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Nintendo E3 Site Opens: E3 Direct one hour long. Teases some games.

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Sadist said:
This thread next monday

ibw4gaHSLNexqZ.gif
Click to expand...

What the hell is that from?
 
Valjean Lafitte said:
How was Monolith involved with Skyward Sword?
Click to expand...

Staff from Monolith is credited with (1 or more staff members):

1. Planning
2. Enemy Design
3. NPC Design
4. Object Design
5. Field Design
6. Effect Design
7. Cinematics Animation
8. 3D Animation
9. Technical Support

All in all, there are about 45 staff credits (not counting possible double ups) on Skyward Sword from Monolith (who have about 92 employees).

http://kyoto-report.wikidot.com/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword

In comparison, Animal Crossing: New Leaf had about 8 Monolith staff working on it.
 
Skyward Sword was a massive project, and (as far as I'm aware) Nintendo's most expensive project to date. I also think the Zelda team suffers from a lot of disorganisation and (possibly) bad management. A lot of muddled directive, massive gameplay altering changes, and so on. Twilight Princess is notorious for having a point in development where Aonuma and Miyamoto came to the realisation the team was pissing away time and money on ideas that weren't going anywhere, let alone coming together, and had to "upend the tea table". Skyward Sword strikes me as a somewhat similar situation, wanting to do big new things, wrestling with the Wii's hardware, having standard controls evolve to M+ controls and then having to integrate that into all aspects of the game.

If any one IP at Nintendo worries me, going into this generation, it's Zelda. I know they'll come through and I do love the series, but if any team at Nintendo raises concerns of muddled management and aimless design, it's that lot. Iwata has already spoken about the predictably high demand of resources when making Wii U games. No franchise under Nintendo's banner is going to take a bigger chunk out of that than Zelda. In philosophy and history, it's their biggest "production" game I'd say, and by a long shot. They cant really afford to fuck around with Zelda Wii U, in my opinion.
 
I just started playing KI:U a few weeks ago. It's a fantastic game. I understand the control complaints, but they have not hindered me as much as they apparently did others. My biggest issue with them is trying to do melee attacks, for some reason. Keeping the reticle on a close enemy, snapping up on the slide pad, and pressing L all at the same time still gives me issues.
 
EatChildren said:
Skyward Sword was a massive project, and (as far as I'm aware) Nintendo's most expensive project to date. I also think the Zelda team suffers from a lot of disorganisation and (possibly) bad management. A lot of muddled directive, massive gameplay altering changes, and so on. Twilight Princess is notorious for having a point in development where Aonuma and Miyamoto came to the realisation the team was pissing away time and money on ideas that weren't going anywhere, let alone coming together, and had to "upend the tea table". Skyward Sword strikes me as a somewhat similar situation, wanting to do big new things, wrestling with the Wii's hardware, having standard controls evolve to M+ controls and then having to integrate that into all aspects of the game.

If any one IP at Nintendo worries me, going into this generation, it's Zelda. I know they'll come through and I do love the series, but if any team at Nintendo raises concerns of muddled management and aimless design, it's that lot. Iwata has already spoken about the predictably high demand of resources when making Wii U games. No franchise under Nintendo's banner is going to take a bigger chunk out of that than Zelda. In philosophy and history, it's their biggest "production" game I'd say, and by a long shot. They cant really afford to fuck around with Zelda Wii U, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Apart from *maybe* Majora's Mask, has any 3D Zelda not been afflicted with delays, control changes, 'up-ending tea-tables' and/or all the other things you describe?

I can't think of one.
 
EatChildren said:
snip
Click to expand...

If SS suffered from bad management, then that blows my mind what they could do with good management. It's the thing to hate on SS, but I staunchly and firmly loved it. The only three things I would change would be a) make flying a more lively experience, as it felt empty, overall, b) make the sword thrust more responsive, and c) get rid of the stupid item descriptions the first time you pick up the item after loading a game. But man, I agree that I worry the most about Zelda, but that's only because I love it so much. It has so far to fall.

EDIT:
Holy crap, I'm finally a member. Go me.
 
after the divisiveness about SS's motion controls it's pretty safe to assume they'll stay a one time thing, the fact that there's no remote plus included with the system and that they are against giving the player choice (especially in Zelda games) all but confirms it.
 
