari Seldon]

One wonders how the Starks even got into power in the first place, and at what point the genetic ball was dropped. The Starks' sigil should be that of a mole. They're blind to what's right in front of them.

The first men were a lot more like the wilders than the current Starks.

 

[tokkun]

Rob was 16/17 in the books, jon is about the same age, sansa was 12, arya was like 9/10, joffrey is like 15? rickon was like 4? and bran was like 8 or 9 or something. Dany was like 14.

They aged everyone up in the show for obvious reasons.

Dany starts the first book at age 12. Her wedding night with Drogo occurs on her 13th birthday.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Holy freakin crap! HOLY FREAKIN CRAP. This show omg.

 

[Kave_Man]

Now I wonder what this show can do now.

They really can't shit all over the Starks anymore, the Baratheons have got their fair amount of shit thrown on them with Renly's death and Stannis losing in Blackwater. I can only assume the Lannisters are due to get something really bad happen to them soon. That's not including Jaime's hand being chopped off.

I now worry for Tyrion.

 

[Shagwell]

Dany starts the first book at age 12. Her wedding night with Drogo occurs on her 13th birthday.

Man, that makes Drogo railing her mercilessly a lot harder to take.

 

[antitrop]

yeah, but it's common knowledge they aged the characters up. One of the first thing the showrunners said when they were introducing the world to the show

Clearly for the better.

 

[big ander]

as evidenced from everywhere on the internet, anders, you're not the only show watcher, and tons of people were floored in shock

I'm still making my way thru reactions on twitter and stuff, the only people I'd talked to were my brother and a couple of his friends and they knew something was up. admittedly too small a sample size but I remain surprised that there were people who didn't think something was up when the doors closed slowly and Cat gave a suspicious glare.

 

[Amir0x]

Might as well cheer for the bad guys now. All the good guys get screwed over. Ned, Robb, Sansa, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, etc. All the while people like Cersei, Joffrey, Tywin, Littlefinger and others live it up.

Tyrion, Arya, Bran and Sansa are still alive. And so is Dany. And so is Stannis. And so is Jon. Pick and choose your poison but please stop acting like this episode killed everyone ever with a hint of good in them lol

 

[Jack Scofield]

I hate being "that guy," [mod edit: so don't]

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I knew once the door closed that something bad was going to happen, especially when the music started playing, but I just didn't want to believe it until it happened.

DAMN IT!!!

 

[Eleuin]

:'(


Feels bad man

 

[ReiGun]

What do you say to readers who are upset about the scene?

It depends on what they say. What can you say to someone who says they’ll never read your book again? People read books for different reasons. I respect that. Some read for comfort. And some of my former readers have said their life is hard, their mother is sick, their dog died, and they read fiction to escape. They don’t want to get hit in the mouth with something horrible. And you read that certain kind of fiction where the guy will always get the girl and the good guys win and it reaffirms to you that life is fair. We all want that at times. There’s a certain vicarious release to that. So I’m not dismissive of people who want that. But that’s not the kind of fiction I write, in most cases. It’s certainly not what Ice and Fire is. It tries to be more realistic about what life is. It has joy, but it also had pain and fear. I think the best fiction captures life in all its light and darkness.

So there you go. I like that the author is at least understanding of people who wouldn't want to continue after tonight, unlike some in this thread.

I'm not dropping the show, but tonight was a real gut punch and I don't blame anyone who says this isn't what they want from their entertainment.

 

[antitrop]

I hate being "that guy," but that scene was so much more powerful in the book. Remember, the entire Northern army was slaughtered at the Twins, the show makes it look like a small scuffle between 20 or so people.

Your post is the first that I've realized it wasn't a scuffle between 20 people.

 

[Brashnir]

Clearly for the better.

The book ages make sense in historical context, but it would have looked really odd on TV to modern eyes.

 

[big ander]

I hate being "that guy," but that scene was so much more powerful in the book. Remember, the entire Northern army was slaughtered at the Twins, the show makes it look like a small scuffle between 20 or so people. I wish we could have seen the enormous tents lit on fire and brought down upon the Northerners celebrating in them, but I understand the limitations of a television show.

