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[Deleted member 752119]

If there's someway to still trade/sell games myself that doesn't involve some big fee that makes it harder to do so, then I wouldn't care much about DRM.

I'd like not having to have the disc in. I'd even more like to be able to buy and download digital games and still have someway to sell/trade it when I'm done with it to recoup some of the costs. More environmentally friendly, less clutter in the condo etc.

I'm just skeptical that any of that will be true. If they tag on some license transfer/used game activation fee it will make it harder to sell/trade games as it ends up not being worth it vs. just buying new/waiting for sales/price drops etc.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Until they damage the disc? It is stolen or missing?

3 rules of life:

Don't talk politics, religion or lend people shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sHcFlFmJ60

 

[BigDug13]

So now we have people defending piracy? Nice.

I'm not defending piracy, I'm saying you can't set fire to all your customers to smoke out a few pirates. That's what heavy DRM does. It only serves to screw your loyal customers.

It's like saying drugs are bad so police should kick down everyone's door and just search all houses for illegal drugs. You shouldn't take things to such extremes, and that's what the XBone is full of.

 

[DoomGyver]

"We think there are a lot of advantages of having your content assigned to you digitally

He said further details would be shared at a later point.

 

[DopeyFish]

I'm not defending piracy, I'm saying you can't set fire to all your customers to smoke out a few pirates. That's what heavy DRM does. It only serves to screw your loyal customers.

It's like saying drugs are bad so police should kick down everyone's door and just search all houses for illegal drugs. You shouldn't take things to such extremes, and that's what the XBone is full of.

so why are the loyal xbox customers not really giving a shit about any of this?

oh... maybe it's because all these things are being super overblown? sure seems like it, to me.

 

[EternalTruth]

Can we please get a list of advantages to consumers, I can't think of any...

 

[Stone Ocean]

How is that not piracy?

So now we have people defending piracy? Nice.

 

[Shosai]

Wait. Why do they deserve money from used games? They sold the game new. Someone finished it, or didn't like it, or whatever, and sold it.

Why do they deserve some or any of the money from this sale?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Used games don't reproduce. There can't be more used games than new games sold. Just because people return or trade back in the uses game doesn't entitle MS, the publisher or the developer to anything at that point.

I'm perfectly willing to hear why they deserve money from a second hand sale. And please spare me the "you don't own the license."

I honestly don't think this is a real post but in the event that it is, I would love to hear the answer.

I assume you don't want to hear the answer as much as you claim, because you've already tossed it. Publishers are standing by the argument of their EULA, that the consumer doesn't hold ownership of the physical code on the disk, or that they're only selling licenses to play the games and they retain the right revoke said licenses. It's going to take one person to bring a game company to court before we can say what side the law favors. I hope they make a ruling on that matter sooner rather than later.

If it's any consolation, the US courts have already backed a consumers right to modify their digital products for personal use.

 

[JDSN]

Can we please get a list of advantages to consumers, I can't think of any...

HA! Dopey would explain who is game sharing piracy before that happens.

 

[Monocle]

Aww yeah, it hurts so good. Punish us, Microsoft. Punish us like we've been very very naughty!

 

[methane47]

so why are the loyal xbox customers not really giving a shit about any of this?

oh... maybe it's because all these things are being super overblown? sure seems like it, to me.

Because they gloss over bad news?

I have friends and colleagues that when i tell them about some of the stuff their answer is
"NO WAY! Microsoft wouldn't do that."

 

[_Ryo_]

I don't think you can really compare Xbox One's supposed DRM to Steam as I have 2 desktops that are completely offline, all the time and a laptop. Steam is on all of them and if I wanted I could play all 3 at once, something I highly doubt the Xbox One would allow.

 

[SpaceNun]

It's shit like this that makes me want to never ever buy another of their products. Their whole company is fucking sleazy.

 

[Raist]

Until they damage the disc? It is stolen or missing?

3 rules of life:

Don't talk politics, religion or lend people shit.

I think the thing you're missing is that MS's DRM policy will prevent people who want to lend/borrow stuff from doing it.

NOT implementing such policy doesn't force you to lend/borrow your stuff.

 

[jblank83]

Fixed

Ching Ching

 

[DopeyFish]

Because the gloss over bad news?

I have friends and colleagues that when i tell them about some of the stuff their answer is
"NO WAY! Microsoft wouldn't do that."

funny, i've told about 20 people now starting with the "negatives" and not portraying any positives...

"that doesn't sound bad at all, i will be buying first day" was a very common theme

and these are casual, hardcore and parents of kids saying this.