StreetsAhead said:
Apart from *maybe* Majora's Mask, has any 3D Zelda not been afflicted with delays, control changes, 'up-ending tea-tables' and/or all the other things you describe?

I can't think of one.
Click to expand...

I think Nintendo has just traditionally had a very nonlinear view on developing games. They come up with gameplay concepts, and then build the game world around that, like a Katamari of ideas. It's always sounded like Miyamoto was the strong pimp-hand that ensured these things came together.

EatChildren is probably right in a sense, because as massive projects become more expensive and more time consuming, Zelda will probably need to take a more traditional approach to development. You can't up-end the tea table on a 60M dollar game half way through development, there has to be a guiding vision.
 
Box of Bunnies said:
Simple solution: give it to Lord Koizumi and his EAD Tokyo wizards.
Click to expand...

That would be good, but more than anything I think they need a bit more new blood. Whenever Nintendo talks about "Mario Team" and "Zelda Team" I worry about stagnation. I shouldn't tell them how to run their highly successful studio :P, but I'm far more fond of developers who mix their workers around. Sometimes its good to not have a dedicated team, and instead see what other creative minds can introduce to franchises they've never worked on.

StreetsAhead said:
Apart from *maybe* Majora's Mask, has any 3D Zelda not been afflicted with delays, control changes, 'up-ending tea-tables' and/or all the other things you describe?

I can't think of one.
Click to expand...

I think they've all had issues, yeah.

PogiJones said:
If SS suffered from bad management, then that blows my mind what they could do with good management. It's the thing to hate on SS, but I staunchly and firmly loved it. The only three things I would change would be a) make flying a more lively experience, as it felt empty, overall, b) make the sword thrust more responsive, and c) get rid of the stupid item descriptions the first time you pick up the item after loading a game. But man, I agree that I worry the most about Zelda, but that's only because I love it so much. It has so far to fall.
Click to expand...

I loved Skyward Sword too. Most of it anywho. But some parts I didn't.

I wasn't really questioning game design though. That's a different debate. Moreso the weight of development and resources requirements to make a game like Zelda. Wii U games are going to be more expensive, time consuming, and resource demanding than the Wii. Just as the Wii would have been over the GCN, and the GCN over the N64. Nintendo likes to float their portfolio across a wide spectrum of development costs, but Zelda is really on the highest end. If Skyward Sword cost them a fortune and was their biggest project to date, it's hard to believe Zelda Wii U won't be even more demanding.

And that's where the risk of bad management and muddled direction come into play. You end up pissing away way too much money and time that could have been better spent on other, more focused projects. So I hope they can keep a strong head for Zelda Wii U, and it doesn't end up as an over expensive time sink.
 
skull kid said:
after the divisiveness about SS's motion controls it's pretty safe to assume they'll stay a one time thing, the fact that there's no remote plus included with the system and that they are against giving the player choice (especially in Zelda games) all but confirms it.
Click to expand...

With Zelda, perhaps, but Nintendo has been all about giving the player choice

Mario Kart Wii: All Options
Brawl: All Options
Virtual Console: All Options
New Super Mario Bros U: GamePad, Wiimote, Pro Controller

And countless others
 
JoeM86 said:
With Zelda, perhaps, but Nintendo has been all about giving the player choice

Mario Kart Wii: All Options
Brawl: All Options
Virtual Console: All Options
New Super Mario Bros U: GamePad, Wiimote, Pro Controller

And countless others
Click to expand...

The difference is, while these are easily mapped to other devices, Skyward Sword's motion control dictated the game design.

It's not about giving a choice, it's about the inability to give that choice. That, and the GamePad is clearly the primary device with the Wii U. And thank god for that.
 
skull kid said:
after the divisiveness about SS's motion controls it's pretty safe to assume they'll stay a one time thing, the fact that there's no remote plus included with the system and that they are against giving the player choice (especially in Zelda games) all but confirms it.
Click to expand...

But the Wii didn't come with a Motion+, either.

And I do recall Aonuma mentioning they were considering re-using the Wiimote controls from Skyward Sword for the next Zelda. Personally I hope they do.
 