Still, just thinking about the description in the books is chilling. The pouring rain, overflowing river, the tens of thousands of people murdered, the way Robb's men tried protecting him. It was so atmospheric in the book. But whatever, the scene worked in the show, I guess.

preview spoilers:

Spoiler

big shot of the northern tents burning in the preview, along with flags in flames. I'm guessing we'll see plenty of the carnage and we'll have to watch Arya watch it.

 

[lamaroo]

Shit I forgot about that blood curse. I don't even think watching Joffrey get his will make up for this though, I need to see Bolton and Frey suffer.

 

[demolitio]

Can I root for the wildlings or the white walkers now? Khaleesi will probably still take 3 years to get to the fight so my only hope for justice lies with Stannis and his crazy voodoo.

I knew that wedding was going to be bad as soon as it started and then seeing Bolton there basically just sealed the deal.

Arya has a shitload of people to assassinate now...

 

[man of science]

I hate being "that guy," but...

Then don't.

 

[Zeliard]

Now I wonder what this show can do now.

They really can't shit all over the Starks anymore, the Baratheons have got their fair amount of shit thrown on them with Renly's death and Stannis losing in Blackwater. I can only assume the Lannisters are due to get something really bad happen to them soon. That's not including Jaime's hand being chopped off.

I now worry for Tyrion.

The Baratheons have crazy magic lady with them, though. I don't think we know how directly relevant it was yet, but one of the people Melisandre and Stannis cursed (?) with the leeches was Robb Stark, and he's now dead. Joffrey was also cursed, as well as Balon Greyjoy. That of course begs the question.

 

[Kave_Man]

I'm still making my way thru reactions on twitter and stuff, the only people I'd talked to were my brother and a couple of his friends and they knew something was up. admittedly too small a sample size but I remain surprised that there were people who didn't think something was up when the doors closed slowly and Cat gave a suspicious glare.

Of course people knew something was up that doesn't make it less impactful.

I hate being "that guy,"

Cool, I'd advise to probably speak about it more in depth in one of the book reader threads. The majority of people in here have not read the books so wouldn't be able to discuss it in more detail with you.

 

[NervousXtian]

Robb was really a shit character anyhow... incompetent really.

 

[darkazcura]

Tyrion, Arya, Bran and Sansa are still alive. And so is Dany. And so is Stannis. And so is Jon. Pick and choose your poison but please stop acting like this episode killed everyone ever with a hint of good in them lol

Which "bad" characters have died? I think that's why people are freaking out.

I'm on the fence on whether I want to continue the series or not. I'll probably suck it up and continue, but the quality of the story has dropped a couple pegs for me. I don't reward stories for being "ballsy" and "surprising" just for the sake of it.

For the life of me (not talking about you Amir0x), but I don't understand how anyone could consider this GOOD writing? I saw someone earlier defend what happened by saying it's good writing. I don't understand how killing off only good characters for idiotic reasons (imo) and leaving the bad characters alive is a sign of good writing. Then again I usually shake my head at people who WANT the hero to die in general because it's a sign of "having balls".

It's annoying.

Kill a freakin' main Lannister already. It's getting old.

 

[VahnSSR]

Haven't watched the episode yet but I love the reactions. So glad the "bad guys" are having their way.

Robb was a cool dude but it's a shame he didn't playing the game right.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

Moral of the story, listen to ya mum

 

[Madness]

Tyrion, Arya, Bran and Sansa are still alive. And so is Dany. And so is Stannis. And so is Jon. Pick and choose your poison but please stop acting like this episode killed everyone ever with a hint of good in them lol

I never said killed. I'm saying screwed over. Oh yeah its so amazing Sansa is alive and well being threatened about rape and being forced into marriage etc. Tyrion has to worry about whether hell be killed, had his face slashed.