I think the thing you're missing is that MS's DRM policy will prevent people who want to lend/borrow stuff from doing it.

NOT implementing such policy doesn't force you to lend/borrow your stuff.

i don't care for people who want to lend/borrow

 

[SpaceNun]

lol
"There are lots of advantages to DRM!"

*crickets*....

"Well, we'll go into the details at a later time"

Fucking lord. Well, uh, shit the bed much Microsoft?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Lets hear these advantages at e3 then. Should be easy if theres so many of them. Don't want to hear any more excuses after e3. Put up or shut up.

 

[Warm Machine]

I don't think you can really compare Xbox One's supposed DRM to Steam as I have 2 desktops that are completely offline, all the time and a laptop. Steam is on all of them and if I wanted I could play all 3 at once, something I highly doubt the Xbox One would allow.

Right now I could probably have my wife with her GT play my copy of Limbo on my home Xbox and I could be playing another download of that same purchased copy on my work 360 with my GT. With both of us online.

Lets see how much MS changes up the DRM and licensing on the One in comparison to the 360.

 

[Trogdor1123]

i don't sell games or buy used games.
i don't borrow or lend games.
i am never offline. ever.

so where's the advantages?

I wasnt aware the advantages of an entire community were only decide be a single individual.

What I am saying is that, and its quite clear here and around judging from the general comments, that while it may not be an advantage to you it is to the vast majority of gamers and the community which on a whole far out weighs the one off advantages of a single person willing to give up there consumer rights for... something that hasnt really be stated.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

funny, i've told about 20 people now starting with the "negatives" and not portraying any positives...

"that doesn't sound bad at all, i will be buying first day" was a very common theme

and these are casual, hardcore and parents of kids saying this.



i don't care for people who want to lend/borrow

Think there are more than 20 people in this thread that think it does sound bad?

 

[Cizard]

because you said copying on to a friends system to let them play while going to your house to play would be acceptable, no?

also: why should offline gamers be compromising my online games?

No, I said it should be possible to share games across multiple consoles. That second consoles can also be a second console in the same household/family for example. That this also makes game sharing with friends possible doesn't mean it's the same thing as piracy. If left without limits it'll surely turn into piracy but again, there are perfectly good systems in place that make this impossible without phoning home.

 

[Eusis]

From a purely technical POV surely physical media is more effective way of transmitting what will be 10GB+ files to a demographic with Internet caps and limited speed?

There then raises the question of how good of an idea it is to go with a heavily online dependent console with areas that have poor internet. Maybe the internet's just SLOW there but it's otherwise reliable, but this leaves me to think it just looks worse and worse of an idea.

so why are the loyal xbox customers not really giving a shit about any of this?

oh... maybe it's because all these things are being super overblown? sure seems like it, to me.

Or you answered it right there: loyal Xbox fans. They're innately going to be more willing to overlook issues and ideally it's a mentality best avoided when it comes to corporations.

 

[Karsticles]

funny, i've told about 20 people now starting with the "negatives" and not portraying any positives...

"that doesn't sound bad at all, i will be buying first day" was a very common theme

and these are casual, hardcore and parents of kids saying this.

It's great that you found a community of people who think exactly like you, but I don't think your experience is typical. Everyone I tell about the XBone is really turned off from it.

 

[DopeyFish]

No, I said it should be possible to share games across multiple consoles. That second consoles can also be a second console in the same household/family for example. That this also makes game sharing with friends possible doesn't mean it's the same thing as piracy. If left without limits it'll surely turn into piracy but again, there are perfectly good systems in place that make this impossible without phoning home.

It is possible on the same household. Just not at the same time... just like a disc.

Think there are more than 20 people in this thread that think it does sound bad?

I don't care what Sony fans think, either.

Or you answered it right there: loyal Xbox fans. They're innately going to be more willing to overlook issues and ideally it's a mentality best avoided when it comes to corporations.

Apparently "loyal xbox fan" also means "someone who isn't grasping for straws"

It's great that you found a community of people who think exactly like you, but I don't think your experience is typical. Everyone I tell about the XBone is really turned off from it.

They don't think like me, at all. They just aren't out for blood.

 

[Raist]

i don't care for people who want to lend/borrow

So why do you try to warn them that their stuff might be broken/scratch/never given back? You should let them go for it!

 

[demolitio]

So now we have people defending piracy? Nice.

I would say, "Now we have people making assumptions and broad generalizations while purposely trying to twist people's words to somehow fit their argument when it's not what they said at" but that's been happening on here for a while...