Sheroking said:
I think Nintendo has just traditionally had a very nonlinear view on developing games. They come up with gameplay concepts, and then build the game world around that, like a Katamari of ideas. It's always sounded like Miyamoto was the strong pimp-hand that ensured these things came together.
EatChildren is probably right in a sense, because as massive projects become more expensive and more time consuming, Zelda will probably need to take a more traditional approach to development. You can't up-end the tea table on a 60M dollar game half way through development, there has to be a guiding vision.
Click to expand...
it reminds me of Pixar's philosophy and how it encourages last minute changes, if it benefits the final product they will spare no expense to get there, time and money are afterthoughts (sort of). There's also the fact that tossing out a bad or unpolished Zelda game could damage a series that so far has kept its standards sky high.
 
EatChildren said:
If any one IP at Nintendo worries me, going into this generation, it's Zelda. I know they'll come through and I do love the series, but if any team at Nintendo raises concerns of muddled management and aimless design, it's that lot. Iwata has already spoken about the predictably high demand of resources when making Wii U games. No franchise under Nintendo's banner is going to take a bigger chunk out of that than Zelda. In philosophy and history, it's their biggest "production" game I'd say, and by a long shot. They cant really afford to fuck around with Zelda Wii U, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

yea i feel like their hand is forced as well. they just need a great modern HD Zelda. if they don't get to it first and wait 2 years - 3, all sorts of indies will pop up in its place and the franchises transition into HD will be dampened. it's an interesting scenario for them, i'm convinced they're going to regress into the tried & true to get it to work quickly.
 
EatChildren said:
I loved Skyward Sword too. Most of it anywho. But some parts I didn't.

I wasn't really questioning game design though. That's a different debate. Moreso the weight of development and resources requirements to make a game like Zelda. Wii U games are going to be more expensive, time consuming, and resource demanding than the Wii. Just as the Wii would have been over the GCN, and the GCN over the N64. Nintendo likes to float their portfolio across a wide spectrum of development costs, but Zelda is really on the highest end. If Skyward Sword cost them a fortune and was their biggest project to date, it's hard to believe Zelda Wii U won't be even more demanding.

And that's where the risk of bad management and muddled direction come into play. You end up pissing away way too much money and time that could have been better spent on other, more focused projects. So I hope they can keep a strong head for Zelda Wii U, and it doesn't end up as an over expensive time sink.
Click to expand...

So you feel that, regardless of efficiency of management, Zelda will end up top-notch, but if it has inefficient management, so much money will be wasted getting it to that quality level that other Nintendo projects will suffer or never come to pass? Seems like a reasonable prediction.

skull kid said:
it reminds me of Pixar's philosophy and how it encourages last minute changes, if it benefits the final product they will spare no expense to get there, time and money are afterthoughts (sort of). There's also the fact that tossing out a bad or unpolished Zelda game could damage a series that so far has kept its standards sky high.
Click to expand...
http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot
 
EatChildren said:
Skyward Sword was a massive project, and (as far as I'm aware) Nintendo's most expensive project to date. I also think the Zelda team suffers from a lot of disorganisation and (possibly) bad management. A lot of muddled directive, massive gameplay altering changes, and so on. Twilight Princess is notorious for having a point in development where Aonuma and Miyamoto came to the realisation the team was pissing away time and money on ideas that weren't going anywhere, let alone coming together, and had to "upend the tea table". Skyward Sword strikes me as a somewhat similar situation, wanting to do big new things, wrestling with the Wii's hardware, having standard controls evolve to M+ controls and then having to integrate that into all aspects of the game.

If any one IP at Nintendo worries me, going into this generation, it's Zelda. I know they'll come through and I do love the series, but if any team at Nintendo raises concerns of muddled management and aimless design, it's that lot. Iwata has already spoken about the predictably high demand of resources when making Wii U games. No franchise under Nintendo's banner is going to take a bigger chunk out of that than Zelda. In philosophy and history, it's their biggest "production" game I'd say, and by a long shot. They cant really afford to fuck around with Zelda Wii U, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the typical Miyamoto formula, though? Gameplay-focused experimentation, followed by upending the tea-table, and then a crunch toward delivering a user-friendly experience?

Sheroking said:
I think Nintendo has just traditionally had a very nonlinear view on developing games. They come up with gameplay concepts, and then build the game world around that, like a Katamari of ideas. It's always sounded like Miyamoto was the strong pimp-hand that ensured these things came together.

EatChildren is probably right in a sense, because as massive projects become more expensive and more time consuming, Zelda will probably need to take a more traditional approach to development. You can't up-end the tea table on a 60M dollar game half way through development, there has to be a guiding vision.
Click to expand...

Yup.
 