Fuck Stannis, I don't consider him a good guy. As for Dany, people started to like her in Season 1, Drogo dies and she basically wandered a desert starving for season 2. Now that she's on top again and people are cheering, she'll be brought down. Can't have the fan favorites winning for too long can we?

If only these morons believed in the Lord of Light shit. Reincarnation, Shadow Demons, ability to not get killed by poison. Fuck the faith of the seven or the old gods, Lord of Light is the one true god. Did Robb die because of that Stannis leech curse shit?

 

[iNvid02]

did melisandre already know the lannister plan before casting the 3 leeches into the fire?

 

[Megasoum]

Oh man...I've been hearing about a "Red Wedding" for a long time now from people who read the books but somehow I always imagined it was about the king's wedding or Sensa's so I was still surprised in the end.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I've been generally pretty lenient of book readers so far in this thread, but now I'm starting to feel like "NO BOOK READERS" needs to be in place for the season 4 thread.

Some of you guys are making this shit worse.

 

[Black-Wind]

Tyrion, Arya, Bran and Sansa are still alive. And so is Dany. And so is Stannis. And so is Jon. Pick and choose your poison but please stop acting like this episode killed everyone ever with a hint of good in them lol

Dany has always been my champion.

Everyone else is just fun to watch. Like seeing their layers show.
(And Sansa?!? Does she even count at this point? She does nothing but play a passive role in this game ... being pushed around and moved as the players please. :/ )

 

[User 100115]

Book readers. Seriously. Discuss books in the other thread. Don't say 'plenty of good stuff to come!'. Don't talk about how much better/worse/more horrible the scene was in the books. The books don't exist in this thread. Take it to the other thread.

Some of you are doing it right, a lot of you aren't.

 

[ReiGun]

Can I root for the wildlings or the white walkers now?

Yes. #TeamWhiteWalkers

 

[tokkun]

I've been generally pretty lenient of book readers so far in this thread, but now I'm starting to feel like "NO BOOK READERS" needs to be in place for the season 4 thread.

Some of you guys are making this shit worse.

Keep in mind that this moment is like E3 for the book readers. We have been waiting for this since the series was announced.

 

[Nardonicus]

Yeah, as soon as those doors closed I knew it was going to be really bad. Still though, that was absolutely shocking. Way worse than when Ned bit it.

I really love this show. One of the many reasons I love it is because you never know what is going to happen. But I do think I might be disappointed if at some point an older Arya doesn't basically morph into the grim reaper and violently slaughter a whole lot of people. Doesn't melissandra even make some remarks to her a few episodes back about darkness surrounding her? Does anyone remember the exact quote?

 

[Fuzzy]

preview spoilers:

Spoiler

big shot of the northern tents burning in the preview, along with flags in flames. I'm guessing we'll see plenty of the carnage and we'll have to watch Arya watch it.

And here's the episode 10 preview for those who haven't seen it. I've been waiting over an hour to post it just so this episode could sink in a bit first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F5twYDwA-M

Remember to spoiler tag anything that it contains.

 

[ramyeon]

If only these morons believed in the Lord of Light shit. Reincarnation, Shadow Demons, ability to not get killed by poison. Fuck the faith of the seven or the old gods, Lord of Light is the one true god. Did Robb die because of that Stannis leech curse shit?

Robb died because he fucked up and pissed off the wrong people.

 

[Psychoward]

Robb was really a shit character anyhow... incompetent really.

Yeah, he really nosedived this season, I liked him in S2 though.

 

[Nameless]

Catelyn breaking her promise to the gods(Lord of Light??) by refusing to love and accept Jon Snow as a Stark after he overcame his illness seems to have come full circle. Not only did she have to watch her first born die in front of her after begging for his life, but 'Jon Stark' would've been the perfect candidate to marry into the Freys for their support, obviously preventing this entire grizzly series of events from ever taking place.

One usurper king down. The other two actually deserve terrible deaths.Hopefully they get them.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

So there you go. I like that the author is at least understanding of people who wouldn't want to continue after tonight, unlike some in this thread.