The irony when talking about issues being overblown and saying others are grasping for straws.

If it doesn't bother you, that's fine, but don't think everyone is going to "gloss over" these issues and we can all give anecdotal evidence since that seems to be a key similarity on both sides. I own every console this gen and might do the same way down the line of this gen, but no one has to settle their opinions just because it doesn't bother you.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

I don't care what Sony fans think, either.

Ah, you must be one of those people who think we are all loyal to one company and only one company. Would it help if I said that I am looking forward to Sunday for Animal Crossing?

 

[Amir0x]

I love how Microsoft is now literally in a position where they have to defend the virtual equivalent of someone twisting your dick violently and digging their nails through the skin of your penis until you gush blood and saying "see, there are a lot of advantages to this... if you're into this sort of thing."

I would say, "Now we have people making assumptions and broad generalizations while purposely trying to twist people's words to somehow fit their argument when it's not what they said at" but that's been happening on here for a while...

You don't have to justify this; DopeyFish is one of the old school, OG Xbox fanatics from way back in the neoGAF dawn days. He's just trying to find a new angle to deflect the arguments tearing down the Xbox One's horrific anti-consumer measures.

 

[Oersted]

Can we please stop mixing up words? DRM mechanics exist to prevent copyright infringement.Preventing the possibility of selling used copies is not supported by copyright.

They are two different things and I hate it that companies made us succesfully believe, that they are not.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I don't care what Sony fans think, either.

If similar DRM is announced for the PS4, I'm going PC

I'm well aware 1st party sony games likely won't have it but still

I certainly lean towards Playstation but own a 360 and PS3 as well as a moderate gaming pc

I like to own my games

If I am just buying licenses to play a game I'll make a HTPC and be done with it

Exclusives be damned

 

[NullPointer]

also: why should offline gamers be compromising my online games?

Why should online gamers be compromising my offline games?

 

[Akai__]

I still can't believe, that DRM is a thing in 2013.


I'm wondering, what those advantages are...

 

[DopeyFish]

You don't have to justify this; DopeyFish is one of the old school, OG Xbox fanatics from way back in the neoGAF dawn days. He's just trying to find a new angle to deflect the arguments tearing down the Xbox One's horrific anti-consumer measures.

But I'm a PC gamer who happens to own an Xbox?

Why should online gamers be compromising my offline games?

Offline is the past, I will welcome you to the future when you are ready.

You conducted some kind of census amongst 20 of your friends, who, when faced with all the negative features of the xbox one, said "thats cool, gunna buy one soon"

Do you seriously think anyone with half a brain is swallowing this?

Trust me, after all the negative reactions... I was actually quite surprised how different the average gamer was reacting.

 

[spirity]

funny, i've told about 20 people now starting with the "negatives" and not portraying any positives...

"that doesn't sound bad at all, i will be buying first day" was a very common theme

and these are casual, hardcore and parents of kids saying this.

You handily conducted some kind of census in your free time amongst 20 of your friends, who, when faced with all the negative features of the xbox one, said "thats cool, gunna buy one soon"

Do you seriously think anyone with half a brain is swallowing this?

 

[NullPointer]

They don't think like me, at all. They just aren't out for blood.

Or are they?

Offline is the past, I will welcome you to the future when you are ready.

I'll enjoy playing console games when Xbox Live is down for maintenance, the cloud suffers an outage, your internet provider has a hiccup, or your network hardware goes on the fritz.

The future is now.

 

[ThisWreckage]

"There are a lot of advantages. We won't talk about them and we've canceled our post E3 press roundtable. So take our word for it even though we completely faked our OS demonstration and have offered nothing but conflicting information since our unveil. See you at E3!"

 

[DopeyFish]

Or are they?

http://i.minus.com/iJSbHTepJi7uf.gif[/QUOTE]

they never do mention if it was kool-aid in the kool-aid man

 

[Trogdor1123]

Offline is the past, I will welcome you to the future when you are ready.

And for the games and modes that literally gain nothing from being "online", what good does it do other than add another pointless hoop to jump through that limits the players options an potentially removes the players ability to play?

 

[Warm Machine]

If similar DRM is announced for the PS4, I'm going PC

I'm well aware 1st party sony games likely won't have it but still

I certainly lean towards Playstation but own a 360 and PS3 as well as a moderate gaming pc

I like to own my games

If I am just buying licenses to play a game I'll make a HTPC and be done with it

Exclusives be damned

Depends if they allow you to have an instantly available library of games you have bought via disc. If they choose not to do this they could easily operate by the status quo we all currently enjoy. If they think this is a feature people will want then it is going to be constrained in a few different ways.