EatChildren said:
T

I loved Skyward Sword too. Most of it anywho. But some parts I didn't.

I wasn't really questioning game design though. That's a different debate. Moreso the weight of development and resources requirements to make a game like Zelda. Wii U games are going to be more expensive, time consuming, and resource demanding than the Wii. Just as the Wii would have been over the GCN, and the GCN over the N64. Nintendo likes to float their portfolio across a wide spectrum of development costs, but Zelda is really on the highest end. If Skyward Sword cost them a fortune and was their biggest project to date, it's hard to believe Zelda Wii U won't be even more demanding.

And that's where the risk of bad management and muddled direction come into play. You end up pissing away way too much money and time that could have been better spent on other, more focused projects. So I hope they can keep a strong head for Zelda Wii U, and it doesn't end up as an over expensive time sink.
Click to expand...

I think that the worst that can happen, even entering the HD world, would be wait years for a great game. Not perfect, "just" great.
So, nothing new with the franchise, to me. Btw, the mismanagment I think it's one of the key aspect of Miyamoto's work and its craftsmanship.
One day (not so distant) we'll have better managed processes at Nintendo but probably also less magic.
 
Exterminieren said:
On the day before E3 2011, he made really uncomfortably sexualised and fetishised predictions for the conference, complete with properly deviant descriptions of it all.

Got banned quicker than blinking.
Click to expand...

damn, I been a lurker on Gaf for years but musta overlooked that
 
Skyward Sword is my worst 3D Zelda. I hope the Zelda Wii U goes the Majoras Mask, Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time way.

Story oriented on Twilight Princess, E3 tech demo graphics
Sidequests, darkness and depth oriented on Majoras Mask
and the non linearity, gameplay oriented on Ocarina of Time.

Wind Waker was a good Zelda too, I would like to see the great exploration back.

From Skyward Sword I would only like to see the Item upgrade system back.

My perfect Zelda.
 
JoeM86 said:
With Zelda, perhaps, but Nintendo has been all about giving the player choice
Mario Kart Wii: All Options
Brawl: All Options
Virtual Console: All Options
New Super Mario Bros U: GamePad, Wiimote, Pro Controller
And countless others
Click to expand...
I haven't played a mario kart or a nsmb since double dash and the ds one, so I wouldn't know about those. As far as the rest of the ones you mentioned:
Brawl: no option to turn off tripping was pure nonesense and a huge deal for many (or few, looking at the sales)
Virtual Console: europeans still get 50 Hz games (apparently f-zero was an exception, super metroid confirmed it), an alternative to download the american, superior version, would be much welcome
In any case I was referring mostly to the Zelda series and specifically SS where you aren't even given the choice to skip text for an item you already acquired (amongst many other things, as you know), but there are a lot of other examples that come to mind, and as you suggested more counter-points too.

Twiforce said:
But the Wii didn't come with a Motion+, either.
And I do recall Aonuma mentioning they were considering re-using the Wiimote controls from Skyward Sword for the next Zelda. Personally I hope they do.
Click to expand...
Consider this, the reception to motion controls was divisive, I'm not sure about an estimate ratio since the ones who hated it/failed to learn it love to re-iterate their position any chance they get (plus forums hardly offer a safe proof metric for assessing this), but I feel that maybe 40% or 50% would prefer standard controls. To that number, add the people that don't have a motion + and don't want to spend more than 60 $ on a bundle; I believe SS lost quite a bit of sales that way. Since the game is likely to be, as suggested above, one of if not the most expensive development enterprise Nintendo has ever started, it would not make sense to take that risk since they can play it safe with traditional gamepad controls.
It's an HD Zelda an people's expectations will be brutal, there's way too much at stake already without badgering the motion control impaired. Of course the ideal solution would be to include remote + support as well, but past history taught me it isn't likely to happen.

PogiJones said:
http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot
Click to expand...
I don't get it..
 
I am currently on holiday but I have wi-fi in my hotel lobby. Could someone please do me the biggest favour and PM me the GMT times of all the big E3 streams so I can add them to my calendar?

Thank you!
 
BY2K said:
I hate fan-made bundles.

551299_460684040677197_269786544_n.jpg


You just know the real one (if it happens) won't be nearly as good.
Click to expand...

The only thing that makes that look fan made is the use of concept art on the game screen. If they held off until real screens were shown and used that, then this would be really believable. I love the box art and the accents. This looks great!
 
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