I'm not dropping the show, but tonight was a real gut punch and I don't blame anyone who says this isn't what they want from their entertainment.

I'm also tempted to never watch again, but I'm now motivated to see the assholes responsible for this get the worst kind of payback, and for Jon Snow, Bran, Rickon, Arya, and Sansa to somehow make it out of this entire thing alive and get the payback they so rightfully deserve.

It hurts even more now that I think about the fact that Rob's wife decided to name their potential son after his father. That was really damn touching when she said that name. I immediately thought "she's getting absolutely no complaint from Rob about that name choice, because it couldn't be anymore perfect. There's no greater sign of respect for who the man is and what he's fighting for."

Rob's mother did warn him that Frey was a dangerous man, and not the type of man that should be crossed. This chapter confirms it a hundred times over.

 

[Erico]

No man is so accursed as the Kinslayer.

Robb had it coming.

 

[RyanDG]

Which "bad" characters have died? I think that's why people are freaking out.

I'm on the fence on whether I want to continue the series or not. I'll probably suck it up and continue, but the quality of the story writing has dropped a couple pegs for me.

For the life of me (not talking about you Amir0x), but I don't understand how anyone could consider this GOOD writing? I saw someone earlier defend what happened by saying it's good writing. I don't understand how killing off only good characters for idiotic reasons (imo) and leaving the bad characters alive is a sign of good writing. Then again I usually shake my head at people who WANT the hero to die in general because it's a sign of "having balls".

It's annoying.

Kill a freakin' main Lannister already. It's getting old.

There's more to the killings that occur in this episode then a writer "having balls". There are a lot of historical parallels that George RR Martin and the writers of the show are drawing from with his work, and there is a reason for these deaths. They aren't a throw-a-way just to show he can kill them off. It's been mentioned in this thread before, but if you are interested in learning the real why's behind this scene (and a few other deaths in a Game of Thrones) without really being spoiled on the series, read up a bit on the War of the Roses and the Black Dinner events that occurred. These events may serve as the historical inspiration for the events tonight (and others), but it also gives some insight into why the deaths were important for the narrative.

It is easy to write the deaths off as feeling cheap (or easy for book readers to overlook the obvious historical allusions Martin is making by claiming that he is doing it to show that anyone can die), but the narrative is better served by these deaths then without. Just a few thoughts to consider when thinking about continuing the show.

 

[Psychoward]

Catelyn breaking her promise to the gods(Lord of Light??) by refusing to love and accept Jon Snow as a Stark after he overcame his illness seems to have come full circle. Not only did she have to watch her first born die in front of her after begging for his life, but 'Jon Stark' would've been the perfect candidate to marry into the Freys for their support, obviously preventing this entire grizzly series of events from ever taking place.

One usurper king down. The other two actually deserve terrible deaths.

Who's the second one? Dany? Because Stannis is certainly not an usurper...

 

[Nameless]

Who's the second one? Dany? Because Stannis is certainly not an usurper...

Joffrey and Balon Greyjoy.

 

[Flo_Evans]

It totally doesn't even matter now, but I've been wondering what is the bedding ceremony? Does everyone sit around and watch them consummate the marriage?

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Who's the second one? Dany? Because Stannis is certainly not an usurper...

Balon Greyjoy.

 

[Eleuin]

The way catelyn just stood there and then got her throat slit... fuck

 

[neoism]

FUUUUUUUUUUCCCKKK THIS SHOW I'm DOOONE!

 

[Brashnir]

Who's the second one? Dany? Because Stannis is certainly not an usurper...

He's referring to the three names Stannis said when throwing the leeches into the fire. Robb, Joffrey, and Balon Greyjoy.

 

[Madness]

It totally doesn't even matter now, but I've been wondering what is the bedding ceremony? Does everyone sit around and watch them consummate the marriage?

Yeah. I think they carry them off put them in a room and wait outside. I wonder what the fuck Edmore is going to think/do. Frey probably wanted his Tully sperm or some shit. And where is Blackfish. God I hope he personally slits Rooses throat.