Personally, I think they should go with the status quo but aggressively guide their customers toward DD and the publishers away from physical. Let DD purchasing be the thing that feels like an advantage because of the instant library and unlimited downloads of purchased content.

 

[Trogdor1123]

they never do mention if it was kool-aid in the kool-aid man

Totally off topic but I watched an episode of "You Gotta Eat Here" the other day and the one place had complimentary Kool-Aid with their food... lights out awesome flash backs of my youth.

 

[Yagharek]

Why should online gamers be compromising my offline games?

Precisely

 

[DopeyFish]

And for the games and modes that literally gain nothing from being "online", what good does it do other than add another pointless hoop to jump through that limits the players options an potentially removes the players ability to play?

There is always something to gain.

And every time I press the power button and my system logs me into Xbox live I don't sit there and think "look at the hoops I'm jumping through!"

Totally off topic but I watched an episode of "You Gotta Eat Here" the other day and the one place had complimentary Kool-Aid with their food... lights out awesome flash backs of my youth.

I like to eat the contents of kool-aid packets, I went there

 

[puebla]

Ah, you must be one of those people who think we are all loyal to one company and only one company. Would it help if I said that I am looking forward to Sunday for Animal Crossing?

gaf is like 90% fanyboys, the last couple of weeks, the sony fans have become unbearable. u don't agree?

 

[NullPointer]

And every time I press the power button and my system logs me into Xbox live I don't sit there and think "look at the hoops I'm jumping through!"

Why even hit the power button? Always powered on is better.

Never compromise DopeyFish.

 

[DopeyFish]

Why even hit the power button? Always powered on is better.

Never compromise DopeyFish.

But then its compromising my power bill, can't have that

 

[Eusis]

Apparently "loyal xbox fan" also means "someone who isn't grasping for straws"

Loyal's a loaded word though, if you're using that it really does imply people who are favorable to something to the point they'll stand by through thick and thin, at the least someone who IS biased in their favor. Not the best source of who to ask if something was actually a problem at any rate.

Offline is the past, I will welcome you to the future when you are ready.

I feel like we're not actually as advanced collectively as it may seem for where we are, and at any rate arbitrary requirements will always be just that: arbitrary requirements. If a game doesn't use online beyond ownership verification then it shouldn't be requiring me to be online all the damn time.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Personally, I think they should go with the status quo but aggressively guide their customers toward DD and the publishers away from physical. Let DD purchasing be the thing that feels like an advantage because of the instant library and unlimited downloads of purchased content.

I actually am of a similar mind on it for the most part

I think a large problem is the same pricing of digital copies of games via PSN and Live compared to the retail copies

Sure some digital copies go on sale and all that

But at launch I have no desire to buy Ni No Kuni digitally for the same price I can get it at retail

It makes no sense to me

Further more I simply will not pay $60 for a digital copy of any game

If they lowered the cost of digital games I'm sure they would still profit and eliminate a lot of the issues in my mind

 

[Jack_AG]

"There are a lot of advantages to DRM!"

...















...

"Trust us!"

 

[flyinpiranha]

If similar DRM is announced for the PS4, I'm going PC

I'm well aware 1st party sony games likely won't have it but still

I certainly lean towards Playstation but own a 360 and PS3 as well as a moderate gaming pc

I like to own my games

If I am just buying licenses to play a game I'll make a HTPC and be done with it

Exclusives be damned

Similar DRM is already widely accepted on the PC. Although you can play offline. But no sharing, no selling, no trading, no lending, no borrowing and you don't have any disks outside of the ones you burn yourself for many of the games you buy 'on the cheap'.

I'm not defending MS, I hate the decisions they are making ... but going PC just seems odd if your'e against the tightening of the leash on your property. If anything it would be "Go Wii U".

I think the reason people are happy on the PC is because we 'trust' Steam to do right and the people don't expect the same from MS. I don't.

I honestly can't see myself buying a X1 at this point. It has some of my favorite franchises but seems incredibly limited compared to (what we know) of the PS4. Hardware, software, it's all very limited in comparison. Even with marketing, I'm not sure how they can get past the fact that the most played franchises will be on both systems (Ubisoft, Activision, EA). They burnt a lot of Halo fans and if Forza doesn't support the wheels they'll burn a share of that bunch too.

Uphill battle for my dollars. Unless Sony drastically changes their tune, it's PS4 day one and I'll let the X1 play out for a few months before I decide.